A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[T Fearon]

All immaterial.Both Governments won't even allow a referendum,and Aherne,a staunch Fianna Failer,merely confirms the fact that a UI is not wanted by Dublin

[seafoid]

If there ever is a UI it will be a political decision between the uk and the ROI, which no doubt will involve the Uk and possibly the EU underwriting the economy to a point that it can stand alone, this will have long term benefits and savings for the UK. I have not seen a serious independent report on the economic case for a UI. All these calls for a poll at the moment are premature as a majority of nationalists remain unconvinced. The whining belligerent speech by Martina Anderson in the European Parliament will achieve nothing except confirming that she is a fool.

The problem is that SF can call for a border poll, but they have zero capacity to put forward an economic model for unification that people can believe in. There certainly is a case for the UK giving a good deal, but I would be worried that any discussion will be concerned with not giving Scotland a good deal, or a precedent for one, rather than behaving reasonably and responsibly in relation to NI.

Both ROI and NI run neoliberalism which assumes fiscal is pointless, economies recover quickly from shocks andinflation is a function of money supply. This is all nonsense. It leads to plutocracy and deflation.

Under a different economic system that favoured workers NI''s productivity would rise.
RoI Pension funds earn nothing today.They have huge bond risk.  I think they have 90bn. They could invest in NI.
It would need special tax breaks but it could be done.
The veneration of crap is the obstacle.

[T Fearon]

Seafoid,when will you learn? Unionists will not be persuaded by economics.They regard themselves as fully British,deep in their hearts and souls,and this will not be bartered for anything.You are deluded in your thinking that people here will calmly analyse a set of economic data and arrive at a rational decision along the lines of "we'll be better off in a United Ireland"thus abandoning a psyche that is at their core.

[seafoid]

Seafoid,when will you learn? Unionists will not be persuaded by economics.They regard themselves as fully British,deep in their hearts and souls,and this will not be bartered for anything.You are deluded in your thinking that people here will calmly analyse a set of economic data and arrive at a rational decision along the lines of "we'll be better off in a United Ireland"thus abandoning a psyche that is at their core.

So Tony we'll baptise a new economics metric in your name. The Fearon curve measures the sensitivity of Unionist belonging to falls in income. You say it is flat.

Economics theory is built around the idea of the rational agent who chooses the best deal every time. 

I know Unionist logic is often nuts but this is about money.

[T Fearon]

Why then wasn't there any move during the Celtic Tiger era on behalf of unionists?

[Rossfan]

Unionists by their very name want to stay as part of a British UK state.
If they didn't they wouldn't be Unionists.
They are now a minority ( albeit currently the largest one) in the 6 Counties.
When the Nationalist vote becomes bigger than the Unionist vote is when the real world starts to intervene.
The non aligned voters and the soft Nationalist voters will be the real decision makers in the Referendum.
As for Bertie Ahern would that slimy bolx who destroyed an economy ever fck off back to betting on horses.
He seemed to have been very good at it.

[seafoid]

Why then wasn't there any move during the Celtic Tiger era on behalf of unionists?

Because the UK was solid. It was ruled by more or less rational people.
What changes the dynamic now is Brexit.
WTO rules will not work.

[BennyCake]

Do you think Unionists will go quietly into a United Ireland? They couldn't even accept the Union Fleg vote on City Hall.

[Rossfan]

What sort of a United Ireland do you envisage?

[BennyCake]

Do you think Unionists will go quietly into a United Ireland? They couldn't even accept the Union Fleg vote on City Hall.

This is a good point, unfortunately the fleggers haven't realised that the North now isn't the same wee country that they and their parents grew up in, i.e. a single party police state in which they would dominate themmuns for evermore.

They need some of their so called leaders to introduce the concepts of shared power, shared space and a shared future to them.  But when they look up to Snarlene, Flegory, Wee Sammy, Doddsy and Sir Jeffrey I couldn't say that will happen anytime soon.

...or ever will happen. These same fleg protestors are those who keep these arses in power. If they go against their bigoted voters and actually look to make progress, like Trimble or Paisley did, it's bye bye to their seat and to their big Stormont pay check. Hence why nothing ever gets sorted in this cesspit.

[T Fearon]

Both sides need to wise up,including those who think SF will deliver a UI.People will not barter their nationality for economic benefits.If they did Northern Nationalists would have accepted partition years ago.

Why would the people of the 26 counties want to take on a troublesome area with all the associated costs,instability etc? I don't blame them.I think both Dublin and London should be straight with Northerners,admit that neither really wants to rule the area but as they both created the problem they will provide continued financial assistance and encourage both communities here to unite under a common Northern Irishness with enormous savings from shared services etc rather than the wasteful current duplication.

[Applesisapples]

Ignore Tony's usual trolling. There are a number of things to consider. Firstly there is a younger generation on both sides that don't automatically buy into either the union or a UI so therefore persuasion may not actually be that difficult. Then there is the prospect that in 10 years or so nationalist will actually be the majority in NI. That won't necessarily mean a UI, natioanlists at that time might be quite happy to be the majority and calling the shots. How will unionists react to that? As someone who would love to see a United Ireland I still have a number of issues I'd want to see resolved. The large block of loyalist working classes who could be persuaded to violence, how will they be assured? What exactly is this UI going to look like? How long after a UI will the Brits fund the transition, or will the EU? What effect will Brexit have on the opinions of all including Unionism? Aherne is being realistic, but things change, the NI I was born into is a far cry from the NI of today. Changes happen over decades not weeks, so Tony's trolling about the Freestate is just that Bullshit trolling.

[Milltown Row2]

Ignore Tony's usual trolling. There are a number of things to consider. Firstly there is a younger generation on both sides that don't automatically buy into either the union or a UI so therefore persuasion may not actually be that difficult. Then there is the prospect that in 10 years or so nationalist will actually be the majority in NI. That won't necessarily mean a UI, natioanlists at that time might be quite happy to be the majority and calling the shots. How will unionists react to that? As someone who would love to see a United Ireland I still have a number of issues I'd want to see resolved. The large block of loyalist working classes who could be persuaded to violence, how will they be assured? What exactly is this UI going to look like? How long after a UI will the Brits fund the transition, or will the EU? What effect will Brexit have on the opinions of all including Unionism? Aherne is being realistic, but things change, the NI I was born into is a far cry from the NI of today. Changes happen over decades not weeks, so Tony's trolling about the Freestate is just that Bullshit trolling.

Nothing wrong with that... if you're comfortable with how your life is then most people will keep the status quo.. questions will generally be where will i be finacially? I'd say most nationalist are comfortable with their identity and see themselves as Irish, being part of a UI wont change that

[johnneycool]

Both sides need to wise up,including those who think SF will deliver a UI.People will not barter their nationality for economic benefits.If they did Northern Nationalists would have accepted partition years ago.

Why would the people of the 26 counties want to take on a troublesome area with all the associated costs,instability etc? I don't blame them.I think both Dublin and London should be straight with Northerners,admit that neither really wants to rule the area but as they both created the problem they will provide continued financial assistance and encourage both communities here to unite under a common Northern Irishness with enormous savings from shared services etc rather than the wasteful current duplication.

Whilst SF are the main cheerleaders of a UI, they won't and can't be the sole arbiter on how this can be achieved. The likes of the SDLP, FF and FG have made small soundings in that regard they in particular FF and FG will have as much if not more say on how or what this UI will look like.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Do you think Unionists will go quietly into a United Ireland? They couldn't even accept the Union Fleg vote on City Hall.

If the fleg protest are anything to go by then it will all fizzle out pretty quickly

Initial rage


few months later no-one can be bothered