They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!

Started by delgany, July 03, 2019, 05:37:12 PM

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lenny

Quote from: rodney trotter on July 04, 2019, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 03, 2019, 08:21:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Trying to solve a problem which does not even exist.

Exactly! That's such a minor issue if it's an issue at all.
John Horan is coming out with an initiative a week and hoping some of them will find favour with the public and deflect from the big issue.

It is becoming a issue, hence why it should be looked at before it becomes like soccer.  I've seen teams kick sideline balls back to the keeper about 30 yards back.. Safety first approach is boring.. Not many want to see that

Totally agree. The back pass rule in soccer transformed the game. I feel sorry for the keepers who are really getting involved in the game and having great craic but this is probably a rule which could be trialled to see if it has an overall positive impact.

blewuporstuffed

Sorry lads, i think its complete nonsense. Its a rule change to solve an issue that isnt really an issue at all.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Esmarelda

#17
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Jayop

If they make it narrow and have it that they can't get a ball back immediately after they've kicked it out and can't receive a back pass from a sideline or free then I'm OK with it. Anything more and it's a joke.

thewobbler

#19
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.

Esmarelda

Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

Esmarelda

Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
From what I've seen, it is very rare for the goalkeeper to be involved in keep ball. It usually happens between the 21 & 45 and the only roaring I do at it is at the team who don't make any effort to break from their comfort blanket to actually go out the field and win the ball back. These teams who are losing the game and still keep everyone back deserve absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. There are those who believe that it is up to the team in possession to bring the ball to them. That is beyond me.
Either way, taking the goalkeepers out of it is bullshit and will not stifle keep ball one iota.
I agree with your outlook on the other team needing to press up, but I seemed to be in the minority on that.

The goalkeeper mightn't actually have been involved in these scenarios that often but he's the safeguard at the back of the process who might actually deter a team from pressing up.

I'm not all out for this rule as I'm much more in the camp of let the game evolve, but compared to what we've been looking at with the sideline ball and handpass I think it's worth a look.

highorlow

They get momentum, they go mad, here they go

Keyser soze

John Horan is full of shit. And appears to be a really arrogant man as well.

five points

Quote from: Keyser soze on July 05, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
John Horan is full of shit. And appears to be a really arrogant man as well.

I've met him in person and he's anything but arrogant, in fact nice to the point of disarming.

Given his role in heading the Leinster Council at a time when it wouldn't even hand Dublin an away game in the Leinster football championship, he always struck me as an unsuitable choice for GAA President but I can see why county delegates voted in droves for him.

Rossfan

Unfortunately he seems to be still acting as Dublin delegate instead of National President.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Tyrdub

Quote from: theticklemister on July 04, 2019, 06:03:56 PM
What the f**k is Donal Og Cusack doing comparing not passing to goalkeepers to British colonial rule??

can you put up his quote please?

thewobbler

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.

Esmarelda

Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.

johnnycool

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.

It depends on how you define the "curse on the game" though.

Is the curse the fact that teams kill time by playing the ball back and forth in their own half or the fact that getting back to defend is now so ingrained in some teams that they don't push out to put pressure on teams with the ball until they cross midfield, even teams that are behind on the scoreboard.

Which is it?