China Coronavirus

[GetOverTheBar]

The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.

Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?

The CMO will always err on caution, he's looking at models, trends, cases, new variants and so on. the government are trying to decide safety and economy. That's what they will be judged on.

The lockdowns were half arsed and that's why we have the results we had.

Should things drop off like they seem to be doing,  the government will open up a bit more, I'd be hopeful we'll be having dinner out on the 5th of March, outside sports will open up and we'll have a GAA season to look forward too.

The vaccines will rapidly reduce admissions to hospitals and illness's will be treatable at home, allowing us to get back to normal

I've no problem with the CMO, with regards to his job, information or role. It's the fact he's in front of the TV cameras saying this all. He's got no place there because it shows in how he speaks, that he's the only one with 'nothing to lose' and it shows in his conferences. It rubs me up the wrong way.

I get that he's on the other side of caution, but posting the lowest numbers in months - you could think he would say something to effect that things are going well, we are getting closer - just some more weeks to go....give us a few figures to say that and portray a more positive message. Yesterday was a man not really in touch with the public feeling for me.

[Angelo]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

[Louther]

The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.

Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?

The CMO will always err on caution, he's looking at models, trends, cases, new variants and so on. the government are trying to decide safety and economy. That's what they will be judged on.

The lockdowns were half arsed and that's why we have the results we had.

Should things drop off like they seem to be doing,  the government will open up a bit more, I'd be hopeful we'll be having dinner out on the 5th of March, outside sports will open up and we'll have a GAA season to look forward too.

The vaccines will rapidly reduce admissions to hospitals and illness's will be treatable at home, allowing us to get back to normal

I've no problem with the CMO, with regards to his job, information or role. It's the fact he's in front of the TV cameras saying this all. He's got no place there because it shows in how he speaks, that he's the only one with 'nothing to lose' and it shows in his conferences. It rubs me up the wrong way.

I get that he's on the other side of caution, but posting the lowest numbers in months - you could think he would say something to effect that things are going well, we are getting closer - just some more weeks to go....give us a few figures to say that and portray a more positive message. Yesterday was a man not really in touch with the public feeling for me.

Change the channel FFS, it's not hard.

The CMO, north or south, is delivering news of people dying, daily. He's giving news of cases that he knows will lead to more death. How do you dress this up? He has to deal with realities and giving any kind of misleading news or hope will be jumped upon, high line news and then thrown back at him if/when it doesn't come to pass. Everything he says is micro analysed so he has to be cautious.

I've long since stopped watching the briefings or delving into what's been said. It's very easily done.

[Seamus]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

[sid waddell]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

[Angelo]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.

[Milltown Row2]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

As much as Sid can go off on the ills of the world hitting him on mental health is below the belt

[sid waddell]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.

Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

[Angelo]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.

Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

[Louther]

Angelo propaganda yet again.

All public health have signaled from day one that the massive risk to them is widespread community transmission. This was very clear on RTE last night. How they can make more space between beds when they've ambulances parked up with patients inside and doctors deciding who gets into a bed when one becomes available? How they try and make space for ICU beds in an operating theatre that they can no longer use as they need ICU beds and then double the capacity in this space by hanging a sheet to divide room in two.

Rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough. IMNO have said this. Staff can get tests daily and have been doing so for months.  PPE hasn't been in short supply since last April/May, they burning through the stuff at unprecedented levels but they have supply.

There is long standing issues in the health care system but none in the world that can stand up to a pandemic.

[sid waddell]

@Angelo:

If you think it was a failure of not having enough PPE, why then were you calling for society to be opening up months ago? Because it should have been obvious that Covid would get into hospitals and nursing homes

As somebody who actually has personal experience both of being a full time carer and of being in a hospital including a Covid ward during this pandemic, I know the reality is that there are any number of ways Covid can get in and infect people and kill them, sure I could easily have brought it in had I had it without knowing

In a situation where Covid is rampant in the community, Covid WILL get in, no matter what you do, it's like water

And good as the staff are - and they are very good and I do not blame them one iota for my father catching Covid in hospital, they can't do anything about it

[Angelo]

Angelo propaganda yet again.

All public health have signaled from day one that the massive risk to them is widespread community transmission. This was very clear on RTE last night. How they can make more space between beds when they've ambulances parked up with patients inside and doctors deciding who gets into a bed when one becomes available? How they try and make space for ICU beds in an operating theatre that they can no longer use as they need ICU beds and then double the capacity in this space by hanging a sheet to divide room in two.

Rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough. IMNO have said this. Staff can get tests daily and have been doing so for months.  PPE hasn't been in short supply since last April/May, they burning through the stuff at unprecedented levels but they have supply.

There is long standing issues in the health care system but none in the world that can stand up to a pandemic.

You accuse me of propaganda when you put up a post laden with it.

If rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough then why are we now introducing it now? That's a self-defeating argument there. It's a bit like when they told us for months not to wear masks and then they told us we should be wearing masks then we they made masks mandatory and cases shot up across the board.

The problem is that 50% of those who died picked it up in nursing homes, that is a scandal.

The problem is that 1/3 of hospital patients with Covid picked it up in hospital, that is a scandal.

And you can keep trotting out every little excuse you want for the government and health departments, these are there failings and that blood is on their hands.

[Angelo]

@Angelo:

If you think it was a failure of not having enough PPE, why then were you calling for society to be opening up months ago? Because it should have been obvious that Covid would get into hospitals and nursing homes

As somebody who actually has personal experience both of being a full time carer and of being in a hospital including a Covid ward during this pandemic, I know the reality is that there are any number of ways Covid can get in and infect people and kill them, sure I could easily have brought it in had I had it without knowing

In a situation where Covid is rampant in the community, Covid WILL get in, no matter what you do, it's like water

And good as the staff are - and they are very good and I do not blame them one iota for my father catching Covid in hospital, they can't do anything about it

Why do the INMO dispute what you say so? Do they not have experience? The INMO lay the blame firmly at the hands of the HSE and govt, that is where they differ wildly with you.

[Angelo]

https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-covid-5324012-Jan2021/

THE IRISH NURSES and Midwives Organisation (INMO) has said the healthcare system is overloaded and is calling for "urgent governemnt intervention".

The union's executive council met today to discuss the "unprecedented" pressure on frontline members due to the rapid growth in Covid-19 cases.

They are calling for the level of PPE in healthcare settings to be upgraded to FFP2 masks and an end to the policy allowing asymptomatic close contacts to return to work.

This morning HSE Chief Operations Officer Dr Anne O'Connor said requesting close contacts to return to work was a "last resort", but the healthcare service is now under significant pressure and needs the staff.

"The reality is that the demand now is so high, and the numbers are becoming so high that we need staff at work and given the level of absenteeism that is becoming very difficult across the board," she said.

The INMO is also calling for private hospital capacity to be fully nationalised into the public system to provide additional beds and staffing to the service in the coming weeks. Current government plans are to use a third of this capacity.

The union said the government needs to intervene to ensure there is childminding provision to allow parents of schoolchildren to attend work while schools are closed. It said this could take the form of a partial school reopening for families of healthcare staff or an expansion of after-school care.

Other measures highlighted by the INMO include a continuation of vaccination priority for healthcare workers and protections and pay for nursing the midwifery students and interns who it said are facing high Covid-19 risks.

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13.01.21
HSE calls close contacts back into work with more than 7,000 health staff absent
INMO president and emergency department nurse, Karen McGowan today said the system "is overloaded and they cannot cope".

"Decisions at every level are happening too late to prevent infection and overburden. The consequences are increasingly clear – our frontline members are paying the price," she said.

INMO general secretary, Phil Ní Sheaghdha, said this situation should be treated as a national emergency.

"The public health service was not fit for purpose before the pandemic – it is now under a level of pressure not seen before. We are at the point where staff are not able to cope. There are huge numbers of very sick patients, with 7,000 HSE staff now out for Covid reasons. Over 2,500 healthcare workers a week are getting the virus," she said.

"Our executive council has set out five practical measures the government should intervene with. We need all hands on deck in the health service and frontline staff must be protected.

"Safety standards need an urgent upgrade. Last year, the INMO had to campaign to get facemasks in healthcare settings. We were told it was not possible or necessary, but eventually they listened. We now know that all staff need to be issued with high-standard FFP2 masks, as has been done in Cork University Hospital.

"It is beyond time to nationalise all private hospital capacity and to provide childminding for healthcare workers with children. Similarly, we cannot ask students to take on more work at the expense of learning, for no or low pay."

[Milltown Row2]

The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.

Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.

Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great