No more Ulster finals in Croke Park?

[Mid Mon]

Fermanagh wouldn't have a problen with Clones either, its on their door step. that only leaves Donegal, Derry, Antrim and Down. Donegal will unfortunatly have to travel a longer distance regardless and the other 3 can play their Hurling final in Casement.

[Donagh]

Parking isn't a problem in Clones....not compared to Croke Park anyways!

Try it on a wet Sunday afternoon when you're parked a mile out the Monaghan Rd, on the grass verge, with no footpath and a load of kids in toe. Dublin has loads of multi-storey parking, footpaths, busses and even people who don't charge for the privilege of parking outside their houses.

[lynchbhoy]

they'd want to get an equal investment put into the town - well more so the infrastructure as said.

I like Clones, but the parking and roads are a disaster

[Goats Do Shave]

Parking isn't a problem in Clones....not compared to Croke Park anyways!

Try it on a wet Sunday afternoon when you're parked a mile out the Monaghan Rd, on the grass verge, with no footpath and a load of kids in toe. Dublin has loads of multi-storey parking, footpaths, busses and even people who don't charge for the privilege of parking outside their houses.

Has Dublin got a roof on it from I was last there?? 

- Surely you can get yourself the GAA essentials of waterproofs...mine are always packed for such occasions...beats the umbrella brigade!!! (No need to start that argument again!!) 

Didn't hear of anyone getting clamped in Clones either...

[Donagh]

I do have waterproofs, but I draw the line at having to wear wellies to a game.

[armaghniac]

A couple of issues here. The traffic problems in Clones are considerable, but a similar crowd at another venue wouldn't be any better and the completion of the Castleblayney and Monaghan bypasses may improve things. Casement has the M1, but you either filter through the Stockman's lane roundabout or head off on city streets to another junction, neither of these options will be exactly free flowing. Congestion is worst when most of traffic approaching from the same direction. Omagh would not meet the bill in this case, any combination of Armagh/Cavan/Down/Monaghan would have pretty much everyone trying to make their way from Ballygawley.

The question is what should be capacity be? This may depend on whether the Maze is ever to be built. Of Ulster final combinations any combination of Fermanagh/Cavan/Monaghan/Derry/Antrim would probably fit into the current capacity and would be facilitated by a modest increase in capacity to 40000 and a roof or two. Donegal people seem more willing to travel to Croke Pk than Clones. Tyrone/Armagh/Down could probably raise a crowd beyond the current capacity, especially if one or more of these teams are competitive at national level. With the improvement in the Dublin-Belfast road Armagh and Down people could almost get to Croke Pk as handy as anywhere, if the capacity was needed. It might be better to improve Clones to a 400000-42000 capacity and still play games every few years in Croke Pk if the demand is there.

[hows she cutting]

have to say i'm a fan of Clones myself, the 13 men win against Derry in 95 was the scene of one of Tyrones greatest triumphs. Still don't know why Pascal Canavan was sent off though!!

always good craic in the town before and after games

defo need to sort road and parking out though before increasing the capacity

[Rufus T Firefly]

Has there ever been a Ulster final in Casement?

What was the largest attendance at a match in casement?
How many of you would be happy to have the final held in Belfast?

It was played there in the 1950s/1960s - the Ulster Final attendance record that lasted for many years was set in Casement - 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final between Armagh and Down.

The whole issue though raises many questions, not least of which is the Maze project. Prior to going to Croke Park, I always felt that Clones needed to be extended to about 50k - and there is the room to do that. As has also been stated though, Dublin is getting as handy as Clones with the improvement in the roads, so the need for a 50K stadium is diminishing.

By the way, outside of Croker, I would have to say Clones currently is as modern a GAA stadium as there is!

[cavanmaniac]

This thread came up in the summer and someone has already posted a thread about stadium planning in the GAA, and rightly so.

Basically, there's a culture of lunacy in the GAA when it comes to developing stadia. Everyone builds the shiny edifice first and then worries about the potential games to be played there later. Already we have county boards in a few counties bemoaning the lack of games being played at their expensive new grounds.

Kingspan Breffni Park is on a par with Clones at the moment, the town itself is nicer and more accessible but it gets damn all games. Not saying it should get Ulster finals as these need to be more central but the odd Ulster semi, if the geography of the pairing suits, wouldn't go astray.

The gaelic grounds in Limerick is a fine, fine stadium...how many major games does it get to justify the capacity?
Ditto with Wexford Park.
Ditto with Nowlan Park.
Ditto with O'Moore Park.
Salthill, Castlebar (also to be redeveloped), Hyde Park.
And that's just a few.

Pairc Ui Chaoimh and Thurles also in line for major makeovers. WHY? With Limerick's stadium and Fitzgerald Park in Killarney, just how many 40,000 plus stadia does the GAA in Munster need? Building massive vanity projects and then squabbling for the two/three big games every year will eventually just play into the hands of other codes who will press to use them on the basis that they're lying idle so often with big debts to service. I wasn't against opening Croker but other provincial grounds should be off-limits.

Clones going to 50,000 capacity is unwarranted. 40,000 at a push would do, spend the rest of the money putting rooves on what's there already and end the stupid practice of huge open bowl stadia in the GAA with everyone getting bloody soaked on a wet day. There are very few pairings in an Ulster final that would attract more than the current 35,000 capacity so why do it and it'll further cripple the exisiting 'infrastructure' such as it is.

There simply is not the games or the attendances to justify the massive outlay on stadia which will lie idle or seldom if ever be full to the capacity they so proudly trumpet about. Someone needs to gran hold of this so the money goes on more deserving needs.

[Bogball XV]

Basically, there's a culture of lunacy in the GAA when it comes to developing...  Building massive vanity projects and then squabbling for the two/three big games every year will eventually just play into the hands of other codes who will press to use them on the basis that they're lying idle so often with big debts to service. Someone needs to gran hold of this so the money goes on more deserving needs.

Yeah, but if they didn't spend all the money them greedy players would be in a stronger position to demand some recompense for getting the privelege of playing for their county, the scoundrels......

[HaHaHealyPark]

Road access is a major problem for Clones.  It's bad enough as it is - with 50,000 people it would be impossible.  The Ulster Council should take this opportunity to rethink its strategy for the location of Ulster finals.  Healy Park is the obvious choice due to its location in the centre of Ulster and also its road access.  Unfortunately though the Irish government isn't going to invest €12 million (although they paid for the floodlights via the Ulster Council!) into a sports facility in Northern Ireland and there's no chance the British government will make a significant contribution to the GAA.  Obviously Casement is another option but it's distance from a lot of Ulster counties doesn't help its case.

Healy Park is the obvious choice - it can hardly be accused of offering the home team an advantage hardly! I'm smiling again

[The Bottom Brick]

Dublin has loads of multi-storey parking,

not within an asses roar of Croker though

[Onlooker]

I live a long way from Clones, but always enjoyed Ulster Final day.  The atmosphere in the town was always something special and there was a great view from The Hill.  The traffic situation obviously depended on the teams playing, but coming into Clones from the Cavan side or through Newtownbutler it was usually not too bad.   No doubt it could be very bad coming from  Armagh or Down.  I think that Croke Park will always be an option, depending on the likely attendance, but that Clones would be a suitable venue more often than not.

[J70]

Kingspan Breffni Park is on a par with Clones at the moment, the town itself is nicer and more accessible but it gets damn all games. Not saying it should get Ulster finals as these need to be more central but the odd Ulster semi, if the geography of the pairing suits, wouldn't go astray.

Its just about as central as Clones, and given the work done, it should get more games. Anyway, aside from seriously upgrading somewhere like Omagh, there is no location that is fairly central to everybody.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Kingspan Breffni Park is on a par with Clones at the moment, the town itself is nicer and more accessible but it gets damn all games. Not saying it should get Ulster finals as these need to be more central but the odd Ulster semi, if the geography of the pairing suits, wouldn't go astray.

The rest of your point though more or less hit the nail on the head. When Casement was done up a number of years ago, it was guaranteed one semi-final in Ulster each year, with Clones getting the other. Too many good stadiums and not enough big games. The likes of Cavan therefore gets squeezed out.

By the way, Breffni is a lovely ground since it was done up!