The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Franko]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

Not so sure on that. As many dislike Keane and McGregor as love them. Dislike of McIlroy tends to have nothing to do with ego or braggadocio (of which he displays very little) and everything to do with what religious and political beliefs he may or may not have.

Bollocks... can't let you away with that.  It seems that it's fine to express a dislike for Keane/McGregor/any other sports star you care to mention - but not McIlroy.  If you don't like him it MUST be cos he's a fenian who likes themmuns.  I think it's you that's obsessed with whatever religion/politics he expresses!

I'm curious to know (sorry going off-topic) but what is it people dont like about McIlroy?

Been done to death on the McIlroy thread

[Walter Cronc]

Fair enough.

I think people are being a little over critical of Madigan. Of course he's no Sexton but apart from that one over cooked kick I thought he had a decent game. Put in some great hits.

Anyone see the U20 game? Gary Ringrose and Robbie Henshaw could be a very tasty partnership for the senior side in a couple of years!!

[Hardy]

I don't know that the underdog mentality is a national characteristic. I think it's just as likely to be a characteristic of teams that are not used to being successful. Success breeds not just success but confidence. Failure breeds fear, pessimism and lack of self-belief. There's also the huge factor that successful teams have - the knowledge, based on experience, of how to win. Often you need that in addition to being the better team.

There was a time, not too long ago, when my team went into every game expecting to win. That expectation was often the major factor in actually winning, especially when the opposition bought into the invincibility myth and couldn't imagine themselves winning, even when they were well ahead with the game nearly over. We won a huge number of games in those circumstances. Even the supporters were caught up in the self belief and there was a while there when we didn't just hope - we KNEW the comeback would come and we would win. I'm certain the team felt the same. And so did the opposition in many cases.

It's not like that now. It's getting worryingly like the opposite. Neither state of affairs is innate in our character. It's just the contrasting consequences of serial success and serial failure.

Modesty is a national characteristic. You have to laugh at kilkenny hurlers saying "yeah, we're not a bad team". 

Yes, I agree. But underdog mentality and modesty are two different things, as are confidence and arrogance. I was talking about the underdog mentality versus the confident, "we will win" mentality.

There's a world of difference between the braggadocio, trash-talking persona of a Conor McGregor and the self-effacing "ah sure we were lucky", but ultra-determined, self confidence of a Henry Shefflin.

[Walter Cronc]

I don't know that the underdog mentality is a national characteristic. I think it's just as likely to be a characteristic of teams that are not used to being successful. Success breeds not just success but confidence. Failure breeds fear, pessimism and lack of self-belief. There's also the huge factor that successful teams have - the knowledge, based on experience, of how to win. Often you need that in addition to being the better team.

There was a time, not too long ago, when my team went into every game expecting to win. That expectation was often the major factor in actually winning, especially when the opposition bought into the invincibility myth and couldn't imagine themselves winning, even when they were well ahead with the game nearly over. We won a huge number of games in those circumstances. Even the supporters were caught up in the self belief and there was a while there when we didn't just hope - we KNEW the comeback would come and we would win. I'm certain the team felt the same. And so did the opposition in many cases.

It's not like that now. It's getting worryingly like the opposite. Neither state of affairs is innate in our character. It's just the contrasting consequences of serial success and serial failure.

Modesty is a national characteristic. You have to laugh at kilkenny hurlers saying "yeah, we're not a bad team". 

Yes, I agree. But underdog mentality and modesty are two different things, as are confidence and arrogance. I was talking about the underdog mentality versus the confident, "we will win" mentality.

There's a world of difference between the braggadocio, trash-talking persona of a Carl Frampton and the self-effacing "ah sure we were lucky", but ultra-determined, self confidence of a Henry Shefflin.

What??

[AZOffaly]

I don't know that the underdog mentality is a national characteristic. I think it's just as likely to be a characteristic of teams that are not used to being successful. Success breeds not just success but confidence. Failure breeds fear, pessimism and lack of self-belief. There's also the huge factor that successful teams have - the knowledge, based on experience, of how to win. Often you need that in addition to being the better team.

There was a time, not too long ago, when my team went into every game expecting to win. That expectation was often the major factor in actually winning, especially when the opposition bought into the invincibility myth and couldn't imagine themselves winning, even when they were well ahead with the game nearly over. We won a huge number of games in those circumstances. Even the supporters were caught up in the self belief and there was a while there when we didn't just hope - we KNEW the comeback would come and we would win. I'm certain the team felt the same. And so did the opposition in many cases.

It's not like that now. It's getting worryingly like the opposite. Neither state of affairs is innate in our character. It's just the contrasting consequences of serial success and serial failure.

Modesty is a national characteristic. You have to laugh at kilkenny hurlers saying "yeah, we're not a bad team". 

Yes, I agree. But underdog mentality and modesty are two different things, as are confidence and arrogance. I was talking about the underdog mentality versus the confident, "we will win" mentality.

There's a world of difference between the braggadocio, trash-talking persona of a Carl Frampton and the self-effacing "ah sure we were lucky", but ultra-determined, self confidence of a Henry Shefflin.

What??

I think he meant conor McGregor.

[Hardy]

Sorry - dunno where that slip came from.

[Walter Cronc]

Was wondering

[lynchbhoy]

ironic how this is being pointed out that Ireland now 'play on the edge' which all winning rugby teams have been doing - esp England in years past. Its necessary if you are going to win anything!!


From Skysports

James Haskell reckons Ireland "got away with a lot" in their 19-9 Six Nations defeat of England but he could only admire the defending champions' approach.
The loss in Dublin on Sunday means England must hope the unbeaten Irish slip up in their remaining fixtures against Wales and Scotland to keep them relevant in the title race.
England head coach Stuart Lancaster and captain Chris Robshaw looked inwards to criticise after their first defeat of 2015, refusing to blame referee Craig Joubert.
And Robshaw's fellow England back-row forward Haskell also had no complaints despite believing Ireland had challenged the boundaries of the law book.
"Ireland got it right because you've got to play the referee and the conditions," Haskell said.
"They got the rub of the green. It's not about being streetwise. It's about playing right on the edge and seeing what you can get away with. And I think Ireland got away with a lot.
"We were trying to meet that physical confrontation, but discipline at the breakdown was difficult. I don't think any decisions really went our way in that area. Ireland imposed themselves very well."
"Ireland got it right because you've got to play the referee and the conditions" - James Haskell

England must regroup against Scotland at Twickenham a week on Saturday before finishing with a home game with France on March 21 - and they hope to place themselves in a position to strike should the title be decided on points difference like last year.
"We've been in situations like this before. We understand what's needed to get the train back on the tracks," Haskell said.
"This is a deviation. The boys will put their hands up and say we were beaten by a better side on the day. We weren't on the money, it's as simple as that.
"We've got two weeks until we play Scotland and whoever's in the team will have a lot of work to do, but we'll come out firing.
"There are afternoons you enjoy and then some pretty long afternoons when it doesn't go well at all. This was one of those days where it lingers and it's pretty disappointing."

[Walter Cronc]

As Liam Toland says 'Haskell looks better with his top off than on'...

He's a compete meat head who took up rugby.

[gallsman]

It's strange all right. We were discussing that at home when Sexton landed the conversion. England were there to be absolutely pounded, yet we all agreed that it would be a slog rather than a sprint towards the finishing line. When Brent Pope said after the game that Ireland would now beat New Zealand in the circumstances, I thought "nah!" It's not necessarily a criticism of the Ireland setup, winning the competitive games is all that matters. But it's a quirk.

The Tipp hurlers should be giving Joe Schmidt tips on how to feast on a carcass!

I remember Felipe Contepomi was talking about the Ireland sporting mindset. I think it was in the context of obsession with needing to be underdogs to perform.
He noted on Ireland's Grand Slam in 2009, that as soon as it became a possibility, Ireland went into their shell and squeeked out narrow wins over England and Scotland and then barely fell over the line against Wales. Quite simply, it isn't something our sportspeople wear very easily.

Unless it is a Roy Keane, Rory McIlroy or even a Conor McGregor. We Irish universally love those sort of confident types.

Not so sure on that. As many dislike Keane and McGregor as love them. Dislike of McIlroy tends to have nothing to do with ego or braggadocio (of which he displays very little) and everything to do with what religious and political beliefs he may or may not have.

Bollocks... can't let you away with that.  It seems that it's fine to express a dislike for Keane/McGregor/any other sports star you care to mention - but not McIlroy.  If you don't like him it MUST be cos he's a fenian who likes themmuns.  I think it's you that's obsessed with whatever religion/politics he expresses!

Catch yourself on. The specific point here was related to mouthiness and ego, neither of which accusation can be levelled at McIlroy by any rational person.

By the way, are you still steadfastly defending convicted rapists?

[Franko]

Nope, your point was very specific. Stop trying to weasel out of it.

And I said what I said on the Ched Evans thread and I stand over it. There's plenty who agreed with me. Is it relevant to this discussion at all?  Why do you keep bringing it up?  Another obsession perhaps?

[gallsman]

Nope, your point was very specific. Stop trying to weasel out of it.

And I said what I said on the Ched Evans thread and I stand over it. There's plenty who agreed with me. Is it relevant to this discussion at all?  Why do you keep bringing it up?  Another obsession perhaps?

I'm not weaseling out of anything - the primary reason a lot of people dislike Keane or McGregor, in my opinion, is the fact they are mouthy and obnoxious, even though they did and do back up everything they say in their respective arenas, even if McGregor has a long way to go before he becomes the superstar he believed himself to be. I do not believe the same can be said of McIlroy as it is my view that he always comes across as respectful and humble. Therefore I struggle to find the reason so many dislike him, with an obvious possibility the fact that he's not taigy enough for many on here. That may well be wrong, but at least attempt to offer a contrary suggestion as opposed to "go look in that other thread".

Of course the fact you condone rape isn't relevant, but as you tried to get a wee dig in, I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

[lynchbhoy]

As Liam Toland says 'Haskell looks better with his top off than on'...

He's a compete meat head who took up rugby.

Was never a huge fan of Haskell but he has turned into a v good player - certainly in the modern big hit game he has found himself at home!
As England's best exponent of choke tackling, he would prob be vying for his place on the Irish side if he was lucky to be a paddy not a tan!
England and France look clueless in terms of game plan and I can't see either getting their act together for the rugby World Cup.
It's a bit of a disgrace for England as they have great talent but no clue in organisation, tactics, game plan or team ethic. I'd have put cipriani on instead of Ford after 10 mins. Never a threat in the match whatsoever.
Don't think even Woodward could turn that rabble around.

[screenexile]

As Liam Toland says 'Haskell looks better with his top off than on'...

He's a compete meat head who took up rugby.

Was never a huge fan of Haskell but he has turned into a v good player - certainly in the modern big hit game he has found himself at home!
As England's best exponent of choke tackling, he would prob be vying for his place on the Irish side if he was lucky to be a paddy not a tan!
England and France look clueless in terms of game plan and I can't see either getting their act together for the rugby World Cup.
It's a bit of a disgrace for England as they have great talent but no clue in organisation, tactics, game plan or team ethic. I'd have put cipriani on instead of Ford after 10 mins. Never a threat in the match whatsoever.
Don't think even Woodward could turn that rabble around.

I think a lot are being harsh on Ford we didn't give them the ball and any time they did have it they got no go forward at all.

He wasn't great of course but I don't think many would have done better with the type of ball he was receiving.

Wales match is huge now as I expect Scotland to be a beaten docket come the last match! Wales could definitely turn us over if we're not at ourselves in any small way.

[Tony Baloney]

As Liam Toland says 'Haskell looks better with his top off than on'...

He's a compete meat head who took up rugby.

He is a total bellend but your comment makes it sound as if he took up rugby based on his size. He has played since P1 at which stage I'm pretty sure he wasn't 6'4" and 17 stone.