The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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sid waddell

Quote from: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:08:46 PM
Acccording to the latest polling, Joe Biden leads Donald Trump 81-3 (eighty one - three) among blacks.

Usually, the margin of error with polls such as these is 3%, so it's statistically possible Trump could be on 0% with blacks.

Could anybody maybe try to explain why Donald Trump and the Republican party in general have such consistently terrible ratings among black people?

What are the reasons for this, like?
Any takers?

Can't believe the Trumpbots don't have a opinion on this, they seem to have an opinion on everything they else they know SFA about!

sid waddell

When are we going to see the transcripts of the conversations between the two agents of the Kremlin, Flynn and Kislyak?

And why not show the transcripts of the other agents of the Kremlin, Trump and Putin said to each other?


sid waddell

Trump playing to Nazis again:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1263574148451729408

Acyn Torabi
@Acyn
· 2h
The President says the founder of Ford has good bloodlines.. If you're not familiar with Henry Ford, I would encourage you to read more about him and specifically his actions during WW2

https://twitter.com/jewishaction/status/1263589484559360001

Bend the Arc: Jewish Action
@jewishaction
·
1h
Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer who wrote "The International Jew, the World's Foremost Problem."

Hitler called Ford an "inspiration" & gave him the highest Nazi medal for foreigners.

Trump praising Ford's "good bloodlines" = a dog-whistle to antisemites & white nationalists.

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?

J70

Quote from: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 12:43:38 AM
When are we going to see the transcripts of the conversations between the two agents of the Kremlin, Flynn and Kislyak?

And why not show the transcripts of the other agents of the Kremlin, Trump and Putin said to each other?

They're fighting hard to keep the Mueller grand jury redactions secret too.

whitey

#16220
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?

Them main elements of the dossier were fabrications and exaggerations. The dossier was initiated by and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. It was used by the FBI to surveil a campaign and by the media undermine a duly elected president.

And you are okay with all that....,






Gmac

Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?
if the Russians were feeding Steele with false information to hurt trump then how would trump be colluding with Russia to get elected  at the same time , was Vlad just sitting back laughing at the whole lot of them .

Eamonnca1

Quote from: sid waddell on May 21, 2020, 11:56:51 PM
Pretty appropriate summing up of the last poster.



Oh come on. Truth4freedom.wordpress.com says it, so it HAS to be true!

J70

#16223
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 02:51:53 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?

Them main elements of the dossier were fabrications and exaggerations. The dossier was initiated by and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. It was used by the FBI to surveil a campaign and by the media undermine a duly elected president.

And you are okay with all that....,

So it wasn't fabricated by the campaign. You're repeatedly on here saying it was fabricated by the campaign as if Hillary Clinton and John Podesta sat down themselves and made shit up out of whole cloth. And as if Trump was some innocent boy scout who had never even heard of Russia but was nonetheless being falsely maligned by the darkest, most malevalent conspiracy ever to be unleashed on the political landscape of America. Steele went to the FBI due to HIS concerns about what he was learning. NOT the Clinton campaign. Or Fusion GPS (who were initially hired by and started looking into Trump and Russia at the behest of a Republican).

You really think if the Clinton campaign knew the FBI was investigating Trump during the campaign it wouldn't have been screaming about it? How come Comey kept THAT little nugget secret, but not Weiner's laptop? Why was the NYC FBI office not leaking stuff to the Clintons instead of Giuliani in the run-up to the election?

And I've never said I was ok with false allegations.

However, this absolutely doesn't keep me up at night because it is virtually impossible to know what's true and what's not. Multiple investigations have found that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, including those of the McConnell-led Senate. Trump's people DID meet with the Russians to try to get dirt. Manafort had all kinds of dodgy and corrupt connections with Russian and Ukranian oligarchs and interests. Trump himself has financial ties to Russia and is completely opaque about his finances beyond the boasting and bluster about his wealth (they were in the f**king Supreme Court last week still trying to keep everything secret). Mueller reported repeated lies and obstruction by Trump and his associates when it came to their contacts with Russia, wikileaks and so on. Shocking that you can't prove something when everyone circles the wagons and you can't follow the money. And when of course the big man himself couldn't be interviewed because.. you know... perjury trap! I could go on...

J70

Quote from: Gmac on May 22, 2020, 04:05:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2020, 11:18:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
J70...I understand and appreciate people's outrage toward Trump

But how you guys can idly sit back and not be similarly outraged with what the Democrats  pulled off with the phony dossier, is as outrageous  as anything that Trump has ever said or done

Even if the dossier were true - it pales into comparison to what Trump has done.

How on earth can you be so blind as to not see that?!?

One campaign fabricates a opposition research report and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents who wiretap the other campaign. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

So it was FABRICATED by the Clintons now, is that the current allegation?

It was paid for by the DNC and Robbie Mook, Clinton's campaign manager got the invoice, but I'm sure you won't believe it because it's not on CNN or the NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truth4freedom.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/huge-clinton-campaign-attorney-mark-elias-admitted-in-testimony-he-sent-the-bill-from-fusion-gps-for-dossier-directly-to-campaign-manager-robbie-mook-the-gateway-pundit/amp/

You said "fabricated".

Eh...the information in the dossier was fabricated by by Steele and Fusion GPS, leaked to the media and the FBI. Was then used by the FBI as the basis for FISA warrants (where the FBI then perjured themselves and forged documents to hoodwink the FISA court)

You said the campaign fabricated it. You're saying the Democratic Party acted way worse than Watergate in this affair.

From what I've read, some of the stuff was corroborated, other stuff was either falsely fed to Steele by the Russians or exaggerated by him or both.

Is there evidence that the campaign fabricated it? Is there evidence that Fusion GPS did so? Is there hard evidence at this point that Steele did so?
if the Russians were feeding Steele with false information to hurt trump then how would trump be colluding with Russia to get elected  at the same time , was Vlad just sitting back laughing at the whole lot of them .

Possibly.

Or maybe Russian sources aren't all a single homogeneous body with the same motivations and interests. Spying and intelligence gathering wouldn't work very well if everything in each country was being tightly controlled by the man at the head of the government, would it?

whitey

Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

RadioGAAGAA

#16226
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?
i usse an speelchekor

J70

Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 22, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Wow-that's some interpretation of "facts" J70. They commissioned it, they paid for it and they leaked it and it was (almost) all nonsense. It was used to rogue FBI agents to surveil an opponents campaign.

The fact you and everyone else on here don't see anything wrong with this is very disturbing

If there is something wrong with my interpretation, address it.

So if the Trump campaign hires and pays an oppo research firm to go to the Ukraine and generate a dossier of unverified and outrageous allegations against Joe Biden you'll be on board with that.


Then let's say the Trump campaign (or the oppo research firm they employed), then shares that research with rogue elements within the FBI who then  use it as the basis for FISA warrants to wiretap the Biden campaign you'd also be on board with that.

Then let's say these rogue FBI agents committed 17 "errors" during the FISA application process, which include forgery, perjury and concealment.....many of which were designed to conceal the true nature and origin of the dossier from the FISA judges  you'd be on board with that

And then to top it off the dossier becomes a key element to open a Special Counsel investigation of newly elected President Biden and anyone associated with him. The scope of the SC nvestigation is so broad that they can essentially go back decades and investigate all sorts of things completely unrelated to what's in the dossier, you'll be on board with that

Gmac

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
One campaign fabricates a opposition research report[1] and then feeds it to rogue FBI agents[2] who wiretap the other campaign[3]. That puts Watergate in the hapenny place

Can you supply citations for [1], [2] & [3] please?


Again - even if all that you allege is true - it still pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has done.


edit: Also, if I am interpreting it right, could that be written as:
- Political party hires private investigators to investigate a political opponent with questionable background[11].
- Investigation reports worrying activity which may be criminal in nature[12].
- Political party then hands the report off to criminal investigators due to the issues raised[13].
- Criminal investigators then investigate that opponent as they see fit[14]

[11] as opposed to using their political influence to get law enforcement to do their bidding.
[12] leaving aside the competence of the investigators, the political party are not in a position to judge that.
[13] as opposed to hiding potential evidence into serious criminal activity?
[14] should the political party that started the private investigation then interfere with a criminal investigation?


What should they have done differently? Put yourself in their shoes and assume that you have serious misgivings about a political opponent, what would you do?
was trump not just impeached for that ?