He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
Certainly worth looking at.
Hmmmmmm. ...
But why for Hurling -sure the ref is only a score keeper.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
Hmmmmmm. ...
But why for Hurling -sure the ref is only a score keeper.
Can you imagine the whinging if we didn't....
This is what happens when you stop giving games to the elite refs from Meath.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
that's a good idea and definitely needs looked at.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
Nolan was very poor in u20 final. He gave ye nothing in first half and we could got a couple frees in second half. In GAA the worse a referee performs they seem to be rewarded with more games. Considering Nolan is one of few referees to have played inter county level thought would be a lot better as a referee as implying common sense.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
The standard of refereeing is very poor alright but the inconsistency in how different referees interpret things from one game to the next is a big part of the reason. It is a difficult game to referee but there is a distinct lack of physicality allowed by most referees in the current game. Paying full time referees is certainly not a route that I would like to see and I don't think that will ever happen in any case. The GPA would be up in arms. Plus it doesn't actually guarantee anything, there are plenty of poor full time officials in the premier league and they are full time.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 13, 2018, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
The standard of refereeing is very poor alright but the inconsistency in how different referees interpret things from one game to the next is a big part of the reason. It is a difficult game to referee but there is a distinct lack of physicality allowed by most referees in the current game. Paying full time referees is certainly not a route that I would like to see and I don't think that will ever happen in any case. The GPA would be up in arms. Plus it doesn't actually guarantee anything, there are plenty of poor full time officials in the premier league and they are full time.
Surely a professional approach would help with that uniformity that is required for consistency. They will be training and working together, we need group think.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 03:26:55 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 13, 2018, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
He should resign, the standard of refereeing is at all time low.
If Anthony Nolan is one of the best referee's in the country then it's time to bring back Seamus Aldridge.
This notion that unless it can be implemented at club level the it can't be introduced is ridiculous, the pace of inter-county football is miles ahead of the highest club standard.
If the GAA can have full time administrators then it's time for full-time referees.
5 per province for football and hurling- refereeing Jan -Sep, training and educating referees - Oct - Dec.
Put them on a retainer of 25k and then a match fee.
The standard of refereeing is very poor alright but the inconsistency in how different referees interpret things from one game to the next is a big part of the reason. It is a difficult game to referee but there is a distinct lack of physicality allowed by most referees in the current game. Paying full time referees is certainly not a route that I would like to see and I don't think that will ever happen in any case. The GPA would be up in arms. Plus it doesn't actually guarantee anything, there are plenty of poor full time officials in the premier league and they are full time.
Surely a professional approach would help with that uniformity that is required for consistency. They will be training and working together, we need group think.
Perhaps it might, but you can have a professional approach without paying them full time salaries. Some of them have big enough egos as it is, I can only imagine what they would be like if they had it as a full time profession.
In fairness the gap left by the two Duffy's retirement is not easy to fill in a hurry.
I've been advocating 2 refs (one in each half ) for years, nobody can keep up with the pace and nobody has eyes in the back of their head, I strongly feel that 2 refs would lead to better calls (closer to the play) and would help eliminate the amount of off the ball nonsense that is currently in the game. I think we all see that Gaelic football is losing its appeal due to strategy and fixing the referee issue is only one of several changes required. 50,000 at an AI semi-final involving the dubs is a definite indication of the lack of interest in the modern game...
Oh for a ref with the dedication to implementing the rules of my fellow county man John Gough. He set the standard in '83.
Think we need a separate set of rules for the inter-county game tbh.
Some things, i.e. the two refs, would work well at county level but simply wouldn't be practical at club level.
I don't think we need two refs. We need to use the other 7 officials that are supposed to be helping to run the game. They are all mic'ed up, so let the umpires, linesmen and fourth official advise the referee of off the ball frees etc.
Imagine Nolan and let's say Gough refereeing in each half yesterday. You would have one referee trying to let the game flow and another blowing for free kicks that nobody else in the ground could see. It would be chaos and lead to even more confusion. I really don't think this would be a good idea it would just lead to inconsistencies within the same match rather than from match to match.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 13, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
I don't think we need two refs. We need to use the other 7 officials that are supposed to be helping to run the game. They are all mic'ed up, so let the umpires, linesmen and fourth official advise the referee of off the ball frees etc.
Off the ball frees are one thing, but a tackle being made so far from the ref that he is effectively guessing is a big problem.
The two linesmen at that level are referees. Call them second and third refs or whatever you want to call them, but they need to be allowed make calls if they're in the area of the incident.
You will have inconsistencies regardless of whether it's one or 2 refs. Does anyone know exactly what you can and can't do while tackling apart from dragging a man down or pulling the Shirt? I think 2 refs would get on the same page quickly, it works in other sports...
I think much of the problem is the how the rules are too open to interpretation. As an example you see the player with the ball getting tackled and suddenly swarmed. One referee will give a free for overcarrying and another a free to the forward for a push or the like. Both fouls may have occurred but what is the correct decision. My favourite bug bear is that if a defender tackles one on one a foul and booking is more easily seen. The swarm defending often results in 'incidental ' physical contact which is seldom penalised. In many cases the 'incidental contact is deliberate and used to 'soften' the forward. Where did the rule go that you were only allowed to tackle the ball and shoulder charge? If you are making physical contact with an opponent and not making an attempt for the ball surely that is a foul. Or is it?
I suppose what I am trying to say is how do we improve the standard of refereeing when so many rules can be interpreted differently? It is also no coincidence that the standard of refereeing has apparently fallen at the same time as the game has morphed into an at many times unwatchable mix of rugby league and basketball.
Barry Cassidy and Anthony Nolan are the All Ireland football semi final referees this year. That summarises where we are at.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 13, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
I don't think we need two refs. We need to use the other 7 officials that are supposed to be helping to run the game. They are all mic'ed up, so let the umpires, linesmen and fourth official advise the referee of off the ball frees etc.
this, the two sideline officials aswell as the 4th official are all intercounty refs and should have more use than they are currently used
Quote from: Throw ball on August 13, 2018, 06:54:19 PM
I think much of the problem is the how the rules are too open to interpretation. As an example you see the player with the ball getting tackled and suddenly swarmed. One referee will give a free for overcarrying and another a free to the forward for a push or the like. Both fouls may have occurred but what is the correct decision. My favourite bug bear is that if a defender tackles one on one a foul and booking is more easily seen. The swarm defending often results in 'incidental ' physical contact which is seldom penalised. In many cases the 'incidental contact is deliberate and used to 'soften' the forward. Where did the rule go that you were only allowed to tackle the ball and shoulder charge? If you are making physical contact with an opponent and not making an attempt for the ball surely that is a foul. Or is it?
I suppose what I am trying to say is how do we improve the standard of refereeing when so many rules can be interpreted differently? It is also no coincidence that the standard of refereeing has apparently fallen at the same time as the game has morphed into an at many times unwatchable mix of rugby league and basketball.
No - and this is what the problem is. The tackle is open to interpretation. Very little else is but it has become that way.
4 steps is not open to interpretation and is continuosly and consistently abused. Proper application of this rule alone would change the face of the game. That and many of the excuses for hand passes that are allowed. "Clear striking action" is what the rule says. A huge % of handpasses are throws with the token waving of a pretend "striking hand" at the ball.
With tackling you can usually see a pull or a hold or contact that is in no way attempting to play the ball. It is less clear granted but when you see guys who are good tacklers like Tyrone at times yesterday it's a tremendous skill. Everything is weighted in the ball carriers favour the way the game is nowaday. He can take 10 steps. He can throw the ball away to a teammate. He can dive and can even still get away with the old hook the arm trick. That's why defences are now crowd scenes....it's so hard for defenders one on one with the way the game is refereed. I played all over the field so this isn't a "backs union" post - I wish when I played as a forward the rules were implemented as they are now.
With the greatest respect to my fellow county man I don't think two refs would improve matters. As AZ says, there are already 7 officials there. I can just imagine the hoots of derision when both refs blow for a free and point in opposite directions....don't tell me it wouldn't happen!!!
I thought Nolan was really, really bad on Sunday. I've Tyrone blood so a bit biased and thought he was killing Tyrone especially in the second half. Most Monaghan folk think the opposite from what I hear.
It's damn near impossible to ref gaelic football as there is no clear consensus on what the 'correct' interpretation of a tackle is.
In the AFL, there is a committee that periodically give public feedback on topical rules. E.g. recent ones have been head high contact or off the ball bumps. They show a few examples to say: this has been reffed this way until now, but we will be communicating to umpires to take this view of it.
That way players see what the agreed consensus is at the same time the refs do (obv the refs may get further in depth pointers from such a committee).
The problem with this approach is I doubt you could get consensus even within a committee as to what is the correct way to officiate a tackle, especially where there are multiple defenders around a forward in possession.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2018, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on August 13, 2018, 06:54:19 PM
I think much of the problem is the how the rules are too open to interpretation. As an example you see the player with the ball getting tackled and suddenly swarmed. One referee will give a free for overcarrying and another a free to the forward for a push or the like. Both fouls may have occurred but what is the correct decision. My favourite bug bear is that if a defender tackles one on one a foul and booking is more easily seen. The swarm defending often results in 'incidental ' physical contact which is seldom penalised. In many cases the 'incidental contact is deliberate and used to 'soften' the forward. Where did the rule go that you were only allowed to tackle the ball and shoulder charge? If you are making physical contact with an opponent and not making an attempt for the ball surely that is a foul. Or is it?
I suppose what I am trying to say is how do we improve the standard of refereeing when so many rules can be interpreted differently? It is also no coincidence that the standard of refereeing has apparently fallen at the same time as the game has morphed into an at many times unwatchable mix of rugby league and basketball.
No - and this is what the problem is. The tackle is open to interpretation. Very little else is but it has become that way.
4 steps is not open to interpretation and is continuosly and consistently abused. Proper application of this rule alone would change the face of the game. That and many of the excuses for hand passes that are allowed. "Clear striking action" is what the rule says. A huge % of handpasses are throws with the token waving of a pretend "striking hand" at the ball.
With tackling you can usually see a pull or a hold or contact that is in no way attempting to play the ball. It is less clear granted but when you see guys who are good tacklers like Tyrone at times yesterday it's a tremendous skill. Everything is weighted in the ball carriers favour the way the game is nowaday. He can take 10 steps. He can throw the ball away to a teammate. He can dive and can even still get away with the old hook the arm trick. That's why defences are now crowd scenes....it's so hard for defenders one on one with the way the game is refereed. I played all over the field so this isn't a "backs union" post - I wish when I played as a forward the rules were implemented as they are now.
With the greatest respect to my fellow county man I don't think two refs would improve matters. As AZ says, there are already 7 officials there. I can just imagine the hoots of derision when both refs blow for a free and point in opposite directions....don't tell me it wouldn't happen!!!
I thought Nolan was really, really bad on Sunday. I've Tyrone blood so a bit biased and thought he was killing Tyrone especially in the second half. Most Monaghan folk think the opposite from what I hear.
(http://tipstricksandentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/10-Pictures-Of-Animals-In-Shock-That-Will-Give-You-Hysterics.jpg)
That explains so much.
Agree with Seanie - the overcarrying and throwing and allowing the ball carrier to get away with all sorts of assaults and charging etc. needs clamping on.
As the game is all about possession maybe time to consider allowing tackling of the man?
How many club games have you been at at one set of supporters are calling for a free and the other ones are laughing it off? everyone sees it differently, different angle, view blocked partially, looking in the other direction for a split second.. the referee has one chance to see it and call it straight away, he doesnt have slow mo, or replays..
He does at championship level have the use of umpires and linesmen. the fourth official will only be concerned with time and subs if honest, he'll be watching the game and not the off the ball stuff, and fourth official would be mainly at intercounty level.. that would be 8 official sets of eyes, all mic'd up to the referee who give an opinion on incidents the referee doesnt see or may see from a different view.. The referee is under no obligation to do anything with the info given to him on the likes of live play, someone tugging a shirt, or a forward pulling an arm and making out he's being fouled, the little nudge in the back when going for the ball and so on, the ref makes those calls, rightly or wrongly, he calls them as he see's them, thats all he can do.
the linesmen/umpires will help with, off the ball stuff they see, scores that they are in a better position to see, square ball (though thats not official but most ref's give the umpires a call on that) and help maybe with a penalty decision, i.e in the box or not
Having two referees will only mean more inconsistency, ones view on a foul might be the same up in the other side of the pitch, as said before using the linesmen for live calls is probably the way forward at intercounty football, providing the linesman 100% sure and is definitely up to the standard of the ref on the pitch, they usually are though...
It wouldnt surprise me that at some level across the board that some referee's will engage with linesmen and use them for that purpose of a live call, but the problem is at club level, can you imagine the gurning if the crowd found out that you are using the linesmen and not your own calls to make a judgement, be another stick to beat you with ffs!
Ive overuled umpires on scores from my position on the line, the sideline was giving me loads the whole half!
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2018, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on August 13, 2018, 06:54:19 PM
I think much of the problem is the how the rules are too open to interpretation. As an example you see the player with the ball getting tackled and suddenly swarmed. One referee will give a free for overcarrying and another a free to the forward for a push or the like. Both fouls may have occurred but what is the correct decision. My favourite bug bear is that if a defender tackles one on one a foul and booking is more easily seen. The swarm defending often results in 'incidental ' physical contact which is seldom penalised. In many cases the 'incidental contact is deliberate and used to 'soften' the forward. Where did the rule go that you were only allowed to tackle the ball and shoulder charge? If you are making physical contact with an opponent and not making an attempt for the ball surely that is a foul. Or is it?
I suppose what I am trying to say is how do we improve the standard of refereeing when so many rules can be interpreted differently? It is also no coincidence that the standard of refereeing has apparently fallen at the same time as the game has morphed into an at many times unwatchable mix of rugby league and basketball.
No - and this is what the problem is. The tackle is open to interpretation. Very little else is but it has become that way.
4 steps is not open to interpretation and is continuosly and consistently abused. Proper application of this rule alone would change the face of the game. That and many of the excuses for hand passes that are allowed. "Clear striking action" is what the rule says. A huge % of handpasses are throws with the token waving of a pretend "striking hand" at the ball.
With tackling you can usually see a pull or a hold or contact that is in no way attempting to play the ball. It is less clear granted but when you see guys who are good tacklers like Tyrone at times yesterday it's a tremendous skill. Everything is weighted in the ball carriers favour the way the game is nowaday. He can take 10 steps. He can throw the ball away to a teammate. He can dive and can even still get away with the old hook the arm trick. That's why defences are now crowd scenes....it's so hard for defenders one on one with the way the game is refereed. I played all over the field so this isn't a "backs union" post - I wish when I played as a forward the rules were implemented as they are now.
With the greatest respect to my fellow county man I don't think two refs would improve matters. As AZ says, there are already 7 officials there. I can just imagine the hoots of derision when both refs blow for a free and point in opposite directions....don't tell me it wouldn't happen!!!
I thought Nolan was really, really bad on Sunday. I've Tyrone blood so a bit biased and thought he was killing Tyrone especially in the second half. Most Monaghan folk think the opposite from what I hear.
A player takes 4 steps and is fouled and then takes a further 4 steps and is fouled again. He then takes 2 further steps and scores. If the referee plays advantage on both fouls is he correct? It is easy to complain about steps but while the crap of swarm defence continues to destroy games that is the least of the games problems.
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 11:15:39 AM
No, steps don't reset on advantage. Once the player breaks the steps rule, it is a free the other way.
The advantage rule needs looked at anyway. If a player shoots and misses during the advantage the free shouldn't be given. The advantage was that he was allowed to go on and have a shot. One or the other, not both ffs.
The advantage rule is excellent when implemented correctly. Especially where the fouled player is able to get his shot away, but can still come back for the free if it misses. If the defender doesn't want the opposition to have two shots at it, then don't foul the forward.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 13, 2018, 07:10:58 PM
Barry Cassidy and Anthony Nolan are the All Ireland football semi final referees this year. That summarises where we are at.
As an ex-Ref, and someone who has feet in both camp on AIF day, i thought Barry was outstanding on Saturday, Anthony less so
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 11:15:39 AM
No, steps don't reset on advantage. Once the player breaks the steps rule, it is a free the other way.
The advantage rule needs looked at anyway. If a player shoots and misses during the advantage the free shouldn't be given. The advantage was that he was allowed to go on and have a shot. One or the other, not both ffs.
I sort of disagree with that, if a player is allowed to shoot within the 5 seconds and it goes wide call it back or if the ref is smart enough and in a good position to see its going wide, call it back before it crosses the line.. the player being fouled is not gaining any advantage from missing the score, had a free been given then it would, more than likely be scored..
As for the steps rule, there seems to be a cross over from the old advantage rule (that wasnt a rule) when a ref allowed a few extra steps to give the player a chance to break a unfair challenge..
yeah your right about the advantage rule needs looked at, I think there are so many good things about it but a small tweak here and there would help with it..
Steps, hmm I'm not as hard on this like some, I should be though, if you're hard on it in every game then the players will know that you must release the ball quicker and eventually that should cut out the steps, being a defender I hated when forwards overcarried the ball, as I went in to tackle at the fourth step and the ref generally allowed another one or two, which was enough for him to get away..
I think on the face of it most ref's allow a couple more to prevent a stop start game (rightly or wrongly it happens) and were he's running around counting the steps, as long as its not bad most ref's get it right and its the exact same for both teams..
The swarm tackle, there has to be an obvious free within that situation, pulling of arm when player is trying to release the ball, tugging the top or punching the stomach not the ball, if there are 14 players arond a player and they are blocking him (legally) then unless the player plays the ball or drops the ball then its not a foul.. the players are allowed to tackle the ball not the man, I know our club players perfected this for a good period
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 14, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 13, 2018, 07:10:58 PM
Barry Cassidy and Anthony Nolan are the All Ireland football semi final referees this year. That summarises where we are at.
As an ex-Ref, and someone who has feet in both camp on AIF day, i thought Barry was outstanding on Saturday, Anthony less so
Barry is the worst ref i have seen over the last few years. He is disgracefully bad tbh.
Quote from: oliverkelly on August 14, 2018, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 14, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 13, 2018, 07:10:58 PM
Barry Cassidy and Anthony Nolan are the All Ireland football semi final referees this year. That summarises where we are at.
As an ex-Ref, and someone who has feet in both camp on AIF day, i thought Barry was outstanding on Saturday, Anthony less so
Barry is the worst ref i have seen over the last few years. He is disgracefully bad tbh.
definitely do not agree with you, there are a whole lot worse than him
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
For me, whether it is a score or not is irrelevant to the attacking player having an advantage. It needs to be determined whether he was in a better attacking position than where the free took place. So, if he gets in 10 yards more and more straight in front of the posts, he has gained the advantage regardless of what he does with the ball.
Calling the free back because he fluffed it is ridiculous.
Basically what I'm saying is - if you're given an advantage and you fcuk it up yourself, tough.
Must remember that one this year ;D
At least I'll have one in the crowd who'll tame the crowd if given against yas
Nolan's woeful performance on sunday has robbed him of any chance of an all ireland in the future.
Yee's are very hard on the referee lads.. watched the Dublin match, to be honest i never seen anything that was stand out bad.. seen plenty shit football mind you :)
Quote from: Unlaoised on August 14, 2018, 01:58:52 PM
Nolan's woeful performance on sunday has robbed him of any chance of an all ireland in the future.
Hopefully
As a neutral,
I was at the game, he ruined it with his whistle happy style and some mind boggling calls.
The three minutes injury time a complete joke.
When Colin Walsh got booked in second half, the play did not restart for 55 seconds.
There should have been at least six.
Those type of mistakes are inexcusable at this level.
I'm a ref also.
Regarding 5 second rule- if a player is in a lot more advantageous after the foul ( for example escapes from tackle and a lot of metres ahead and then hits the shot and misses, I say take your oil) but if he does escape the tackle but still off balance or in a worse position,I will bring it back for foul. Yet again down to referee's discretion, which can vary.
I seen a ref call out 5 seconds loudly after the foul, which is a help I find.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 02:05:38 PM
Yee's are very hard on the referee lads.. watched the Dublin match, to be honest i never seen anything that was stand out bad.. seen plenty shit football mind you :)
I thought the ref for Dublin/Galway was decent to be fair. I do remember a great example of what I'm talking about from that game. A point by Ciaran Kilkenny from the left in the first half.....at least 12 steps. The replay helped me count the steps....in real time thought it was about 6/7.
Quote from: theticklemister on August 14, 2018, 02:44:54 PM
I'm a ref also.
Regarding 5 second rule- if a player is in a lot more advantageous after the foul ( for example escapes front tackle and a lot of metre ahead and then hits the shot and misses, I say take your oil) but if he does escape the tackle but still off balance I will bring it back for foul. Yet again down to referee's discretion, which can vary.
I seen a ref call out 5 seconds loudly after the foul, which is a help I find.
Does he say "one Mississippi two Mississippi...."
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 14, 2018, 02:44:54 PM
I'm a ref also.
Regarding 5 second rule- if a player is in a lot more advantageous after the foul ( for example escapes front tackle and a lot of metre ahead and then hits the shot and misses, I say take your oil) but if he does escape the tackle but still off balance I will bring it back for foul. Yet again down to referee's discretion, which can vary.
I seen a ref call out 5 seconds loudly after the foul, which is a help I find.
Does he say "one Mississippi two Mississippi...."
Na, was "1 bog-side, 2 bog-side..."
Nevertheless I thought it was a good addition
Quote from: joemamas on August 14, 2018, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: Unlaoised on August 14, 2018, 01:58:52 PM
Nolan's woeful performance on sunday has robbed him of any chance of an all ireland in the future.
Hopefully
As a neutral,
I was at the game, he ruined it with his whistle happy style and some mind boggling calls.
The three minutes injury time a complete joke.
When Colin Walsh got booked in second half, the play did not restart for 55 seconds.
There should have been at least six.
Those type of mistakes are inexcusable at this level.
Is it the ref who calculates injury time? I thought it was always the 4th official.
Often the ref gets abuse for shit that's not his fault like Dan Flynn's red card v Galway. It was Mc quillan the sideline official who called the strike not Hurson though many blamed the ref for that call afterwards.
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
For me, whether it is a score or not is irrelevant to the attacking player having an advantage. It needs to be determined whether he was in a better attacking position than where the free took place. So, if he gets in 10 yards more and more straight in front of the posts, he has gained the advantage regardless of what he does with the ball.
Calling the free back because he fluffed it is ridiculous.
Basically what I'm saying is - if you're given an advantage and you fcuk it up yourself, tough.
Must remember that one this year ;D
At least I'll have one in the crowd who'll tame the crowd if given against yas
It's certainly the way I think it should be.
A foul doesn't prevent a score, it prevents the opportunity of a score. If a better opportunity to score is available instead of the free and the player takes it and misses it, that's tough.
The better opportunity and the free shouldn't both be given.
Yes they should, and they are! 😀
Tough shit for the fouler who gave the forward two chances to score instead of one
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 07:55:18 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 14, 2018, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
For me, whether it is a score or not is irrelevant to the attacking player having an advantage. It needs to be determined whether he was in a better attacking position than where the free took place. So, if he gets in 10 yards more and more straight in front of the posts, he has gained the advantage regardless of what he does with the ball.
Calling the free back because he fluffed it is ridiculous.
Basically what I'm saying is - if you're given an advantage and you fcuk it up yourself, tough.
Must remember that one this year ;D
At least I'll have one in the crowd who'll tame the crowd if given against yas
It's certainly the way I think it should be.
A foul doesn't prevent a score, it prevents the opportunity of a score. If a better opportunity to score is available instead of the free and the player takes it and misses it, that's tough.
The better opportunity and the free shouldn't both be given.
Yes they should, and they are! 😀
Tough shit for the fouler who gave the forward two chances to score instead of one
The punishment for a foul is a free.
Why should random fouls (those in which an advantage opportunity presents itself) be rewarded with more than a free?
Should teams get a 2nd chance at any free if there was no advantage played?
Tough shit on the fouler, after all. ::)
Exactly. Tough shit on the fouler. The way it should be. Try tackling without fouling next time.
The black card has to its credit stamped out 90% of the body checking, trips and drag downs so it has worked well. It was never going to eradicate 100% of these incidents. One of the problems now is players trying to buy black cards by running into lads or exaggerating their falls if they tangle up. That's something I think looms large in the mind of refs now and you see them hesitate to dole out black cards in every possible scenario.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 04:32:23 PM
Think we need a separate set of rules for the inter-county game tbh.
Some things, i.e. the two refs, would work well at county level but simply wouldn't be practical at club level.
Agree. There are some areas where there just needs to be a separate set of rules. One of the reasons given for not introducing a stop-clock was that it would not be possible to have a clock in every club ground in the country. The GAA should grant funding to every county board to install a clock in all 32 county grounds, then at least the inter county game could be timed properly and we wouldn't have shit-shows like last Sunday. That would not cost too much and would be money better spent than some of the current 'black hole' projects.
Like in rugby, referees could then stop the clock every time they have to issue a card, every time there's 'handbags', substitutions, injuries etc. and there would be total clarity. It would also cut out a lot of the bullshit that goes on towards the end of matches when the team that are leading start a row/ take a card in order to run down the clock.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on August 14, 2018, 09:06:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 04:32:23 PM
Think we need a separate set of rules for the inter-county game tbh.
Some things, i.e. the two refs, would work well at county level but simply wouldn't be practical at club level.
Agree. There are some areas where there just needs to be a separate set of rules. One of the reasons given for not introducing a stop-clock was that it would not be possible to have a clock in every club ground in the country. The GAA should grant funding to every county board to install a clock in all 32 county grounds, then at least the inter county game could be timed properly and we wouldn't have shit-shows like last Sunday. That would not cost too much and would be money better spent than some of the current 'black hole' projects.
Like in rugby, referees could then stop the clock every time they have to issue a card, every time there's 'handbags', substitutions, injuries etc. and there would be total clarity. It would also cut out a lot of the bullshit that goes on towards the end of matches when the team that are leading start a row/ take a card in order to run down the clock.
The refs wear two watches to insure that they don't lose time, they generally stop the watch during a prolonged period (well I do) I hold the watch up and make a motion to stop the watch, explain to those around that the watch is stopped.. start the watch the moment play resumes.. if it's a sub coming on I'd add 30 seconds possibly.. I'm not sure if a ref just makes it up, if he does then he'd be foolish.
I personally hate time wasters, so the second half I really let the players manager know the clock is stopped and it works for me..
Having a countdown in every ground is silly
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 08:08:53 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 14, 2018, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 07:55:18 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 14, 2018, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
For me, whether it is a score or not is irrelevant to the attacking player having an advantage. It needs to be determined whether he was in a better attacking position than where the free took place. So, if he gets in 10 yards more and more straight in front of the posts, he has gained the advantage regardless of what he does with the ball.
Calling the free back because he fluffed it is ridiculous.
Basically what I'm saying is - if you're given an advantage and you fcuk it up yourself, tough.
Must remember that one this year ;D
At least I'll have one in the crowd who'll tame the crowd if given against yas
It's certainly the way I think it should be.
A foul doesn't prevent a score, it prevents the opportunity of a score. If a better opportunity to score is available instead of the free and the player takes it and misses it, that's tough.
The better opportunity and the free shouldn't both be given.
Yes they should, and they are! 😀
Tough shit for the fouler who gave the forward two chances to score instead of one
The punishment for a foul is a free.
Why should random fouls (those in which an advantage opportunity presents itself) be rewarded with more than a free?
Should teams get a 2nd chance at any free if there was no advantage played?
Tough shit on the fouler, after all. ::)
Exactly. Tough shit on the fouler. The way it should be. Try tackling without fouling next time.
Or we could just give a penalty for every foul. Really sicken the fouling bastids.
Nah, a free with advantage, plus the requisite card if appropriate, is plenty. A penalty is right if the foul takes place in the box.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I raise my hand for advantage and if the players goes over the steps allowed, I'll bring them back for their free. But I have found myself resetting yes.
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
Didn't watch it, was Ref'n :o
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
yip
have to agree with Sligoman2 and Jinxy on two refs.
On the GAA hour Podcast last week Steven McDonnell agreed with Eamonn Fitzmaurice that there
should be two referees at any intercounty game.
Good to see Paul Earley sharing the same view - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtNyJ3ZAqBc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtNyJ3ZAqBc)
surely its worth trialing at some stage.
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
yip
Here is the problem with refs. Anybody can pick a whistle up
Quote from: redzone on August 16, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
yip
Here is the problem with refs. Anybody can pick a whistle up
eh!
Anyone can kick a football, but that doesn't say Mickey Harte will be picking them to play in an AI final.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I agree with you, but that is the rule isnt it?
At the same time a player cant get away with unlimited steps just because there is an advantage being played.Its still a wee bit of a grey are and open to interpretation by the referee
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I agree with you, but that is the rule isnt it?
At the same time a player cant get away with unlimited steps just because there is an advantage being played.Its still a wee bit of a grey are and open to interpretation by the referee
It's not a grey area or open to interpretation. If a player takes too many steps its a technical foul and he should be penalised unless he's due an advantage from being fouled in the build-up. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state "you can take ten steps if you're sorta half being fouled or pulled about".
It started about ten years ago when Sean Cavanagh rounded Rory O'Carrol to score a goal v Dublin. Now it's taken hold in Gaelic football and no-one calls it a foul when it should be (refs and commentators alike). It's one of my big bugbears.
Quote from: trileacman on August 16, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I agree with you, but that is the rule isnt it?
At the same time a player cant get away with unlimited steps just because there is an advantage being played.Its still a wee bit of a grey are and open to interpretation by the referee
It's not a grey area or open to interpretation. If a player takes too many steps its a technical foul and he should be penalised unless he's due an advantage from being fouled in the build-up. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state "you can take ten steps if you're sorta half being fouled or pulled about".
It started about ten years ago when Sean Cavanagh rounded Rory O'Carrol to score a goal v Dublin. Now it's taken hold in Gaelic football and no-one calls it a foul when it should be (refs and commentators alike). It's one of my big bugbears.
What i mean is,rightly or wrongly, it often is open to a referees own interpretation of this rule.
It regularly happens , and you rarely see a player being pulled back for a technical foul when the advantage is being played
So the simple solution is to just give the advantage and call it back, before he takes more steps... the more steps non 'rule' is something thats been left over from before the 5 seconds advantage rule came into play.. referees did allow another few steps if they believed the player was being hauled back unfairly.. there now has to be a clear cut call, there really isnt a grey area..
My only problem with the advantage rule is players/managers 5 seconds are different to the referee's ;)
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: trileacman on August 16, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I agree with you, but that is the rule isnt it?
At the same time a player cant get away with unlimited steps just because there is an advantage being played.Its still a wee bit of a grey are and open to interpretation by the referee
It's not a grey area or open to interpretation. If a player takes too many steps its a technical foul and he should be penalised unless he's due an advantage from being fouled in the build-up. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state "you can take ten steps if you're sorta half being fouled or pulled about".
It started about ten years ago when Sean Cavanagh rounded Rory O'Carrol to score a goal v Dublin. Now it's taken hold in Gaelic football and no-one calls it a foul when it should be (refs and commentators alike). It's one of my big bugbears.
What i mean is,rightly or wrongly, it often is open to a referees own interpretation of this rule.
It regularly happens , and you rarely see a player being pulled back for a technical foul when the advantage is being played
I think peple are confusing 'open to refs interpretation' with 'the ref making a mistake'
Quote from: rosnarun on August 16, 2018, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: trileacman on August 16, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 16, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 15, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
It must be hard to count steps and advantage seconds at the same time.
Multi tasking! Women are good at that
MR, Ticklemaster, any other referees on here,
Do you reset the step count when playing an advantage after someone is fouled?
Not a trick question, just wondering.
I don't but I can see why it happens, if someone is fouled and I raise my arm for advantage I call it back to the original spot or if the player is again fouled before the 5 seconds are up I restart the advantage rule but by the same token the player can't foul the ball... At this point though you will bring on a heap of shit on you that you don't need, play advantage, if there is none just bring it back. Can you imagine if you raise the arm for advantage and then give a foul against player?
I agree with you, but that is the rule isnt it?
At the same time a player cant get away with unlimited steps just because there is an advantage being played.Its still a wee bit of a grey are and open to interpretation by the referee
It's not a grey area or open to interpretation. If a player takes too many steps its a technical foul and he should be penalised unless he's due an advantage from being fouled in the build-up. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state "you can take ten steps if you're sorta half being fouled or pulled about".
It started about ten years ago when Sean Cavanagh rounded Rory O'Carrol to score a goal v Dublin. Now it's taken hold in Gaelic football and no-one calls it a foul when it should be (refs and commentators alike). It's one of my big bugbears.
What i mean is,rightly or wrongly, it often is open to a referees own interpretation of this rule.
It regularly happens , and you rarely see a player being pulled back for a technical foul when the advantage is being played
I think peple are confusing 'open to refs interpretation' with 'the ref making a mistake'
Or a player making a mistake or manager or even a supporter who thinks he knows the rules... Ref's are just like players they have good games and they have a bad game.. move on
Refs decisions annoy me at times but I know in my heart after a game I'd make a greater dogs dinner of reffing if I was in the middle. For example I thought Joe Mc quillan got everything wrong in the Donegal game but if you look objectively at it he got very little wrong. The supposed 3 instances of double hops were missed by me and the crowd around me at the match, It was also obviously missed by the 7 officials who were watching the match, not just Mc quillan.
I think we're awful smart arses in hindsight
Quote from: redzone on August 16, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
yip
Here is the problem with refs. Anybody can pick a whistle up
Here is the problem - anyone can sit on a keyboard. Bit harder controlling 30 players & the mentors. Go try it yourself, instead of spouting.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 18, 2018, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: redzone on August 16, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 15, 2018, 01:35:31 PM
Ok refs, did the ref ride Monaghan v Tyrone?? Cheers
yip
Here is the problem with refs. Anybody can pick a whistle up
Here is the problem - anyone can sit on a keyboard. Bit harder controlling 30 players & the mentors. Go try it yourself, instead of spouting.
If only it were that simple. No one here is claiming they would do better. The issue, for me anyway, is that we have refs getting top level games and they aren't up to it. Nolan was really poor on Sunday but that in itself was no huge surprise. He should never have got an AI semi final
I didn't see the game, so I am not going to comment. But...given that refs rise up through their county to provincial & national level...then what is your solution? Presumably if a referee isn't up to it, they shouldn't advance? Those that do advance have been scrutinised numerous times & are deemed to be more than satisfactory?
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 18, 2018, 09:42:43 PM
I didn't see the game, so I am not going to comment. But...given that refs rise up through their county to provincial & national level...then what is your solution? Presumably if a referee isn't up to it, they shouldn't advance? Those that do advance have been scrutinised numerous times & are deemed to be more than satisfactory?
There was pretty much universal agreement here last week that he was very poor. What we didn't agree on was who his ineptitude benefited the most (for what its worth I thought he was worth a minimum of 2 points to tyrone and possibly as many as 4).
The very fact that he made it this far is deeply concerning. Its not like this is his first bad day at the office. As you say yourself refs rise up though through their counties and provinces. I refuse to accept that he should be at the top tier. The people that are doing the scrutinising need a bit of scrutinising themselves.
What some of the easy frees he gave to Monaghan that led to scores straightred. Why have you not mentioned them. You are making a fool of yourself at this stage
Quote from: straightred on August 19, 2018, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 18, 2018, 09:42:43 PM
I didn't see the game, so I am not going to comment. But...given that refs rise up through their county to provincial & national level...then what is your solution? Presumably if a referee isn't up to it, they shouldn't advance? Those that do advance have been scrutinised numerous times & are deemed to be more than satisfactory?
There was pretty much universal agreement here last week that he was very poor. What we didn't agree on was who his ineptitude benefited the most (for what its worth I thought he was worth a minimum of 2 points to tyrone and possibly as many as 4).
The very fact that he made it this far is deeply concerning. Its not like this is his first bad day at the office. As you say yourself refs rise up though through their counties and provinces. I refuse to accept that he should be at the top tier. The people that are doing the scrutinising need a bit of scrutinising themselves.
Sign up, I'm sure if you're good enough you'll rise through the system and be able to talk shite at a level worth listening to. Until then ..
Quote from: hardstation on August 19, 2018, 11:13:55 PM
Harsh from The Sunday Game here.
Awards for the best things players have done.
Then, worst decisions officials have made.
Unless they have "Player who made a dick of himself" at the end.
It would be considered inappropriate to have a section for players who dropped the ball, hit a ridiculous wide, completely missed a tackle. But it is OK for referees.