The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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whitey

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

screenexile

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

Rudi Giuliani literally has been travelling back and forth from the Ukraine over the past 6-8 months doing exactly that!!


J70

#16232
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.

Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

If there was legitimate reason to believe that Biden was potentially compromised by or conspiring with the Ukranians to influence the election, I would have no problem with the FBI opening an investigation or with a campaign or the source their contractor worked with passing on such information for them to look at. If Biden subsequently stonewalled the investigation at every turn and tried to undermine it and dangle pardons to encourage non-cooperation, I would have no problem with the negative publicity and congressional oversight it would invite. I might not like the outcome in that it would strengthen the chances of having to live under Republican policies, many of which I find abhorrent, but that's a separate issue. You lie down with dogs, you might get fleas.

whitey

Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.

And what about the Special Counsel investigation which was also  based in large part in the false dossier? What should happen with that.  Rose stein admitted under oath that he knew it was false, yet included it as justification for the appointment of the SC

And how about if all of Trumps spokespersons has gone on air 24/7 regurgitating elements of the debunked Biden dossier that they knew to be false.....you'd be fine with that too?

This

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Fair enough, And what if the allegations against Biden were mainly unfounded and were in fact Russian disinformation fed to Trumps campaign proxy  by Russian Intelligence, how would you feel about that dossier being used as the basis to wiretap Bidens campaign (and the agents involved did everything in the process to conceal the true origin of the document from the FISA court)

That's a separate issue. Investigate it, and if it is suspected there was deliberate wrong doing, prosecute those agents.

And what about the Special Counsel investigation which was also  based in large part in the false dossier? What should happen with that.  Rose stein admitted under oath that he knew it was false, yet included it as justification for the appointment of the SC

And how about if all of Trumps spokespersons has gone on air 24/7 regurgitating elements of the debunked Biden dossier that they knew to be false.....you'd be fine with that too?

This

There was plenty of other grounds for the special counsel, not just the dossier.

REP. GOWDY: I actually don't think it has any impact on the Russia probe for this reason —

MARGARET BRENNAN: The memo has no impact on the Russia probe?

REP. GOWDY: No-- not to me, it doesn't — and I was pretty integrally involved in the drafting of it. There is a Russia investigation without a dossier. So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there's going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.


https://www.npr.org/2018/02/04/583122003/gowdy-there-s-going-to-be-a-russia-probe-even-without-a-dossier

whitey

And what would you say to the former members of Trumps National Security team who publicly state on National TV that the Biden Ukrainian dossier is true, but while under oath admit that very little of it is true


And what about the Republican congressional candidate, ( a former member of Trumps National Security Team) who goes on Morning Joe and claims she saw evidence with her own Two eyes of the Biden's colluding with Ukraine, yet under oath admits she saw no such evidence.

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
And what would you say to the former members of Trumps National Security team who publicly state on National TV that the Biden Ukrainian dossier is true, but while under oath admit that very little of it is true

And what about the Republican congressional candidate, ( a former member of Trumps National Security Team) who goes on Morning Joe and claims she saw evidence with her own Two eyes of the Biden's colluding with Ukraine, yet under oath admits she saw no such evidence.

How many more of these are there going to be?

Just post the actual thing you're on about and be done with it.

J70

"Today I'm identifying houses of worship - churches, synagogues and mosques - as essential places that provide essential services," Trump said during a hastily arranged press conference Friday. He said if governors don't abide by his request, he will "override" them.

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/story/42164970/president-trump-calls-on-churches-to-reopen-this-weekend

Someone is getting notions about the extent of his power.

whitey

Jaysus.....did you see poor Crazy Uncle Joe put his foot in it big time today

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
Jaysus.....did you see poor Crazy Uncle Joe put his foot in it big time today

What did he say?

J70

'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!

Gmac

Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!
joe needs to put the shades back on and head to the basement again.
The problem with voting for joe and he has said it himself is he is only a seat filler and his Vice President will be running the country in a matter of months or a year after the election.

J70

#16244
Quote from: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 08:20:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

Poorly worded, to say the least!
joe needs to put the shades back on and head to the basement again.
The problem with voting for joe and he has said it himself is he is only a seat filler and his Vice President will be running the country in a matter of months or a year after the election.

Biden is a gaffe machine. Thankfully they're mostly relatively harmless, either word salad a la GW Bush or dinosaur flashbacks to another time.

I remember there being quite a few nerves about how he'd handle Palin in their debate in 2008, but he managed to pull it off without sticking his foot in it.

I honestly don't remember anything about him and Ryan in 2012.

This time out... we'll see.

Like I've said here before, the lockdown has actually been kind to him. He'll have to start venturing out soon, at least into the media.