China Coronavirus

[seafoid]

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/09/millennials-generation-z-coronavirus-scapegoating-beach-parties-bars-inequality-cvd

[highorlow]

Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.

[thewobbler]

Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.

There is no proof of anything, yet.

Like yourself I've more admiration of Sweden's approach than the rest of Europe.

But you're far, far too early to be proclaiming "victory".

[highorlow]

Sweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.

[sid waddell]

If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself

[thewobbler]

If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself

Nobody knows. Not even you.

[sid waddell]

Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.

Shouting "snowflakes" is not an argument

The most basic function of government is to protect its citizens

Situations such as a pandemic throw that function sharply into focus - any government which decides that the economy is the main concern, rather than public health and actual real lives, in the face of a pandemic of a new disease about which little is known, is quite clearly irresponsible

This is about basic morals

Nevertheless, let's have a look at a couple of key statistics - the two statistics that have been most used to justify Sweden's policy

Covid deaths per million:
Sweden: 580
Denmark: 110
Finland: 61
Norway: 49

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Economic decline in quarter 2 2020:
Sweden: 8.6%
Denmark: 7.4%
Norway: 7.1% (March to May)
Finland: 3.2%

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?r=US&IR=T

Sweden failed

[sid waddell]

If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself

Nobody knows. Not even you.

For somebody so opinionated you have a tendency to go strangely quiet when faced with questions you don't like

I guess that's the beauty of being an internet expert, you can sound off based on nothing while simultaneously having no responsibility whatsoever, and then go quiet when you feel like it

I wouldn't have thought these questions would even need a high degree of expertise to have a reasonably good guess at, especially that we now have six months of experience of seeing a pandemic evolve in real time

[Blowitupref]

Sweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.

If it came to point scoring you would be 1000s of points behind with your posts like this at the start of this thread.

It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

[sid waddell]

The anti-restrictions nutcases are losing it, assaulting Varadkar now

https://twitter.com/RadioCleary/status/1306964772412362753

[thewobbler]

Sid, once again. The major difference between us, exhibited quite clearly.

I don't pretend to know answers. All I know is that when someone (usually you) is determined to paint a grey issue as a black and white one, then they should be corrected.

Whereas you, you believe that you know everything, and that when your monster brain has settled into a belief pattern, that it is your duty to defend and protect that viewpoint at all costs.

——

I can't answers those questions. I made that clear. And my other point was, neither can you.

Stop pretending otherwise you complete f**king clown.

[sid waddell]

Sid, once again. The major difference between us, exhibited quite clearly.

I don't pretend to know answers. All I know is that when someone (usually you) is determined to paint a grey issue as a black and white one, then they should be corrected.

Whereas you, you believe that you know everything, and that when your monster brain has settled into a belief pattern, that it is your duty to defend and protect that viewpoint at all costs.

——

I can't answers those questions. I made that clear. And my other point was, neither can you.

Stop pretending otherwise you complete f**king clown.

The questions I posed are very reasonable

If I wanted to read somebody who has no other aim other than to desperately try and discredit any objective truth, clearly has no interest in even finding out objective truth on anything, and sees the world entirely through straw men, I'd read Spiked Online or Sputnik

If you can't have a stab at even imagining what the consequences of a herd immunity strategy, so beloved of so many internet experts, might be, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to comment here

The phrase sometimes used by another poster on this forum - that it's good to keep an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out, often comes to mind when I read your posts

[Taylor]

Sweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.

If it came to point scoring you would be 1000s of points behind with your posts like this at the start of this thread.

It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

[thewobbler]

Sid, you have absolutely no idea how things would have panned out had Covid been allowed to "let rip".

You unilaterally believe things would have been worse.

Yet Sweden's approach suggests it might have been the same - devastation in care homes, but much less deadly than expected in every other facet of society. And there's a word of headscratching going on about why Africa isn't just still standing, but was remarkably unaffected.

So forgive me for pointing out, yet again, that you can't claim to know the answers here. All you have are suspicions that you want to be true to prove how smart you are. But you are coming across as a blinkered fool.

[sid waddell]

"Otherwise, the population of 10 million was asked, rather than ordered, to respect physical distancing and work from home if possible, which it largely did."

How would people in Ireland etc react to being asked to not mix in pubs etc? It would've been carnage. We are a much more militant population than the Scandinavians I would suggest.

40% of households in Sweden are single person households

Only 23.5% of households in Eire were single person households as of 2016

I expect this statistic would have been a major driver of Sweden's policy as it enabled a much greater degree of physical distancing

But that policy still failed there, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that it would have failed in a bigger way here

It seems clear in Ireland that there are two opposing pull forces - NPHET and the medical experts pulling for public health, and the business lobby pulling towards opening up - a large body of online commenting has been pulling increasingly heavily for opening up

But we now see what happens when non-experts gain too much influence

There is a clear link between public health and economic health - and they are complementary

Better public health means better economic health

Poorer public health means poorer economic health

Sadly, since the start of this pandemic, we have been consistently presented with a fake choice - public health versus economic health

It has been pushed relentlessly

But this binary choice was a lie, it was a fake