Money, Dublin and the GAA

Started by IolarCoisCuain, October 04, 2016, 07:27:37 PM

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manfromdelmonte

Millions being spent in Dublin and yet small rural clubs barely able to field due to government and GAA policy
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/times-up-famous-gaa-club-calls-for-rule-change-amid-struggle-to-field-senior-team-37841559.html
and before you ask why is it he GAA's fault?
because they haven't bothered to put in place rural development plans which would ensure small rural clubs remain viable.

Valencia island might seem like a far flung place from Dublin but this issue is happening in clubs in the midlands and in the west
club players are walking away from the game at 18/19

mup

Quote from: dublin7 on February 21, 2019, 08:16:30 PM
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

The Hill is Blue

Quote from: mup on February 24, 2019, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 21, 2019, 08:16:30 PM
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren't "up in arms" when it came to Donegal's proposal last Saturday.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

Hound

Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 21, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2019, 07:28:28 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on February 20, 2019, 05:19:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 20, 2019, 05:03:32 PM
Again, you're just not listening because you've no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It's moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He's an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We'd no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We'd no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O'Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin's biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I've said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we've no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we're going to miss Clucko when he's gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don't go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there's a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i'd say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn't impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we'd just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it's a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn't being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids' coaching/playing.
Games development fund was something like 1.3m to Dublin last year.
About 90 GDOs at 14k comes to close to that.
They spend half their time in schools (funded by games development funds) and half their time with the club (funded by club members) is how I understand it works.

mup

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on February 24, 2019, 08:34:31 PM
Quote from: mup on February 24, 2019, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 21, 2019, 08:16:30 PM
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren't "up in arms" when it came to Donegal's proposal last Saturday.

One wonders why. It doesn't make sense.

From the Bunker

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on February 24, 2019, 08:34:31 PM
Quote from: mup on February 24, 2019, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 21, 2019, 08:16:30 PM
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren't "up in arms" when it came to Donegal's proposal last Saturday.

The 60% that voted have little or no hope of making the Super 8's. So they are happy to just take the money like any whore would. Fair dues to Dublin CEO John Costello who stayed out of the argument and did not try to influence the vote in Dublins favour.

highorlow

The GAA appear to have mastered the "event". Dublin games are becoming events now and nights out for gangs. There were even a few stag parties around the place.

The game is becoming a nonsense at this stage.

Anyway fair play to Dublin and congratulations on the 5 in a row.
They get momentum, they go mad, here they go

From the Bunker

Quote from: highorlow on February 24, 2019, 10:12:29 PM
The GAA appear to have mastered the "event". Dublin games are becoming events now and nights out for gangs. There were even a few stag parties around the place.

The game is becoming a nonsense at this stage.

Anyway fair play to Dublin and congratulations on the 5 in a row.

Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Hound on February 24, 2019, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 21, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2019, 07:28:28 AM
Quote from: priceyreilly on February 20, 2019, 05:19:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 20, 2019, 05:03:32 PM
Again, you're just not listening because you've no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It's moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He's an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We'd no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We'd no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O'Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin's biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I've said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we've no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we're going to miss Clucko when he's gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don't go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there's a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i'd say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn't impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we'd just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it's a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn't being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids' coaching/playing.
Games development fund was something like 1.3m to Dublin last year.
About 90 GDOs at 14k comes to close to that.
They spend half their time in schools (funded by games development funds) and half their time with the club (funded by club members) is how I understand it works.
Yes, that's what I've been led to believe also.
The trouble is that I see no sign of serious GAA activity in the few schools I stay in touch with. There well may be others that employ coaches but I imagine I would have heard about them by now. In my former school, the local GAA club did provide some coaching okay but that was before the GDO scheme started.
ASAIK, the club paid half the wages of the two lads involved and Fas paid the rest. They also went to matches and looked after the playing side of things while a few ladies were the official supervisors. (Needed for insurance purposes.)
I don't know who lost interest first, kids or teachers, but the scheme wound down after a few years.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

highorlow

Quote[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?/quote]

Yes that's what I was referring to.
They get momentum, they go mad, here they go

From the Bunker

#1660
Quote from: highorlow on February 24, 2019, 10:35:13 PM
Quote[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Yes that's what I was referring to.

Gave up going to watch Mayo last year. Just before the Connacht Final. The disgust and conflict were taking away the enjoyment. There were just to many things wrong that it was hard to ignore them anymore.  It hard when you love something but you know in your heart and sole that there is a Financial doped monster like Dublin and you are only contributing to making it bigger. It was not an easy decision, I lived GAA. Anyway I look from a distance anymore. Friends who are still on the (false) bandwagon don't want to hear reality. The silence says it all when you put your views to them. They still live in their romantic view of the GAA. A GAA of the people. Hah!

I don't feel sorry for myself. I've had great days out with Mayo. What worries me is I have 3 kids 11,10 and 7 and I won't be bringing them to games. They are not going to get the bug! Not from me anyway. How could you introduce them to this? They play and love the game for the club and i will encourage that.

highorlow

#1661
As FTB says I felt the same a few years back but chose to ignore it.

What sticks in the memory for me is a few years ago at the back of the hogan stand where we go for pints at half time on peoples eyleline (beside the "crossbar"plastic pint place) is a memorable plaque to the victims of Bloody Sunday of 1920 and looking down upon it was an advert for king crisps "king of the hill" it said with Berno in full pose.

I'm probably getting too old and too cynical but I feel my game our game the games we were reared on are slowly slipping into a corporate rugby type NFL type trap.

The soul I'm afraid is eroding.




They get momentum, they go mad, here they go

TheGreatest

Quote from: From the Bunker on February 24, 2019, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 24, 2019, 10:35:13 PM
Quote[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Yes that's what I was referring to.

Gave up going to watch Mayo last year. Just before the Connacht Final. The disgust and conflict were taking away the enjoyment. There were just to many things wrong that it was hard to ignore them anymore.  It hard when you love something but you know in your heart and sole that there is a Financial doped monster like Dublin and you are only contributing to making it bigger. It was not an easy decision, I lived GAA. Anyway I look from a distance anymore. Friends who are still on the (false) bandwagon don't want to hear reality. The silence says it all when you put your views to them. They still live in their romantic view of the GAA. A GAA of the people. Hah!

I don't feel sorry for myself. I've had great days out with Mayo. What worries me is I have 3 kids 11,10 and 7 and I won't be bringing them to games. They are not going to get the bug! Not from me anyway. How could you introduce them to this? They play and love the game for the club and i will encourage that.

Is that because the players can pick the team and influence managerial selections for finals?

A disgrace they are. Some of those players should be put of the panel.


TheGreatest

Also the club should come first, Inter county is a part of a wider GAA, don't give up just because of the politics in Mayo football.

From the Bunker

Quote from: TheGreatest on February 26, 2019, 01:37:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 24, 2019, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 24, 2019, 10:35:13 PM
Quote[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Yes that's what I was referring to.

Gave up going to watch Mayo last year. Just before the Connacht Final. The disgust and conflict were taking away the enjoyment. There were just to many things wrong that it was hard to ignore them anymore.  It hard when you love something but you know in your heart and sole that there is a Financial doped monster like Dublin and you are only contributing to making it bigger. It was not an easy decision, I lived GAA. Anyway I look from a distance anymore. Friends who are still on the (false) bandwagon don't want to hear reality. The silence says it all when you put your views to them. They still live in their romantic view of the GAA. A GAA of the people. Hah!

I don't feel sorry for myself. I've had great days out with Mayo. What worries me is I have 3 kids 11,10 and 7 and I won't be bringing them to games. They are not going to get the bug! Not from me anyway. How could you introduce them to this? They play and love the game for the club and i will encourage that.

Is that because the players can pick the team and influence managerial selections for finals?

A disgrace they are. Some of those players should be put of the panel.


Can you translate that into English?