Single Tier Championship Restructure

[Hawkeye9212]

12 Provincial champions.

Kerry
Kildare
Westmeath
Mayo
Laois
Meath
Tyrone
Roscommon
Cork
Dublin
Armagh
Galway
Sligo

[BennyCake]

Hmmm...

They won in 2010.

Sligo and Limerick both reached their provincial finals in 2010.

Did they? Did they really? 

[Jayop]

The problem is that no matter what way you organise it, if the top teams have to play against the bottom sides there's going to be hammerings a plenty. Also with a round robin of 8 teams you basically remove any hope of a county like Sligo ever making another provincial decider again. Same goes for most counties that would make it once every 7/8 years. Now Sligo would have to finish ahead of 2 of Galway, Mayo, Roscommon or Donegal now just to reach a final. 4 D1 teams. They would then have to win that final to progress.

Basically giving them zero hope of ever going on a run like they did in 2002 through the back door beating Tyrone and they should have beaten Armagh who won the AI that year.

At least with the current provincial system they can get lucky with the draw and maybe only have to play one of the big guns to reach a Connacht final. Lose that and they have another rattle at making the super8 with a back door game.



I'm not defending the current system because it's inherently unfair. Just one niche example of the unfairness is the cumulative black cards leading the a ban. It's impossible for a Kerry player to have picked up 3 black cards before the Super8 because they will only play 2 games. An Ulster team could play 4 just in Ulster or of they lose the quarter final having played the prelim they could play 6 games and as such have much more chance of picking up 3 blacks. It's a farce at the moment.

I just don't know how to make it better without splitting it into tiered or at least make the provincial games stand alone and have the championship as a pure knockout open draw with 32 counties in a hat at the start of the summer. Win 5 games and you're all Ireland Champion. Same challenge for everyone and it's pure knockout.

[Jayop]

Expanding on that, what would be wrong with this?

Run the leagues off starting in March. With the provincial championships running concurrently.

March 1st - League game 1
march 15th - League game 2
March 29th - Provincial game 1
April 5th - League game 3
April 19th - League game 4
May 3rd - Provincial game 2
May 10th - League game 5
May 24th - League game 6
June 7th - Provincial game 3
June 14th - League game 7

June 21st - Provincial Finals
July 5th - League Finals

July 19th - All Ireland Round 1 - 16 counties exit championship at this stage and are free to run off club competitions at will
August 2nd - All- Ireland Round 2 - 24 counties are now gone
August 16th - All Ireland Round 3 (QF)- 28 counties now gone
August 30th - All Ireland Semi Final - 30 counties now gone
September 13 - All Ireland Final

Really, what's not to like about it? Pure knock out for the championship, fair for all involved. Weak counties can still hope to go on a decent run in the thing if they can avoid the big gun early doors. Open draw, no seeded teams etc.

The provincial competition are retained but separate from the AI which is only fair. The final is also just before the championship starts and with pure knock out all teams would need to be flying then so will continue to take it seriously.

League stays as is.

Intercounty season is boiled down to 5.5 months max and 3.5 months for half the counties.

Club players will get good summer football in all but a few counties.

[Hawkeye9212]

It's two groups of 4 or a straight knockout.

[Hawkeye9212]

Hmmm...

They won in 2010.

Sligo and Limerick both reached their provincial finals in 2010.

Did they? Did they really? 

Unfortunately.

[Zulu]

Expanding on that, what would be wrong with this?

Run the leagues off starting in March. With the provincial championships running concurrently.

March 1st - League game 1
march 15th - League game 2
March 29th - Provincial game 1
April 5th - League game 3
April 19th - League game 4
May 3rd - Provincial game 2
May 10th - League game 5
May 24th - League game 6
June 7th - Provincial game 3
June 14th - League game 7

June 21st - Provincial Finals
July 5th - League Finals

July 19th - All Ireland Round 1 - 16 counties exit championship at this stage and are free to run off club competitions at will
August 2nd - All- Ireland Round 2 - 24 counties are now gone
August 16th - All Ireland Round 3 (QF)- 28 counties now gone
August 30th - All Ireland Semi Final - 30 counties now gone
September 13 - All Ireland Final

Really, what's not to like about it? Pure knock out for the championship, fair for all involved. Weak counties can still hope to go on a decent run in the thing if they can avoid the big gun early doors. Open draw, no seeded teams etc.

The provincial competition are retained but separate from the AI which is only fair. The final is also just before the championship starts and with pure knock out all teams would need to be flying then so will continue to take it seriously.

League stays as is.

Intercounty season is boiled down to 5.5 months max and 3.5 months for half the counties.

Club players will get good summer football in all but a few counties.

Is the championship open draw?

[Jayop]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

[Zulu]

I think a lot of your proposal has merit but I'd disagree on seedings. For one thing, if the league and provincial championships aren't linked to your championship then they'll serve little purpose for many counties. This will mean that the vast majority of inter county games are little more than challenge games.

Secondly, we could end up with two semi final hammerings or worse again an All Ireland final hammering. Of course that can, and has, happened but we shouldn't IMO have a competition format for the All Ireland that has little to do with merit. Of the 32 counties competing for the All Ireland we have probably 26 or more that wouldn't be within 8 points of the top teams. We've seen it before, teams who won their province but end up getting hammered in the all Ireland series and the team and county ending the season on a massive downer. It might be great for a Sligo or Clare getting to an All Ireland QF or SF by luck of the draw but if they get beaten by 15 points then I don't think players or fans would take many positives out of it.

[Jayop]

Did the draw for the craic.

Round 1

Offaly V Kerry
Cavan V Kildare
Longford V Donegal
Fermanagh V Limerick
London V Mayo
Tyrone V Armagh
Down V Galway
Antrim V Waterford
Carlow V Wexford
Roscommon V Wicklow
Derry V Laois
Louth V Cork
Clare V Dublin
Westmeath V Sligo
Leitrim V Tipperary
Meath V Monaghan

Picking the winners of each tie using the rankings table on Boards...

Round 2 - some cracking games here. The top one being the pick. Also Antrim, Carlow, Leitrim all progressed from R1 thanks to a nice draw.
Kerry V Tyrone
Laois V Galway
Dublin V Cavan
Leitrim V Roscommon
Mayo V Antrim
Meath V Fermanagh
Donegal V Cork
Westmeath V Carlow

Round 3 - Kerry out due to being below Tyrone in the rankings. Westmeath and Meath through to the AI quarter finals.
Tyrone V Galway
Donegal V Roscommon
Dublin V Meath
Westmeath V Mayo

Round 4 - Semi finals - What about these for two cracking semi-finals
Mayo V Donegal
Dublin V Tyrone

Round 5 - Final
Dublin V Donegal

Lads, I dare anyone to say that wouldn't be a cracker championship. That was done pure random open draw using Random.org

Rankings to decide winners were taken from here and no heed was taken to home advantage etc. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110650184&postcount=923

[Captain Obvious]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

[Jayop]

I think a lot of your proposal has merit but I'd disagree on seedings. For one thing, if the league and provincial championships aren't linked to your championship then they'll serve little purpose for many counties. This will mean that the vast majority of inter county games are little more than challenge games.

Secondly, we could end up with two semi final hammerings or worse again an All Ireland final hammering. Of course that can, and has, happened but we shouldn't IMO have a competition format for the All Ireland that has little to do with merit. Of the 32 counties competing for the All Ireland we have probably 26 or more that wouldn't be within 8 points of the top teams. We've seen it before, teams who won their province but end up getting hammered in the all Ireland series and the team and county ending the season on a massive downer. It might be great for a Sligo or Clare getting to an All Ireland QF or SF by luck of the draw but if they get beaten by 15 points then I don't think players or fans would take many positives out of it.

Sure what has the league got to do with the championship now? It's a stand alone competition.

For me in this system your All ireland is top prize obviously, then the provincial then the league. Not sure how the provincial wouldn't still be seen as important. There's simply no way to feed the provincial system back into the All Ireland in a way that's fair.  They have to be split up.

Also, if there's seedings then the likes of Dublin will be playing a Sligo or a Leitrim in round 1. Are they better off getting a 20 point hammering in R1 or after having win a few games and getting their gander up?

[Jayop]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

[Zulu]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

What a crock!! What's the purpose of allowing teams get to the latter stages of a competition by luck? We all want to see new teams grow and develop into genuine contenders but perhaps you could explain to me the value of a format where the vast majority of games don't matter and teams who can't compete with the best get to the latter stages?

Senior inter county is the elite of our game, I don't see the merit of formats that are more like something you'd use for an U11 tournament. Not saying that's what your format is Jayop, just saying running elite level adult football like an elite competition isn't the a bad way of doing it.

[Zulu]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Maybe not all  the way to the final but certainly QF and SF are possible and if they did it by beating only division 3 and 4 teams, how is that deserving?