Best hurling league structures?

[Orchardman]

Why is it that the hurling counties seem to be talking about league change every year? Now O'Shea the tipp manager has come out with this about a ten team league. That's grand but when you read the article you realise he's talking dung. First he claims it has been too tight ( i agree with that, that there was very little between top and bottom) and that teams had to play 5 weeks in a row, and a week between games in not enough. But he goes on to argue we should instead play 9 games, starting in feb and just run it through!Does he want 2 weeks between each game?

But sure even if there was 10 teams then the would be cries from the 11th best team (likely antrim first of all, and then offaly, wexford or whoever gets relegated every other year) that they are stuffing all the div 2 teams and it's not fair.

The thing is I love hurling, and it's good we have around 10 counties who give it full respect, but they dont care about the middle tier group and trying to improve standards

article- http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/oshea-10-team-division-1a-would-improve-standards-227117.html

[seafoid]

I'm sure Premier Emperor will back me up on this. The best league structure would have a division of 20 counties competing for the right to play Tipperary in the final .

[Bord na Mona man]

Divisions of 8 teams and 2 up and 2 down relegation would be the best.

The previous time the divisions had this number, there was only one automatic promotion slot in Div 2.

[AZOffaly]

I actually think the current structure is fine. Offaly are where they deserve to be, and if we can beat Limerick, Wexford, Dublin and get up, then we are good enough to be at that level. I'm sure we're improving by being competitive with those teams right now, which would stand to you.

Obviously it's better to be hurling at the top level, but if you're not competitive at that level, are you really doing anybody any good?

The top teams in the country right now are in 1A, and 1B has the next bunch, but a very solid bunch of teams who will be aiming for 1A. Then you have a couple of teams in 1B who will have the likes of Offaly and Wexford in their sights as realistic targets for them to improve themselves. Ditto in 2A if Westmeath or Laois come up, they'll have every bit as much intention of taking out the Offalys, Wexfords, Antrims and Carlows as those teams have of taking out the Limericks, Dublins, Clares etc.

Ideally you'd have 4 8 team divisions, each of which are competitive, but in reality you'd have 2 teams every year in Division 2 who are just too good for the rest in the short term, and they'd be swapping with the same 2 or 3 in the top division every second year.

If the top 8 were seen to be Kilkenny, Tipperary, Galway, Waterford, Cork, Clare, Limerick and Dublin, that would be a good division, no question. However if you have Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Westmeath, Laois, Kerry and Derry you'd expect that Offaly, Wexford and Antrim would be contesting promotion every second year, with the likes of Clare and Limerick fighting relegation on a regular basis. Then the alternate years would see the reverse happening. I don't think that's really healthy. I prefer more balanced divisions, with a knowledge that if you get promoted you are definitely ready for 1A.

[orangeman]

I actually think the current structure is fine. Offaly are where they deserve to be, and if we can beat Limerick, Wexford, Dublin and get up, then we are good enough to be at that level. I'm sure we're improving by being competitive with those teams right now, which would stand to you.

Obviously it's better to be hurling at the top level, but if you're not competitive at that level, are you really doing anybody any good?

The top teams in the country right now are in 1A, and 1B has the next bunch, but a very solid bunch of teams who will be aiming for 1A. Then you have a couple of teams in 1B who will have the likes of Offaly and Wexford in their sights as realistic targets for them to improve themselves. Ditto in 2A if Westmeath or Laois come up, they'll have every bit as much intention of taking out the Offalys, Wexfords, Antrims and Carlows as those teams have of taking out the Limericks, Dublins, Clares etc.

Ideally you'd have 4 8 team divisions, each of which are competitive, but in reality you'd have 2 teams every year in Division 2 who are just too good for the rest in the short term, and they'd be swapping with the same 2 or 3 in the top division every second year.

If the top 8 were seen to be Kilkenny, Tipperary, Galway, Waterford, Cork, Clare, Limerick and Dublin, that would be a good division, no question. However if you have Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Westmeath, Laois, Kerry and Derry you'd expect that Offaly, Wexford and Antrim would be contesting promotion every second year, with the likes of Clare and Limerick fighting relegation on a regular basis. Then the alternate years would see the reverse happening. I don't think that's really healthy. I prefer more balanced divisions, with a knowledge that if you get promoted you are definitely ready for 1A.

Agreed - that would be the big drawback alright.

It's fairly competitive as it is and the way it is might be the best if we leave it a while to assess the pros and cons.

[Zulu]

I don't think I've ever heard a leading hurling manager argue for anything that would benefit anybody other than themselves or the top hurling counties. IC hurling and football should be cutthroat and have little if anything to do with development, that's what club, schools, uni and minor and U21 IC are for.

[INDIANA]

I actually think the current structure is fine. Offaly are where they deserve to be, and if we can beat Limerick, Wexford, Dublin and get up, then we are good enough to be at that level. I'm sure we're improving by being competitive with those teams right now, which would stand to you.

Obviously it's better to be hurling at the top level, but if you're not competitive at that level, are you really doing anybody any good?

The top teams in the country right now are in 1A, and 1B has the next bunch, but a very solid bunch of teams who will be aiming for 1A. Then you have a couple of teams in 1B who will have the likes of Offaly and Wexford in their sights as realistic targets for them to improve themselves. Ditto in 2A if Westmeath or Laois come up, they'll have every bit as much intention of taking out the Offalys, Wexfords, Antrims and Carlows as those teams have of taking out the Limericks, Dublins, Clares etc.

Ideally you'd have 4 8 team divisions, each of which are competitive, but in reality you'd have 2 teams every year in Division 2 who are just too good for the rest in the short term, and they'd be swapping with the same 2 or 3 in the top division every second year.

If the top 8 were seen to be Kilkenny, Tipperary, Galway, Waterford, Cork, Clare, Limerick and Dublin, that would be a good division, no question. However if you have Offaly, Wexford, Antrim, Carlow, Westmeath, Laois, Kerry and Derry you'd expect that Offaly, Wexford and Antrim would be contesting promotion every second year, with the likes of Clare and Limerick fighting relegation on a regular basis. Then the alternate years would see the reverse happening. I don't think that's really healthy. I prefer more balanced divisions, with a knowledge that if you get promoted you are definitely ready for 1A.

The current structure is shite in my view.

4 divisions of 8 has always been the best way forward for the leagues.

Not that many counties in Ireland play hurling and the elite do nothing but try to keep it that way.

I hope Cork are relegated because it will 100% ensure this structure will be binned.

There are counties with a little of help could become very competitive.

But its never about that for hurling. Its always about less games and worrying about the elite.

Any wonder the game is dying on its knees.

But sure when only kilkenny, tipperary and cork are left playing it sure they can play themselves as many times as they want on an annual basis.

[waterfordlad]

Apparently there's been 10 formats in hurling leagues in the last 15 years so enough of them have been tried. 10 teams would be too many. 8 is probably ideal but the problem is as said earlier you'd have the same small number of counties being relegated and promoted if you had 2 up 2 down as there aren't enough competitive hurling counties. It is hard to argue with this years league for excitement.

[seafoid]

Divisions of 8 teams and 2 up and 2 down relegation would be the best.

The previous time the divisions had this number, there was only one automatic promotion slot in Div 2.

Agreed. 6 teams playing for 4 spots is a joke. 

[Premier Emperor]

I'm sure Premier Emperor will back me up on this. The best league structure would have a division of 20 counties competing for the right to play Tipperary in the final .

It usually ends up that way regardless of the format.

[johnneycool]

Apparently there's been 10 formats in hurling leagues in the last 15 years so enough of them have been tried. 10 teams would be too many. 8 is probably ideal but the problem is as said earlier you'd have the same small number of counties being relegated and promoted if you had 2 up 2 down as there aren't enough competitive hurling counties. It is hard to argue with this years league for excitement.

Sadly if Clare come off worse in the relegation battle then the league will remain as it is, if its Cork then there'll be a structural change and that's the bit that pisses me off, there's only ever an issue if some of the elite are on the receiving end of it.

Exciting and competitive as all the matches were there's something wrong with a set up if on the last day you can be involved in a relegation battle or a place for a semi-final berth dependent on the outcome of a few games, but surely these experts who came up with it and voted it in knew it would be a very real possibility.

Sometimes you got to wonder what these people are thinking when these hair brained schemes see the light of day.

Straight 8 leagues with two up two down irrespective of which ever of the 'top' counties ends up in Div2 for a year or so.

[Asal Mor]

I like the new format and I think it's been a success in so far as the league has been more competitive the last 2 years than it was previously. Teams are puting a bit more effort into winning league matches now and that's huge progress from 10 years ago when many teams were just turning up. I think Kilkenny's success in the league under Cody has changed team's attitudes to he league. With an 8 team first division we might see a return to the old half-assed approach to league games.

O Shea was criticising the fact that a team can get relegated after winning 40% of their games but they'll have to lose a relegation play-off as well. That's 4 defeats from 6 games for whoever goes down. Fair enough really.

[Milltown Row2]

Apparently there's been 10 formats in hurling leagues in the last 15 years so enough of them have been tried. 10 teams would be too many. 8 is probably ideal but the problem is as said earlier you'd have the same small number of counties being relegated and promoted if you had 2 up 2 down as there aren't enough competitive hurling counties. It is hard to argue with this years league for excitement.

Sadly if Clare come off worse in the relegation battle then the league will remain as it is, if its Cork then there'll be a structural change and that's the bit that pisses me off, there's only ever an issue if some of the elite are on the receiving end of it.

Exciting and competitive as all the matches were there's something wrong with a set up if on the last day you can be involved in a relegation battle or a place for a semi-final berth dependent on the outcome of a few games, but surely these experts who came up with it and voted it in knew it would be a very real possibility.

Sometimes you got to wonder what these people are thinking when these hair brained schemes see the light of day.

Straight 8 leagues with two up two down irrespective of which ever of the 'top' counties ends up in Div2 for a year or so.

A bit like the Antrim leagues 

[johnneycool]

Exactly like the Antrim leagues. 

Even though we availed of it this year (along with the Oisins) I'm not sure we hold too much sway in the corridors of power in Casement.

[Orchardman]

I like the new format and I think it's been a success in so far as the league has been more competitive the last 2 years than it was previously. Teams are puting a bit more effort into winning league matches now and that's huge progress from 10 years ago when many teams were just turning up. I think Kilkenny's success in the league under Cody has changed team's attitudes to he league. With an 8 team first division we might see a return to the old half-assed approach to league games.

O Shea was criticising the fact that a team can get relegated after winning 40% of their games but they'll have to lose a relegation play-off as well. That's 4 defeats from 6 games for whoever goes down. Fair enough really.

I accept and agree that it's tough in that there is nothing between winning a semi final place and getting relegated, it's nearly too tight, though it has been exciting. And of course I agree as zulu says that any top manager has only self interests at heart.

But the fact is he was talking pure tripe when he mentioned games for 4-5 weeks in a row and no recovery time, but then suggests a ten team league and 'run it off' as he says, like is he stupid?