Shoot to Kill 1982

Started by Donagh, June 29, 2007, 01:09:46 AM

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Donagh

Got a mail today with a preview of a website to be launched soon dealing with the 'Shoot To Kill' incidents in the early 80's. Some of you may remember it through the enquiry headed by John Stalker, which although had it's report suppressed, he later gave us a glimpse in memoirs of how the state police were prepared to murder and collude with murderers in order to hit back at the natives:

http://www.banuanlae.org/

Gaoth Dobhair Abu

Just had a look at the site there Donagh - very provocative and well written and laid out. Should be excellent when complete and launched - well worth a look - an education!
Tbc....

Fiodoir Ard Mhacha

Disgusting to find out that the findings of Stalker's report have never been released.

Of course, his removal from the enquiry, just as his report was about to be released, was the final act in a long, dirty campaign by the 'British establishment'.
"Something wrong with your eyes?....
Yes, they're sensitive to questions!"

GweylTah

I think people who put together websites like the one linked to, or others like it, need to ask themselves whether they consider what went on here was a war (as they have frequently called it) or not.

If it was a war, then those who died while fighting it, can have no qualms about that the enemy did in the fight.  Not unless they want their own roles (and what they are upto now) examined and re-examined.

I wonder when the site will have a link to Willie Frazer's Prod version of Relatives for Justice, as far as I can see, neither acknowledges the pain and suffering of 'the other side', nor do the respective organisations highlight any victims of loyalist terrorists (in Willie's caxse) or republican terrorists (in the case of RFJ).  Funny that.

Funny, too, that those who preach so much about moving-on, don't take their own advice.  Selective moving-on is what they're after.

Perhaps a South African-style Truth Commission, bringing out ALL the dirt, is just what the doctor ordered. But then some people wouldn't want that either, it could make them very uncomfortable, very very uncomfortable.

Fiodoir Ard Mhacha

Quote from: GweylTah on June 29, 2007, 11:19:23 AM
If it was a war, then those who died while fighting it, can have no qualms about that the enemy did in the fight.  Not unless they want their own roles (and what they are upto now) examined and re-examined.

But was it a war declared on both sides? If not, then how could anyone justify state-sponsored executions?
"Something wrong with your eyes?....
Yes, they're sensitive to questions!"

lynchbhoy

Quote from: GweylTah on June 29, 2007, 11:19:23 AM
I think people who put together websites like the one linked to, or others like it, need to ask themselves whether they consider what went on here was a war (as they have frequently called it) or not.

If it was a war, then those who died while fighting it, can have no qualms about that the enemy did in the fight.  Not unless they want their own roles (and what they are upto now) examined and re-examined.

I wonder when the site will have a link to Willie Frazer's Prod version of Relatives for Justice, as far as I can see, neither acknowledges the pain and suffering of 'the other side', nor do the respective organisations highlight any victims of loyalist terrorists (in Willie's caxse) or republican terrorists (in the case of RFJ).  Funny that.

Funny, too, that those who preach so much about moving-on, don't take their own advice.  Selective moving-on is what they're after.

Perhaps a South African-style Truth Commission, bringing out ALL the dirt, is just what the doctor ordered. But then some people wouldn't want that either, it could make them very uncomfortable, very very uncomfortable.
ya cant have it both ways
some have only recently decided they might want to move on - dup  for example

but I agree with you that a SA style truth commission would make a lot of people very uncomfortable. IT wont happen of course, as we see in the Finucane case and will also soon see in the Claudy bombing case that the culprits will not be brought to justice.
Reason being, it this kind of thing started, the real losers would be the british gov/ruc and their collusion and the people in high places that sanctioned and effectively planned these killings
..........

SammyG

Quote from: 5iveTimes on June 29, 2007, 11:23:00 AM
When a Government are sanctioning murder by rogue elements of the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries then questions must be answered.

Presumably the collusion and murder by 'rogue elements' in the Republican movement, don't need investigation?  ::)

stew

Interesting that sammyg and gweyltah do not address the absolute horror that was the british killing fields in the north and the fact that the brit soldiers as well as the ruc and udr killed Catholics and also aided and abetted the paramilitaries with bogus road blocks etc to get them in and out of areas where they killed Catholics, many of them innocents.

Gweyltah, MI5 seemed to think it was a war, they said so and this was highlighted on this board about a year ago.

Heres the thing, a policing body is supposed to remain impartial no matter the situation, if they dont what happens is the people lose confidence in them and come to resent them, the RUC were an absolute disgrace during the troubles and I have nothing for contempt for them, unfortunately there were a lot of good men in the RUC as well and their work went un-noticed by many nationalists because of the actions of the colleagues and that really is a shame.

The British army were thugs and nothing has changed there and the udr were the scum of the earth, they were the village idiots that were not smart enough to become ruc officers  got into this regiment of hate and they killed and maimed their way through the troubles with the blessing of the british government.

The British legacy in Ireland is one of horror and hatred, sanction and oppression! to govern with an uneven hand will eventually cost you and it did, the british will never be comfortable in Ireland, we have always been a pain in their arse and will remain so until the day they completely pull the pin and leave our shores for good, that day is coming.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

SammyG

Quote from: stew on June 29, 2007, 03:06:23 PM
Interesting that sammyg and gweyltah do not address the absolute horror that was the british killing fields in the north and the fact that the brit soldiers as well as the ruc and udr killed Catholics and also aided and abetted the paramilitaries with bogus road blocks etc to get them in and out of areas where they killed Catholics, many of them innocents.
Stew

Where have I ever said that I don't have a problem with collusion and the issues associated with it? My issue is with people who seem to think that it was a 'one way' street. There were at least as many Provos being run by special branch as there were loyalists, but this seems to be forgotten in all the calls for enquiries. It's the miroor image of Wille Frasers mob who think that only the Provos did anything wrong and Loyalists are all fine.

Evil Genius

This topic has had 337 views, from a Board Membership in excess of 1,300.

Yet the Shoot to Kill Website has met the approval of precisely six posters - Donagh, GDA, FAM, 5Times, Lynchboy and Stew.

When the "Dirty or Dorothy" thread provoked more interest than that, perhaps the "Usual Suspects" (above) might care to take a hint? :D



"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

slow corner back

Quote from: SammyG on June 29, 2007, 02:20:01 PM
Quote from: 5iveTimes on June 29, 2007, 11:23:00 AM
When a Government are sanctioning murder by rogue elements of the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries then questions must be answered.

Presumably the collusion and murder by 'rogue elements' in the Republican movement, don't need investigation?  ::)

Sammy if you do not understand the difference between an illegal terrorist organisation commiting murder and forces of the state commiting murder you are either an idiot or a blinkered bigot. Or possibly both.

GweylTah

And as for Donagh sending e-mails to himself again ... you know what they say about people who have to send Christmas cards to themselves  ....

Donagh

#12
Quote from: GweylTah on June 29, 2007, 10:35:02 PM
And as for Donagh sending e-mails to himself again ... you know what they say about people who have to send Christmas cards to themselves  ....

Whats your point dickead? Don't tell me you are one of the multitudes flooding the 'whois' database with requests in an attempt to find the identity of the evil Donagh. If you were that desperate to find my identity all you had to do was ask and I'm one of the dozen or so posters both here and OWC would be happy to oblige.

Got another mail this morning informing me that one of the top destinations for people leaving the site, is another called 'Our Wee Country'. Strange that. Still it's good to know a culture of tolerance and diversity is being promoted over there these days, and of course they all count when it comes to search engine rankings.

GweylTah

Less of the abuse - I only suggested that maybe you hadn't got an e-mail about the website you linked to, but it was just a ruse to give you an excuse for the link.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the lady doth protest too much.

I've no idea about the rest of the stuff you're going on about, if I wind-up light-weight sheep like you with my occasional posts here, that's a bonus, but I have no interest in knowing who you are.

Gaoth Dobhair Abu

Quote from: GweylTah on June 30, 2007, 01:42:53 PM
Less of the abuse - I only suggested that maybe you hadn't got an e-mail about the website you linked to, but it was just a ruse to give you an excuse for the link.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the lady doth protest too much.

I've no idea about the rest of the stuff you're going on about, if I wind-up light-weight sheep like you with my occasional posts here, that's a bonus, but I have no interest in knowing who you are.


You are taking the piss - 419 and counting!
Tbc....