Down Club Hurling & Football

[upandwin]

Think it's rough on whoever goes down because so many team have equipped themselves really well in Division 1. I would've liked to have seen a 4th bottom v 2nd in D2 play off to make sure we get the strongest D1 possible in 2023. You just never know what Ford team will turn up but they seem to have won the important games around them. Beating Island was massive and they will fancy beating a struggling Rostrevor side on the last day of the season. If they can get one win between CPN and Carryduff they'll stay up-some season for them to be fair. Loughinisland play Warrenpoint on the last day of the season too, the game was originally down for Moygannon and now it's in Loughinisland. Anyone know what's happening there? Loughinisland need 2/3 wins to finish the season

[knockitdown]

Anyone know when the dates and venues for each first round game of the championship will be announced? Have a wedding that weekend and assuming they will be played from Thursday to Monday? Intermediate if that makes any difference

[TakeTheMark]

Think it's rough on whoever goes down because so many team have equipped themselves really well in Division 1. I would've liked to have seen a 4th bottom v 2nd in D2 play off to make sure we get the strongest D1 possible in 2023.

I'd have to disagree with this. In the last four years, only four promotion spots have been made available to Div 2 teams (2018 - 1, 2019 - 1, 2020 - 0, 2021 - 2). From those four teams that went up, Loughinisland (2018), Carryduff (2019) and RGU (2021) all could go on to be safe this year, so what's to say that Div 2 teams coming up won't be strong and can't hold their own?
I'd also argue that a lack of relegation last year may have potentially saved Loughinisland or Bryansford, two teams who may end up being safe this year when in any other year could have been playing Div 2. Point here is that they got a free pass last season, why give them another escape route?

[manwithnoplan]

Think it's rough on whoever goes down because so many team have equipped themselves really well in Division 1. I would've liked to have seen a 4th bottom v 2nd in D2 play off to make sure we get the strongest D1 possible in 2023.

I'd have to disagree with this. In the last four years, only four promotion spots have been made available to Div 2 teams (2018 - 1, 2019 - 1, 2020 - 0, 2021 - 2). From those four teams that went up, Loughinisland (2018), Carryduff (2019) and RGU (2021) all could go on to be safe this year, so what's to say that Div 2 teams coming up won't be strong and can't hold their own?
I'd also argue that a lack of relegation last year may have potentially saved Loughinisland or Bryansford, two teams who may end up being safe this year when in any other year could have been playing Div 2. Point here is that they got a free pass last season, why give them another escape route?

Fourth bottom in Div 1 is in theory a lot stronger than 2nd in div 2, and a playoff would likely reflect that  Thus maintaining a stronger Div 1 and possibly avoiding sending another team down to div 2, to trounce the bottom half of that division. So many relegations in one season is ridiculous. Leagues could have been restructured over 2 seasons. While it maybe meant less dead rubber games towards the end of this season, it could mean we get more non-competitive games next season. Applies to other divisions too, as between top and bottom in each division there is quite a difference in standard (in my humble opinion).

[wobbller]

Think it's rough on whoever goes down because so many team have equipped themselves really well in Division 1. I would've liked to have seen a 4th bottom v 2nd in D2 play off to make sure we get the strongest D1 possible in 2023.

I'd have to disagree with this. In the last four years, only four promotion spots have been made available to Div 2 teams (2018 - 1, 2019 - 1, 2020 - 0, 2021 - 2). From those four teams that went up, Loughinisland (2018), Carryduff (2019) and RGU (2021) all could go on to be safe this year, so what's to say that Div 2 teams coming up won't be strong and can't hold their own?
I'd also argue that a lack of relegation last year may have potentially saved Loughinisland or Bryansford, two teams who may end up being safe this year when in any other year could have been playing Div 2. Point here is that they got a free pass last season, why give them another escape route?

Fourth bottom in Div 1 is in theory a lot stronger than 2nd in div 2, and a playoff would likely reflect that  Thus maintaining a stronger Div 1 and possibly avoiding sending another team down to div 2, to trounce the bottom half of that division. So many relegations in one season is ridiculous. Leagues could have been restructured over 2 seasons. While it maybe meant less dead rubber games towards the end of this season, it could mean we get more non-competitive games next season. Applies to other divisions too, as between top and bottom in each division there is quite a difference in standard (in my humble opinion).

The process was voted in by the County Board earlier in the year.Spilt milk and all that.

[terrifictommy]

One swallow doesn't make a summer as they say.  lads at work going to games, Kilcoo are the team to beat. Doesn't mean they are beatable, everyone is on their day but I'd be firmly keeping my money in my pocket instead of betting against them.

[manwithnoplan]

Think it's rough on whoever goes down because so many team have equipped themselves really well in Division 1. I would've liked to have seen a 4th bottom v 2nd in D2 play off to make sure we get the strongest D1 possible in 2023.

I'd have to disagree with this. In the last four years, only four promotion spots have been made available to Div 2 teams (2018 - 1, 2019 - 1, 2020 - 0, 2021 - 2). From those four teams that went up, Loughinisland (2018), Carryduff (2019) and RGU (2021) all could go on to be safe this year, so what's to say that Div 2 teams coming up won't be strong and can't hold their own?
I'd also argue that a lack of relegation last year may have potentially saved Loughinisland or Bryansford, two teams who may end up being safe this year when in any other year could have been playing Div 2. Point here is that they got a free pass last season, why give them another escape route?

Fourth bottom in Div 1 is in theory a lot stronger than 2nd in div 2, and a playoff would likely reflect that  Thus maintaining a stronger Div 1 and possibly avoiding sending another team down to div 2, to trounce the bottom half of that division. So many relegations in one season is ridiculous. Leagues could have been restructured over 2 seasons. While it maybe meant less dead rubber games towards the end of this season, it could mean we get more non-competitive games next season. Applies to other divisions too, as between top and bottom in each division there is quite a difference in standard (in my humble opinion).

The process was voted in by the County Board earlier in the year.Spilt milk and all that.

Fully aware that it was voted in and it is the case. Not crying about it, just giving an opinion. I believed this was allowed on a discussion board, apologies.

[Truth hurts]

The reserve championships need to be looked at for next year. They should start after the first round of the senior, inter, and junior championships. Kilcoo, Carryduff, Burren, and Mayobridge are in the reserve finals this week and they have the biggest panels so this way suits them. Micheal Rooney got Ulster player of the year in 2021 and is playing in a reserve championship. That is not right.

Relegation was always going to be a hard one for this season and when the fixtures came out it was a race to get into the top 4 and secure your status and start preparing for the championship. The top 4 in divisions one and three are being played cautiously and teams and giving players the opportunity to experience top-flight football. They were awarded the opportunity when they finished in that position.

The race for the last relegation spot in one is very hard to call.  Carryduff and Bryansford have tough games in the run-in. Next year division 2 will be interesting and I do not think the team who joins the bottom 3 will have a cakewalk in division 2 next year.

[manwithnoplan]

The reserve championships need to be looked at for next year. They should start after the first round of the senior, inter, and junior championships. Kilcoo, Carryduff, Burren, and Mayobridge are in the reserve finals this week and they have the biggest panels so this way suits them. Micheal Rooney got Ulster player of the year in 2021 and is playing in a reserve championship. That is not right.

Relegation was always going to be a hard one for this season and when the fixtures came out it was a race to get into the top 4 and secure your status and start preparing for the championship. The top 4 in divisions one and three are being played cautiously and teams and giving players the opportunity to experience top-flight football. They were awarded the opportunity when they finished in that position.

The race for the last relegation spot in one is very hard to call.  Carryduff and Bryansford have tough games in the run-in. Next year division 2 will be interesting and I do not think the team who joins the bottom 3 will have a cakewalk in division 2 next year.

Can't agree with that, as that would lead to even more unfulfilled fixtures or simply fewer teams entering. It's ok for SFC teams to have players ruled out of reserves as they have the panels to cope, but many div 3 and 4 teams will have small panels, and if they get a couple of injuries to top 13 players they will need men playing reserves and IFC/JFC.

[supersub]

The reserve championships need to be looked at for next year. They should start after the first round of the senior, inter, and junior championships. Kilcoo, Carryduff, Burren, and Mayobridge are in the reserve finals this week and they have the biggest panels so this way suits them. Micheal Rooney got Ulster player of the year in 2021 and is playing in a reserve championship. That is not right.

Relegation was always going to be a hard one for this season and when the fixtures came out it was a race to get into the top 4 and secure your status and start preparing for the championship. The top 4 in divisions one and three are being played cautiously and teams and giving players the opportunity to experience top-flight football. They were awarded the opportunity when they finished in that position.

The race for the last relegation spot in one is very hard to call.  Carryduff and Bryansford have tough games in the run-in. Next year division 2 will be interesting and I do not think the team who joins the bottom 3 will have a cakewalk in division 2 next year.

By the same token if Micheal Rooney or any other footballer for that matter, player of the year or not, is studying overseas and can't return to play Senior football on a Friday night but has a chance to play for their club on a Saturday...do we want to block this? It's not as if Kilcoo are putting out 7/8 starting seniors every reserve match. I would argue in this case the system has worked well for a fella like Micheal.

[Truth hurts]

The reserve championships need to be looked at for next year. They should start after the first round of the senior, inter, and junior championships. Kilcoo, Carryduff, Burren, and Mayobridge are in the reserve finals this week and they have the biggest panels so this way suits them. Micheal Rooney got Ulster player of the year in 2021 and is playing in a reserve championship. That is not right.

Relegation was always going to be a hard one for this season and when the fixtures came out it was a race to get into the top 4 and secure your status and start preparing for the championship. The top 4 in divisions one and three are being played cautiously and teams and giving players the opportunity to experience top-flight football. They were awarded the opportunity when they finished in that position.

The race for the last relegation spot in one is very hard to call.  Carryduff and Bryansford have tough games in the run-in. Next year division 2 will be interesting and I do not think the team who joins the bottom 3 will have a cakewalk in division 2 next year.

By the same token if Micheal Rooney or any other footballer for that matter, player of the year or not, is studying overseas and can't return to play Senior football on a Friday night but has a chance to play for their club on a Saturday...do we want to block this? It's not as if Kilcoo are putting out 7/8 starting seniors every reserve match. I would argue in this case the system has worked well for a fella like Micheal.

I just think that the reserve championships are dominated by the same clubs year on year and these rules are helping them increase the stranglehold. When has a second division team last won a reserve championship in any manner?

[thewobbler]

The rules aren't helping them.

By accident or design, over the past decade, CCC have tried out every combination of concurrent vs prior reserve championships, named 13 vs/plus SFC ineligibility.

And you know what.... The strongest teams in the SFC have continued to be the strongest teams in the reserve championships too.

Which really is how it should be.

[manwithnoplan]

The reserve championships need to be looked at for next year. They should start after the first round of the senior, inter, and junior championships. Kilcoo, Carryduff, Burren, and Mayobridge are in the reserve finals this week and they have the biggest panels so this way suits them. Micheal Rooney got Ulster player of the year in 2021 and is playing in a reserve championship. That is not right.

Relegation was always going to be a hard one for this season and when the fixtures came out it was a race to get into the top 4 and secure your status and start preparing for the championship. The top 4 in divisions one and three are being played cautiously and teams and giving players the opportunity to experience top-flight football. They were awarded the opportunity when they finished in that position.

The race for the last relegation spot in one is very hard to call.  Carryduff and Bryansford have tough games in the run-in. Next year division 2 will be interesting and I do not think the team who joins the bottom 3 will have a cakewalk in division 2 next year.

By the same token if Micheal Rooney or any other footballer for that matter, player of the year or not, is studying overseas and can't return to play Senior football on a Friday night but has a chance to play for their club on a Saturday...do we want to block this? It's not as if Kilcoo are putting out 7/8 starting seniors every reserve match. I would argue in this case the system has worked well for a fella like Micheal.

I just think that the reserve championships are dominated by the same clubs year on year and these rules are helping them increase the stranglehold. When has a second division team last won a reserve championship in any manner?

The largest panels and clubs with the strongest senior teams are always more likely to win than a division 2 team....

[bigarsedkeeper]

The rules aren't helping them.

By accident or design, over the past decade, CCC have tried out every combination of concurrent vs prior reserve championships, named 13 vs/plus SFC ineligibility.

And you know what.... The strongest teams in the SFC have continued to be the strongest teams in the reserve championships too.

Which really is how it should be.

Yeah, that's it. I've been involved with reserves as a young player and a nearly retired player and you can't get it 100% right. I always thought 10 minutes at the end of a SFC/IFC shouldn't stop you playing the following year. Personally getting it over before SFC starts worked best because if you started with a group of players then 4 of them come on in the SFC you're getting hammered in a semi final or whatever.

If you have 3 teams but only enter a team in the RFC not the PRFC that's not fair on other sides. The strongest teams in SFC should be winning the PRFC and then the RFC will have the better semi retired players too. That's just football. I think the Fr Davies/Felix Darby for the teams that went out of the championship was a good idea, keeps those lads playing for another few weeks.

[thewobbler]

Yep!

Being a reserve manager, and watching your team's spine being ripped apart in a dead rubber SFC match, is as little fun as you can have in the GAA.

Tbh, I think that if a) we will continue with the back door in SFC/IFC , and b) we will continue with Reserves being finished before the first team championships, then I think the right system is that anyone who played (even for a minute) in 2 or more first team championship matches the previous season, should be excluded (and your named 13 has to come from this list). And in the unlikely event that a club doesn't end up with 13+ excluded players, it then reverts to the named 13 they dream up.

Onus should be on club secretaries to return a list of excluded players before the start of the season.