The Many Faces of US Politics...

[whitey]

We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

[J70]

We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

[J70]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

[whitey]

We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

2 things can be true at the same time

Yes, Trump tried to extort Ukraine, but he provided them with the weapons they requested

Obama/Biden refused those same requests further emboldening Russia

[J70]

We wouldn't be getting ready for ww3 if he had been elected

No, we probably wouldn't.

Putin would be sitting pretty in Kiev as we speak, boasting about his referenda "wins" last week.

Zelenskyy would be dead or in some gulag.

Trump would be working on a UN resolution trying to get the new "Russian" border officially recognized for his pal.

J70

Obama and Biden did nothing when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014-they emboldened him

They also refused to supply Ukraine with the weapons they actually wanted-Trump sent them

And...?

Trump gave them some, but not on any altruistic, ideological basis. He was convinced by Congressional Republicans that is would be good for business. And he then turned off the tap in an attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into helping his personal political campaign. Committed to the security of the Ukraine, Trump was not.

2 things can be true at the same time

Yes, Trump tried to extort Ukraine, but he provided them with the weapons they requested

Obama/Biden refused those same requests further emboldening Russia

And equally two other things can be true at the same time:

Trump gave them weapons AND he emboldened/encouraged Putin through just about every other action he took, both personally and in his rhetoric and proposals towards NATO, Russia and Ukraine.

[whitey]

LOL-he emboldened them while at the same arming their adversaries to the hilt

Why did he wait for trump to leave office before invading if he was that emboldened?

I've heard it all now

[J70]

LOL-he emboldened them while at the same arming their adversaries to the hilt

Why did he wait for trump to leave office before invading?

I've heard it all now

Yes whitey, the world is completely black and white, full only of mutually exclusive binary options.

Trump, head of a massive government and under pressure from Congress can only give in to them and send the Ukrainians arms. He can't at the same time do everything in his power to publicly suck up to Putin and to encourage him with his antagonization of European allies, his denigration of NATO and plans to withdraw the US from that organization. And even if he did so, such planning and posturing doesn't mean anything whatsoever because he sent some anti-tank missiles that might last the Ukrainians a few weeks in the event of an invasion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/15/john-boltons-crusade-debunk-trumps-revisionist-history-russia-ukraine/

[Gmac]

How many billions has been sent to Ukraine 75/100 ?
10% for the big guy ? Money laundering of epic proportions.

[burdizzo]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

[Gmac]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

higher gas and oil prices 70k refugees and ww3

[J70]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.

[burdizzo]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.

"For an Irish person"? What, someone who's seen successive governments persistently refuse to try and get "their country back" in case it cause too much bloodshed?!

Also, one has to wonder if it's as much NATO and the EU seeking to extend their influence into Ukraine, as the other way 'round? Remember the Western-sponsored coup in 2014?! Y'know - why would they care if they weren't trying to get their own greedy claws into Ukraine!?

[J70]

On the other hand, it's highly likely Zelensky would have signed up to far less onerous terms at the start of the invasion if he wasn't being egged on by NATO.

Luckily NATO were still around with the US on board to egg him on then.

What's so great about sending tens of thousands to their deaths in a proxy war that the US (/NATO) had quite a considerable role in provoking? What do we in Ireland get out of it? What does Europe get out of it? What does the average Ukrainian get out of it, even??

Apart from hopefully getting their country back and knocking back the threat of their much larger, more powerful, neighbour?

Strange point of view for an Irish person.

Ukraine is fully entitled to seek closer ties with the EU and NATO, no matter what Putin thinks.

"For an Irish person"? What, someone who's seen successive governments persistently refuse to try and get "their country back" in case it cause too much bloodshed?!

Also, one has to wonder if it's as much NATO and the EU seeking to extend their influence into Ukraine, as the other way 'round? Remember the Western-sponsored coup in 2014?! Y'know - why would they care if they weren't trying to get their own greedy claws into Ukraine!?

The failures in Ireland and the fucked up settlement we ended up with are all the more reason why we should understand and sympathize with what the average Ukrainian should get out of their country's refusal to accept Putin's invasion. At least in my opinion.

And yeah, geopolitics is complicated and dirty, not black/white, good guys/bad/guys. Ukraine matters for various reasons in ways that "lesser" countries/conflict regions don't, unfortunately. That doesn't excuse what Putin has done nor mean that the Ukrainians should just sit and accept their fate.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

45 is suing CNN for $475m for "defamation"

[lenny]

New study of almost 600,000 deaths in Ohio and Florida shows that registered Republicans had far higher excess-death rates than registered Democrats during the pandemic, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were available.

That's the trump influence because he was so dismissive of covid/recommended ivermectin and bleach and pushed the anti vaccine narrative which he knew his supporters would like.