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A second consecutive reality check for us. Not realistic contenders, especially with the current management.
Two stamping incidents this year with a Derry team coached by Gavin Devlin. Coincidence?
Harte's success with Louth vastly overstated; Baker took Antrim from div 4 to div 2 and to an ulster final. Would any Derryman want him at the helm?

It's not current management, it was the injury list and playing 3/4 game with 14 men. Complete half back line gone, Loughlin, and McKindless off, couple of men ill during the week, and McGuigan's shot goes in with 7 to go it's a level game. That's to be applauded. Full compliment and we're absolutely contenders.

Tyrone men have so little to chat about these days a Derry loss is their victory! 

You better believe it! This team was going to win Sam! Time to show its not all big talk!

There is nowhere ... anywhere that anybody from Derry said we were gonna win Sam!!

Really? Was hype everywhere.. won the league and it totally took off
https://www.gaa.ie/article/mcgrogan-hopes-humble-derry-are-ready-to-bounce-back

Is there any chance the hype that built rapidly after their League success played a part in their provincial exit?

"Well, you'd be daft to say you don't hear the hype," says Derry defender Padraig McGrogan.

It's been a 5 year journey and they've continually improved every year culminating in back to back Ulsters and last year's semi final performance. The hype wasn't just from the league victory. This is their first dip but they can still recover from it.

In all seriousness, will Derry get out of this group?

Complete collapse in a year, and its not just the defeats, its the manner of them... a team on the other side of their peak.

They've only got about 2 players over 30

Disappointing game but I'm not too disheartened by the performance. It feels like everything that could go wrong did for Derry. Injuries during the 4 week break, stupid red card, gift of a goal. McGuigan takes his point Galway don't get a goal on counter. If our luck turns a bit we can still turn things around this season.

Twas always gonna happen that happen that Derry got a few injuries, but that's quite the burst...

All inured at training  not games, heavy training for that. We were in a better position after the league final

And no injuries to the Glen players which was what all the early season fuss was about. Just bad luck.

Not the group Armagh would have wanted to be in of course. It looks like it will be very tough. Westmeath probably should have caught us at this stage last year and they almost caught Tyrone too. That certainly isnt an easy game.

Going to Celtic Park is always difficult for any team.

I dont expect there to be a big margin between the teams in any of the games and so the final standings could well be up in the air. Topping the pile would be amazing.  If not, then getting 2nd and securing that home advantage is essential. 

I'd agree. Winning the group is vital.
Galway definitely favourites with the 3 forwards all back and they've have had another 2 weeks training banked

The bookies don't share your view. Derry are 4/5 for next week's game and Galway 11/8.

Tyrone be happy with that draw, short drive to ulster winner and should have more than enough for clare and Cork. Draw from hell for Derry.

Definitely a tough draw for us but the only advantage to be had is from winning the group, so from that perspective avoiding Dublin and Kerry is most welcome.

It's hardly a draw from hell. If we can't beat Westmeath we don't deserve to be in last 12. In terms of topping the group, I'd prefer the Connacht winners to any other province. Ulster runner up will be a tough one but we should have plenty of motivation to play either of those teams.

Has the Ulster Championship shown up that none of the teams are fit enough to win a all-Ireland?

It didn't need the Ulster Championship to prove that. Derry are the closest Ulster team but even at that they will need a fair amount of luck to win it. Someone made the point about Armagh not coping with players running at them at pace. It's not just Armagh most teams I've seen can't cope with that. I only caught the last 10 minutes of Armagh v Down, it confirms what I believe, that we are no nearer to Sam now than 10 years ago. I watched two and a half games in full yesterday, the Tyrone/ Donegal followed by Galway Kilkenny and the first half of Limerick Tipp. The difference in refereeing between the two codes is startling. The physicality and the hits in hurling would leave most inter county footballers in a heap. Oh and while I'm at it fair play to Antrim beating Wexford.

We have the same conversation every year. It basically boils down to are these teams good enough to beat Dublin or Kerry. Kerry have gone back a bit imo and any game between them Derry/Armagh/Donegal and the good version of Tyrone will be very close. Dublin are a level above but that is no slight on the quality from Ulster. Derry just about beat the Dubs in a league game so i think they'd have an outside chance. Donegal playing the way they are now won't cut it in Croke park imo, they defend far too deep will find it harder to create chances and will be slightly easier to pick off with more space. McGuinness is prob be aware of this and could try to move away from those tactics once they are out of ulster, if that's possible in one year.

Assuming the final is Armagh Donegal, I'm not expecting a spectacle.

A lot of people happy Derry were finally beat. It's the second time in 4 years this year has put in bad performance probably. Tactically we won't be that bad again. Donegal defended so deep that we were never getting goal chances. We lost the game on their kickouts but our shooting was the worst I've seen in in a long time as well.

[Really in a match we didn't lose]

Really in a match we didn't lose we shouldn't worry about a soccer penalty shoot out because of the GAA imposing it to free up Croke park for handy money, strange logic.

Yeah yous did.
Worse than that, it's a match you should have won and had every chance of winning, but bottled it.
Derry in the week leading up to the final had an unprecedented level of upheaval and that was evident in their performance. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
We had Brendan Rogers on a black card at the end of normal time and the and most of the first part of extra time. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
Yous were a point up towards the end of extra time and Rian O'Neill gave away a stupid needless free giving Derry the opportunity to draw level - and they took it. All Armagh had to do was keep their discipline and they probably win. But they didn't.
Armagh were given yet another chance to win in penalties - but bottled it again.

How many chances to yous need to be given to win a game before you stop moaning about not losing?
It was a losing performance from Armagh all day when they should absolutely have won. And you're complaining about penalties? If it went to a replay we'd have won again too. 

Maybe that's strange logic too!    

So, silliness aside, I'm looking forward to the game against Donegal with equal measures of excitement and fear - proper championship game. I really hope we get an opportunity to contest another Ulster final - we haven't played Down in a final for along time   

I don't agree with the narrative that Armagh should have won. We led that game the whole way through normal time, we were 2 points up on more than one occasion in the last 10 minutes of normal time. I remember Brendan Rogers fisted an easy one wide that would have put us 3 up in normal time with not long left and it would have been game over. Armagh were chasing us the whole game, had their chances to win it too in the end but from the position we were in we should have closed that game out in normal time.

This site is making the over projection of a Derry v Armagh final. I rather literally take it one game at a time, this Saturday could see us out on our ass very handy,

I was listening to Damian Cassidy on Highland Radio and he made the point that Derry are usually terrible in the Championship after winning the D1 league. Loads of examples of first round defeats, the last one being Fermanagh in 2008 after beating Kerry to win the league. Different era's and all, and we've never had a team as consistent as this one but food for thought.

Does Rodgers get the credit he deserves?

He's been immense for Derry the past 3 years.

He has outperformed Glass (and Glass has been good) without getting the same credit always pops up with big scores too.

Glass has probably been better than him this year so far though. Rodgers was quiet enough until the league final but again had  a massive game when it mattered.

He was nominated for player of the year last year. That's plenty of credit. I'd say if you asked most Derry fans after the all Ireland semi, they'd pick Rogers over Glass. Glass has been better this year but definite signs that Rogers is coming into form the past couple of games.

Awful game.
Fermanagh had their chances of goals but either miskicked, took the wrong option or just messed it up.
Armagh deserved winners - but goals aside, they didn't look overly impressive.
Missed a lot of frees. Didnt look fluid, should have scored more points from play given the way Fermanagh just kind of stopped. If I was from Armagh I'd be worried enough.

Jarly Og lucky to stay on the pitch imo.

Goals aside...not impressive (they won by over 10 points)

If you were from Armagh what would you be worried about? Down...seriously? Do you think their "supporters " will stay on beyond half time.. unlike last year.

Derry...of course we'd be worried..they're a top 3 team standing between us and a first Ulster title in nearly 20 years...and they've improved since last year.

Was Jarly's the only bad tackle in the game?

The 2nd half was a draw. Yes the game was already won, but the better sides would just keep going and rack up a cricket score.
For what it's worth, Armagh should beat Down and I've no doubt they'll give who ever they play in Ulster Final a game of it. But for me, they're not yet playing at the level you'd expect of a team with ambitions to win Ulster. It still might come...but against a Fermanagh side that were beaten 20 mins in you'd have expected them to pull away in the 2nd half. That's the worrying bit for Armagh in my view.

I agree with this. Armagh struggled to score points yesterday. It is often useful look at the number of scores for a slightly different analysis and a total of 14 scores isn't a great return against a very limited Fermanagh team. Armagh also got the bounce off the ball yesterday with both Jarly Og's goal and McKay's save. About time we got the rub of the green but no use in saying luck didn't play a part.

Down will be lying in the long grass waiting and ready to ambush Armagh. They are the complete underdog going into this game. They beat Antrim playing rubbish and I'd say they're nicely poised. Unlike Fermanagh, they are on the way up and need this win to get into Sam.

Armagh should win even with a middling performance, but Lavery will not let Down play with the same tactical naïveté as Fermanagh. Down will be stronger in the tackle and if they get the bounce of the ball they can spring a surprise.

I was surprised to hear Ryan McCloskey and others talking up the potential of a shock Fermanagh win this weekend. Thought that was highly unlikely. However, I can't understand why anyone is writing off Down!

People are writing off Down because they were brutal in the league final and not much better v a very depleted Antrim. I can't see them getting within 5 points of Armagh.

He wrote an article the week before the league final saying it would be a success if Derry get within 6 points of this amazing Dublin team. Since then he's made a few comments that it's only the league. Then on his podcast last week he said he'll support those Derry lads no matter what as they are giving everything for the jersey, it's just Mickey Harte he doesn't like, but a few months ago he was saying no Derry player is good enough to start the Dublin team. The quality just isn't there and processed football can only get you so far.

From a football point of view he wants nothing more than Dublin to hammer everyone and he can then somehow link it to Pat Gilroy.

As a Dungiven man I find it very hard to listen to him these days. He is a walking contradiction. He's not stupid and I suppose he is staying relevant as we are talking about him so he's probably achieving what he set out to do.

Some mental gymnastics being employed on this thread when it comes to 'peaking'. It seems that whenever a team wins a few games that it was down to them specifically targeting those games above all others. And when they lose it was down to them timing their 'peak'. All done with the benefit of hindsight or no inside knowledge of their training programmes.

These top county teams are so meticulously prepared now that I don't believe any side has any significant advantage over each other in terms of fitness or S & C programmes. Most of these lads now maintain a very good general level of conditioning all year round. If there are smaller advantages they will be found tactically or in other areas. But the primary advantage will still remain the quality of player available, nothing to do with peaks.       

Yep.
When Dublin beat Derry in celtic park Derry and Mickey Harte had bottled it, and feared Dublin. When they  trounced Tyrone, they were the real deal.
Everything they done was calculated and fluid. They were the masters of the game and everyone else were to be also rans.
They didn't beat Derry and suddenly it was all about the players that were not playing, but nobody will  identify   the players to be replaced.
Dublin will only improve and Derry were playing at their limit.
As in all matters the narrative must suit the bias.

I see Colm Boyle saying that today as well. Derry couldn't beat the dubs at 70%. The week before he tipped the dubs to win comfortably and now he's quoting the players missing. Dublin's biggest fans in the media are often the former Mayo players. I think by bigging up the Dubs it helps build up their team who could never beat them