Teachers get it handy!

[trailer]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

Wage cuts?

They'll be queuing up for that opportunity ...their about to get pay parity with UK ..so I'm sure it'll happen

For Christ's sake, Delgany. I appreciate you are trying to reveal the depths education has fallen to but please try to keep some standards.

You gotta cut your cloth. If a business is struggling there is wage cuts across the board. Teachers need to carry some of the load here. 

Apologies Duine

..so Trailer...if you cut the teaching staff...what do you suggest, the school does with the children, put them in classes of 50 ....Good result for you !

Country coming down with teachers.
Retire older teachers and replace with cheaper youth.
Cut their employers pension contributions
No effect to their take home pay.

Fair solution.

The country is not coming down with teachers, perhaps some backward areas are. In Dublin, there are plenty of schools that cannot get teachers.

Dublin is an outlier because of the cost of living.
We need to be honest with people. There are far far too many teachers produced. It's attractive for it's work life balance and huge pension.
The Department of Education in the North anyway is living far beyond it's means. Teachers should be willing to make sacrifices like the ones I have outlined above to make ends meet. And provide a world class education for its pupils.

St Mary's teacher training college needs scrapped as well. 

Older teachers are not going to take early retirement in the North as DENI impose a 5% actuarial reduction each year after 55 to a teacher's pension.
Reducing the Employers contribution is not going to happen as a result.
The only alternative is to restart the ' Refreshing the workforce ' scheme which did not apply the reduction to pensions.

Significant numbers of young teachers are in the Middle East, enjoying the benefits of a tax free economy, so there are vacancies North & South in specialist subject teaching and getting a sub is difficult.

Employer (Tax payer i.e. Me) contributions to a teacher's pension is 29.1%
You can moan about pay all day long but you ain't getting that in the Middle East or any private employer.
Just be honest with the public. You all took the pandemic off because you were all on the front line fighting Russia or something (that's what it sounded like anyway). Public sympathy for teachers is very very thin.

[Milltown Row2]

To be fair trailer, you are talking out your hole

Teachers didn't take off because of the pandemic, the government did that, and if you think the having 30 plus kids in a class during that period was healthy you are again talking out your hole

Public sympathy for anyone working for the public sector has always been poor, private sector also doesn't cover itself in glory when business go tits up and expect the public to absorb their losses (the banks for one)

The line, "I'm paying your wages" gets used a lot, most saying it are probably on the dole and no one is stopping anyone one in the private sector from topping up their pensions or putting money aside while working

[JoG2]

To be fair trailer, you are talking out your hole

   poetic

[trailer]

To be fair trailer, you are talking out your hole

Teachers didn't take off because of the pandemic, the government did that, and if you think the having 30 plus kids in a class during that period was healthy you are again talking out your hole

Public sympathy for anyone working for the public sector has always been poor, private sector also doesn't cover itself in glory when business go tits up and expect the public to absorb their losses (the banks for one)

The line, "I'm paying your wages" gets used a lot, most saying it are probably on the dole and no one is stopping anyone one in the private sector from topping up their pensions or putting money aside while working

You'd make a shite teacher.

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

[Milltown Row2]

Any word when teachers will be getting their pay rise and back dated payouts?

[Sportacus]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

[Delgany 2nds]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Schools are underfunded is the reality of the situation. They are accountable to the Education Authority on a yearly basis but the EA accept that schools have no room to reduce costs.

E.g. schools have to compile with class size policies!

Certainly £5000 a head would be great!

[p3427977]

How can a school run up a deficit? Does it have access to credit?

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Schools are underfunded is the reality of the situation. They are accountable to the Education Authority on a yearly basis but the EA accept that schools have no room to reduce costs.

E.g. schools have to compile with class size policies!

Certainly £5000 a head would be great!

That's simply not true.

[Tony Baloney]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Where are these teachers being laid off?

[trailer]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Where are these teachers being laid off?

Just another example of untruths from Teachers. Be honest with the public. That's all we're asking.

[Delgany 2nds]

What untruths are you specifically referring to ?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Where are these teachers being laid off?

Those on temporary contracts being told there is no job for them the following year? Common enough practice.

[Knock Yer Mucker In]

I have a son who is a teacher, temporary contract from September to June, does not get paid for A/L, going on 3 years now. Therefore does not get paid for three months of the yea. He is seriously considering leaving the profession. Can't get a mortgage as job is not secure. The number of friends he knows on similar situation.