Extra-Time - is it really just another match?

The Biff · June 14, 2010, 04:08:04 PM

I'm a little surprised this point has not raised a bit more debate since yesterday. The way the GAA can mix interpretations of just what purpose Extra-time serves:

1. It's like a new match, so any Red Card punishments imposed on a team no longer apply to the team (I know the players affected cannot come back on, but the team is no longer sanctioned).

2. It's not really a new match regarding Yellow-Cards. Remember last year where some Kildare player got one yellow-card in normal time, then another during extra-time. They were combined to amount to a Red Card and off he went. If this happens 10 seconds into Extra-time, he cant be replaced. If it happens 10 seconds before the end of Normal time, then he can be replaced. Go figure.

3. Didn't yesterday's events serve to give Dublin 5 fresh players during Extra-Time, whereas Wexford were limited to just three potential switches? Dublin kind-of used all 5 (Eamon Fennell resumed after a substantial breather) and were able to bring in their older more experienced subs when the opposition were most tired.

4. Luckily Ger Brennan's foul on Matty Forde was not really dangerous, although definitely quite "professional". However what if he "hypothetically-speaking" had been a bit more cynical and managed to take Matty Forde out of the game? The net result - Wexford lose arguably their best player, Dublin lose a man but only for a few minutes and are then back to the full 15. I know this was suggested before that a manager might even send on a late sub specifically instructed to "take out" a key opponent in such circumstances. How many of you can say "hand on heart" that it couldn't happen? How about in a local Club game? Would it be so hard to find a willing "hatchet-man" then?

5. If Extra-time is good enough for First Round and Provincial Quarter-Final games, then why not for Provincial Semi-Finals too? What's so special about a Provincial Semi-Final fixture (like Kerry v Cork last week) that Extra-time could not be considered to be played in the first game?

Discuss (70 marks) $:-\$

Hound · June 14, 2010, 04:12:40 PM

Quote from: The Biff on June 14, 2010, 04:08:04 PM
3. Didn't yesterday's events serve to give Dublin 5 fresh players during Extra-Time, whereas Wexford were limited to just three potential switches? Dublin kind-of used all 5 (Eamon Fennell resumed after a substantial breather) and were able to bring in their older more experienced subs when the opposition were most tired.

I'm pretty sure you can start extra-time with 15 different players to those who finished normal time. Then you can make 3 additional substitutions during ET. I was surprised Gilroy failed to take advantage of this (not sure whether Wexford made any changes?).

brokencrossbar1 · June 14, 2010, 04:13:55 PM

If a palyer is sent off he shoudl be kept off for the rest of the game, including extra time and this is something that the GAA should change. It is a nonsense rule and and should be done away with. I also think that all drawn games should go to extra time. Try as much as possible to keep games to a minimum and it would be easier to manage fixtures then.

Canalman · June 14, 2010, 04:25:39 PM

It is a fairly well established rule............. extra time is considered a "new game" (with restrictions).
The rule worked against the Dubs in 1991 when iirc Mick Lyons ( apologies to the great man if I am wrong)was redcarded and replaced in extra time. Yesterday the Dubs benefited.

Matter for congress 2011 maybe?

??

ardchieftain · June 14, 2010, 04:59:43 PM

So a team who are disciplined enough not to get any players sent off in normal time are deprived of their advantage if the opposition's indiscipline leaves them one or more men down. Ridiculous rule. What happens if a team is winning by a point with under a minute to go in normal time and the team who are behind have a man straight through 1 on 1 with the keeper. What does the chasing defender do ? He rugby tackles the man about to win the game, takes his red card, the team pops over the free and the cynical foul isn't penalised in extra time.

armaghniac · June 14, 2010, 05:05:13 PM

QuoteHe rugby tackles the man about to win the game, takes his red card, the team pops over the free and the cynical foul isn't penalised in extra time.

How would this be different if there was a repay?

Maguire01 · June 14, 2010, 07:16:51 PM

The bookies treat it as a new game anyway. Ladbrokes not paying out on wins for Down or Dublin.

Mario · June 14, 2010, 10:05:04 PM

Its a joke alright,

Imagine the situation:

Game is tied, my team has made its 5 substitutions, your carrying an injury and are very tired, you say to the ref how long is left and he says hes gonna blow it after this kickout, you turn around and punch your marker on the face. He sends you off, blows up the game, it goes to extra time and you get to put a new man on.

Ridiculous rule

Minder · June 14, 2010, 10:08:52 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 14, 2010, 07:16:51 PM
The bookies treat it as a new game anyway. Ladbrokes not paying out on wins for Down or Dublin.

All bets are 70 mins though Maguire unless you make a point of getting the "to qualify" price.

armaghniac · June 14, 2010, 11:05:46 PM

Its a joke alright,

Imagine the situation:

Game is tied, my team has made its 5 substitutions, your carrying an injury and are very tired, you say to the ref how long is left and he says hes gonna blow it after this kickout, you turn around and punch your marker on the face. He sends you off, blows up the game, it goes to a replay and you get to put play with 15 men.

Mario · June 14, 2010, 11:15:57 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 14, 2010, 11:05:46 PM
Its a joke alright,

Imagine the situation:

Game is tied, my team has made its 5 substitutions, your carrying an injury and are very tired, you say to the ref how long is left and he says hes gonna blow it after this kickout, you turn around and punch your marker on the face. He sends you off, blows up the game, it goes to a replay and you get to put play with 15 men.

You see our situations are not the same. For a start there is usually a week between the reply, by which time you could recover from your tiredness/injury. In the one game i can effectively give my manager another sub

Zapatista · June 14, 2010, 11:51:00 PM

Cork had an extra 20 mins home advantage on Sunday after the draw which wasn't afforded to Kerry the previous week. ET should be treated with the same rules any replay is. Yellow cards shouldn't carry through. It would make it simpler. The suggestion that players could be sent on to take another player out would be the sign of a terrible manager (ethics aside) in a one point game going into injury time.

On second thoughts maybe that's not as big a deal since if Kerry had of won the first day out they it would have been 70 mins to their benefit.

I still think it would be easier if the reset button was hit.

Bogball XV · June 15, 2010, 09:44:59 AM

Quote from: Zapatista on June 14, 2010, 11:51:00 PM
Cork had an extra 20 mins home advantage on Sunday after the draw which wasn't afforded to Kerry the previous week. ET should be treated with the same rules any replay is. Yellow cards shouldn't carry through. It would make it simpler. The suggestion that players could be sent on to take another player out would be the sign of a terrible manager (ethics aside) in a one point game going into injury time.

On second thoughts maybe that's not as big a deal since if Kerry had of won the first day out they it would have been 70 mins to their benefit.

I still think it would be easier if the reset button was hit.

I think it would make a lot more sense to apply the same rules that most field sports do with regards to extra time, that it is simply a continuation of the match, that's why it's called 'extra-time', then all the advantages that the dirtier team have by being able to force extra time are wiped out, they have to play the extra 20 mins with all previous yellows and reds still applying. Quite simple really (subs made already should also count).

EagleLord · June 15, 2010, 10:27:41 AM

I think this notion of extra time being a whole new game is an absolute disgrace. When a player shows indiscipline, he should be punished, he let the team down, the team have to struggle on without him. The punishment is that they have to play a man down. Going into extra time, Dublin were allowed to bring on fresh men, Mossy Quinn scored what? 4 points? Thats an absolute disgrace, sure theres no punishment in that at all.

Zapatista · June 15, 2010, 10:29:35 AM

Quote from: EagleLord on June 15, 2010, 10:27:41 AM
I think this notion of extra time being a whole new game is an absolute disgrace. When a player shows indiscipline, he should be punished, he let the team down, the team have to struggle on without him. The punishment is that they have to play a man down. Going into extra time, Dublin were allowed to bring on fresh men, Mossy Quinn scored what? 4 points? Thats an absolute disgrace, sure theres no punishment in that at all.

Then why should the same not be applied to a replay?

If you can't beat a team who are down to 13 in normal time then ou missed your opportunity.