China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

lenny

Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.

Hospitalisations up more than 20% in Britain also. Vast majority of those still unvaccinated.

theskull1

Does anyone want to drill down and ask what percentage of those in hospital 'with' Covid are in hospital because of them having Covid. It kind of matters
It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

armaghniac

Quote from: theskull1 on March 08, 2022, 09:27:38 PM
Does anyone want to drill down and ask what percentage of those in hospital 'with' Covid are in hospital because of them having Covid. It kind of matters

No doubt some of them are not primarily there because of Covid. However, it complicates treatment and still leaves the hospital under pressure in any case.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Blowitupref

Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.
Reckless and premature? it was in the NPHET letters to government once restrictions was lifted to expect a rise in hospital numbers the first week or so before things settle down again, and the current hospital numbers includes outbreaks within than just all admissions. ICU figures remains stable this week compared to last.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

trueblue1234

Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Last Man

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Are you seriously trying to suggest the opposite when the problem is getting worse? What's your answer, more drugs??

trueblue1234

Quote from: Last Man on March 09, 2022, 05:29:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Are you seriously trying to suggest the opposite when the problem is getting worse? What's your answer, more drugs??

Here's an excellent journal on benefits of both drugs and dietary control as medical interventions for diabetes.

https://www.therapeutics.scot.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Strategy-Diabetes-Quality-Prescribing-for-Diabetes-2018.pdf


To claim "the drugs don't work" doesn't wash for me. Is it required for every patient? Not necessarily but the impact of some of the prescribed medication has changed peoples lives. I know this personally.
Check out the diabetes UK website as well if you want more information on the successes of the likes of insulin, metformin, surgery procedures that help diabetes. These are all required if diet changes alone don't have the required effect.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

theskull1

QuoteIn a famous 1969 tobacco industry memo, one executive wrote: Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the "body of fact" that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy. Within the business we recognize that a controversy exists.

When perverse incentives exist, we have to keep an open mind. In how many areas are the masses getting played for profit.
It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

armaghniac

Who says vaccines don;t work. NZ and HK loads of cases, NZ feck all deaths, unlike HK.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2022, 01:58:01 AM
Who says vaccines don;t work. NZ and HK loads of cases, NZ feck all deaths, unlike HK.


China is not on top of the latest variant.
The experience in Europe/US was mitigated by vaccination but the Chinese vaccines are shite.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

Micheál Martin tests positive for Covid on his way into the White House. That kiboshes the Paddy's day itinerary. It is also a bit embarrassing as he should have tested himself at the embassy or wherever.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/1286929-taoiseach-covid-washington/
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

lenny

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ivermectin-didnt-reduce-covid-19-hospitalizations-in-largest-trial-to-date-11647601200

Another embarrassment for the conspiracy theorists who said big pharma was preventing us from accessing a cheap "cure". No surprise to most people that a horse dewormer isn't much use in fighting covid.

Wildweasel74

I say the variant in New Zealand now been the latest variant and not the more potent original, but the vaccines will have had a big say in death reduction.

Itchy

Anyone else seeing people catching covid again, sometimes within a month of previously having it. Its rampant where I am.

Gmac

Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.