A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[five points]

Sounds like justification of these things. Seems to me the only thing people promoting the Free State as a great country is that it's a tax haven for multinational companies.

They may not be unique to the free state but it gives you an idea how things work.

One where the needs of people are put ahead of vested interests, one where politicians are held to account for their decisions and abuses of power, one where governments strive to introduce fairer taxation on the high earners and corporations and one where the state provides the best quality of public services and facilities. In any form of equitable society the needs of citizens must come first and that' what we should aspire to.

The Republic has the second most progressive tax system in the OECD, after Israel.

The tax burden on modest earners is one of the reasons why the country is failing. Ten years of the USC has robbed working families of the ability to save for a rainy day, and for many with mortgages, long term illness or unemployment means a slide into poverty and eventual homelessness.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

So homelessness, corruption, massive wealth inequality, institutionalised coverup of sexual abuse, landing the debts of billionaires onto to citizens to pay back is the type of normal you strive for?

Corruption is everywhere that there is money. Inequality in the ROI is less than many places owing to a progressive tax system the GINI coefficient after tax is quite respectable. Some debts of billionaires were supported, but many debts also belong to those citizens in the form of pension funds and the like.

Sounds like justification of these things. Seems to me the only thing people promoting the Free State as a great country is that it's a tax haven for multinational companies.

They may not be unique to the free state but it gives you an idea how things work.

What sort of society would you like to live in, Angelo?

One where the needs of people are put ahead of vested interests, one where politicians are held to account for their decisions and abuses of power, one where governments strive to introduce fairer taxation on the high earners and corporations and one where the state provides the best quality of public services and facilities. In any form of equitable society the needs of citizens must come first and that' what we should aspire to.

A 32 county socialist republic where we would be all bare arsed and back driving banana republic bangers with dodgy red number plates be more up you street Angelo

[Angelo]

So homelessness, corruption, massive wealth inequality, institutionalised coverup of sexual abuse, landing the debts of billionaires onto to citizens to pay back is the type of normal you strive for?

Corruption is everywhere that there is money. Inequality in the ROI is less than many places owing to a progressive tax system the GINI coefficient after tax is quite respectable. Some debts of billionaires were supported, but many debts also belong to those citizens in the form of pension funds and the like.

Sounds like justification of these things. Seems to me the only thing people promoting the Free State as a great country is that it's a tax haven for multinational companies.

They may not be unique to the free state but it gives you an idea how things work.

What sort of society would you like to live in, Angelo?

One where the needs of people are put ahead of vested interests, one where politicians are held to account for their decisions and abuses of power, one where governments strive to introduce fairer taxation on the high earners and corporations and one where the state provides the best quality of public services and facilities. In any form of equitable society the needs of citizens must come first and that' what we should aspire to.

A 32 county socialist republic where we would be all bare arsed and back driving banana republic bangers with dodgy red number plates be more up you street Angelo

A small price to pay if it provides quality and indiscriminate healthcare and every family are able to put a roof over their head and food on the table.

Seems to me you care more about materiality and status than treating people fairly. We should be putting the focus on ordinary citizens not high wealth individuals and multinational corporations.

[Rossfan]

There won't be a "Socialist" Republic neither 26 nor 32 County versions thankfully.

About 2 or 3% of voters vote loony left anywhere in Ireland.

Hopefully we will have a more Social democratic and less neo liberal society after the pandemic is over.

[Angelo]

There won't be a "Socialist" Republic neither 26 nor 32 County versions thankfully.

About 2 or 3% of voters vote loony left anywhere in Ireland.

Hopefully we will have a more Social democratic and less neo liberal society after the pandemic is over.

Are you pretending not to be neo-liberal now?

[general_lee]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

[dublin7]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Have you seen the financial policies (if you can call them that) SF have proposed in recent years in the ROI? What they could do to the ROI economy is a scary thought 

[Angelo]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

They despise the working class and the poor and are happy enough to derail the betterment of society and provision of better public services so that they have an inferior class to look down upon.

That's really it.

[Angelo]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Have you seen the financial policies (if you can call them that) SF have proposed in recent years in the ROI? What they could do to the ROI economy is a scary thought

This is the type of lunacy you get from neo-liberals who vote for parties who destroyed the Irish economy little over a decade ago and enforced a huge national debt and austerity on its people, who have created a situation where homelessness has risen, the health service is a disgrace and very few of the young generation have realistic aspirations of owning their own home.

Look at this report today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2021/0126/1192005-property-study-apartments/

But of course you are worried about the hypothetical economic policies of SF rather than the parties with a track record of economic illiteracy and incompetence.

[five points]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Have you seen the financial policies (if you can call them that) SF have proposed in recent years in the ROI? What they could do to the ROI economy is a scary thought

This is the type of lunacy you get from neo-liberals who vote for parties who destroyed the Irish economy little over a decade ago and enforced a huge national debt and austerity on its people, who have created a situation where homelessness has risen, the health service is a disgrace and very few of the young generation have realistic aspirations of owning their own home.

Look at this report today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2021/0126/1192005-property-study-apartments/

But of course you are worried about the hypothetical economic policies of SF rather than the parties with a track record of economic illiteracy and incompetence.

Sinn Fein supported the bank guarantee. They also supported the huge rises in public spending that bankrupted the public finances in 2008, and the clampdown on house building in 2009 that caused the housing crisis.

[Angelo]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Have you seen the financial policies (if you can call them that) SF have proposed in recent years in the ROI? What they could do to the ROI economy is a scary thought

This is the type of lunacy you get from neo-liberals who vote for parties who destroyed the Irish economy little over a decade ago and enforced a huge national debt and austerity on its people, who have created a situation where homelessness has risen, the health service is a disgrace and very few of the young generation have realistic aspirations of owning their own home.

Look at this report today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2021/0126/1192005-property-study-apartments/

But of course you are worried about the hypothetical economic policies of SF rather than the parties with a track record of economic illiteracy and incompetence.

Sinn Fein supported the bank guarantee. They also supported the huge rises in public spending that bankrupted the public finances in 2008, and the clampdown on house building that caused the housing crisis.

They subsequently rejected the bank guarantee when more information came out about it.

Public spending didn't bankrupt the country. Financial regulation of the banks bankrupted the country.

It was the financial policies of FF/FG that bankrupted the country, ran the public health sector down, hawked off state resources and services to the private sector for a song and created a homelessness crisis by allowing vulture funds and private wealthy investors to come in and buy up residential property by the droves and then they failed to and continue to fail to regulate the rental market.

Blaming SF for the financial crisis when they never had power is some insane sort of windmilling effort to deflect away from those who had power and unequivocally responsible.

[armaghniac]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Because they would like to continue working?

[Angelo]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Because they would like to continue working?

On zero hour contracts where they can never afford to own a home? There's a reason SF are surging down south, you're too vested in an agenda to see how people's quality of life and prospects, particularly people under the age of 50 have been savaged by FFG policies.

[Rossfan]

I've read the last page or two and I'm just trying to get into the mindset of working people who would prefer to continue under a FF/FG government.

Because they would like to continue working?

All the ones working for multi nationals certainly plus their dependents plus all those who work for companies supplying multi nationals etc.
Not much point voting Labour or SDP any more, unless they join forces and get a youthful vigorous leadership.
Even then they will only be to make up numbers in a Coalition.

[dublin7]

FF were in power in the mid noughties when the economy crashed but none of the parties (including SF) were saying stop and in some cases were criticising the government for not spending more. SF want to use a so called wealth tax and the apple court case money to generate the funds for their other policies. Crazy stuff.

Unfortunately SF will likely be in power after the next election for the simple reason they aren't FF/FG which is a concern for anyone working for a mutli- national company in this country