The Sunday Game

[Jinxy]

See here is the crux of GAA analysis. Do we want the bland Sky Sports style analysis which illuminates only the most ill-informed? Or do we want the truth, the facts laid bare even if it is hurtful to players who are "amateur"? Personally, I lean towards the latter, just. I think the criticisms in this case were justified largely and not over the top. Des Cahill showed he is a goon and Tony Davis did his best impression of parish pump politics.

As for the laughing during the Limerick point/wide debate Brolly was just laughing at the stupidity of Davis' argument. "The ref was sure it was a point" - is that why he ran in and consulted the umpires?

It was the best Sunday Game in ages!

would agree with that.

It doesn't have to be either/or fellas. You can constructively criticize without being an asshole about it. It's really not that hard.

I would agree with Seanie also, I thought it certainly made for great television.

With some contributors feeling that Davis performed well in his debate against Brolly I watched it back on the player. I really can't see how anyone thought that Davis performed well "I do like that they play 15 against 15" (so what, they are still boring to watch!) "I played half back and if I went upfield I'd be roared at by John Kerins to get back" (ancient history, zero relevance to the role of the half back in the modern game, plus, if he had charged forward, how in the name of god would he hear his goalie in packed Paircaigh Caoimh/Croke Park/Killarney!!) "John Miskella has scored loads" (not a single stat to back up his assertion).

Brolly is and always has been extremely arrogant and makes no apologies for who he insults. However, having read the full article from the gaelic life column, there is very little in it that he has got wrong!

Just to pick up on his point in relation to Graham Canty, he is absolutely spot on. How this man has won three all stars still amazes me and for my mind he is the single most over rated player in recent memory. His performances throughout 07 were poor (including being destroyed against Louth) yet he is picked at full back. Probably even worst was his selection last year, when Mc Kiernan was clearly the stand out No 6 of championship. I have a theory in this regard, there is clearly a lack of quality "old style" full backs throughout the inter county scene over the last number of years. So when big lumps like Canty or Kevin Reilly come along, who fit the stereotype of what a full back should have been in years gone by, the media commentators latch on to them and build them up to be something that they simply are not.

As for Davis..... without any shadow of a doubt the single worst panelist that the Sunday Game have on their rotation and it baffles me everytime that he is on as to how they can justify spending licence payers money on employing him. He offers no meaningful insight into the analysis of any game and is frequently just plain wrong!

Watch it pal. 

[ross matt]

See here is the crux of GAA analysis. Do we want the bland Sky Sports style analysis which illuminates only the most ill-informed? Or do we want the truth, the facts laid bare even if it is hurtful to players who are "amateur"? Personally, I lean towards the latter, just. I think the criticisms in this case were justified largely and not over the top. Des Cahill showed he is a goon and Tony Davis did his best impression of parish pump politics.

As for the laughing during the Limerick point/wide debate Brolly was just laughing at the stupidity of Davis' argument. "The ref was sure it was a point" - is that why he ran in and consulted the umpires?

It was the best Sunday Game in ages!

would agree with that.

It doesn't have to be either/or fellas. You can constructively criticize without being an asshole about it. It's really not that hard.

+ 1
McStay is a good example.

[snoopdog]

Davis wiped the floor with Brolly last night. Yes it was parish pump politics on Davis's point but when Brolly was on the recieving end he got flustered and kept changing the point... constantly referring to Cork no beating Kerry in Croker as if its breaking news. He completely ignored Davis's argument that the Cork half backs have scored more than any other half backline in the last few years.

No he did not. If you try to win an argument by quoting a made up fact that only wins because it can't be verified on the spot you just look like a spoofer when later it is shown you were talking crap. Davis confidently tried to act smarter than Brolly by claiming Cork half backs have scored more in the last few championships than any other team. An arrogant little declaration based on no fact at all except a desire for it to be true.

In "the last few championships" since 2008 Cork defence has scored 35 points of which 32 came from half backs. I have no time to check every team but I do know about my own. In the same period Down defence has scored 61 points, of which I believe 56 came from half backs. And we did that in 21 games to Cork's 23.Like I said I have no idea how many Kerry, Tyrone or Armagh (A. Kernan please stand up!!) may have scored. But this just shows all Davis is a spoofer, making statements and crossing his fingers.

Brolly is a wind-up merchant and I am far from defending him, but Davis is a tool, looked like a childish tool and spoke like a childish tool. No floor wiping there!

No wonder we cant defend if all the bloody defenders are up trying to hoof the ball over the black spot.
James look at the stats and you can be half way to solve the problem.

[tyssam5]

I find McStay the most annoying of the lot of them. Reminds me of a teacher or a curate, lecturing away in an extremely boring fashion. And what did he have in his big green binder the other week? Perhaps a scoring analysis of all the half backs in the country? Surely not, none of them would be bothered doing any prep work.

[PAULD123]

Davis wiped the floor with Brolly last night. Yes it was parish pump politics on Davis's point but when Brolly was on the recieving end he got flustered and kept changing the point... constantly referring to Cork no beating Kerry in Croker as if its breaking news. He completely ignored Davis's argument that the Cork half backs have scored more than any other half backline in the last few years.

No he did not. If you try to win an argument by quoting a made up fact that only wins because it can't be verified on the spot you just look like a spoofer when later it is shown you were talking crap. Davis confidently tried to act smarter than Brolly by claiming Cork half backs have scored more in the last few championships than any other team. An arrogant little declaration based on no fact at all except a desire for it to be true.

In "the last few championships" since 2008 Cork defence has scored 35 points of which 32 came from half backs. I have no time to check every team but I do know about my own. In the same period Down defence has scored 61 points, of which I believe 56 came from half backs. And we did that in 21 games to Cork's 23.

Like I said I have no idea how many Kerry, Tyrone or Armagh (A. Kernan please stand up!!) may have scored. But this just shows all Davis is a spoofer, making statements and crossing his fingers.

Brolly is a wind-up merchant and I am far from defending him, but Davis is a tool, looked like a childish tool and spoke like a childish tool. No floor wiping there!

Good stuff Paul. It's hard to beat facts in any debate.

Davis is a spoofer, floundering out of his depth. Brolly is an entertaining spoofer with occasional insights, and a rereshingly untraditional approach by comparison to the standard "I suppose, Marty" mealy mouthedness.

Now Brolly said that Cork half backs generally don't add to the score. He is a mouthy little so-and-so and says things in a deliberately objectional way. but that doesn't mean he is wrong and Davis tantrumous little display amounted to the same as a child sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting la-la-la I'm not listening to you. And like a child he started claiming achievements he knew nothing about and just hoped his blind guesses paid off.

Miskella has scored 18 championship points in since 2008. So, well done John Miskella, he does indeed have a good record. But Brolly's point was that Cork half backs do not score enough or support the attack in general. One man doing well does not justify the assertion that the whole half back department are good at getting scores. In 23 games without Miskella scores Cork half backs have scored 14 points, an average of just over one point every two games. Brolly is correct, that is a poor return. If Miskella has a bad day, pretty much there is no attacking threat from cork's half backs

[Jinxy]

Davis wiped the floor with Brolly last night. Yes it was parish pump politics on Davis's point but when Brolly was on the recieving end he got flustered and kept changing the point... constantly referring to Cork no beating Kerry in Croker as if its breaking news. He completely ignored Davis's argument that the Cork half backs have scored more than any other half backline in the last few years.

No he did not. If you try to win an argument by quoting a made up fact that only wins because it can't be verified on the spot you just look like a spoofer when later it is shown you were talking crap. Davis confidently tried to act smarter than Brolly by claiming Cork half backs have scored more in the last few championships than any other team. An arrogant little declaration based on no fact at all except a desire for it to be true.

In "the last few championships" since 2008 Cork defence has scored 35 points of which 32 came from half backs. I have no time to check every team but I do know about my own. In the same period Down defence has scored 61 points, of which I believe 56 came from half backs. And we did that in 21 games to Cork's 23.

Like I said I have no idea how many Kerry, Tyrone or Armagh (A. Kernan please stand up!!) may have scored. But this just shows all Davis is a spoofer, making statements and crossing his fingers.

Brolly is a wind-up merchant and I am far from defending him, but Davis is a tool, looked like a childish tool and spoke like a childish tool. No floor wiping there!

Good stuff Paul. It's hard to beat facts in any debate.

Davis is a spoofer, floundering out of his depth. Brolly is an entertaining spoofer with occasional insights, and a rereshingly untraditional approach by comparison to the standard "I suppose, Marty" mealy mouthedness.

Now Brolly said that Cork half backs generally don't add to the score. He is a mouthy little so-and-so and says things in a deliberately objectional way. but that doesn't mean he is wrong and Davis tantrumous little display amounted to the same as a child sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting la-la-la I'm not listening to you. And like a child he started claiming achievements he knew nothing about and just hoped his blind guesses paid off.

Miskella has scored 18 championship points in since 2008. So, well done John Miskella, he does indeed have a good record. But Brolly's point was that Cork half backs do not score enough or support the attack in general. One man doing well does not justify the assertion that the whole half back department are good at getting scores. In 23 games without Miskella scores Cork half backs have scored 14 points, an average of just over one point every two games. Brolly is correct, that is a poor return. If Miskella has a bad day, pretty much there is no attacking threat from cork's half backs

Stop inventing words Paul.

[lynchbhoy]

while David was saying that, I was trying to think who the 'scoring' cork half backs were.
not Ger spillane or O'Leary anyhow. Miskella has scored, but in comparison to the Kerry (O'Se) , tyrone (harte, Jordan,gormley), donegal , dublin, kildare , armagh, and other sides regularly contesting the AI quarter/semi finals each year - Cork are heavily reliant on a good sextet of forwards.
Most of the rest of the counties spread the load from forwards to midfield and to backs (indeed Donegal, kerry, tyrone and kildare have scoring corner backs and/or full backs !!)

thought the petty squabble between davis and brolly was a bit cringeworthy last night.
Davis was backed into a hole and Joe should have just let him talk rubbish.
its still better than that mcstay eejit.
I turned the sound off watching the hurling with wee marty commentating !

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

Bernard Flynn the wise oul owl should have been brought in as the peace maker......................... 

Ah let davis and brolly at, its great entertainment, alot better than lyons babbling on and tohill generally ratting, and hanging players out to dry...................... no time for mcstay hes a prune

Best analysts are orourke, spillane and brolly by a mile, the truth hurts for alot of counties when these lads speak, but so be it...............................sure us dubs are generally getting lashed by the pundits, I wouldnt take it to heart

Anybody else think brolly looked like he was just outta coppers or something, he looked fairly unkempt by his standards...................hes great entertainment, thought davis was gonna cry at one stage last night 

[Louth Exile]

See here is the crux of GAA analysis. Do we want the bland Sky Sports style analysis which illuminates only the most ill-informed? Or do we want the truth, the facts laid bare even if it is hurtful to players who are "amateur"? Personally, I lean towards the latter, just. I think the criticisms in this case were justified largely and not over the top. Des Cahill showed he is a goon and Tony Davis did his best impression of parish pump politics.

As for the laughing during the Limerick point/wide debate Brolly was just laughing at the stupidity of Davis' argument. "The ref was sure it was a point" - is that why he ran in and consulted the umpires?

It was the best Sunday Game in ages!

would agree with that.

It doesn't have to be either/or fellas. You can constructively criticize without being an asshole about it. It's really not that hard.

I would agree with Seanie also, I thought it certainly made for great television.

With some contributors feeling that Davis performed well in his debate against Brolly I watched it back on the player. I really can't see how anyone thought that Davis performed well "I do like that they play 15 against 15" (so what, they are still boring to watch!) "I played half back and if I went upfield I'd be roared at by John Kerins to get back" (ancient history, zero relevance to the role of the half back in the modern game, plus, if he had charged forward, how in the name of god would he hear his goalie in packed Paircaigh Caoimh/Croke Park/Killarney!!) "John Miskella has scored loads" (not a single stat to back up his assertion).

Brolly is and always has been extremely arrogant and makes no apologies for who he insults. However, having read the full article from the gaelic life column, there is very little in it that he has got wrong!

Just to pick up on his point in relation to Graham Canty, he is absolutely spot on. How this man has won three all stars still amazes me and for my mind he is the single most over rated player in recent memory. His performances throughout 07 were poor (including being destroyed against Louth) yet he is picked at full back. Probably even worst was his selection last year, when Mc Kiernan was clearly the stand out No 6 of championship. I have a theory in this regard, there is clearly a lack of quality "old style" full backs throughout the inter county scene over the last number of years. So when big lumps like Canty or Kevin Reilly come along, who fit the stereotype of what a full back should have been in years gone by, the media commentators latch on to them and build them up to be something that they simply are not.

As for Davis..... without any shadow of a doubt the single worst panelist that the Sunday Game have on their rotation and it baffles me everytime that he is on as to how they can justify spending licence payers money on employing him. He offers no meaningful insight into the analysis of any game and is frequently just plain wrong!

Watch it pal. 

Or What!!

Completely overhyped player, often thought Meath were better without him in the set up!

But we are getting a tad off point 

[ck]

I thought both Brolly and Davis were as bad as each other, neither were articulate, neither had concrete points to make and both lost an element of control.
Davis waffled in defence about the Cork half backs scoring more than any other "probably" "I'd say", Brolly was his usual sneering self and actually had no real point to make. Yeah maybe Cork dwell on the ball out the field but surely their are more finer points of the game for both to argue over? Like Donegal bringing the game into disripute! ;-)

[thejuice]

Yeah, for a second I thought Davis was going to back up his statements with some facts. I should know better.

[ExiledGael]

Have to say I quite enjoyed the Sunday Game last night. Don't rate Tony Davis at all (can't get his 'yeah they did well' brain freeze out of my head when he speaks), but I think Brolly is not far off the mark most of the time
He's not afraid to say what he thinks and isn't there to make friends. Would count him and Colm O'Rourke as RTE's top two.

[EC Unique]

When Brolly and Davis argue there is only ever going to be one winner. Brolly make a very good living out of arguing his point, he is a very intelligent man and the points he made about Cork were 100% even if a bit blunt. Davis well out of his depth with Brolly.

Canavan is doing very well this year for BBC and could see him being offered a regular slot with RTE. If he takes it or not is another thing.

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

O'Rourke is the best pundit.......................hes nail on the head most of the time, Brolly is brill................... Spillane in small dose's
McStay is a twit.................flynn has improved in fairness to him...............hes not bad on the radio commentary either...................how about whelo guys??............................rte beats tv3 hands down

[Denn Forever]

Canavan is doing very well this year for BBC and could see him being offered a regular slot with RTE. If he takes it or not is another thing.

Is Canavan not a pundit on TV3?