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GAA Discussion => Local GAA Discussion => Laois => Topic started by: Mossy Bruce on March 20, 2018, 11:24:55 PM

Title: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on March 20, 2018, 11:24:55 PM
I was trying find the fixtures for Laois in the upcoming Leinster Senior Hurling Championship and couldn't find us anywhere. What the ____? With a little hunting around, I just learned of the "Joe McDonagh Cup." Boy, have I been out of touch for awhile. Anyway, here's the fixtures that I found. Please update or correct any mistakes.

2018 Joe McDonagh Cup

Round 1
5 May 2018
Laois v Westmeath

Round 2
13 May 2018
Kerry v Laois

Round 3
19 May 2018
Antrim v Laois

Round 4
2 June 2018
Laois v Carlow

Round 5
9 June 2018
Meath v Laois

Final
1 July 2018
Laois v TBD

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on March 21, 2018, 09:15:30 AM
Ha ha, love your optimism, Bruce - putting Laois into the final straight away! This will be the first year of the McDonagh Cup, but the unfortunate reality is that this is very much our level these days. Kerry have beaten Laois several times over the last couple of years, and we were lucky enough to beat Carlow by a point in the championship last year - a late goal being what did it for us. As you can see, we're not too far ahead of Antrim, either, and even Westmeath are capable of giving us the jitters. The only fixture there I'd confidently take it we'd win would be the Meath one.
I suppose, to be fair, it's more a case of these other counties having improved more than Laois have over the last while, but still, we're not in this group by mistake, either. You'd certainly hope we'd get to the final - but don't be booking that flight just yet!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on March 21, 2018, 02:29:02 PM
Would remind you a bit of the six nations with all teams capable of taking scalps of each other and home advantage being hugely important. 

Wouldn't be putting money on a grand slam just yet!

I know we would love to be competitive at a level above this but it is exciting that we have 5 tough matches and the chance of a competitive final in Croker. It would be a great achievement to win this competition for the first time.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Clubber Lang on March 22, 2018, 03:20:26 PM
Having 6 teams in the competition is one too many. I know they are reducing it next year but an imbalance has been created in the number of home and away games between teams which is highly unfair. Antrim have the perfect draw with Westmeath and Meath away and arguably the three strongest teams-Laois, Kerry and Carlow all at home. I would expect them to take one of the two spots in the final based on the favourable draw. Laois are away to Kerry in week 2 and then play Antrim away in week 3- will be a stern test of the squad. Finishing in the top 2 positions won't be easy and Carlow will hold no fear of meeting Laois in O'Moore park. The final places could easily go down to head to head/score difference.   
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: G@@ on March 23, 2018, 09:59:57 AM
Away to Antrim and Kerry will be a tough ask indeed.

However, the above sentiments about "but the unfortunate reality is that this is very much our level these days" are arguable. We are the only pure "Liam McCarthy side" that are in this group, all others have traded in the Christy Ring Cup.

If we win this out are we guaranteed Liam McCarthy status next year?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Unlaoised on March 23, 2018, 11:23:13 AM
Having 6 teams in the competition is one too many. I know they are reducing it next year but an imbalance has been created in the number of home and away games between teams which is highly unfair. Antrim have the perfect draw with Westmeath and Meath away and arguably the three strongest teams-Laois, Kerry and Carlow all at home. I would expect them to take one of the two spots in the final based on the favourable draw. Laois are away to Kerry in week 2 and then play Antrim away in week 3- will be a stern test of the squad. Finishing in the top 2 positions won't be easy and Carlow will hold no fear of meeting Laois in O'Moore park. The final places could easily go down to head to head/score difference.

Thats pretty much as I see it...antrim got best draw by a country mile and gives them a big advantage!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Clubber Lang on March 23, 2018, 01:17:14 PM
If Leinster team wins the Joe McDonagh then they are guaranteed place in Leinster championship for 2019. It kills me to say it but I would love to see Offaly avoid relegation this year and see if the structures as currently outlined are maintained. Be very interesting if a team like Wexford, Kilkenny or Dublin end up finishing bottom of the pile-would they be relegated to the Joe McDonagh for 2019.

Kerry if they will the Joe McDonagh would have to play-off against bottom side in Munster to earn a place in the Munster championship. Again if they did manage to pull off such a feat I'd be very surprised if a team like Waterford, Clare or Cork would accept being placed in second tier competition.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on March 27, 2018, 10:26:56 AM
Time to get the 'Laois4Joe' flags made up.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: portlaoisekid on March 28, 2018, 08:32:45 AM
To see  Laois hurling  captain lift a trophy at Croke Park would be something special.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on April 27, 2018, 12:41:21 PM
Any news from the hurling camp with the first game coming up next weekend?

Are there any injury concerns at all? How has PJ been doing in club games and any sight of Cahir Healy?

Need to get a win over Westmeath with two tough away games in succession after that.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on April 29, 2018, 10:02:14 AM
http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/284341
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laoiseabu on April 29, 2018, 12:27:42 PM
How did the challenge game against London go?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on April 29, 2018, 02:57:16 PM
Brilliant to see Picky Maher back in. We've lacked a decent scoring forward to contribute scores and not leave it all to Ross King. A huge boost for the championship.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on April 30, 2018, 10:41:40 AM
Didn't hear anything about London game. I think our panel will be strong enough to finish in the top two and get to the McDonagh cup final which would be no more than the players deserve for their efforts over the past few years. I think the panel has improved a little bit from last year. From the team that played Carlow in the championship last year we have added Podge Lawlor, James Ryan, Joe Phelan, Ciaran Comerford, Colm Stapleton, Ben Conroy(Injured), Cha Dwyer(Injured), Willie Dunphy (Injured), PJ Scully(Injured)
Picky got injured that day too. Hopefully Cahir Healy will come into the reckoning at some stage, Aaron Dunphy started that day but is out injured at present. Is Dwane Palmer back with the squad, he had been playing for Camross during April.

Laois V Carlow 2017
Enda Rowland; Dwane Palmer, Leigh Bergin, Lee Cleere; Eric Killeen, Matthew Whelan, Ciaran Collier; Ross King, Paddy Purcell; Jack Kelly, Stephen Maher, Sean Downey; Mark Kavanagh, Neil Foyle, Aaron Dunphy
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 03, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
Any ideas for the team for Saturday?

Should be a strong pick for Kelly if everyone is available bar Healy and a couple of others. Forwards should certainly be strong with Picky back. The backs have been fairly consistant all year so shouldn't be any surprises there.

Having the likes of Picky and Palmer back from injury is a big boost. Healy can't be too far away either.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 03, 2018, 12:35:34 PM
Any ideas for the team for Saturday?

Should be a strong pick for Kelly if everyone is available bar Healy and a couple of others. Forwards should certainly be strong with Picky back. The backs have been fairly consistant all year so shouldn't be any surprises there.

Having the likes of Picky and Palmer back from injury is a big boost. Healy can't be too far away either.

Pity to see young Hartnett leave the panel. I thought he looked the part during the league against some serious opposition at times. Is Palmer back with the county? Not named on the official panel. Would be great to have as a corner back option.

I think it is all about how many of our players have found form and are up to the pace. Would be great to see lads like Cha, Mark Kavanagh, PJ Scully and Ben Conroy step up from the league.

Westmeath will be a serious challenge. We beat them narrowly last year and they are back-boned by the 2 under-21 teams that beat Kilkenny 2 years ago and ran them close last year. Last years team beat our U21s which had a lot of our senior panel involved. Not talking them up for the sake of it, they have some fine hurlers.

Going to be nice weather on Saturday and exciting to be heading to O'Moore Park. Should bring out the crowds. Important game.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 03, 2018, 02:37:07 PM
Pity about Hartnett, any particular reason for leaving?

I read where Healy won't be back with the county this year but Palmer would be a huge addition. Joe Phelan can fill the corner spot but as you say Palmer would be a very decent option for the corner or as cover for some of the other back positions. Can he still be brought back onto the panel?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 03, 2018, 03:50:59 PM
Pity about Hartnett, any particular reason for leaving?

I read where Healy won't be back with the county this year but Palmer would be a huge addition. Joe Phelan can fill the corner spot but as you say Palmer would be a very decent option for the corner or as cover for some of the other back positions. Can he still be brought back onto the panel?

I wonder is he just getting game time with Camross before he goes back with county? Was a tough injury. Could never fault him for commitment in the past.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 04, 2018, 09:57:24 PM
Has the starting fifteen for tomorrow's match been announced, yet?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Heshs Umpire on May 05, 2018, 09:23:58 AM
Has the starting fifteen for tomorrow's match been announced, yet?
Yes. You'll find it on laoisgaa.ie
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 05, 2018, 11:57:03 AM
What a day. Can't beat championship. I hope all the hard work will pay of today. Strong team and a few subs who can make an impact. Will be tough but I fancy our chances.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on May 05, 2018, 05:43:13 PM
I've been very quiet on here recently but Eamon Kelly should not be Laois manager.

Fair play to Westmeath; deserved winners. I hope we meet them again.

Hard luck to our lads. They deserve better!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: G@@ on May 05, 2018, 05:53:19 PM
Laois 1-21 v 2-21 Westmeath.

Laois only hurled for the last fifteen minutes of the first half when they were immense, otherwise Laois looked switched off and expecting the result to happen by itself. Though our full back line was woeful throughout.

A disappointing result and we really have it all to do in the next fortnight with two games on the road to arguably the better two teams in this group - Kerry and Antrim. One more slip up and we'll be looking for favourable results in other games that we won't be playing in. This is finely balanced now.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on May 05, 2018, 06:13:25 PM
I've been very quiet on here recently but Eamon Kelly should not be Laois manager.

He won't rock the boat and the CB know what they are getting. He will be there for as long as he wants it.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on May 05, 2018, 06:32:14 PM
I've been very quiet on here recently but Eamon Kelly should not be Laois manager.

He won't rock the boat and the CB know what they are getting. He will be there for as long as he wants it.

Let's be honest. This is the issue.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: SpeculativeEffort on May 05, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
We were annihilated in the air and in the scraps. Westmeath hb line dominated throughout especially no.7 whereas our hb line were in trouble with Clarke and Mitchell especially in 2nd half. Couldnt win our own puck outs and lacked fight. Hopefully we can turn this around.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on May 05, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
When Merman makes a statement like that, you know things are bad.

I don’t know much about the setup but I came to the same conclusion at the match today. For me, there were two main signs that the management is not up to it. First, the team just didn’t look motivated. Westmeath just worked so much harder all over the field. If the team isn’t properly motivated, you can’t look beyond the manager. The second thing is tactics. I just cannot understand how, in 70 minutes, they couldn’t come up with a strategy to deal with the opposition puckouts.

I have to say I have never seen a Laois hurling team to be so lacking in passion.

If you compare that with what we saw from Cheddar’s team against Offaly just a few years ago, the difference is remarkable. And we probably have better players now....


Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: CruiseCigar on May 05, 2018, 09:35:45 PM
What happened today lads.before this game started there was optimism of lifting a cup in croke Park. I did not see that result coming today. Thought the team would be really up for it.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on May 05, 2018, 10:04:06 PM
Scores conceded has been our biggest issue for the last two seasons.
Cheddar was laughed at in some quarters for trying to address it.

Conceding 2-21.....to Westmeath.....games are generally not winnable from that position.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laoiseabu on May 05, 2018, 11:09:17 PM
There's a biffo managing our team . Please help us
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on May 05, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
There's a biffo managing our team . Please help us

He’s a Tipperary man
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on May 05, 2018, 11:22:02 PM
No biffo but he's a bluffer. And the players know it.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laoiseabu on May 05, 2018, 11:45:34 PM
Well he managed Offaly so that's enough for me 😂😂 On a more serious note it's hard to see where Eamonn has improved this team since Cheddar
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 06, 2018, 01:50:17 AM
I was listening to the first half of the match as I was getting ready for work—the last few minutes of the first half were awesome. Then arrived at work about five minutes before the end of the match. My god what a shift in the game. :'( :'( :'(

These next two away matches are going to be rough. :-\
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on May 06, 2018, 10:11:08 AM
Worst performance in a long time. A sickener. As Giovanni said, why on earth could we not work out a way of countering their tactics by half-time? It just seems as if Westmeath - who were dire in the Div 2 final against Carlow - spent April actually DOING something, like coming up w/ a strategy. They looked far sharper from the very start. There's no reason for our lads to underestimate these teams or this competition.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on May 06, 2018, 10:23:07 AM
Too much talk of hurling in croke park and then getting a crack at the big boys. They'd be better off concentrating on the job in hand.
Do or die next weekend in Kerry in what will be a very difficult game.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 06, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Would agree with most of what has been posted about the match.

Firstly, the set up was a disaster. In particularly our puck outs on either end. We just launched ball after ball into the air and they used their sweeper system to mop it up. How many times did one of their half backs win the ball uncontested? And we never changed the system even after 20 minutes when it was obvious it was failing spectacularly. Westmeath just passed the ball to their free man, then to a runner in the middle and voila, they were on the attack. We never pushed up on their men and it made us look very stupid. This has to be blamed fully on management.

Secondly, as a couple have said, passion. Most of the players played well within their capabilities and didn't fight as they should have. There was no urgency except from a few players. We were well off the pace. The same players would not give up on balls so easily or allow the opposition to catch balls over their heads playing for their clubs. I would say this is the fault of both management and the players, particularly the leaders. All too casual. They were not mentally prepared for what was thrown at them, unlike Westmeath who looked like they were playing a championship match.

Thirdly, our ability. Our skill levels are very poor in general. The most obvious gap is the ability to win a ball in the air but not just that. Falling over balls on the ground and not reacting to breaking balls at speed seems to be normal for most of our hurlers. Sloppy stuff. We lost nearly every contest yesterday and when a ball went between a Laois man and a Westmeath man in the air or the ground you could be sure it would be a maroon jersey that came away with the ball. The speed at which we play the game is just way too slow. What the hell are they doing in training?

Fair play to Westmeath, they were a much better hurling team than us and surely should be favourites for the competition.

On the players, here is my short summary.

Rowland: Great distance on puck outs but needs to use his brain. Regardless of instructions, should have seen what was happening in front of him and tried some shorter, more directed puckouts.
Phelan: Roasted
Bergin: Should have done better for first goal but was very solid otherwise. One of our better players.
Cleere: Held his own. Hope he is ok.
Lalor: Mixed the good with the bad. Mopped up lots of ball in first half.
Matthew: Did well enough. Has that bit of cuteness and experience.
Killeen: struggled with pace. Should be better in the air.
Purcell: anonymous for most of the game. Couple of flashes of how he was last year but didn't look interested.
Corby: one great score but didn't compete for possession well.
Ryan: ok in parts, some great passes. Again, played well within himself.
Cha: best he has been this year but went missing for long spells. Some super scores.
Conroy: looked dangerous at times but tends to waste too many chances
Ross: anonymous from play. Good on frees. Seems wasted in the corner.
Neil: our best player yesterday. Always dangerous and was up for the challenge. Hope he recovers soon.
Willie: couldn't get into it.

Of the subs, Picky looked fit and dangerous and made a difference. Ryan Mullaney is in good condition and got on top of his position quite quickly and Cían Taylor looked sharp and should be given more time on that team.

Our championship could be over next Saturday so these lads will have to dig deep and produce a result down south. I'd say Kerry, Antrim and Carlow are rightfully licking their lips. I hope we can respond.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Bud Wiser on May 06, 2018, 10:38:35 AM
Looking at the social media pages in Westmeath there seems to have been two different approaches to this game, Westmeath manager said "during meetings all week the importance of everyone stepping u including the subs was discussed" and the players interviewed after the match refer to a "motivational meeting held on Friday night".  I don't want to be butting in here but it seems to me, and I hope I am wrong, that the lads are putting in the work and training hard and giving their all for the county. However,  there are very little team performances, it used to be a sending off was an excuse for playing with 14 men.  If the lads are giving it their all in training that is no use unless they are motivated like they were when they played Galway last year.  I believe they are not motivated enough to get off a bus much less break a hurl and the team deserves better. 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 06, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
I see that Kerry had just lost to Carlow near the end.

Kerry will be on home ground and hungry, next week. I hope our lads will be hungrier.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Bud Wiser on May 08, 2018, 09:39:32 AM
Last week on here ye were talking about lifting cups in Croke Park, now ye are talking about being doubtful of beating a Kerry hurling team that is after being beaten by Carlow.  So, as the horse said to the jockey "Is it you that's getting heavy or is it me that's getting slow?"  Are the other counties after improving that much?  Or have Laois dis-improved that much since we played Galway. At least when players were getting sent off and everyone was complaining about indiscipline those players were getting sent off because they were motivated enough in the first place.  So what is wrong? It's not a population issue because if there was all out war the hurling populations of Carlow, Kerry and Antrim are not going to take over the country.  If the players are giving their all in terms of commitment to training, and I believe they are, then it is either one of two other problems. Either the sideline is wrong or the problem that exists in a lot of other counties is wrong where the county board divert all their interest to football and don't give a flying about hurling or where they end up. Maybe both.

And, I am not calling for the managers head here, not at all.  That is the easy thing to do, especially from a keyboard. What I am saying is, identify the problem. No manager is perfect in all areas unless he has a proper support team around him, unless there is a solid wall that says, "I am in charge and I ain't listening to anyone else"  Same for players and it is good to see on here that,  unlike other forums, there is very little singling out of named players and judgement's being passed and that posters for the most part appreciate the efforts they are making.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 08, 2018, 10:36:53 AM
I only made it to the last 10 minutes of the game as there was a crash on the motorway and traffic was at a standstill. When I did finally get in to O'Moore Park the score was level. From the bit I saw Westmeath seemed to be the team with plenty of space. They had no problem finding a man with a short puckout and yet Rowland sent a couple down in Cha's direction where he was marked by a lad much taller than him.
Ross King for all his accuracy didn't score anything from play either. Laois looked flat and there didn't seem to be too much joined up thinking. Westmeath were winning the close quarter battles also.
Very disappointing particularly the fact that Laois couldn't find a way to get on top. One cameo was PJ Scully in the corner chasing down a ball and he was shunted out over the end line near the end. There was no other Laois man in there using his physicality to help Scully but there was 2 or 3 Westmeath lads. Westmeath were not great on the day and hit a lot of wides but they were hungrier for it.
Has to be complacency because we have performed at a higher level in the league and got a great result up in Antrim last day. I cannot comment on the manager as I have no inside line and can only go on what I see but I don't agree with Kelly having to sit in the stand during a game. It's a pet gripe of mine more than anything else but what's the point having someone else on the sideline encouraging etc while the manager sits in the stand.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 08, 2018, 10:55:45 AM
I don't think there are any great surprises.

Our best performances in the league were against Galway and Antrim. We ran Galway close but so did Antrim and a few other teams.

We are at our level in the McDonagh cup and need to be at our best to succeed in it. Westmeath and Carlow have both beaten us at U21 level and have some very fine hurlers. We barely beat Antrim on both days. To answer your question Bud Wiser, yes, the other counties are after improving that much and are making at least as much progress as us. You could argue moreso when you looked at our skill level compared to Westmeath on Saturday.

As I said on my earlier post, on third of the problem was the tactical plan - it was shockingly poor and wasn't changed when it failed spectacularly. One third was the hunger and attitude and the final third was ability. We don't have enough good players at this level. Westmeath had more.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 08, 2018, 11:10:01 AM
blueandwhite1 I wouldn't agree that Westmeath have more better players than us. They had as much difficulty at times rising the ball or holding onto possession. It was hunger and tactics for me. The extra man at the back allowed them time to get the ball to the forwards whereas we pumped balls down on top of those same backs.
Yes Westmeath have performed better at U21 level but many of our players performed better at minor level than them. Ok you can say there's a difference and U21 level has been disasterous from a Laois point of view but I don't agree that Westmeath are that much better player wise.
Anyhow there are 4 games left to get things right and maybe this result will push them on. 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Clubber Lang on May 08, 2018, 05:54:04 PM
The biggest weakness to this Laois side is a lack of physical strength. This concern was noted by many after the Offaly league game. This current Laois team will always be bullied by other teams with physically bigger, more aggressive players. Westmeath contained more players able to win 50/50 battles and many of their scores came from being able to claim the sliotar in the air, break tackles easier and physically being able to dominate their direct opponent. The loss of players like Healy, Hyland, fitzpatrick, stapleton and Delaney to name a few is still being felt within the county-it is a pity that the current squad hadn't a couple of more years playing with the likes of the named players at county level. Each of them were leaders on the field and would have matched the physical challenge put down to them by any opponent. They would have added greatly to the development of the lads now coming through. The majority of Laois' starting team have lost at under 21 level to Carlow and Westmeath over the last number of years. Losing at the weekend to Westmeath should not be viewed as a shock result. With two teams relegated from the Joe McDonagh this year we will need to get our act together quickly. Meath will be favourites for the chop but anyone of the remaining teams could join them. Playing Christy Ring against Down, Mayo and Kildare in 2019 is not a proposition I want to consider.   
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on May 08, 2018, 08:02:23 PM
It's just hard to see what Kelly is bringing to the table right now.

He's not bringing the level of intense organisation and commitment that Cheddar demanded; intensity levels we were told needed to be tempered.
I have seen very little from a tactical side; in fact, I'd say we've regressed even since last year.
S & C conditioning? Skills development? Style of play? Passion? Players committing and staying with the panel?
There just doesn't seem to be a vision for where we are going; he doesn't seem challenged to find one.

I simply don't believe Eamon Kelly commands the respect nor demands enough of the players. He comes in, does a job and slips away safe in the knowledge that he's upsetting nobody and sailing along nicely under the radar. I doubt his name is hardly ever mentioned at county committee level. When he leaves, he'll say a few nice things about the lads, say it was a pity he couldn't get a full hand to deal with and slip on to his next job wherever it might be.

I'm sorry that I appear so negative but I think anyone who looks at my posts objectively will see that I don't usually single out individuals lightly.
I'm also acutely aware that there are structural issues within our juvenile structures and there is a lack of real depth to our pool of senior players but I still think we are under-achieving., even with the panel we do have available.

Looking forward, Kerry are likely to score quite freely against us and it should be high-scoring. I don't think they're world-beaters and if one or two of our forwards hit anything like their best form then we have a chance. Picky back can only be a help but I'm worried about the form of King and Dunphy.

Antrim away looks a tough ask but we've a good enough record over them in recent years.

We'll know a lot about where we are in the next fortnight.

I don't actually believe we're dead and buried but I can't say I'm optimistic either. I hope the lads put absolutely everything into the Kerry game; leave nothing behind and we'll see then if we can carry that momentum up north.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 08, 2018, 09:00:06 PM
blueandwhite1 I wouldn't agree that Westmeath have more better players than us. They had as much difficulty at times rising the ball or holding onto possession. It was hunger and tactics for me. The extra man at the back allowed them time to get the ball to the forwards whereas we pumped balls down on top of those same backs.
Yes Westmeath have performed better at U21 level but many of our players performed better at minor level than them. Ok you can say there's a difference and U21 level has been disasterous from a Laois point of view but I don't agree that Westmeath are that much better player wise.
Anyhow there are 4 games left to get things right and maybe this result will push them on.

I wouldn't say they are head and shoulders better or anything, but certainly over the 70 minutes they were better in the air and on the ground in the 1 to 1 battles. Yes, size and age has a lot to do with it but they had plenty of very young players too.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on May 13, 2018, 10:48:04 AM
Huge game today. Could decide the rest of the season. Laois must win this one, especially with Antrim away coming up too.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on May 13, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
Gettin' pummelled in Kerry.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 13, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Absolute disaster down there. Man off and other two full backs off injured.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 13, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
That's the end of any Croke park ambition. Soundly spanked.

Trip to Antrim next to avoid possible relegation to Christy Ring with no full back line.

Disaster of a year.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: G@@ on May 13, 2018, 08:43:06 PM
"In order to reduce the number of teams in the Joe McDonagh Cup to five in 2019, at least one team will be relegated and will not be replaced. The bottom-placed team in the Joe McDonagh Cup is automatically relegated to the following year's Christy Ring Cup. The team that finishes second last in the 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup plays off against the 2018 Christy Ring Cup champions. The winner of that game plays in the Joe McDonagh Cup in 2019 and the losing team plays in the Christy Ring Cup."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Joe_McDonagh_Cup


We could be in serious sh1t now. As of today, we're playing Christy Ring Cup winners unless we pick up at least two wins and a draw.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on May 13, 2018, 08:55:37 PM
Jesus, the Carlow/ Antrim game looked saucy enough. Both sides will be down a good few between suspensions and injuries over the coming weeks, so maybe all is not lost. However, we're obviously in the same boat, and with a shallow panel, to boot. You really have to wonder about all these high-stakes matches in quick succession.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 13, 2018, 09:15:53 PM
Earlier, after looking at the relegation structure for this year (as G@@ posted), I found myself looking at the fixtures and results of the Christy Ring teams--my god I never thought I'd be doing that. :'(

I followed today's match on the twitter feed. The score says a lot but what was going on? Was there a lack of fitness, hunger, skills, strategy, or what?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on May 14, 2018, 04:38:29 AM
We really haven't recovered from the retirements over the past two years. We lost some real hard men from the team and the have been replaced with young skillful 'nice' hurlers. Enda Lyons is correct in what he says, Laois over the years might not have been great but by god you would know you were in a match with them. That real toughness/intensity is lost on this group, they don't have or don't show that raw aggression that we used to associate with Laois teams. They are probably the most talented group of hurlers we have ever had but that doesn't win the dirty ball and burst through the tackles. Granted most of these lads are young but its not a good enough excuse for me. Along with having all the skills you must have all the other qualities too to make a county hurler. A lot of our guys are small too which doesn't help.

The current management team must take some blame for this, when Cheddar was there we played at a much higher intensity (granted we had better players). The management also must take blame for the way/tactics we are playing, there seems to be no real pattern. Its looks like 15 guys are picked to play in their positions and it a 'go out and hurl' attitude, the game has evolved a lot since those days.

Since the retirements of two/three years ago we haven't blooded any new players of real quality. We have had reasonably decent minor teams over the past few years. We got to one minor leinster final and one U21 leinster final which we hadn't been doing previously and we consistently beat Offaly at minor level. However Offaly look to have got more players from their teams than we have. The question must be asked why that is happening?


Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laoiseabu on May 14, 2018, 10:32:22 AM
Eamonn Kelly get out of my beautiful county
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on May 14, 2018, 12:36:35 PM
Eamonn Kelly get out of my beautiful county

Agreed.
Theres no cohesion or teamwork, decision making is terrible, cant take a score under pressure, for podge to do what he did shows the heads are not right. Hard to point to anything good about what Kelly has done since his arrival. Fu*king laughing stock again. I refuse to blame the players though, they are putting in the effort but not being managed or coached it seems.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 14, 2018, 12:56:31 PM
Eamonn Kelly get out of my beautiful county

Agreed.
Theres no cohesion or teamwork, decision making is terrible, cant take a score under pressure, for podge to do what he did shows the heads are not right. Hard to point to anything good about what Kelly has done since his arrival. Fu*king laughing stock again. I refuse to blame the players though, they are putting in the effort but not being managed or coached it seems.

The problem with calling for the head of the manager is that it lets too many off the hook. While I completely agree that Kelly must take responsibility for the performance of the senior team yesterday and last week, he is not the reason we are looking at avoiding the drop to the Christy Ring.

What about the other lithany of issues in Laois that contribute to so few senior standard hurlers in the county?

- Low representation from major clubs such as our county champions, Portlaoise, Abbeyleix and the Harps
- The general death of hurling in Portlaoise.
- The gap between skill levels of our underage teams vs top counties

You can blame Kelly and all the retirements of 2 years ago but the biggest problem is the pipeline. Who other than the county board, the clubs and the GAA hierarchy are responsible for this?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on May 14, 2018, 01:02:16 PM
Absolutely blueandwhite, there are plenty of other issues. But i think the players we have are good enough to beat westmeath and kerry if managed and coached correctly. Im not saying we should be beating them out the gate, but we are better than what we are currently showing IMO.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: portlaoisekid on May 14, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
Disastrous times for Laois hurling, but this is coming since the day the county board in their wisdom decided not to back Cheddars plans for Laois hurling and let him go.

Laois hurling is only but a mere inconvenience to our county board.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on May 15, 2018, 12:03:33 PM
We really haven't recovered from the retirements over the past two years. We lost some real hard men from the team and the have been replaced with young skillful 'nice' hurlers. Enda Lyons is correct in what he says, Laois over the years might not have been great but by god you would know you were in a match with them. That real toughness/intensity is lost on this group, they don't have or don't show that raw aggression that we used to associate with Laois teams. They are probably the most talented group of hurlers we have ever had but that doesn't win the dirty ball and burst through the tackles. Granted most of these lads are young but its not a good enough excuse for me. Along with having all the skills you must have all the other qualities too to make a county hurler. A lot of our guys are small too which doesn't help.

The current management team must take some blame for this, when Cheddar was there we played at a much higher intensity (granted we had better players). The management also must take blame for the way/tactics we are playing, there seems to be no real pattern. Its looks like 15 guys are picked to play in their positions and it a 'go out and hurl' attitude, the game has evolved a lot since those days.

Since the retirements of two/three years ago we haven't blooded any new players of real quality. We have had reasonably decent minor teams over the past few years. We got to one minor leinster final and one U21 leinster final which we hadn't been doing previously and we consistently beat Offaly at minor level. However Offaly look to have got more players from their teams than we have. The question must be asked why that is happening?

Our clubs hurling isn't tough enough. Our U13s played in KK a few years back and our lads were calling for frees from the outset. The ref (a young lad) said that it's a "man's game" and told them to get on with it. Their choices were to crumble or stand up and fight. They chose to fight and started giving as good as they got.

Plus, we're trying to be a dual county, when we don't have the resources. We should pick one and essentially drop the other code.

Finally, it's not over. We've a few tough games to come, but Westmeath have to play Antrim, Kerry & Westmeath. Carlow have to play Westmeath. Kerry have to play Antrim.

Teams are beating each other, so we have a chance. Going away to Antrim on a low ebb will be very tough, but we're not out of this yet.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: The PRO on May 15, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
we're trying to be a dual county, when we don't have the resources. We should pick one and essentially drop the other code.
Simply not viable.

You can't tell the people of Portarlington that we're dropping football no more than you tell the people of Ballacolla that we're dropping hurling.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on May 16, 2018, 08:27:17 AM
we're trying to be a dual county, when we don't have the resources. We should pick one and essentially drop the other code.
Simply not viable.

You can't tell the people of Portarlington that we're dropping football no more than you tell the people of Ballacolla that we're dropping hurling.

Anything is possible. We're too small for two, especially given the work on the players coming through.

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mad Mentor on May 16, 2018, 10:42:13 AM
we're trying to be a dual county, when we don't have the resources. We should pick one and essentially drop the other code.
Simply not viable.

You can't tell the people of Portarlington that we're dropping football no more than you tell the people of Ballacolla that we're dropping hurling.

Anything is possible. We're too small for two, especially given the work on the players coming through.


Agreed, though when we drop the football it's going to take years to re-train the footballers to play hurling. County board will need a twenty year plan at least.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: The PRO on May 16, 2018, 10:58:58 AM
we're trying to be a dual county, when we don't have the resources. We should pick one and essentially drop the other code.
Simply not viable.

You can't tell the people of Portarlington that we're dropping football no more than you tell the people of Ballacolla that we're dropping hurling.

Anything is possible. We're too small for two, especially given the work on the players coming through.
Of course we're too small. That's not in question. But you can't impose one of the codes on half the county that has no interest in it. And you definitely don't want Emo hurling. Trust me😊.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 16, 2018, 12:17:02 PM
The hurling area of the county is definitely too small. The football area is big enough, especially when you consider Portlaoise.

I know it gets laughed at every time I bring it up but I actually think there is merit of having a 'best of the rest' divisional type team in Leinster competing in the Leinster championship. You would still have your county teams playing in the McDonagh or Christy Ring but a handful of the best players could play for a Leinster Barbarians type-team. It would give top hurlers from many counties such as ourselves, Westmeath, Carlow, Wicklow and even the Biffos a realistic shot at a medal. For example, rather than the futile exercise of putting the McDonagh cup champions into the All-Ireland qualifier series, you could put a team consisting of the best players from all 6 counties. Yes, I know it would have loads of problems and I'm sure many of you reading this can write a long list of reasons it wouldn't work but it is not without precedent. Players play against each other for their clubs today and then together for their counties. In rugby, the provincial system is an acknowledgement that Irish clubs would never be competitive in Europe otherwise.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 16, 2018, 12:21:10 PM
What are the thoughts on the Antrim game? They are unbeaten so far however only a few weeks ago we beat them on their own patch albeit the league. If we could get a victory we might still be in with a faint chance of getting second spot with 2 games to go.

What is the problem at the moment where we don't seem able to compete like the early games in the league. We had a right go at both Galway and Limerick. Have we completely done away with the short passing game because I haven't seen too much of it. Forwards seem to be playing as individuals and as much as we all like Cha he's taking on shots that are at best 50/50 at times. No cohesion going forward and very little interplay between the top six.

In the backs we've been hampered by injuries however the use of some of the subs is questionable. There is a fairly extensive management team in place and we had looked like we were improving but now look leggy and somewhat confused as a team.

Can we turn things around or do we say good bye and good luck to this years championship with a view to retaining our place in Joe McDonagh for next year.

On another note was it just the county board who forced Cheddar out or did the clubs have any say in the matter?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 16, 2018, 04:41:59 PM
What are the thoughts on the Antrim game? They are unbeaten so far however only a few weeks ago we beat them on their own patch albeit the league. If we could get a victory we might still be in with a faint chance of getting second spot with 2 games to go.

What is the problem at the moment where we don't seem able to compete like the early games in the league. We had a right go at both Galway and Limerick. Have we completely done away with the short passing game because I haven't seen too much of it. Forwards seem to be playing as individuals and as much as we all like Cha he's taking on shots that are at best 50/50 at times. No cohesion going forward and very little interplay between the top six.

In the backs we've been hampered by injuries however the use of some of the subs is questionable. There is a fairly extensive management team in place and we had looked like we were improving but now look leggy and somewhat confused as a team.

Can we turn things around or do we say good bye and good luck to this years championship with a view to retaining our place in Joe McDonagh for next year.

On another note was it just the county board who forced Cheddar out or did the clubs have any say in the matter?

There is complete silence from the camp since the Kerry disaster. Would wonder where we are going to get a full back line from for a start. Podge suspended and Leigh / Lee injured. Big step up for someone like Conor Phelan maybe. Antrim had us to the pin of our collars in the 2 league games.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2018, 06:21:47 PM
Antrim are probably missing neil mcmanus which is a huge loss. Carlow's antics have taken a big toll :(
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 16, 2018, 08:06:37 PM
What are the thoughts on the Antrim game? They are unbeaten so far however only a few weeks ago we beat them on their own patch albeit the league... What is the problem at the moment where we don't seem able to compete like the early games in the league[?]...

I was wondering the exact same thing. In theory, we should be able to handle Antrim on their home ground. Has anything significantly change in Laois' approach since that last relegation match with Antrim?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on May 16, 2018, 10:12:23 PM
Even our manager can't seem to answer that question!

However, if they play even close to the level they played against Westmeath, I would think Antrim will win comfortably.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on May 16, 2018, 10:16:44 PM
Yes, our form has definitely dipped - nose-dived, even - and it's hard to see wins against either Antrim or Carlow. At the start of the competition, you'd have said these would be the two hardest games - and they've just got harder, as they say.
But we live in hope.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 18, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Is it correct that the game in Antrim is starting at 1.30pm?

Was going to drive up tomorrow but that's a very early throw in time. Must be about a 4 hour drive from Laois.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Junior Ex Laoistalk on May 18, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
A bit of good news for Laois:


Injuries have forced Antrim into making changes for tomorrow's Joe McDonagh Cup encounter with Laois in Dunloy.
The Saffrons maintained their winning start to the inaugural second-tier championship against Carlow last weekend but the shine was taken off the 2-16 to 0-19 victory as three of their players required hospital treatment afterwards.

Michael Armstrong (broken arm), Joe Maskey (broken foot) and Neil McManus (who needed six stitches) all left Corrigan Park in an ambulance following a fiery affair which saw a total of four red cards (three for the visitors).

Armstrong and Maskey are both ruled out for the rest of the Joe McDonagh Cup campaign, however, McManus is named on the bench while Eoghan Campbell misses out because of suspension and Arron Graffin comes in for his first appearance since the league.

Antrim (Joe McDonagh Cup v Laois): Ryan Elliott; Stephen Rooney, John Dillon, Arron Graffin; Paddy Burke, Conor McKinley, Ryan McCambridge; Eddie McCloskey, Simon McCrory; Nigel Elliott, Conor Johnston, James McNaughton; Donal McKinley, Conor Carson, Daniel McCloskey.
Subs: Chrissy O'Connell, Matthew Donnelly, Neil McAuley, Conor Boyd, Conor McCann, Neil McManus, David Kearney, Gerard Walsh, Eoin O'Neill, Ryan McNulty, Ciaran Clarke, Keelan Molloy, Conor McHugh, Tommy Burns.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: justinn on May 18, 2018, 10:15:23 PM
The Laois team in full is: Enda Rowland; Joe Phelan, Matthew Whelan, Lee Cleere; Colm Stapleton, James Ryan, Ryan Mullaney; Paddy Purcell, Cian Taylor; Cha Dwyer, Ben Conroy, Ciaran Comerford; Ross King, Neil Foyle, Willie Dunphy.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 19, 2018, 02:01:46 PM
Laois doing very well at the moment 9 points to 6 up against the wind, Ross King is flying today. Need a win hear badly.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on May 19, 2018, 02:03:51 PM
Did you go up, after?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 19, 2018, 02:05:40 PM
If you're following on Twitter 'Unit Updates' are much better than the official Laois GAA twitter page as they give scorers and a bit more info.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 19, 2018, 02:48:05 PM
Ben Conroy having a fine game by all accounts.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 19, 2018, 03:07:54 PM
A 1 point win, we'll take that. Jaysus they made it very hard in the end after being 5 points up going into injury time.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on May 19, 2018, 03:50:37 PM
Great win.

You'd imagine after this weekend.....

Antrim, Kerry, Carlow & Westmeath all on 4pts
Laois on 2pts
Meath 0pts

If Laois beat Carlow & Westmeath, we finish on 6pts.
Meath will finish on zero, you'd imagine.

After that:

Carlow v Laois & Westmeath
Antrim v Westmeath & Kerry
Kerry v Meath & Antrim
Westmeath v Antrim & Carlow

Laois win both.
Carlow to beat Westmeath.
Westmeath to beat Antrim.
Antrim to beat Kerry.

All five teams finish on 6pts. Laois need to beat Carlow & beat the living sh8t out of Meath.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on May 19, 2018, 06:24:41 PM
YAY!

I could only follow on twitter--looked like it was quite an exciting match. I'm thrilled with the result.

Next--Carlow (and it sounds like they've been playing a bit dirty, lately).
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2018, 08:28:10 PM
Great win.

You'd imagine after this weekend.....

Antrim, Kerry, Carlow & Westmeath all on 4pts
Laois on 2pts
Meath 0pts

If Laois beat Carlow & Westmeath, we finish on 6pts.
Meath will finish on zero, you'd imagine.

After that:

Carlow v Laois & Westmeath
Antrim v Westmeath & Kerry
Kerry v Meath & Antrim
Westmeath v Antrim & Carlow

Laois win both.
Carlow to beat Westmeath.
Westmeath to beat Antrim.
Antrim to beat Kerry.

All five teams finish on 6pts. Laois need to beat Carlow & beat the living sh8t out of Meath.
Westmeath have to play Kerry tomorrow.
Would put them on 6 ooints
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2018, 09:05:34 PM
Agree with all except westmeath to beat carlow...
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: CruiseCigar on May 19, 2018, 10:25:15 PM
Thankfully they got a win. Let's hope they can move on from this. They are doing g it the hard way
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 20, 2018, 01:02:31 AM
You want Westmeath to win all their games and we need to put a big score past Meath
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on May 20, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
6 Westmeath
4 Antrim & Carlow
2 Laois & Kerry
0 Meath

If Kerry, Laois & Westmeath win next...

8 Westmeath
4 Laois Antrim, Kerry & Carlow
0 Meath

Then Laois, Westmeath & Antrim

10 Westmeath
6 Laois & Antrim
4 Kerry & Carlow
0 Meath

Laois win on head-to-head? A Kerry win over Antrim would see us out, in that scenario. An Antrim win over Westmeath would see us out.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 21, 2018, 10:56:24 AM
Yeh, Antrim would have to beat Kerry also. I think our scoring difference will be no use if more than 2 teams finish level. Best outcome is where Westmeath get 10 points and we finsih level with Antrim.
Have to beat Carlow in two weeks time so the break will be beneficial with injuries etc.
The Laois gaa mentality would drive ya nuts. How can we go North Antrim and win when we absolutely have to yet we cannot do it against the Westmeath or Kerry??
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Unlaoised on May 22, 2018, 09:13:55 AM
Good win but will it get us back into it ...I'm not so sure!

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Clubber Lang on May 23, 2018, 07:50:03 PM
Very unpredictable how rest of league will play out. If Laois win their remaining two games and shoot the lights out scoring wise they might sneak into the final of the Joe McDonagh. With Westmeath still to play Antrim there is every chance that that two losses will not prove fatal.

I am finding it very frustrating that the Sunday Game is playing lip service to the teams in Joe McDonagh. 30 second sound bite stating how its a great competition and the players are loving the opportunity to play counties at their own level. GAA should be promoting this competition by giving TG4 rights to show a game per week in the Joe McDonagh-therefore providing the competition with real exposure and real media coverage. The standard of the second tier teams is of a high level and deserves more recognition than it is currently receiving. I couldn't see how this competition being shown on TG4 would impact on their championship coverage. Technically it is a qualifier competition-with winners progressing to play in the championship. 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on May 23, 2018, 10:12:42 PM
Excellent point.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on May 30, 2018, 04:15:12 PM
Any word from the camp regarding injuries etc.

Who will go full back on Saturday? I think Matthew Whelan played in there after the sending off. An absolute must win game but will count for little if Antrim beat Westmeath.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on May 30, 2018, 04:30:27 PM
Any word from the camp regarding injuries etc.

Who will go full back on Saturday? I think Matthew Whelan played in there after the sending off. An absolute must win game but will count for little if Antrim beat Westmeath.

I think there is a policy of deliberate silence from the camp. Not a word from anyone. They clearly plan to do their talking on the pitch on Saturday.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 01, 2018, 04:27:01 PM
No Cha in first 15?? Anyone any insight?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 01, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
AOIS: Enda Rowland (Abbeyleix); Joe Phelan (Camross), Leigh Bergin (Shanahoe), Colm Stapleton (Borris-Kilcotton); Podge Lawlor (Ballinakill), Matthew Whelan (Borris-Kilcotton), Ryan Mullaney (Castletown); James Ryan (Rathdowney-Errill), Paddy Purcell (Rathdowney-Errill); Ben Conroy (Slieve Bloom), Neil Foyle (Borris-Kilcotton), Ciaran Comerford (The Harps); Willie Dunphy (Clough-Ballacolla), Ross King (Rathdowney-Errill), Stephen Maher (Clough-Ballacolla)

No Cha alright. Has he picked up an injury? His form hasn't be brilliant this year but he's still a big player for the team.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on June 01, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
No Cha in first 15?? Anyone any insight?

I'm hearing that he is out and King is very doubtful!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 02, 2018, 04:14:39 PM
Kelly Out!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laois Rising on June 02, 2018, 04:25:35 PM
Shambolic second half. Men versus boys. Similar to Westmeath and Kerry game where we outfought and out muscled. Lack of 3/4 men leaders down the spine of team very telling.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on June 02, 2018, 04:27:53 PM
Kelly Out!

It was Cheddar's fault a few years ago remember!!

Kelly was a ridiculous appointment that should never have been made.
Some of the carryon this year with both the Senior & U21 set up has been a joke.

I'd go further than get him out.
Get him out NOW.

Let some combination of those involved over last few years- Owen Coss, John Taylor, Seamus Dwyer, Paul Cuddy, Damien Culleton - in to take over for the Meath game and relegation play-off.

The last thing we should allow happen is for him stay on to beat Meath and whoever in the playoff, walk away, get an article off Damien Lawlor on why Laois players didn't put the effort in, and reappear somewhere else as an Intercounty Manager within a year or two.

Get rid, now.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on June 02, 2018, 05:01:48 PM
Grand. Get rid. Another journeyman manager making the rounds of the lesser counties, making hay while the sun shines for him.

Where to now though? The setanta programme needs a reboot if we're pulling through players to be hammered by f**king Carlow. No excuses now. Smaller population, does both codes. smaller funding.....

F**king Carlow!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Unison on June 02, 2018, 05:44:21 PM
Why not ask Cheddar to come back?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laoiseabu on June 02, 2018, 05:48:23 PM
That's an embarrassing result . Surely the manager is a dead man walking at this stage
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Laois Rising on June 02, 2018, 05:52:34 PM
Laois job after Cheddar was always going to be an impossible task with so many retirements and withdrawals from Laois panel. We were basically left with an Under 23 panel that had achieved little at under age and lacked physicality. I worry for the next 4:5 years whoever comes in. Things look to have got progressively worse as the year progressed. Our team looks like a group of Young lads who have lost confidence and belief. Once things started to go wrong on the field of play they folded like a house of cards
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 02, 2018, 06:31:01 PM
What's next? :-[

Do I have this right?
If Laois loses next week (godforbid), it's straight down to the Christy Ring, next year.
If Laois wins next week, we then play the winner of this year's Christy Ring--with the loser of that match down in the Christy Ring, next year.

Ugh.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 02, 2018, 06:35:39 PM
Let some combination of those involved over last few years- Owen Coss, John Taylor, Seamus Dwyer, Paul Cuddy, Damien Culleton - in to take over for the Meath game and relegation play-off.

Hear, hear!
Title: Torthaí
Post by: drici on June 02, 2018, 06:40:49 PM
What's next? :-[

Do I have this right?
If Laois loses next week (godforbid), it's straight down to the Christy Ring, next year.
If Laois wins next week, we then play the winner of this year's Christy Ring--with the loser of that match down in the Christy Ring, next year.

Ugh.


A Kerry win over Antrim and a Laois win over Meath would change things.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 02, 2018, 09:29:43 PM
The stark truth today was that we weren't within an asses roar of Carlow any aspect of the game. Physicality, skill, pace, organization, hunger, teamwork, belief or fitness.

No doubt the management can take the blame for many of the failings of the team but that is not the only problem we have. Hard to believe we have the hurlers that will push things forward. On today's evidence they just are not there. We can say we were missing a few but the hurlers on the field today didn't have the skill to play intercounty hurling at McDonagh level, forget about division 1 or Leinster championship. They might be grand playing club hurling at a slower pace in Laois but when the chips are down at inter county level they look like they are in slow motion.

Carlow gave an exhibition today in movement, catching, passing and winning dirty ball. They were far more than 10 points the better team. They were efficient with the ball where as we seem to lose more than 50% of any possession we win.

We are going backwards fast. A new manager will give some impetus and get the powers that be off the hook but we are in real trouble. Hurling development in Laois is not working.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: portlaoisekid on June 02, 2018, 10:24:06 PM
The stark truth today was that we weren't within an asses roar of Carlow any aspect of the game. Physicality, skill, pace, organization, hunger, teamwork, belief or fitness.

No doubt the management can take the blame for many of the failings of the team but that is not the only problem we have. Hard to believe we have the hurlers that will push things forward. On today's evidence they just are not there. We can say we were missing a few but the hurlers on the field today didn't have the skill to play intercounty hurling at McDonagh level, forget about division 1 or Leinster championship. They might be grand playing club hurling at a slower pace in Laois but when the chips are down at inter county level they look like they are in slow motion.

Carlow gave an exhibition today in movement, catching, passing and winning dirty ball. They were far more than 10 points the better team. They were efficient with the ball where as we seem to lose more than 50% of any possession we win.

We are going backwards fast. A new manager will give some impetus and get the powers that be off the hook but we are in real trouble. Hurling development in Laois is not working.
Great post and sums it up perfectly.

Laois hurling is a reaping what it has sown, the Cb are about to get what they always wanted in terms of wanting a footballing only county. Getting rid of cheddar was removing the last impediment to achieving this , well done lads.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 02, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Kelly Out!
You’ve done f**king neck after what you used say about Cheddar. Here’s the new dawn you wanted. Enjoy it.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 03, 2018, 01:36:49 AM
Felt sorry for Matthew Whelan today. still waiting for his day in Croke Park. Was one of the first back to the dressing room. Bit of a shambles today. We looked fairly clueless but can play much better. If/When Kelly goes we have to get a Laois man to get the passion back.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 03, 2018, 01:48:18 AM
... When Kelly goes we have to get a Laois man to get the passion back.

I was just thinking the same.

It's a little easier to stomach any lost match when the manager and team have genuine passion. (And their will probably be fewer losses.)
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 03, 2018, 08:11:21 AM
Kelly Out!
You’ve done f**king neck after what you used say about Cheddar. Here’s the new dawn you wanted. Enjoy it.

 ;D you sound so ridiculous
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 03, 2018, 12:19:46 PM
... When Kelly goes we have to get a Laois man to get the passion back.

I was just thinking the same.

It's a little easier to stomach any lost match when the manager and team have genuine passion. (And their will probably be fewer losses.)

Dont agree. We get a good manager, thats what we aim for. If they be from Laois thats great, if not, doesnt matter. Colm Bonnar isnt a Carlow man yet Carlow can play with heart, passion, brains, they are well coached and know what they want to do when they have the ball. Kelly is a spoofer. Dare i say the S word again, but we had a sweeper system in place again, against Carlow, and we were behind at the time!! Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the best way to play etc, but i dont believe for a second, that we are not good enough to go out and attack and have a plan of attack, and have a go against the likes of Carlow. I believe the players trust themselves to do better than sit back and invite Carlow to attack. I think moral has to be low with that carry on. Yes we have a young team, weve had retirements blah blah blah, but the talent we have is good enough for a Joe McDonagh final. Thats my opinion. They aren’t being managed correctly. Stevie Wonder could see that.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 03, 2018, 01:40:10 PM
We all know you have the vision of a Stevie Wonder when it comes to Lapis hurling, you treacherous gurrier.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 03, 2018, 02:45:40 PM
We all know you have the vision of a Stevie Wonder when it comes to Lapis hurling, you treacherous gurrier.

Another fantastic contribution, thanks Don! Work on the spelling though!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 03, 2018, 04:27:23 PM
We all know you have the vision of a Stevie Wonder when it comes to Lapis hurling, you treacherous gurrier.

Another fantastic contribution, thanks Don! Work on the spelling though!
You’re some stook all the same
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on June 04, 2018, 01:04:36 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHq-RpFVgyI

Look at the date.
Almost 5 years to the day.

Jesus wept.
Congrats to our County Board and others. One more result in your favour next weekend and you can probably begin the process of winding down hurling.

Compare Cheddar's vision here with the likes of Turlough below in Carlow who is just delighted to have a bit of a personal profile. Cheddar, immediately after a massive performance that was a huge personal achievement, immediately looking towards the long term future of Laois hurling.

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on June 04, 2018, 05:18:28 AM
Its very sad.
For the on millionth time we need a long term plan for laois hurling. It doesn't matter who we put in as senior Manager...whats the best thing that can happen in the short term?
We could win the McDonagh cup but will we ever actually improve enough to be able to beat some of the bigger teams one day? Not a hope with the way we are going so the conversation right now should not be about who is going to be the next manager of the senior hurlers.
The conversation should be about a future plan for laois hurling that will have us in a position in ten years time that when we play a Wexford or Dublin that we genuinely have a chance of winning.
Our under14 team beat kilkenny last year in the tony forrestal, is there any system in place for those guys to be helped in their development. Who is monitoring these guys progress, are we providing them with incentives to continue their progression as laois hurlers or will they be allowed to fall away like so many others that have gone before them?
We had minor and under21 teams in leinster finals in the past 5-6 years, how many of them have improved as players since then? We comfortably beat Offaly at minor level 3 or 4 years in a row but Offaly have gotten more senior hurlers from their teams, why?

Its not working lads, a long term solution is required!!
First thing id do? Move mountains to get Cheddar as director of Laois hurling. There's a start.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 04, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
We burnt Cheddar out, and for what? So pricks like Finbar Toole could chip away at home from behind their printers. How about someone else step up.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 04, 2018, 09:54:17 AM
Its very sad.
For the on millionth time we need a long term plan for laois hurling. It doesn't matter who we put in as senior Manager...whats the best thing that can happen in the short term?
We could win the McDonagh cup but will we ever actually improve enough to be able to beat some of the bigger teams one day? Not a hope with the way we are going so the conversation right now should not be about who is going to be the next manager of the senior hurlers.
The conversation should be about a future plan for laois hurling that will have us in a position in ten years time that when we play a Wexford or Dublin that we genuinely have a chance of winning.
Our under14 team beat kilkenny last year in the tony forrestal, is there any system in place for those guys to be helped in their development. Who is monitoring these guys progress, are we providing them with incentives to continue their progression as laois hurlers or will they be allowed to fall away like so many others that have gone before them?
We had minor and under21 teams in leinster finals in the past 5-6 years, how many of them have improved as players since then? We comfortably beat Offaly at minor level 3 or 4 years in a row but Offaly have gotten more senior hurlers from their teams, why?

Its not working lads, a long term solution is required!!
First thing id do? Move mountains to get Cheddar as director of Laois hurling. There's a start.

Great post Tobias, i 100% agree with everything you said. Cheddar would be the ideal man for a Director of hurling, I've said this before. The current crop of senior players, unfortunately, have limited talent. Our development squads must take priority.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Jd on June 04, 2018, 01:44:02 PM
 I'm from the football end of things but am saddened by the demise of hurling in the county. We chased Sugrue to manage senior football and are getting good results. Our GDAs are primarily from football background and I can see the efforts and small benefits coming from this . We should chase the best hurling men in the county now and make sure they are given exactly what they want on a par with the football. Pat Critchly and Cheddar have probably forgotten more about hurling than the rest of the county know but are not being utilised properly if at all . I'm sure there are plenty of other good coaches around the club's too. Get them working at grassroots and in 5 or 6 years we'll see the benefits. Finally we need to put a bit of thought into the senior manager and get a man who will pull all the clubs together for the betterment of the county
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Joeythelips on June 04, 2018, 01:47:18 PM
Did Cheddar not come up with a long term plan for hurling that was basically ignored? Did Niall Rigney not do similar?  2 passionate Laois hurling men, but our county board just move on to the next journey man they can find it would seem.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on June 04, 2018, 05:09:52 PM
Did Cheddar not come up with a long term plan for hurling that was basically ignored? Did Niall Rigney not do similar?  2 passionate Laois hurling men, but our county board just move on to the next journey man they can find it would seem.

Look at the list of journey men managers that we have had in the last 20 years in both hurling and football.
What do they all have in common? They don't bother the county board. They accept second rate conditions for the players under their watch, thus allowing the county board get away with murder.

Then you have those who don't and wouldn't accept this- Cheddar, Big Sean, Sean Dempsey, Sugrue etc.

First thing- The bigger hurling clubs should get together, canvas the rest of the hurling clubs and jointly demand an emergency meeting of the CB Executive and the hurling clubs this week.
Explain this managers performance, his lack of insight into why Laois are not performing and whether or not he should be left in charge for the remaining games.

The CB in Laois get an easy ride in comparison to other counties, particularly from the hurling clubs. We have all gone too nice, afraid to upset or offend anyone. 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: mountrath1 on June 04, 2018, 07:59:29 PM
Had he actually any credentials to manage an inter county team.. junior panelist with tipp in 80s..
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 04, 2018, 09:29:39 PM
Had he actually any credentials to manage an inter county team.. junior panelist with tipp in 80s..
By that criteria you wouldn’t have given Sean Boylan a job
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Keyser Söze on June 04, 2018, 09:39:52 PM
Random part of the "next plan".

Try to have a nominated and interested person from each club as part of an intercounty backroom team (u17/u21/senior).  They commit to bringing bits and pieces back to their own clubs and upskilling themselves and others.
Financially renumerated for doing so.

At least when their stint with intercounty teams finishes they bring something back to their own clubs-
Laois hurling benefits from the learning experience that is being part of an intercounty backroom team and working with some of the best coaches/S & C/ analysts in the country- not a random club 40km down the M7.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on June 04, 2018, 09:50:07 PM
That looks far too much like a good idea to be adopted by the county board.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Leixlad on June 05, 2018, 08:56:31 AM
A sad sad day for Laois hurling Saturday. An absolute disaster - a 10 point beating by Carlow. Thats down there with the 10 goals Cork scored. In fact id say we are now in a worse position than after that defeat - back then there was talk of dropping to Christy Ring, now there is same talk except this time dropping to Christy Ring is going to tier 3 not tier 2! How have we become so bad? Senior manager clearly has to take some of the blame but not all. I do believe the players are trying hard. Hurling has been in decline again since Cheddar left and the county board have done zilch. They are an absolute disgrace lets call a spade a spade. They are responsible for this - they had their chance with Cheddars plan. They didn't have the ambition to persue it. They wouldn't fund it because that would require work to raise money. A shower of dinosaurs ruining hurling in this county. Where do we go from here? We have no saviour like Cheddar to come in this time. A plan, a vision, a strategy over 5-10 years is whats needed now. Can we honestly see that happening through the Laois county board? No chance. We are in big big trouble now unless Croke Park step in to help us. Watching the teams hurling in the Munster championship would make you jealous - an unbelievable sport that is sadly dying in Laois.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Goku on June 05, 2018, 10:13:54 AM
I think your not far of Leixlad, I would mark the team that conceded 10 goals to Cork as a better team than our current set-up, A sad time for Laois hurling people. I hope the county board get off there asses and do something about it this time!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: SCFC on June 05, 2018, 11:45:03 AM
A sad sad day for Laois hurling Saturday. An absolute disaster - a 10 point beating by Carlow. Thats down there with the 10 goals Cork scored. In fact id say we are now in a worse position than after that defeat - back then there was talk of dropping to Christy Ring, now there is same talk except this time dropping to Christy Ring is going to tier 3 not tier 2! How have we become so bad? Senior manager clearly has to take some of the blame but not all. I do believe the players are trying hard. Hurling has been in decline again since Cheddar left and the county board have done zilch. They are an absolute disgrace lets call a spade a spade. They are responsible for this - they had their chance with Cheddars plan. They didn't have the ambition to persue it. They wouldn't fund it because that would require work to raise money. A shower of dinosaurs ruining hurling in this county. Where do we go from here? We have no saviour like Cheddar to come in this time. A plan, a vision, a strategy over 5-10 years is whats needed now. Can we honestly see that happening through the Laois county board? No chance. We are in big big trouble now unless Croke Park step in to help us. Watching the teams hurling in the Munster championship would make you jealous - an unbelievable sport that is sadly dying in Laois.
Great post.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on June 05, 2018, 12:11:18 PM
Got to remember, Laois beat Carlow last year in the championship - and with King having been sent off early on, too. But, on Sunday, Carlow were way, way better. The Laois performances in this year's championship have far back on last year, and some of the 'tactics' baffling, but we do have the raw materials to compete in the McDonagh Cup. However, lack of size, as I said before, is a serious problem that was very noticeable on Sunday. The way the game is gone, it seems there's little enough point developing a load of skilful little lads.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 05, 2018, 12:59:00 PM
But you have to play to your strengths. I agree size was very noticeable on Saturday so no point raining in high balls. Play a shorter, possession based game and give balls into the corners for forwards to run on to. Utilise what we have to best of our ability which hasn't been happening. I cannot understand how we can go to Antrim and get the victory to keep us in the competition and then fail miserably like we did on Saturday. Antrim beat Carlow and went very close to beating Westmeath. A win last Saturday coupled with Antrim beating Kerry next weekend would have seen us through provided we beat Meath. Would anyone put their house on us beathing Meath next week? I wouldn't!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 05, 2018, 05:43:22 PM
Maybe start by selling those f'ing GPS trackers and buying a few extra sliotars to work on our hurling.

Carlow's first touch was closer to that of a Wexford or Dublin. They moved the ball without having to do a long dance, drop the ball twice, fumble and eventually lose the ball. They managed to pass the ball to a Carlow man in space rather than a Laois man. Their hurling, never mind their physique and tactics, was a million miles ahead of us. I wasn't at the Kerry match but can only imagine it was the same. I think it is a nonsense that we are skillful but small. Some of the smaller Carlow lads didn't let it affect their performance.

Do you really need a top class manager to be able to strike a ball on the run 10 yards to another player?

Every year we hear that this year's minor or U21 team isn't that great but the good ones are coming. On what evidence do we have the players?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on June 05, 2018, 07:18:23 PM
We spent the last 10 years railing against tier2 hurling and now we hang over the cliff of tier3. We have to draw with or beat Meath now to be sure of even a playoff. A Div1B league team playing tier3 championship hurling would be ludicrous and unprecedented.

There are two Div2A teams and two Div2B teams in the CR semis. Statistically, the chances of a 2B team beating a 1B team is tiny (about 1%), but the 2A win % rises to about 24%. Given momentum etc, you wouldn't guarantee a Laois win.

Beating Meath is the priority.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: burdizzo on June 05, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
I'd say they won't be 1B this time next year.

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 05, 2018, 08:31:24 PM
I'm curious--has anyone heard from any of the hurlers, themselves, as to what they think went wrong this year?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Unlaoised on June 05, 2018, 10:58:23 PM
I'm curious--has anyone heard from any of the hurlers, themselves, as to what they think went wrong this year?

Eamon Kelly thats what went wrong


A spoofer
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 06, 2018, 11:39:43 AM
It's time the hurling clubs come together and have a go at the CB if the will is there. It can only driven by the members and it will take someone with a bit of inititiave to get it started. Without the support and numbers from the clubs there will be no pressure on the CB to do anything.
If there is a will there is a way.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Andy06 on June 06, 2018, 12:22:23 PM
Well this article is far from re-assuring!
http://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/286158

Basically Kelly telling us (and not the first time this year) he has no idea how they are losing games.
Like what sort of idiot, even for himself, comes out with this sort of stuff "Yeh havent a baldies how we lost that 10 point game".
The fact that he is utterly clueless to spot where the issues are is absolutely damning. He needs to be jettisoned as soon as this campaign is done.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 06, 2018, 12:30:26 PM
Sounds a bit like previous senior football managers.

If kelly doesn't know how about interviewing some of his back room team. Someone should be able to throw light on the subject.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 06, 2018, 06:01:53 PM
Jack Nolans take on where we're at!

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/06/jack-nolan-demise-of-laois-hurling-saddens-me-greatly/ (https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/06/jack-nolan-demise-of-laois-hurling-saddens-me-greatly/)
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: vetoldthe on June 06, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
WELL said jack, THEY ARE A BLOODY DISGRACE.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on June 07, 2018, 11:55:37 AM
I prefer not to be too critical but it's really shameful to see how the county board responded to Cheddar's initiatives.

If you're managing a progressive company, you're begging for someone to make plans, take initiatives, be innovative and do things properly. Cheddar did all that for free and spent a lot of his own money in the process. He proves what is possible with relatively modest resources. Then he goes to "management" and looks for more. He gets agreement from Croke Park but he gets the run from the county board. Honestly, I cannot think of any other walk of life where you might get such perversion.

For a small hurling county, we're absolutely blessed to have people of the calibre of Cheddar, Pat Critchley, Paul Cuddy and a few more. The minor management team this year had their team very well prepared too. We have good people. But if they're not being supported by "management", then we might as well throw our hat at it. If they are relegated to Christy Ring, which is a distinct possibility, there should be nothing left but for the county board to resign en masse.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 07, 2018, 02:31:58 PM
Lads does anyone here have a copy of what Cheddar was actually proposing in his plan?.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 07, 2018, 03:50:40 PM
The county board see managers as very important people. When the hurling team play poorly they blame the manager, sack him, appoint a committee and eventually announce a new manager. Everyone then moves on and the county board is happy for another year. The role of the manager is therefore to take the fall for the CB. Hurling is secondary.

If you take the above, slightly tongue in cheek argument to it's fruition, you could say that the role of the county board is to take the fall for the clubs. The county board are elected by the clubs to do the bidding of the clubs. When everything is crap, we then put it on the useless ineffective has-beens that we have appointed.

This won't be solved without the clubs having a combined ambition for hurling in the county. The first thing they need to do is put an autonomous hurling board together with capability. Beg Cheddar to chair it and give him complete authority and independent funding. Wouldn't it be great to see the likes of Pat Critchley, Paul Cuddy, Enda Lyons, Joe Dollard and Willie Hyland running hurling development in Laois rather than what we have had to put up with.

The clubs also need to stand up and get top class coaches at all age groups. There are some incredible lads who give great time to their clubs but the don't necessarily have the skills and experience to build skill levels between 8-14 years of age when motor skills are developed. Arguably, if you miss this formative period in the development of a hurler you are done. It has been a constant bug-bear of minor managers over the years that they are getting lads at 16 / 17 and have to coach skills that should be long established with sub-optimal results. I have personally yet to see a lad who was an ok hurler at that age turn into a super one at 23.

Anyway, that's my rant. The clubs and public blame the county board who blame the manager. It all starts and ends with the clubs and always has.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on June 07, 2018, 04:00:04 PM
Lads does anyone here have a copy of what Cheddar was actually proposing in his plan?.

Would love to see it. And I suspect that you'd get plenty of actual (financial) support for it from hurling people inside the county and outside it. But of course to do so would take a little imagination.

Looking back now, it's incredible that he was let walk away
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 07, 2018, 04:20:15 PM
Lads does anyone here have a copy of what Cheddar was actually proposing in his plan?.

Would love to see it. And I suspect that you'd get plenty of actual (financial) support for it from hurling people inside the county and outside it. But of course to do so would take a little imagination.

Looking back now, it's incredible that he was let walk away

Laois spent c.€700k across the 2 codes in 2017 preparing Teams,assuming a spend of €300k on hurling

Im sure a better allocation of that money allied to Cheddar's plan would see modest gains ie. we would go from losing to the likes of Carlow and Kerry to losing to the likes of Cork and Limerick.

There's every possibility next year we could be losing to the likes of Kildare and Roscommon.



Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on June 07, 2018, 04:36:07 PM
Agree fully with you.

Under Cheddar, we went from losing to Offaly to beating Offaly in a couple of years. That was "modest" progress in a certain way but given the time period in which it was done and the resources used to achieve it, I think it was a fantastic achievement. Some vision for the development of the younger lads coupled with some smart investment (not necessarily millions) could have brought us further (in similar modest steps).  I agree with everything Blueandwhite1 said about the young hurlers in that respect (and indeed you've been saying it yourself for a long time on here). I'd be astonished if Cheddar's plan didn't dedicate significant time to that question.

Instead of this, as you say, the height of our ambition now seems to be to beat Kerry....... . But no-one seems to know (and in particular our well reimbursed management team) how that mind-boggling target might be met.
 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 07, 2018, 05:41:20 PM
With Jack Nolans profile he'd be a decent man to push something like this with his role in the media etc. He's as disappointed and frustrated as the rest of us but would be well known and could garner support to put pressure on the county board. They were discussing it on his facebook page.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Leixlad on June 07, 2018, 08:27:25 PM
The county board see managers as very important people. When the hurling team play poorly they blame the manager, sack him, appoint a committee and eventually announce a new manager. Everyone then moves on and the county board is happy for another year. The role of the manager is therefore to take the fall for the CB. Hurling is secondary.

If you take the above, slightly tongue in cheek argument to it's fruition, you could say that the role of the county board is to take the fall for the clubs. The county board are elected by the clubs to do the bidding of the clubs. When everything is crap, we then put it on the useless ineffective has-beens that we have appointed.

This won't be solved without the clubs having a combined ambition for hurling in the county. The first thing they need to do is put an autonomous hurling board together with capability. Beg Cheddar to chair it and give him complete authority and independent funding. Wouldn't it be great to see the likes of Pat Critchley, Paul Cuddy, Enda Lyons, Joe Dollard and Willie Hyland running hurling development in Laois rather than what we have had to put up with.

The clubs also need to stand up and get top class coaches at all age groups. There are some incredible lads who give great time to their clubs but the don't necessarily have the skills and experience to build skill levels between 8-14 years of age when motor skills are developed. Arguably, if you miss this formative period in the development of a hurler you are done. It has been a constant bug-bear of minor managers over the years that they are getting lads at 16 / 17 and have to coach skills that should be long established with sub-optimal results. I have personally yet to see a lad who was an ok hurler at that age turn into a super one at 23.

Anyway, that's my rant. The clubs and public blame the county board who blame the manager. It all starts and ends with the clubs and always has.

Thumbs up. Well summed.
Just regarding people wondering what cheddars plans was, I don’t need to see it to know it was the right plan. No stone should be left unturned in an attempt to get him back. Can’t see it happening but by god someone should be trying. It was no surprise our fortunes turned up with him and Zoom in charge of teams. Bite the bullet and go back to them.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Junior Ex Laoistalk on June 08, 2018, 12:22:50 AM

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 09, 2018, 04:42:45 PM
Laois 3-23
Meath 0-14

Phew! That's more like it.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 09, 2018, 08:22:44 PM
So this statement is from yesterday on rte.ie, "Laois could avoid the play-off and finish fourth if Antrim were to lose to Kerry,...".

Antrim did lose to Kerry but we're still fifth on the table. This article probably should have said "... if Kerry beats the living sh!te out of Antrim."

https://www.rte.ie/sport/results/gaa/2018/6136/tables/

So I guess we will be playing the winner of the Christy Ring to avoid relegation. I hope we get as good of scoring as we did today. :)
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Joeythelips on June 09, 2018, 08:29:53 PM
Nope, Meath go down and Antrim playoff against Christy Ring Cup winners.
http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/ (http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/)
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 09, 2018, 09:22:43 PM
Hurling out of the way for the CB. It’s up to the players and clubs to make sure this isn’t brushed under the carpet now. Changes needed. Urgently.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 09, 2018, 09:31:18 PM
Nope, Meath go down and Antrim playoff against Christy Ring Cup winners.
http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/ (http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/)

Great news! Though I don't understand why if we're below Antrim on the tables. Anyway, great news.
Title: Scéal
Post by: drici on June 09, 2018, 10:08:11 PM

Nope, Meath go down and Antrim playoff against Christy Ring Cup winners.
http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/ (http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/ring-rackard-and-meagher-cup-finals-details-165803/)


Great news! Though I don't understand why if we're below Antrim on the tables. Anyway, great news.


http://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/rules-regulations/

In a scenario whereby two teams vying for promotion or battling to avoid relegation are level on points, here is how a tie-break is determined.

• The team that won the head-to-head match is ranked first

• If this game was a draw, scoring difference is used to rank the teams

• If scoring difference is identical, the total scores is used to rank the teams

• If this is still identical, a play-off is required

If three or more teams are level on points, then the head to head rule no longer applies and scoring difference is used to rank the teams.
Title: Re: Scéal
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 09, 2018, 11:33:26 PM
• The team that won the head-to-head match is ranked first

Ahh. That clears it up for me. Thanks, Drici!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on June 10, 2018, 04:18:33 AM
So what now? Everythings ok? Nothing changes.
Meath win merely papers over the cracks until another year of despair in 2019!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on June 10, 2018, 09:27:38 AM
So what now? Everythings ok? Nothing changes.
Meath win merely papers over the cracks until another year of despair in 2019!

Take the win. Be grateful that results worked in our favour.
There's no one with any cop-on going to let that result paper over any cracks.

Kelly's a goner; he knows it, players know it.
The key now is to get the right people in place to find his successor.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on June 11, 2018, 04:40:50 AM
So what now? Everythings ok? Nothing changes.
Meath win merely papers over the cracks until another year of despair in 2019!

Take the win. Be grateful that results worked in our favour.
There's no one with any cop-on going to let that result paper over any cracks.

Kelly's a goner; he knows it, players know it.
The key now is to get the right people in place to find his successor.

We have the players to win the Joe McDonagh cup in the next couple of years but how much can we improve in reality. While it would have been great to win the McDonagh cup final this year, If we had we would end up playing Wexford, Clare or Cork and would have been annihilated. A long term plan is required to have more kids playing the game and improve the standards of hurling across the County. Kelly successor isn't hugely relevant in my opinion.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: portlaoisekid on June 11, 2018, 08:01:07 PM
So Kelly is gone, please god the cb see sense and get cheddar back in and let him implement his plan for laois hurling.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 11, 2018, 08:26:32 PM
Arien surely?
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: LooseCannon on June 11, 2018, 09:49:28 PM
Arien surely?
He won a Leinster league final by 5 points v St Rynagh’s. Shinrone were short 2 players.
Rynagh’s were short 5 starters.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Goku on June 11, 2018, 11:21:59 PM
Think Arien has to be the favorite, Highly rated up in Camross, passionate Laois man and might even get a few of the Camross lads back on board.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Tobias on June 12, 2018, 04:24:33 AM
I think Cheddar should certainly be heading up the hunt for a new Manager but I don't think he should be the new manager. He was there for a few years and he was with the minors before that so someone with a slightly different approach and a new voice might be a wiser option.
Id love to see him try again with his blueprint for Laois hurling and for the Co board to realize their mistake and support Cheddars long term plan. He could also form part of the backroom team for the senior hurlers surveying things in the background, he would pick up on things and think outside the box in terms of drumming up interest in hurling, promoting it, planning the financial side of things.

This probably sounds harsh or unfair but I don't think the current panel are good enough to get us to where we want to go - that being able to compete in the leinster championship proper against Kilkenny and Wexford etc. They are good enough to win the McDonagh cup alright but are we happy with that? No is the answer to that so that's why I feel a long term plan should be foremost for the County board to develop Laois hurling.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: LooseCannon on June 12, 2018, 08:35:52 AM
Think Arien has to be the favorite, Highly rated up in Camross, passionate Laois man and might even get a few of the Camross lads back on board.
I hear that he has a serious passion for money, and is a bit of a slippery fish.

http://www.uibhfhaili.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7117
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
Think Arien has to be the favorite, Highly rated up in Camross, passionate Laois man and might even get a few of the Camross lads back on board.
I hear that he has a serious passion for money, and is a bit of a slippery fish.

http://www.uibhfhaili.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7117
Slandering Arien again? You seem to have an issue with him.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Unlaoised on June 12, 2018, 10:14:33 AM
Poor season comes to an end with giving Meath and awful hammering why this form couldn't be repeated in them other games is just minding blowing...

The Carlow and Westmeath defeats were as bad as I seen in O'Moore park.

We should be in a final playing before Killkenny and Galway what a great occasion that would have been for Laois hurling! >:(
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on June 12, 2018, 12:29:27 PM
I think Cheddar should certainly be heading up the hunt for a new Manager but I don't think he should be the new manager. He was there for a few years and he was with the minors before that so someone with a slightly different approach and a new voice might be a wiser option.
Id love to see him try again with his blueprint for Laois hurling and for the Co board to realize their mistake and support Cheddars long term plan. He could also form part of the backroom team for the senior hurlers surveying things in the background, he would pick up on things and think outside the box in terms of drumming up interest in hurling, promoting it, planning the financial side of things.

This probably sounds harsh or unfair but I don't think the current panel are good enough to get us to where we want to go - that being able to compete in the leinster championship proper against Kilkenny and Wexford etc. They are good enough to win the McDonagh cup alright but are we happy with that? No is the answer to that so that's why I feel a long term plan should be foremost for the County board to develop Laois hurling.

The blueprint AND money from Croke Park to implement it. If CP are serious about the lesser counties, they need to back it. Stop doping Dublin and start sharing that €1.4m amongst other counties who actually need it now.

Cheddar's a smart man, so I'm sure the blueprint has been costed. Let Croke Park pay for it and see if it starts to bear fruit in 4/5/6 years time. I remember Cheddar on the radio a few years back, after we had just rattled Galway's cage, looking for funding and a Dub came on representing CP saying that there were finite resources available.

This in a period when Dublin has received €16.5m in funding, while the next nearest county has received less than €1m. It's a f**king disgrace what those c*nts have done to the organisation and it appears they won't stop until Dublin are winning All Ireland doubles for fun.

Look at the blueprint and get the c*nts in their ivory tower to stop telling us to eat cake and put their money with their big f**king mouths are.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: LooseCannon on June 12, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Think Arien has to be the favorite, Highly rated up in Camross, passionate Laois man and might even get a few of the Camross lads back on board.
I hear that he has a serious passion for money, and is a bit of a slippery fish.

http://www.uibhfhaili.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7117
Slandering Arien again? You seem to have an issue with him.
That’s just what the lads on uibhfhaili.com said. I’m simply relaying it, hence the link.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 12, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
I think Cheddar should certainly be heading up the hunt for a new Manager but I don't think he should be the new manager. He was there for a few years and he was with the minors before that so someone with a slightly different approach and a new voice might be a wiser option.
Id love to see him try again with his blueprint for Laois hurling and for the Co board to realize their mistake and support Cheddars long term plan. He could also form part of the backroom team for the senior hurlers surveying things in the background, he would pick up on things and think outside the box in terms of drumming up interest in hurling, promoting it, planning the financial side of things.

This probably sounds harsh or unfair but I don't think the current panel are good enough to get us to where we want to go - that being able to compete in the leinster championship proper against Kilkenny and Wexford etc. They are good enough to win the McDonagh cup alright but are we happy with that? No is the answer to that so that's why I feel a long term plan should be foremost for the County board to develop Laois hurling.

The blueprint AND money from Croke Park to implement it. If CP are serious about the lesser counties, they need to back it. Stop doping Dublin and start sharing that €1.4m amongst other counties who actually need it now.

Cheddar's a smart man, so I'm sure the blueprint has been costed. Let Croke Park pay for it and see if it starts to bear fruit in 4/5/6 years time. I remember Cheddar on the radio a few years back, after we had just rattled Galway's cage, looking for funding and a Dub came on representing CP saying that there were finite resources available.

This in a period when Dublin has received €16.5m in funding, while the next nearest county has received less than €1m. It's a f**king disgrace what those c*nts have done to the organisation and it appears they won't stop until Dublin are winning All Ireland doubles for fun.

Look at the blueprint and get the c*nts in their ivory tower to stop telling us to eat cake and put their money with their big f**king mouths are.

The Laois CB at any time in the past 10 years have not made any approach to Croke Park to get extra funding for hurling within the county.

In actual fact,Belfast received £1m recently for GAA activities nearly despite their own County Board

Often easier to blame the “suits up there” than actually put together a plan and then stay banging on the door till we get what we want.

Cheddars plan (which I would love to see) was scuppered by his own county not by Croke Park.

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 02:20:04 PM

Cheddars plan (which I would love to see) was scuppered by his own county not by Croke Park.
Incorrect. It was scuppered by both.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 12, 2018, 03:00:17 PM

Cheddars plan (which I would love to see) was scuppered by his own county not by Croke Park.
Incorrect. It was scuppered by both.

Incorrect

It didn’t have the backing of the county board and without the backing of the county board,it wasn’t going to be taken serious by anyone.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 03:36:59 PM

Cheddars plan (which I would love to see) was scuppered by his own county not by Croke Park.
Incorrect. It was scuppered by both.

Incorrect

It didn’t have the backing of the county board and without the backing of the county board,it wasn’t going to be taken serious by anyone.
Incorrect again. It was scuppered regardless of backing of CB.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 12, 2018, 03:51:13 PM

Cheddars plan (which I would love to see) was scuppered by his own county not by Croke Park.
Incorrect. It was scuppered by both.

Incorrect

It didn’t have the backing of the county board and without the backing of the county board,it wasn’t going to be taken serious by anyone.
Incorrect again. It was scuppered regardless of backing of CB.


Factually incorrect

There’s a process involved,

In its most simplistic form

A County Board sends in a proposal for funding and HQ decides to fund or not,based on the merits of the proposal

there was no application for funding from the Laois CB based on cheddars plan and HQ didn’t have to examine the proposal because it didn’t receive one.

Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 03:53:45 PM
Factually incorrect

There’s a process involved,

In its most simplistic form

A County Board sends in a proposal for funding and HQ decides to fund or not,based on the merits of the proposal

there was no application for funding from the Laois CB based on cheddars plan and HQ didn’t have to examine the proposal because it didn’t receive one.
Sorry you are incorrect once more. The plan moved to Croke Park where it was heard and refused regardless of the LCB involvement, which wasn't forthcoming anyway. This is fact.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 12, 2018, 03:59:35 PM
If the application for funding was turned down

There would have been a letter saying that it was declined and the reasons why


Let’s have sight of the letter then
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Giovanni on June 12, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
I don't know the ins and outs of Cheddar's Plan but according to Jack Nolan:

"Two years ago, after huge progress Cheddar Plunkett had a plan for Laois hurling. A Master Plan that would see Laois return to the top table. Planned and costed and with the backing of Croke Park it failed to get the backing of Laois County Board and it and Cheddar were gone.".

You can read the full article here:

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/06/jack-nolan-demise-of-laois-hurling-saddens-me-greatly/

I know Jack Nolan is not infallible but I think he knows pretty well what's going on.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 12, 2018, 04:58:36 PM
I think we need to bring in the Lawyers to solve this dispute!

Regardless, there was f*^k all done by the CB. They don't have anywhere near the level of vision and fight that is needed. They burnt out men like Cheddar who would probably run a mile from any offer to come back and lead us into the future.

Even now, they are under little or no pressure. Their statement after Kelly resigned: "We will work right away to a committee to appoint a manager" is the usual faceless, cowardly crap. Code for "sure we didn't appoint Kelly and sure aren't we appointing another group of lads now to blame for the next manager when that doesn't work".

Why aren't the clubs and the hurling men in the county calling for an emergency county convention to find out what went wrong with our minors, U21s and seniors this year? To find out why there is such poor representation on our senior county team from many of our Senior clubs? To find out why our hurling skills and standards are so low?

Nobody is doing anything. If we keep doing the same thing, we won't stand still, we will go backwards.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mossy Bruce on June 12, 2018, 05:33:13 PM
From Laois Today

"10 potential candidates for the Laois hurling manager’s job"
Arien Delaney
Paul Cuddy
Niall Rigney
Diarmuid Mullins
Niall Moran
DJ Carey
Tommy Buggy
Ken Hogan
Anthony Daly
Seamus ‘Cheddar’ Plunkett

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/12/10-potential-candidates-for-the-laois-hurling-managers-job/
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: merman on June 12, 2018, 05:52:04 PM
From Laois Today

"10 potential candidates for the Laois hurling manager’s job"
Arien Delaney
Paul Cuddy
Niall Rigney
Diarmuid Mullins
Niall Moran
DJ Carey
Tommy Buggy
Ken Hogan
Anthony Daly
Seamus ‘Cheddar’ Plunkett

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/12/10-potential-candidates-for-the-laois-hurling-managers-job/

It's telling that no journalist would actually put their name to that garbage.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: The PRO on June 12, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
From Laois Today

"10 potential candidates for the Laois hurling manager’s job"
Arien Delaney
Paul Cuddy
Niall Rigney
Diarmuid Mullins
Niall Moran
DJ Carey
Tommy Buggy
Ken Hogan
Anthony Daly
Seamus ‘Cheddar’ Plunkett

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2018/06/12/10-potential-candidates-for-the-laois-hurling-managers-job/

It's telling that no journalist would actually put their name to that garbage.
Get off the fence there merman 😁😁😁
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
If the application for funding was turned down

There would have been a letter saying that it was declined and the reasons why


Let’s have sight of the letter then
The plan was shelved by Croke Park. This is fact. Stop spreading untruths.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Don Draper on June 12, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
People asking for Chedd to come back have short memories. He was blackguarded by all and sundry in his time, clubs, county board and supporters alike. He warned us what was coming yet we still didn’t back him.

Shits come home to roost lads. We’d have some neck to go crawling to him now.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Mad Mentor on June 12, 2018, 10:08:33 PM
Ultimately the fault lies with every "hurling supporter" in the county. People don't bother to get involved and go to their clubs AGM. The same people get elected each year with very little change within any club. This apathy feeds upward into the county board which is merely a reflection of the clubs. Talk of setting up "structures" at underage to get more kids in and get them better coached falls down on the simple fact that it is very difficult to get people to take on coaching roles in clubs. The job usually falls to a couple of dads who take it on reluctantly as their own kids are involved and they may as well do it or no one will. These lads will typically spend two years at each age group and move up to the next age group as their kids get older, just as they were getting the hang of that age group. They now have to learn the ropes at the new age groups.
The same process happens at county "development" squad level.

The GDA's - who get heavily criticised - are willing to help any club upskill their coaches, but again the apathy from the clubs is palpable. There is a series of player pathway workshops on the go at the moment, but the buy-in and attendance from some clubs (including my own) is poor. Getting enough people each year to manage all the groups from u7 to u17 is a serious challenge to most clubs each year and the rate of burnout among underage coaches is high. It's a tough role these days.

The ideal in each club and at county level would be for each age group to have three to four experienced coaches who stay at that age group getting more experienced each year, and passing the young hurlers up the conveyor belt improving them all the way. The GDAs have tried to support this, but generally people (coaches) are only interested in the age group their own child is in. You may get a few current or ex hurlers wanting to get involved at u15 or u17 level, but not generally before.

I don't know if Cheddars plan has answers on how you get more people involved in club coaching, but unless it does, it's difficult to see how the county can improve. Laois being a small county means every club has to supply several county quality players whereas the likes of Kilkenny or Tipperary clubs have to supply a lot less.


It all comes back to the clubs. Get more people involved. More current players getting involved with younger teams. Pushing the county board to be better. But who are the clubs? The self same "hurling supporters who stand on the ditch and criticise or take to the keyboards on forums like this. I am heavily involved with my club and coaching. How many posters on this forum can say the same?


On a final note, although I have great respect for Cheddar and the work he put in, I recall a general feeling that he had taken the squad at the time as far as he was able. Unfortunately, we had no one to build on the solid foundations he had laid.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: finbar o tool on June 12, 2018, 10:40:37 PM
Ultimately the fault lies with every "hurling supporter" in the county. People don't bother to get involved and go to their clubs AGM. The same people get elected each year with very little change within any club. This apathy feeds upward into the county board which is merely a reflection of the clubs. Talk of setting up "structures" at underage to get more kids in and get them better coached falls down on the simple fact that it is very difficult to get people to take on coaching roles in clubs. The job usually falls to a couple of dads who take it on reluctantly as their own kids are involved and they may as well do it or no one will. These lads will typically spend two years at each age group and move up to the next age group as their kids get older, just as they were getting the hang of that age group. They now have to learn the ropes at the new age groups.
The same process happens at county "development" squad level.

The GDA's - who get heavily criticised - are willing to help any club upskill their coaches, but again the apathy from the clubs is palpable. There is a series of player pathway workshops on the go at the moment, but the buy-in and attendance from some clubs (including my own) is poor. Getting enough people each year to manage all the groups from u7 to u17 is a serious challenge to most clubs each year and the rate of burnout among underage coaches is high. It's a tough role these days.

The ideal in each club and at county level would be for each age group to have three to four experienced coaches who stay at that age group getting more experienced each year, and passing the young hurlers up the conveyor belt improving them all the way. The GDAs have tried to support this, but generally people (coaches) are only interested in the age group their own child is in. You may get a few current or ex hurlers wanting to get involved at u15 or u17 level, but not generally before.

I don't know if Cheddars plan has answers on how you get more people involved in club coaching, but unless it does, it's difficult to see how the county can improve. Laois being a small county means every club has to supply several county quality players whereas the likes of Kilkenny or Tipperary clubs have to supply a lot less.


It all comes back to the clubs. Get more people involved. More current players getting involved with younger teams. Pushing the county board to be better. But who are the clubs? The self same "hurling supporters who stand on the ditch and criticise or take to the keyboards on forums like this. I am heavily involved with my club and coaching. How many posters on this forum can say the same?


On a final note, although I have great respect for Cheddar and the work he put in, I recall a general feeling that he had taken the squad at the time as far as he was able. Unfortunately, we had no one to build on the solid foundations he had laid.

Excellent post, nail on the head.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 13, 2018, 11:32:56 AM
Ultimately the fault lies with every "hurling supporter" in the county. People don't bother to get involved and go to their clubs AGM. The same people get elected each year with very little change within any club. This apathy feeds upward into the county board which is merely a reflection of the clubs. Talk of setting up "structures" at underage to get more kids in and get them better coached falls down on the simple fact that it is very difficult to get people to take on coaching roles in clubs. The job usually falls to a couple of dads who take it on reluctantly as their own kids are involved and they may as well do it or no one will. These lads will typically spend two years at each age group and move up to the next age group as their kids get older, just as they were getting the hang of that age group. They now have to learn the ropes at the new age groups.
The same process happens at county "development" squad level.

The GDA's - who get heavily criticised - are willing to help any club upskill their coaches, but again the apathy from the clubs is palpable. There is a series of player pathway workshops on the go at the moment, but the buy-in and attendance from some clubs (including my own) is poor. Getting enough people each year to manage all the groups from u7 to u17 is a serious challenge to most clubs each year and the rate of burnout among underage coaches is high. It's a tough role these days.

The ideal in each club and at county level would be for each age group to have three to four experienced coaches who stay at that age group getting more experienced each year, and passing the young hurlers up the conveyor belt improving them all the way. The GDAs have tried to support this, but generally people (coaches) are only interested in the age group their own child is in. You may get a few current or ex hurlers wanting to get involved at u15 or u17 level, but not generally before.

I don't know if Cheddars plan has answers on how you get more people involved in club coaching, but unless it does, it's difficult to see how the county can improve. Laois being a small county means every club has to supply several county quality players whereas the likes of Kilkenny or Tipperary clubs have to supply a lot less.


It all comes back to the clubs. Get more people involved. More current players getting involved with younger teams. Pushing the county board to be better. But who are the clubs? The self same "hurling supporters who stand on the ditch and criticise or take to the keyboards on forums like this. I am heavily involved with my club and coaching. How many posters on this forum can say the same?


On a final note, although I have great respect for Cheddar and the work he put in, I recall a general feeling that he had taken the squad at the time as far as he was able. Unfortunately, we had no one to build on the solid foundations he had laid.

Excellent post, nail on the head.

Seconded. It won't happen organically though. It needs a centralizing force to pull it together. At each club with a strong GDA and at board level a leader who can mobilize. For now, my recommendation is that we all keep on giving a shit and get angry when we are talking about it - to our clubs, online, wherever. It does matter. Apathy is the worst thing that could happen. 
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: redsetanta on June 13, 2018, 12:32:09 PM
It has to be driven by the clubs. There's no other way of doing it and you need people from within pushing their own clubs. Anything to be said for another petition? Send it to county board.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: blueandwhite1 on June 13, 2018, 01:45:12 PM
Does any remember Willie Hyland's open letter a few years ago. That had a huge impact.

Personally, would be happy to sign a petition. Need someone to start one though!
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 13, 2018, 01:55:41 PM
If the application for funding was turned down

There would have been a letter saying that it was declined and the reasons why


Let’s have sight of the letter then
The plan was shelved by Croke Park. This is fact. Stop spreading untruths.

Except it wasn’t,which was borne out by what Jack Nolan said in his article also

You keep defending the county board though,there’s a good lad
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: clonadmad on June 13, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Ultimately the fault lies with every "hurling supporter" in the county. People don't bother to get involved and go to their clubs AGM. The same people get elected each year with very little change within any club. This apathy feeds upward into the county board which is merely a reflection of the clubs. Talk of setting up "structures" at underage to get more kids in and get them better coached falls down on the simple fact that it is very difficult to get people to take on coaching roles in clubs. The job usually falls to a couple of dads who take it on reluctantly as their own kids are involved and they may as well do it or no one will. These lads will typically spend two years at each age group and move up to the next age group as their kids get older, just as they were getting the hang of that age group. They now have to learn the ropes at the new age groups.
The same process happens at county "development" squad level.

The GDA's - who get heavily criticised - are willing to help any club upskill their coaches, but again the apathy from the clubs is palpable. There is a series of player pathway workshops on the go at the moment, but the buy-in and attendance from some clubs (including my own) is poor. Getting enough people each year to manage all the groups from u7 to u17 is a serious challenge to most clubs each year and the rate of burnout among underage coaches is high. It's a tough role these days.

The ideal in each club and at county level would be for each age group to have three to four experienced coaches who stay at that age group getting more experienced each year, and passing the young hurlers up the conveyor belt improving them all the way. The GDAs have tried to support this, but generally people (coaches) are only interested in the age group their own child is in. You may get a few current or ex hurlers wanting to get involved at u15 or u17 level, but not generally before.

I don't know if Cheddars plan has answers on how you get more people involved in club coaching, but unless it does, it's difficult to see how the county can improve. Laois being a small county means every club has to supply several county quality players whereas the likes of Kilkenny or Tipperary clubs have to supply a lot less.


It all comes back to the clubs. Get more people involved. More current players getting involved with younger teams. Pushing the county board to be better. But who are the clubs? The self same "hurling supporters who stand on the ditch and criticise or take to the keyboards on forums like this. I am heavily involved with my club and coaching. How many posters on this forum can say the same?


On a final note, although I have great respect for Cheddar and the work he put in, I recall a general feeling that he had taken the squad at the time as far as he was able. Unfortunately, we had no one to build on the solid foundations he had laid.

Well said,Sir

Apathy

Sums up where we are at,as someone who is also heavily involved underage with my club,I completely agree with the participation rates from some clubs being very poor with regard to the player pathway.

We now have 5 GDA’s in place,Kerry have 6.
Title: Re: 2018 Joe McDonagh Cup
Post by: Dave like the tv channel on June 13, 2018, 04:39:15 PM
Is Cheddar coaching Portlaoise this year?