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Would Tyrone be as well to get rid of the deadwood? McGeary, Burns, Myler, Morgan etc and just blood a load of young lads, even if it means Div 2 or 3 for a few years? Are we going to win anything with these lads in all seriousness?

Some of the stuff posted on here is mind boggling.  Those 4 players mentioned are all on the squad/team on merit - what 4 young players exactly should we bring in to replace them?

When you think back, those two frees that's mcquillan brought forward made the difference in the end. Two very difficult kicks were made into certainties. Love to know what caused them to be brought in.

I'd also agree with the point re Liam Rafferty. He's almost too good a footballer to be stuck in corner back.   

Would no one like to see Rory Brennan played at midfield? Not sure whether it's him or directions from the sideline but I think he has the ability to offer far more attacking wise to the team than he does.
Anytime he gets the ball he always seems a bit short on confidence with it or something but he's a quality player and has great feet when he actually does decide to shoot.

Honestly have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

First thing I'd like to ask is can someone provide the evidence showing harte's huge salary being paid by Tyrone gaa? Harte is not paid a salary by Tyrone.

Secondly, for those saying he has to go, what are your expectations over the next 5 years? Is it that we actually win 1 or 2 all Ireland's or is it that you're just fed up and want a change for change sake?

Over the next 5 years, the new manager to IMPROVE on what we have achieved over the past 5 years (excluding 2020) would have to at a MINIMUM: retain Division 1 status every year, win 3 ulster titles, reach the AI Semi Final EVERY year, get to AT LEAST 2 AI finals and WIN at least 1 AI title.

Now to be clear, I'm not saying that the above isn't achievable and who knows maybe it is the right time for a change but the way Harte's name gets dragged about on this forum is a disgrace. Reading some of the comments on here you'd think Tyrone's summers had ended in June for the past 10 years. When Harte goes it might then be appreciated how good a job he has done to keep Tyrone continually operating at the top level.

I've read some other managers names thrown about here as well such as McGleenan etc. Like on what basis are some of these names getting mentioned? I understand the Logan and Canavan shouts as they have done it with the U21s and know a lot of these players. Also don't mind the Malachy O'rourke shout but then again did Malachy ever get the better of Harte when it really counted? Harte came out on top in both 2015 and 2018 when it really really counted.

As I've said before, it might well be the time for a change but I wouldn't necessarily be banking on it resulting in a positive outcome. Also have to consider that since Tyrone last won Sam, we've been living through a spell involving a team which has been touted as one of the best of all time resulting in only Kerry (x2) Cork (x1) and Donegal (x1) winning the big prize outside of Dublin. And to be frank about it, I'm not sure since 2008, we have had a squad of players that has been really good enough to get it done at the very very highest level.

For those calling for a change of management - if new management was put in place for the start of 2020, what would the expectations be over a 5 year period?

Based on the discontent at the efforts and results of our current manager, I would assume this to be:
1) At least 3 Ulster titles;
2) 2 All Ireland Final appearances with a semi final appearance as a bare minimum each year;
3) At least 1 All Ireland title.

Anything less would have to be deemed not good enough based on current standards.

Do those wanting new management genuinely believe that Tyrone will undoubtedly achieve the above with a new manager? Or is it a case of wanting new management to "see what happens"?

A change of management has to happen at some point so why not now. If we were to change manager I would expect within first 3 years to retain div 1 status and win 1 ulster. Not to unrealistic is it.

I believe a lot of people wouldn't mind getting knocked out for first few years as long as they could see tyrone building on it and getting better each year. That is not the case with her current set up. Same faults year after year and only for easier draws in last 2 years we would have been knocked out earlier.

Donegal and kerry are getting better each year and will be a massive force. You cant say the same for tyrone.

But if all we did in the next 3 years was win 1 ulster and retain division 1 status, do you honestly believe that the knives wouldn't be out for the new management team?  Consistent semi-finals (with a final appearance as well), Division 1 football and an Ulster title now and again have been deemed no longer good enough.

It appears that unless we get to the All Ireland Final every year, the management have a lot to answer for. 

We always hear about the likes of Donegal improving and being a force etc. Donegal haven't went further than Tyrone since 2014.  They have failed to get out of the super 8's the last 2 seasons. 

I think we have definitely improved since 2015.  Its ok saying we haven't beaten Dublin, Kerry or Mayo in a long time but the Dublin and Mayo sides of this decade are arguably two of the best sides the game has ever seen.

For those calling for a change of management - if new management was put in place for the start of 2020, what would the expectations be over a 5 year period?

Based on the discontent at the efforts and results of our current manager, I would assume this to be:
1) At least 3 Ulster titles;
2) 2 All Ireland Final appearances with a semi final appearance as a bare minimum each year;
3) At least 1 All Ireland title.

Anything less would have to be deemed not good enough based on current standards.

Do those wanting new management genuinely believe that Tyrone will undoubtedly achieve the above with a new manager? Or is it a case of wanting new management to "see what happens"?

Pretty frustrating defeat yesterday to be honest.  Had the feel of the Mayo QF defeat in 2016 - a game that was certainly there for the taking.  I don't think you can say the game was lost on the line.  Tactics were spot on in the first half and provided the platform to gain a 4 point lead.  You can argue it should have been more but I'll take a 4 point half time lead against Kerry any day. 

The goal was ultimately the huge turning point in the game.  What should have a been a score for us, turns into 3 for them and is a 4 point instant swing.  It's hard to legislate on the line for a terrible giveaway like that occurring.

Definitely don't think Deegan did us any favours.  Kerry got at least two ridiculous frees at the start of the second half to give them a foothold and there seemed to be a couple of strange free out decisions midway through the second half.  He also threw the ball up after the sludden booking incident where tyrone had possession inside the kerry half.  You can say its not about the referee but these points make a massive difference in a game.  Its very small margins, if Tyrone were given the same handy frees and the lead extends to 6 points, its probably done.

Feels though we are just missing that bit of real star star quality to get over the line.  McShane was great yesterday but we can't afford him to miss that free.  We also probably need him to be finishing off that goal chance.

What tactical changes specifically would others have made during the 2nd half that would have got us over the line?

Couldn't believe the lack of a mention of the wind during the analysis on League Sunday last night.  They were saying that Roscommon were very "shot shy" during the 2nd half and about how they let Tyrone back into the game in the 2nd half however didn't once mention the gale which was the single biggest deciding factor in the game!

Take last years semi-final out of it and we haven't been overly far away from the Dubs over the past 4/5 years. 

Had them beat in the league last year only for a dubious free at the end and probably should have beaten them this year only for a terrible mistake for their goal and our 13 wides to their 1.
In the super 8 game, if we score that free kick to put 1 in it, I think we would almost certainly have gotten a chance to level seeing how much pressure we were putting on the Dublin kickout.  People say Dublin had the game won and were playing in 2nd gear but they were definitely rattled in the last 10.

There's a lot of 'ifs' in the above but we have been putting ourselves into positions to challenge.   

Granted we will need to be more clinical than we have ever been but I would give us a better chance than the bookies currently are at nearly 6/1.

[I don't think we can underestimate how bad a place Tyrone are in at the minute.]

monaghan fully merited the win looked a lot leaner than a top heavy tyrone. they are  also quicker in their thought processes and decision making that comes from good coaching and an excellent backroom. tyrone lost out because of their overall defensive gameplan. it depends on one thing being in front at all times the goal before halftime was equivalent to o callaghans  game over. game over on the sideline that is not with the players. harte has constantly backed his strategy even in the light of such a pyschologically damaging defeat last august. to finish the game in such dissaray backs the notion that he will continue to do what he wants despite the criticism and tactical naievity. the centre of our defence remains porous mcnamee burns wont cut it against top players and cavnagh never fit to sweep and hes to slow, 32 legs are gone for that job ,he might be able to horse about in the middle and school mcclure. stubborness over the groundswell opinion that the defensive gamepan no longer cuts it just reinforces the idea that the old man is no longer relevant at the tactical top table. conservatism and age go hand in hand in politics life and football. hard to watch, need for some pride to be reinstored in a respected football jersey. i think the players have had enough.

It will only be the players who can get rid of him at this stage. The arrogance shown by the Tyrone county board regarding Harte proves their is no point looking at them to do something.

The players won't say a word, they are all in a controlled environment when selected to represent our county. The RTE ban it takes you to leave the panel before you can give an interview. Cavanagh, Ricey, McGuigan and Jordan all expressed their freedoms after leaving the panel. Cavanagh is only now able to voice issues about style and a rigid structure. This would suggest that he wasn't able to question Mickey. He has 2 nodding dogs in Devlin and O'Neill in beside him. The prayers before games is another example how Mickey rules the roost. I don't know of any club that does this.

IL say one thing, and this has been proven in history the world over getting rid of a dictator has been always been a messy affair. I don't think we can underestimate how bad a place Tyrone are in at the minute.

God help the majority of other counties in Ireland if Tyrone are considered to be in a terrible place 

By some of the chat on here you would think Tyrone are floating around the bottom of division 3 with first round exits from the championship for the last 10 years....
We still have 3 games left in the league to consolidate our Division 1 status...comment about relegation etc once the league is over.
We are going for 3 ulster titles in a row (something no tyrone team has ever achieved);
We have got to the semi-finals 3 of the past 5 years.

Yes it could be better if we were able to reach all ireland finals again and maybe win them but in case people weren't aware, they're not easy to come by.
Things could be a lot, lot worse in Tyrone.

Doesnt matter what our approach is, we're still nowhere near potent or clinical enough up front! When we do get the chances we don't put them away often enough!

yes bgal10, but for all their defensiveness, donegal used the kick pass very well. remember karl laceys pass into murphy for the goal in 2012 final? to be honest weve just become a piss poor imitation of that donegal team. mickey harte is no mc guiness.

A good ball yes but Murphy still had to rise and catch above the defender and then turn and fire it to the roof of the net....if we put that ball into our forward line, i really don't see the same outcome.

whilst i agree that cillian o connor and andy moran are top forwards, how would they fair if they were dropped into the tyrone team? my guess is that they are top forwards because they get the right ball kicked into them and they do the rest. that in itself breeds confidence in a forward.

they'd be dropped back into their own half if they were with Tyrone

Elite players make it happen regardless of the system. Paddy mcbrearty, colm McFadden and Michael Murphy were all able to shine as brilliant forwards whilst playing for Donegal under Jim McGuinness. A team that many people say were one of the most defensive of all time.

I think colm McFadden even finished as top scorer in the championship in that period.

Standard over the top negativity from tyrone fans as usual. Sunday was a poor performance but it happens. Fact of the matter is, we are probably the 4th or 5th best team in the country and are going for 3 ulster titles in a row (something which no tyrone team has ever achieved before).
We got beaten by a superior Dublin team in the All Ireland semi-final last year (a team that some say is the best ever). Before that game, everyone was raving about Tyrone's counter attacking play.  People can keep harping on about the negative football and lack of free flowing forward play. The basic fact is, we don't have those elite inside forwards that Dublin, Mayo and Kerry possess. We don't have a Cillian O'Connor, a Paul Geaney or any 1 of the numerous Dublin forwards. Do people think if we still had Stephen O'Neill, Peter Canavan, Owen Mulligan all available that we would still be playing the same system we do now? You have to play to your strengths.
Also, the idea of Tyrone having this unwatchable system of football is something that has been originated by the media and jumped on by the majority of the public. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story as they say.
People can say that the forwards aren't getting a chance to shine...personally I think this is nonsense. The elite players will always find a way to score.
Do the people on here seriously think that if Mickey had stepped aside, we would have beaten Dublin last year? Or if he stepped aside now, we would go one better than last year and win Sam? 3 semi finals in the last 5 years with 2 ulster titles is probably about right for the current group of players, considering the presence of the current Dublin team and a Mayo team who aren't far behind.
We are what we are and that is a very good team who are probably a couple of elite forwards away from properly challenging the top 3.

Who in the name of God are these elite forwards that Mayo have ??

This is the latest drivel being pedalled on this thread. Cillian O Connor is not an elite forward, Andy Moran is not an elite forward. If they played for Tyrone we would have Mickey's disciples telling us all that we don't have elite forwards. You tell us that Tyrone are only unwatchable because the media tell us so.....

Unbelievable

I expect this sh1t from bomber and Redzone and  Redhand Santa but now we have another, (or maybe just another account from one of the above)

How can you say o Connor isn't an elite forward? He has finished top scorer in the championship 4 times i think? Kicked 7 points out of mayos 13 when they beat us in 2016 QF! He kicked 5 in their league win over us last year. We had no one even close to those numbers. We also don't have a forward who would do what he did to level the 2016 AIF either