Messages

[Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable.]

Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable. I listened to colm Boyle and Darren O'Sullivan on newstalk, Boyle was awful, throwing out line after line of nonsense showing that his only exposure to Derry was cos he got in early for the mayo v Dublin game and watched a few mins.
A lot of commentary has been the same, ultra defensive, play keep ball for minutes on end, slow methodical attacks which can't work (no recognition that those attacks were v cork, Galway and Donegal in games where all 30 players were in the opponent's half), not capable of attacking any other way, very limited panel, no supporting cast up front unlike Kerry (presume this is because seanie has played a little better the last 2 games).

I don't know, but I've seen the majority of Derry games the last few years and most of the shite being written isn't reflective of what we've been watching. Someone was questioning whether Derry can score goals for example - I suspect they're amongst the most clinical and goal minded teams around?

Really looking forward to this one and it will really tell us where we're at, Kerry can be vulnerable we've seen that all year, obviously a very good team, but Clifford aside is there much in it man for man?

They were really up for Tyrone, it might be difficult to get to that same level against a team they're expected to beat comfortably, better to save themselves for the dream final, it could be like that 2015 classic all over again!

I'm taking Glass to give us a masterclass tomorrow, defensively and attacking wise, redeem himself for last year's semi and nail on his footballer of the year credentials. Easy!!

You've a point there that I would agree with totally. And Darran O'Sullivan wouldn't have watched Derry v Cork I'd be fairly sure either. It's typical of the manure that largely passes for "journalism" on Football at the moment. Even the Football pod lads, who are good football men, spoof it a bit at times from abroad having clearly not really watched games.

I know it's behind a paywall but the Irish Examiner is really good on football, way ahead of most. Paul Rouse, Fitzmaurice (boring though he can be), James Horan, Malachy O'Rourke, Paddy Kelly and some other good, genuine football people. Who actually watch and are involved in football.

Cahair O'Kane in the irish news is one that has to be mentioned aswell in fairness. Regular quality output.

Most of the rest I wouldn't get worked up about.

Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

It's perfect for Derry I'd imagine, all this talk of Kerry v Dublin final suits them fine. I hope it doesn't seep into Kerry squad at all. Don't need that to take the edge off.

I think most clued in people realise that while Dublin really should be well over Monaghan on Saturday, it would be no surprise at all if the game Sunday is a tight one.

[They are Tyrone people in green and gold.]

I have to admit. the Kerry people I know love the rivalry and the passion and anger it brings out in them and their teams. They take losing bad and look for deflection and things they can blame.  They are Tyrone people in green and gold. Love the lead up to a Kerry game and love the rivalry.  Feckin hate the defeats and nowadays would see the rivalry as very respectful and aggerssive, which to me is the best rivalry.

Aside from the bolded bit which made me puke a little, would agree. It's a real rivalry and when the draw threw it up it was a bit of added buzz straight away. Despite whatever chip on the shoulder Thronies might have or despite the (largely) imagined sleights against them from Kerry people, we know Tyrone are a serious football county now at every level. And yes, it's a real rivalry, unlike some other so-called rivlaries that are totally one-sided.

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Do you think Doire should set up more like the 2017 Minor Final?!!   
Seriously though, do you think Doire's set-up has served us well since we were in Division 4?  Now in Division 1; 2 Ulsters back to back, first this century.  Second All-Ireland semi-final in a row.  Cad é do thuairim?!

Ah no of course not. Read my first post quoted above - Derry are doing what suits them and it is has yielded a good dividend for them.

I don't think it wins you an All Ireland the system/tactical approach, unless you get really lucky. I could be wrong of course and eating my words before long but don't think so. This is year 3/4 now for this Derry group and I thought they would have evolved a bit more. Maybe Sunday is going to be the moment they take things a step further. We'll see.

By the way, the mid term future for Derry football looks better than almost every other county, which is clearly an indicator of massive work being done on the ground up there. So I fully expect Derry to be at the top table and winning an All Ireland in the very near future.

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

How many players featured in the 2017 and the 2020 AI minor finals between both sides?

2017: David Cliff, Diarmuid O'Connor, Chris O'Donoghue
Too early for 2020 crew yet!

Sides met in 2015 minor semi: Jason Foley, Gavin White, Seánie O'Shea were playing. That was a tight, tough game. Was virtually the final as Kerry wiped Tipp in final. Glass and Shane McGuigan (maybe more) played for Derry. Mark O'Connor was Kerry's standout player really. Such a loss at the moment.

Also met in 2016 which was a decent game also. O'Shea, Clifford still there were joined by Graham O'Sullivan, Mike Breen, Dara Moynihan. Stefan Okunbor, currently injured, came on also.

Edit: you also have the 2016 Hogan cup final of course in which Clifford, Moynihan, Chris O'Donoghue faced Glass, McGuigan et all.

Good bit of history between a few of the players when you look at it!

[Guiney]

It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

Shur poor ol Paul is so old he can't jump much at this stage and David is struggling for form.

[Guiney]

It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

This was very disturbing news to hear and when you see the footage going around, it's just not good enough. Hope the 2 people injured are ok and the kids watching (and let's not forget, they are kids..this was a bloody u16 game) are ok and not too shook.

A poster mentioned a few posts back - we've a huge problem all over the country now. There have been refs harassed and assaulted in virtually every county I'd say in last few years. If we don't take hard action now, we'll struggle to have referees and run games pretty soon. Everyone has to realise that surely?
So as mentioned already, I think we need strict enforcement of a zero policy approach for mentors entering pitches - straight automatic red card, also a club who does what the mentors of the club did last night - which lets be honest must be fairly scary for the ref being hounded after the game. For that, the team must be removed from that competition and the club hit with an automatic fine.

Much more that could be said and done - I 100% think we have made sh*t of refereeing in recent years in Gaelic football with all these rule changes and it hasn't helped BUT the standard of refereeing at inter county level even does frustrate me, so a lot more referee training is needed aswell, but that's down the list compared to the above in my view.

Very surprised with the ease of the Kerry win Saturday as many are. I knew Tyrone had difficulty with Westmeath but they aren't bad. Then Tyrone hammered Donegal so I guess no more than ourselves the form was patchy. However the lack of much intensity or even pace from Tyrone was shocking. David Cliff and Geaney missed a lot of shots that should really have been scores so on another day the margin could have been even wider.

I did think before the game that Tyrone's structure might be a problem for them in a way. Canvans, McCurry and Donnelly all starting and being out and out forwards didn't make sense with the overall plan. And that turned out to be the case in the game. Mattie Donnelly was well away from goal largely and Graham O'Sullivan made hay and was involved in loads of attacks. McCurry spent a lot of time running around out the field aswell but was well shackled by Jason Foley all day. Darragh Canavan kicked a great point in the first half and got one more but Tom O'Sullivan had every bit as much effect on the game. Ruari Canavan showed his class and that he's one for the future, gave Paul Murphy a bit of bother for a while. Was surprised he was taken off - someone said above he was injured which would make sense. Overall though the personnel and structure of Tyrone didn't seem to make total sense like it did 2 years ago to be fair. A lot of that down to McShane being out of course.

At half time, was happy enough but thought turning around against the wind we would be in for a bit of a battle but after 40 odd minutes it was all over really. How much Tyrone were effected by the 3 games in 3 weekends and/or just had a bad day I don't know. Kerry were good without being stellar in some departments. A tough test against Derry ahead, who certainly won't lack pace or drive. On form it looks like a Kerry v Dublin final on form BUT Derry would only love to ruin that narrative.

[accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp.]

It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people

It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).

Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.

Jesus anyone saying that is clueless. Canavan, O'Neill, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, McGuigan are some of the best players I've ever seen. The 2005 performances alone especially from quarter final on, were unbelievable. Still think that final is up there with the best games I've seen and that's with my team losing.

Do cork have a chance?

I think if Cork had a full deck to pick from they'd have a right crack at it, but Hurley especially is a huge loss. He'd take marking so it makes it easier for Derry. The midfield battle will be one to watch here. Should be good.

Hurley a loss but it's worth noting he only scored 0-2(1f) against Mayo before going off injured on 55 mins and Cork would go on to outscore Mayo 1-6 to 1-1 to win by 3. Didn't feature at all in their victory against Roscommon.  Cork in the last couple of games had a good spread of scorers, with defenders and subs making big impacts.  One can't underestimate that the last two matches took a lot out of Cork and fresher Derry should be winning probably by closing the game out in the final 15 mins.

He's been struggling with injuries of late and then his hammer went badly enough in Mayo game, so as you say he hasn't been as effective as he can be. But he showed flashes in Kerry game of what he can do and if he were in any sort of shape Derry would be forced to man-mark him if he was out there which would improve the outlook for Cork forwards around him.

He most likely won't play though unfortunately for Cork. Derry would win even if he were there I feel anyway.

Do cork have a chance?

I think if Cork had a full deck to pick from they'd have a right crack at it, but Hurley especially is a huge loss. He'd take marking so it makes it easier for Derry. The midfield battle will be one to watch here. Should be good.

Kerry team named. Begley and O'Brien still held in reserve which I'm a bit surprised with.
1   Shane Ryan   
2   Graham O'Sullivan   
3   Jason Foley   
4   Tom O'Sullivan   
5   Paul Murphy   
6   Tadhg Morley   
7   Gavin White   
8   Diarmuid O'Connor   
9   Jack Barry   
10   Dara Moynihan   
11   Seán O'Shea   
12   Adrian Spillane   
13   Paudie Clifford   
14   David Clifford   
15   Paul Geaney   
16   Shane Murphy   
17   Tony Brosnan   
18   Mike Breen   
19   Brian Ó Beaglaoich   
20   Barry Dan O'Sullivan   
21   Ruairí Murphy   
22   Micheál Burns   
23   Stephen O'Brien
24   Donal O'Sullivan   
25   Dylan Casey   
26   Seán O'Brien