Alliance showing their true colours now

[T Fearon]

MR2, the core reason for sectarianism in the 6 counties is the artificial statelet set up on a crude sectarian headcount.Until that is addressed sectarianism will never be successfully tackled.

My point is that if you even wanted to start to deal with the problem,you would target organisations like the OO,not innocuous educational establishments that do not propagate sectarianism.

[Main Street]

  If schools are going to get taxpayer funding, they should be secular.
If churches want to ram their superstitious propaganda .....
Very hard to shift people's mindsets ...

Do people who have Religious beliefs not have to pay tax?

They do. And for their taxes, their children can access the education system, just like the rest. My point would be that if they demand a separate sector to accommodate their 'religious ethos', they can pay more.

Regardless of what faith a private school has, as long as it educates children to the standard the curriculum demands, then the state should be obliged to support those schools, to a similar extent that it supports state sector schools.
If parents want to have a Steiner secondary education, that school should receive the same pupil to teacher ratio financial support, plus building maintenance etc. Usually the Steiner people will do all the groundwork in establishing the school, making it work and raise extra funds. Such education establishments are less of a financial burden on the State, than 100% State run institutions. 
It's a boring world, if you just want to have a communist style imposed single State supported system of education.

[Maguire01]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

[Maguire01]

with no exposure whatsoever to any form of Irish culture.

Exactly. Leaving religion out of it, the State school sector in NI sees its role as promoting colonialism.

No. That's one of the few arguments in their favour.

And their fans see this as the objective of such schools.

How precisely does it do this?  Incidentally, did you attend a school in the state sector?

I spend a lot of time in secondary schools across all sectors through work - many, if not all state schools fly the union flag and some of the various other symbols of British culture I have seen to the fore include portraits of members of the royal family, plaques recognising past pupils in the British armed forces, not to mention careers in the armed forces actively being promoted as a career choice. I have never seen anything in a state school to indicate that Irish culture even exists.

If Catholic schools were ever to be replaced by integrated for the purposes of promoting a shared society then the current state school sector would also have to go by the wayside.

Have you ever seen a school in the north flying a tricolour?

Never

Apart from the one in Tyrone that Willie alerted us to. 

[Itchy]

If alliance were in the south standing on getting religion out of schools they have my vote. Especially since labour haven't the balls to do anything they said they would.

[Maguire01]

  If schools are going to get taxpayer funding, they should be secular.
If churches want to ram their superstitious propaganda .....
Very hard to shift people's mindsets ...

Do people who have Religious beliefs not have to pay tax?

They do. And for their taxes, their children can access the education system, just like the rest. My point would be that if they demand a separate sector to accommodate their 'religious ethos', they can pay more.

Regardless of what faith a private school has, as long as it educates children to the standard the curriculum demands, then the state should be obliged to support those schools, to a similar extent that it supports state sector schools.
If parents want to have a Steiner secondary education, that school should receive the same pupil to teacher ratio financial support, plus building maintenance etc. Usually the Steiner people will do all the groundwork in establishing the school, making it work and raise extra funds. Such education establishments are less of a financial burden on the State, than 100% State run institutions. 
It's a boring world, if you just want to have a communist style imposed single State supported system of education.

Does the University sector or FE College sector seem boring or communist.

[Olaf]

It might give rise to a "feeling", but what is the point in having integrated education, when the Orange Order indoctrinates kids from an early age? Has the status quo in education prevented both sides from interacting (reasonably well)

Integrated education is a red herring thrown in by unionist parties as a game of oneupmanship against "the other side". The real contributory factors towards community division and sectarianism, eg the Orange Order, paramilitary control of ghettoes on both sides etc, is neither addressed nor challenged.

The answer to your question can only be "yes".

Notwithstanding your personal  observations on the Orange Order it has little influence on the majority of Protestant children.

[Olaf]

with no exposure whatsoever to any form of Irish culture.

Exactly. Leaving religion out of it, the State school sector in NI sees its role as promoting colonialism.

No. That's one of the few arguments in their favour.

And their fans see this as the objective of such schools.

You must be having a laugh surely.

[Milltown Row2]

You say that Orange Order indoctrinates kids, I also say the Catholic church (like all religions) indoctrinates kids. There are a serious amount of prod kids whose families are not in the OO. My kids go to non denominational schools they aren't being taught to be prods or taigs, If they want to play Gaelic games they will at the club, if they don't (like a lot of kids) then I can't make them. Would I like the school to encourage Gaelic games? Yes big time, same way I would have liked the chance to have played soccer at my old school, buy hey no soccer allowed as we were a catholic school who frowned on those types of sports, thus denying us the chance to try other things at school level.

I think there is is a lot of money spent in schools to ensure there is both a catholic school and a Prod school in close proximity. Money wasted in my opinion

No, Im saying that the OO indoctrinates young adults.

It was TF that I quoted, you were just also on the quote below, but are you saying the OO indoctrinates all young adults from a Protestant background?

Tony does the Catholic church agree with mixed marriages? Will it also marry gay or lesbians couples?

[Olaf]

MR2, the core reason for sectarianism in the 6 counties is the artificial statelet set up on a crude sectarian headcount.Until that is addressed sectarianism will never be successfully tackled.

My point is that if you even wanted to start to deal with the problem,you would target organisations like the OO,not innocuous educational establishments that do not propagate sectarianism.

Don't know about you but one adjective that I would not use to describe educational establishments is "innocuous". These are the places where our children learn , interact with other human beings , form friendships , learn and develop social skills , develop sporting prowess."Innocuous"?- catch a grip.

[Ulick]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

[muppet]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

The middle ground has to be obvious but neither side will even pretend it exists.

It has to be either 100% Catholic clergy run schools v 'homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits eh schools'

[Milltown Row2]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE.

So why do we need different sectors then?

Some of us like the choice of not having our children educated as homogeneous Nornern Irish Brits.

I don't think schools teach children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, I believe they teach other subjects.

Waiting on a reply from Tony about the catholic church being inclusive, I suppose it will be here when I wake up.....

I'd like to see a poll on how many real catholics there are on this board and how many catholics don't practice the things laid out by the church

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

If alliance were in the south standing on getting religion out of schools they have my vote. Especially since labour haven't the balls to do anything they said they would.

+1

Would be nice to see Alliance start a sister party in the Republic.

[Eamonnca1]

I'd like to see a poll on how many real catholics there are on this board and how many catholics don't practice the things laid out by the church

I always was brought up to believe that being a catholic was to robotically go through the motions of chanting and muttering prayers, to sit, stand and kneel at odd times like some sort of ultra-slow-motion aerobics, to unthinkingly perform all sorts of weird rituals, and to listen to sinister middle-aged virgins pontificating on sexual matters that they haven't a f**king hope of understanding. The actual spiritual content was next to zero. Half an hour of every school day from the age of 3 to the age of 16 wasted on complete and utter bullshit.