Man Utd Thread:

[magpie seanie]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Agree 100%.

[toby47]

Tevez

[trailer]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Delusional. It's no more a top four side than I am a top 4 manager. There's a load of players who'd do well to hold down a place in last nights Burnley side. Rashford has been carrying them and now he's injured they're scuppered.

[johnnycool]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Agree 100%.

Read somewhere where Klopp decided that for the high press game he need to up the S&C of his teams as they were tiring out before the end of the game. I think he got some lad from here involved who's now moved on to a role in FIFA but the Liverpool workrate is second to none.
He then set about buying players to fit that mould. Salah, Mane (who wasn't cheap at the time, but now a bargain), Roberts was a bargain, Allison and VVD were his key big ticket buys and allowed him to play high tempo possession football with blistering pace on the break.

You get the impression that Utd seem to buy lads like Maguire, Sanchez, Pogpa etc etc to appease the fans or the manager at that time. No real joined up thinking.

I do think the lad James and wan bissaka might come good if they'd better players around them.

[Look-Up!]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

Ok so the top two teams in the PL dont have big brutes so to be one of the top teams you dont have to go down that route.

Exceptional physical condition should be a given at that level

I didn't say big brutes. A brute can be small. Conditioning does not equal fitness. Conditioning is obtained over years. Playing CF is the toughest role in a team and to lead the line for a top club takes exceptional physical and mental endurance. Utd threw out theirs and went with a kid. A proper manager would not start a season like has happened at Utd.

[Maroon Manc]

I can understand Seanie's stance on Ole, he's not on his own. Poch been available isn't helping matters either for Ole.

Who knows what went on last summer but I suspect Ole was restricted with what he could spend considering Maguire was only signed once Lukaku had been let go, I Just can't understand why Ole would have been happy with that squad. Look at that team that was put out last night, it doesn't matter who's in charge of that lot they are going to really struggle to score goals. United's front 6 contained Matic & Mata who are passed it, James who should be a bit part player and Periera who's amongst the worst player I've ever seen in nearly 35 years at United.

Don't be surprised if Woodward doesn't sanction any signings which in turn makes his job of sacking Ole a very easy decision. Woodward is a cretin who is well out of his depth.

[Look-Up!]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

This is what I'm inclined to lean towards. When fully fit Utd are an exceptionally talented counter attacking team. But Top 4 I have my doubts because they do not have a CF. Rashford however good he is is not a 9 (yet if ever). Top 4 however slim went out the window when Lukaku left without a replacement. And the situation won't change till they buy again.

[Maroon Manc]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

This is what I'm inclined to lean towards. When fully fit Utd are an exceptionally talented counter attacking team. But Top 4 I have my doubts because they do not have a CF. Rashford however good he is is not a 9 (yet if ever). Top 4 however slim went out the window when Lukaku left without a replacement. And the situation won't change till they buy again.

Don't necessarily agree with the lack of a centre forward. Rashford from wide left was on course for 30 goals this season before his injury. Whether Martial is a good enough centre forward to be winning big titles with I just don't know yet but one of United's is goals from elsewhere. Taking out the front 3 the rest just aren't contributing and that needs changing. For as much as I want rid of him Pogba got 16 goals last season, probably 4 or 5 were pens but at least he was contributing. James, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Fred & Matic have 7 goals between them I think and have probably played nearly 150 games between them.

Defensively is where I'd criticise Ole most.

[brokencrossbar1]

Poch was in Newry today...Man U to lose our to AFC Newry?

[Look-Up!]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

This is what I'm inclined to lean towards. When fully fit Utd are an exceptionally talented counter attacking team. But Top 4 I have my doubts because they do not have a CF. Rashford however good he is is not a 9 (yet if ever). Top 4 however slim went out the window when Lukaku left without a replacement. And the situation won't change till they buy again.

Don't necessarily agree with the lack of a centre forward. Rashford from wide left was on course for 30 goals this season before his injury. Whether Martial is a good enough centre forward to be winning big titles with I just don't know yet but one of United's is goals from elsewhere. Taking out the front 3 the rest just aren't contributing and that needs changing. For as much as I want rid of him Pogba got 16 goals last season, probably 4 or 5 were pens but at least he was contributing. James, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Fred & Matic have 7 goals between them I think and have probably played nearly 150 games between them.

Defensively is where I'd criticise Ole most.

If last night's viewing didn't convince you there's nothing I can say.
I guess it's a matter of opinion but IMO Utd have no CF. I've said this from start of season and nothing has changed my mind. In fact judging from some of Jose's comments from the punditry box since I'm more convinced.
They have talent and under the right conditions, mainly counter attacking, they will clock up the goals. Rashford was doing great although not sure he was on quite that high of a PL finish. Unfortunately for him games caught up with him and he needed a break before getting injured.

[Kingdom37]

What is Michael Carrick role in backroom team?

Same as Stan's at Walsall, laying out the training cones I imagine.

He is clueless. Same as a player when the chips were down,

[rodney trotter]

They were suppose to be getting a DOF over a year ago and still no progress.  Van der Sar was approached but staying at Ajax.  What about Rio?

[cadhlancian]

They were suppose to be getting a DOF over a year ago and still no progress.  Van der Sar was approached but staying at Ajax.  What about Rio?

Lol! Rio , the same boyo who wanted to give Ole the keys to the kingdom last year ?
Anyone have that famous video clip ?

[Taylor]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

Ok so the top two teams in the PL dont have big brutes so to be one of the top teams you dont have to go down that route.

Exceptional physical condition should be a given at that level

I didn't say big brutes. A brute can be small. Conditioning does not equal fitness. Conditioning is obtained over years. Playing CF is the toughest role in a team and to lead the line for a top club takes exceptional physical and mental endurance. Utd threw out theirs and went with a kid. A proper manager would not start a season like has happened at Utd.

So who is the brute that plays up front in the Man City or Liverpool team?

[GetOverTheBar]

They were suppose to be getting a DOF over a year ago and still no progress.  Van der Sar was approached but staying at Ajax.  What about Rio?

Lol! Rio , the same boyo who wanted to give Ole the keys to the kingdom last year ?
Anyone have that famous video clip ?

Ferdinand is an embarrassment. There was another clip with Neville asking Ole where he wanted the statue or something. Ex United players have really not helped.