Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

[trueblue1234]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

[trueblue1234]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..

I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...

a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers

Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...

[Armagh18]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..

I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...

a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers

Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...

Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.

It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up. 

[Main Street]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exclusive-russia-is-prepared-quit-black-sea-grains-deal-writes-un-with-demands-2022-10-13/

Typical Kremlin stunt, signs an internationally brokered deal and the next month threatens to break the deal, cannot be trusted. " Russia is prepared to quit Black Sea grains deal, writes to UN with demands"

[tbrick18]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..

I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...

a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers

Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...

Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.

It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up.

I'd agree with a lot of this.
America only ever considers its own interests and in many cases across the globe I can see why they are considered as the agressor and a terrorist state.
UK not far behind in saying that.
But, is the course of action in Ukraine right? I believe it is. What is the alternative? You can't negotiate with and agressor who refuses to negotiate or cede any ground let alone pull out of ground they have illegally taken.
The only option is to fight back.
Ukraine on it's own can't do it, and if one NATO country gets involved directly it opens the door to a World War where Nuclear weapons are at play. So the next best option is to support Ukraine with weapons and finance.  There is no good solution here.....only a least worst solution.

Palestine is another story. Isreal, as a state, should in my opinion be considered a terrorist state with how they treat palestinians. The comparison with Nazism isnt far wrong, yet the US will not step in to support the Palestinians as poitically on US soil there is too large of an Isreali lobby to go against. No-one else wants to square up to a US/Isreali pact so the Palestinians are left to fend for themselves with nowhere near enough finance, weaponry, international support. I've no idea what can be done to resolve that, but it's fundamentally wrong.

[Rossfan]

Spot on tbrick.

[imtommygunn]

The school of thought by some is this is actually an action by Biden / America to essentially get rid of Putin. (That is not me saying that I agree with what is being said but I try to read more than one side to these stories).

[Armagh18]

The school of thought by some is this is actually an action by Biden / America to essentially get rid of Putin. (That is not me saying that I agree with what is being said but I try to read more than one side to these stories).

That's where it will likely end up whether that was the intention or not. Russia did start this though.

[imtommygunn]

Yeah I would share that view. There is a bit in what PHP says here too. It's a bit like the Madeline McCann disappearance for me. This is obviously a horrible situation , just like that, but there feels like a disproportionate slant towards this war over others like her disappearance over others for whatever reason.

I still agree they need support. Also there would be the worry if Putin destroys Ukraine where / when does he stop.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..

I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...

a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers

Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...

Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.

It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up.

I'd agree with a lot of this.
America only ever considers its own interests and in many cases across the globe I can see why they are considered as the agressor and a terrorist state.
UK not far behind in saying that.
But, is the course of action in Ukraine right? I believe it is. What is the alternative? You can't negotiate with and agressor who refuses to negotiate or cede any ground let alone pull out of ground they have illegally taken.
The only option is to fight back.
Ukraine on it's own can't do it, and if one NATO country gets involved directly it opens the door to a World War where Nuclear weapons are at play. So the next best option is to support Ukraine with weapons and finance.  There is no good solution here.....only a least worst solution.

Palestine is another story. Isreal, as a state, should in my opinion be considered a terrorist state with how they treat palestinians. The comparison with Nazism isnt far wrong, yet the US will not step in to support the Palestinians as poitically on US soil there is too large of an Isreali lobby to go against. No-one else wants to square up to a US/Isreali pact so the Palestinians are left to fend for themselves with nowhere near enough finance, weaponry, international support. I've no idea what can be done to resolve that, but it's fundamentally wrong.

has anyone any concerns for the civilians in the donbass since 2014? thinking the start of the conflict was in February is misguided... this has being brewing for a while and again efforts at peace were not enough...

there is no reason not to talk peace or have negotiations. you or i have no clue what russia will or wont accept... if you dont want peace  you 100% won't achieve peace..While you say Russia doesn't want it, it very clear the US and Europe don't want it either. And just to be clear again that doesn't mean  Russia winning or Ukraine losing.

NATO is in Ukraine, has been in Ukraine and will continue in Ukraine, NATO are a major problem in resolution. to be clear, not providing 100% or near that of what it is capable of.

as for palestine, what's Europe's excuse?

[trueblue1234]

Failed attempt to hijack thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...

keep up the cheerleading...

in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them. 

You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.

They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...

So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.

they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions...  only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.

I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...

They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?

why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..

I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...

a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers

Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...

Open a thread on The West's inconsistency. You'd prob find that most agree with you. But that doesn't mean their intervention was wrong this time.
With regards to not having the answer, imo was little option for the Ukraine to achieve peace without ceding  sovereign territory. And I would not expect them to agree to this. The sham referendums in the taken areas are just that, a complete sham. Once Russian had mobilised it was a decision for the west to either support Ukraine or let Russian annex them completely and set up a puppet state for themselves. Those were the two options. Without the intervention, the Ukraine would not have withstood the Russian Army. That's why attempts for peace will struggle. Trying to negotiate peace at that stage with a successful Russian invasion would have been impossible. Russia would have dictated the terms.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years?  did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.