Championship structures - the never ending saga?

[BennyCake]

Provincial c'ships are finished. As they aren't linked to Sam, it's just pointless.

I favour a 32 county open draw, FA cup style. No seeding.

I wish they'd do something quick though, people are leaving in their droves.

[thewobbler]

I am of course biased, but I've never seen a championship structure proposal that is more egalitarian than my own, nor one that would have less impact on existing provincial structures, nor one that gives so much kudos back to league football.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.0

I am of course biased.

[OgraAnDun]

I am of course biased, but I've never seen a championship structure proposal that is more egalitarian than my own, nor one that would have less impact on existing provincial structures, nor one that gives so much kudos back to league football.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.0

I am of course biased.

Still the best structure that I have seen.

[Farrandeelin]

I am of course biased, but I've never seen a championship structure proposal that is more egalitarian than my own, nor one that would have less impact on existing provincial structures, nor one that gives so much kudos back to league football.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.0

I am of course biased.

Still the best structure that I have seen.

Would agree with the two Down men on this one.

[Esmarelda]

What do posters think of the fact that, according to the GPA, there is no appetite to get rid of the provincial championships, nor to have a second tier championship?

What I mean is, aren't the players one of, if not thee most important stakeholder in this debate? Doing exactly the opposite of what they specifically want is a bit of a slap in the face is it not?

[Jinxy]

The more I hear from players nowadays, the less I want to hear from them.
The games don't belong to them.

[Rossfan]

From the players should be seen and not heard school of oul shtyle Offeeshuls Jinx?

[thewobbler]

Re the provincials.

It doesn't actually matter what the players think. Or the spectators, or the media.

Any decision to change the Championship can only be passed at congress, which is formed in an overwhelming majority by county and provincial representatives.

The people who attend therefore would be briefed how to vote by their relevant boards.

Provincial boards will never vote for a system that reduces their power or relevance.

Counties will never vote for a system that has the potential to reduce their turnover, and no matter what how hard you try to convince yourself, an early stage match between counties on the opposite sides of the island will only bear a small percentage of the revenue of two neighbours meeting.

Counties will also never vote for a system that reduces their influence, and only an idealist on a crack pipe could envisage that a county would be better represented as a single entity rather than working as a bloc (which they often currently do).

Last not but least, even if somehow finance and politics could be resolved. The people who inhabit county boards - at least the vast majority of them - take on these vocational roles as they feel a belonging to the GAA. By nature, as they admire what has gone before, this will tend to make them conservative.

---

In summary, any proposal to remove or reduce the value of the provincials is a dead duck. It has an equal chance of getting passed as a vote to allow free admission to all championship matches i.e. it will never happen.

Even discussing the idea is waste of time.

[seafoid]

Re the provincials.

It doesn't actually matter what the players think. Or the spectators, or the media.

Any decision to change the Championship can only be passed at congress, which is formed in an overwhelming majority by county and provincial representatives.

The people who attend therefore would be briefed how to vote by their relevant boards.

Provincial boards will never vote for a system that reduces their power or relevance.

Counties will never vote for a system that has the potential to reduce their turnover, and no matter what how hard you try to convince yourself, an early stage match between counties on the opposite sides of the island will only bear a small percentage of the revenue of two neighbours meeting.

Counties will also never vote for a system that reduces their influence, and only an idealist on a crack pipe could envisage that a county would be better represented as a single entity rather than working as a bloc (which they often currently do).

Last not but least, even if somehow finance and politics could be resolved. The people who inhabit county boards - at least the vast majority of them - take on these vocational roles as they feel a belonging to the GAA. By nature, as they admire what has gone before, this will tend to make them conservative.

---

In summary, any proposal to remove or reduce the value of the provincials is a dead duck. It has an equal chance of getting passed as a vote to allow free admission to all championship matches i.e. it will never happen.

Even discussing the idea is waste of time.

I dunno. The state of the championship is becoming existential. Whenever the Dubs return to mediocrity will show how bad things are money wise. People are sick of the status quo.

[Zulu]

I am of course biased, but I've never seen a championship structure proposal that is more egalitarian than my own, nor one that would have less impact on existing provincial structures, nor one that gives so much kudos back to league football.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.0

I am of course biased.

It's a very good proposal thewobbler though there are some issues that were highlighted by posters in the original thread. My own proposal was simpler insofar as I proposed getting rid of the provincials and seed teams based on league performance with a straight knockout championship after 1 v 32, 2 v 31 etc. The benefit of that system compared to yours is that all teams are still able to win Sam after the league but it removes the provincials entirely.

However, your system addresses a lot of the problems we have -

Teams not getting enough proper/important games against opponents of similar ability

Teams being able to float along for most of the year

No definitive structure to our season so CB's can plan club games

No real momentum to our season so it doesn't really engage people

No pathway for teams to improve

Not important enough games at county home venues.

Your proposal addresses a lot of that, as does mine, and probably a few others. Why we don't implement one of them is beyond me!

By the way, I'd also play minor and U21 on a group basis of 4 x 8 with the top 2 qualifying for the QF. We bring lads through development squads and then give possibly one IC competitive game per year from 17 to 21 years of age, madness!!

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

I don't mind the wobbler's proposal but the GPA's one is probably a little bit better and would be a bit more beneficial to the weaker counties. With them getting to put forward one motion at congress as part of their new agreement, can it be implementing a new structure? If so could it get the votes. The status quo can't be continued anyway.

[haze]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993
Jim's idea is still in my view the current best proposal - 2 tiered but every team can still win the All Ireland at start of championship. It's hard not to acknowledge his point that there is an issue moving from 5 current trophies in the current championship to possibly max 1 or 2 in other non provincial based ideas.

[macdanger2]

It'd be better spending time trying to level the playing field between counties in terms of resources (and I don't just mean Dublin) to raise the standards of weaker counties and make games more competitive

[thewobbler]

It'd be better spending time trying to level the playing field between counties in terms of resources (and I don't just mean Dublin) to raise the standards of weaker counties and make games more competitive

32 counties. 1 big prize. If everything was equal, you'd see your county win the title every two generations. Or your provincial title once a decade.

Equality is shit too.

[trileacman]

Having seen the balls that the GAA have made of all the rule changes, the international rules, the scheduling, the deals with the GPA etc. I would be more than reluctant to change the structure of the championship now. It'd be grand if the smartest idea was the winner but sure we all know it would be some half-arsed, concocted notion from the head of Eugene McGee or some other old windbag.

The current structure is poor but I guarantee you the current bigwigs would find a worse alternative, almost certainly given our history to be a bastardised version of either the champions league or Heineken Cup with wealth and success funneled more and more towards an elite.

Wobblers quoted idea is the best I've ever seen but there's not a f**king chance something so wide ranging and original would be adopted at Congress. We may as well discuss where we'll go for pints next year when Carlow win the AI.

Jim is a smart lad and I for years have always had a big problem with narrowing the pool of trophies from 5 to 1. That would almost double or triple the level of dead rubber matches. Ulster, for all the faults with the football quality has a wide range of finalists in the last 10 years and every (I think) teams have been within 70 mins of the Anglo Celt in recent years.

One simple move I think should definitely be trialed is to move Dublin from Leinster. We've the precident of moving Galway to Leinster in hurling so why not reinvigorate the Leinster championship by taking out the big dogs and letting them slug it out in the two horse towns of Connacht or Munster. I'd even accept them in Ulster. Wacky idea but we don't lose much by trying it. If it rises too much opposition then it's easily undone. Wouldn't see it as a long term deal but sure couldn't it be trialed on a 1 or 2 year basis to rise a bit of interest in a failing championship.