The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?

[whitey]

But keep spinning.....the American people have finally figured out what the Democrats are all about and voted accordingly last November

Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

The American people don't elect the President....the Electoral College does and he won the electoral college by a wide margin

[whitey]

To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?

There's an element of truth that's taken completely out of context

It's exactly like when Republicans say that the Clinton campaign were the original birthers

[foxcommander]

Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

And celebrate Hillarys win with a cool glass of turnip juice

[seafoid]

Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million. "The American people" did not vote for Trump. "Keep spinning" indeed!

And celebrate Hillarys win with a cool glass of turnip juice

Trump is taking the piss. 50% of a $1.5 tn tax cut goes to the ultra rich who own half of all assets.

https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

[seafoid]

This is a great state of the nation

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/21/us-life-expectancy-down-for-second-year-in-a-row-amid-opioid-crisis

Life expectancy in the US has declined for the second year in a row as the opioid crisis continues to ravage the nation.

It is the first time in half a century that there have been two consecutive years of declining life expectancy.

Drug overdoses killed 63,600 Americans in 2016, an increase of 21% over the previous year, researchers at the National Center for Health Statistics found.

[J70]

To say this was a conservative idea is intellectually dishonest

How?

There's an element of truth that's taken completely out of context

It's exactly like when Republicans say that the Clinton campaign were the original birthers

If by "same" you mean that an influential conservative think tank (and, later, politicians such as the Speaker of the House) promoting a proposal from the late 80s through at least the mid 90s is the same as some kook joining with a campaign volunteer to try to sabotage a presidential candidate through frivolous law suits.

You seem very sensitive about the "binders full of women" comment, which suggests you were a strong supporter of Mitt Romney when he was governor of your state who signed an insurance mandate into law.

Forbes (hardly a bastion of liberalism) reported on an exchange between Romney and Newt Gingrich during the 2011 RNC presidential debates, where Gingrich admits to supporting the mandate idea, which according to the exchange, came out of the Heritage Foundation (the context at the time, if I remember correctly, was Gingrich's extended assault on Romney over various issues over a number of months, including "Romneycare" and the "vulture capitalism" of Bain Capital).

ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.

GINGRICH: That's not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but I'm just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn't true.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

ROMNEY: Oh, OK. That's what I'm saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

ROMNEY: OK.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#5f2ea1806187

The Forbes piece also includes comments by James Taranto, a high profile WSJ conservative writer who talks about the Heritage Foundation's embrace of the mandate (which he says he did not personally agree with at the time, even though he worked there).

And there is other material out there, including by Stuart Butler, the Heritage fellow who developed it. He later backtracked amidst the Obamacare debate and claimed that he was only talking about catastrophic coverage, but come on, the idea of a mandate is to pool the risk and costs, and serious illnesses and accidents that would come under "catastrophic" insurance is where all the big costs come from. That they weren't talking about mandating coverage to the same comprehensive level as Obamacare is a weak distinction. Besides, they left room in there for mandating additional coverage such as for preventative care and so on. As Taranto is quoted: " Whatever the particular differences, the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the Obamacare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company – something that Congress has never done before".

Whereas in terms of Clinton and birtherism, the strongest connection I can find is your man Philip Berger who filed all the law suits hooking up with Linda Starr, a Clinton campaign volunteer. Not Clinton herself. Not anyone high up in the campaign. Not any official campaign tactic or position.

[whitey]

Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

[J70]

Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

You're embarrassing yourself.

And where did I say it was the "official policy position of the Republican Party"?

[whitey]

you used the term "conservative proposal" as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans repealing the individual mandate.

I guess Im not surprised by your grammatical gyrations.....your support a party and ideology that actually tried to muddy the waters of an investigation by the debating the meaning of the word  "is".

You said what you said.  I dont quite understand why the backtracking

[J70]

you used the term "conservative proposal" as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans repealing the individual mandate.

I guess Im not surprised by your grammatical gyrations.....your support a party and ideology that actually tried to muddy the waters of an investigation by the debating the meaning of the word  "is".

You said what you said.  I dont quite understand why the backtracking

I haven't backtracked.

I still say it was a conservative proposal and my previous posts support that very strongly.

[screenexile]

Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

[Íseal agus crua isteach a]

Your one in the UN is fairly giving it both barrels today . . . fair play to her endorsing the oppression of 5 million people.

Go USA!!

If you have no money you will have no justice Jewmerica will see to that.

[Puckoon]

Believe what you want....if you think that was an official policy position of the Republican party thats your perogative, but in my view its just fake news and spin


Fact checkers judged this statement to be half true....if you want to hang your hat on half truths, well thats on you,



If I went back and looked at every think thank that ever advised the Democratic Party Im sure I could find some very interesting suggestions that never saw the light of day in any meaningful way

Maybe a good way to start squaring this endless circle is with some agreeable definitions.

What is a half truth?

What is fake news?

If it is a half truth that my wife had an affair - would I consider it to be fake news?

[whitey]

What's a "conservative"?

What's a "proposal"?