A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 01:42:49 PM
Just because we don't like the outcome we cannot discard these polls. Lots of work needs to be done, even to convince SF voters.

If the methodology is flawed then it's a problem. Nilt often has the support for the various parties completely different to actual election results so should be questioned straight away. The fact that people vote in a booth by themselves should be reflected in a poll, hence face to face is just idiotic and not exactly scientific. The problem is the SOS will probably use polls as one of his /her few tools to assess whether a unity ref is justified. I might take my own poll at the the next wolf tones concert as a fair reflection of society here and submit the results ;D

imtommygunn

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.

There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

weareros

If the poll was accurate, it would mean that unity was losing 19% points from Sinn Fein and SDLP voters. I am basing that on Sinn Fein at 30% (13% of the 30 not voting UI) and SDLP at 9% (6% of the 9% not voting UI). Hard to believe that is accurate. If it is, then Michele and Colum have a job on their hands to sell unity. However Ireland's Future needs less grey haired cranky old men. Some of those lads are about as effective selling unity as Arlene will be selling the Union. Freshen it up with younger, diverse voices.

johnnycool

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.

There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

We'll only find that out nearer the time.

As soon as I can pull some cash out of my pension pot I will, as it's the next big financial scam looming on the horizon.

Snapchap

Seems this poll was commissioned by the 'ARINS' project and carried out by Ipsos. The last time a poll showed this little support for Irish Unity in the north was in one carried out in 2018 (it actually had support for unity lower, at 21%). It too was commissioned by the 'ARINS' project and carried out by Ipsos.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: johnnycool on December 05, 2022, 02:00:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.

There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

We'll only find that out nearer the time.

As soon as I can pull some cash out of my pension pot I will, as it's the next big financial scam looming on the horizon.

The Old trusty Rovers biscuit tin for me

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.
S
There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

Thats the point. The NHS is f@cked so why is it still being used as a positive in the discussion. As for the pensions as has been pointed out before plenty of expats still pick up their pensions. If the pensions actually collapse in the UK well then it doesn't matter if we are in the UK or Ire  we don't get anything either way.

armaghniac

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.
S
There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

Thats the point. The NHS is f@cked so why is it still being used as a positive in the discussion. As for the pensions as has been pointed out before plenty of expats still pick up their pensions. If the pensions actually collapse in the UK well then it doesn't matter if we are in the UK or Ire  we don't get anything either way.

Many people are ignorant and don't keep up to date. For instance, the ROI government abolished all hospital charges for public care from Jan, but even people in the south don't know that. The perception of enormous charges remains, although all that is left is GP and prescription payments by the richer half of people. 
The pensions thing is actually a bit complicated, and unfortunately some of the answers can only come from London, who are going to act the maggot as usual.
The Dublin government could say "we guarantee all your pensions", but this would let London off the hook.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

imtommygunn

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.
S
There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

Thats the point. The NHS is f@cked so why is it still being used as a positive in the discussion. As for the pensions as has been pointed out before plenty of expats still pick up their pensions. If the pensions actually collapse in the UK well then it doesn't matter if we are in the UK or Ire  we don't get anything either way.

Yeah completely in agreement with you.

The tories will shaft you. The NHS is in such a state that if it's not privatised then very soon if anything serious goes wrong with you you're f**ked. What good is a "free" service when if you had something like cancer your scan would take that long to happen you'd be terminal before it did.

AustinPowers

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2022, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 05, 2022, 12:41:07 PM
Seems the bigger threat to unity comes from indifferent "nationalists" who would have previously have been considered a definite Yes to Unity vote.

Which is crazy when you think about it. Would rather live with the DUP still pulling the strings, a Tory government who don't give a flying f@ck and pretend to themselves that the NHS is amazing and that their pension will be taken away from them if they leave the UK. It's like they  listen to what Bryson, Sammy Wilson etc say and then believe it ffs.

Neither the NHS or our pensions are safe. Sure they near blew the pensions with your woman Truss's budget.

There's buck all safe with the tories. Nothing.

They want us all dead before we pick up a pension , and  they continue to  move the retirement age further and further away so  even if we do reach it , we'll not be  around long to benefit from it. An absolute scam

Rossfan

On State pensions I'd hazard a guess the Brits (or England/Wales) will either
>transfer a Northerner's Insurance Contributions to the new All Ireland State or
> pay them their State Pension at their rates and leave it up to the Irish State to top it up.
That and an awful lot of other details, like will the new State inherit NI% share of the "UK" National debt will be part of the detailed agreement.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

dec

Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2022, 07:05:06 PM
On State pensions I'd hazard a guess the Brits (or England/Wales) will either
>transfer a Northerner's Insurance Contributions to the new All Ireland State or
> pay them their State Pension at their rates and leave it up to the Irish State to top it up.
That and an awful lot of other details, like will the new State inherit NI% share of the "UK" National debt will be part of the detailed agreement.

The UK will still be responsible for pensions. I live in the US but I will get some UK pension based on the National insurance contributions I made when I worked in NI. My parents worked in the US for a while and got a small US pension after they reached retirement age.

armaghniac

The UK is responsible for pensions. But it is split in two, NI becomes responsible for NI pensions and GB for theirs. Therein lies the problem.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Wildweasel74

See you's gonna toll the f**k out of everbody down south. You really giving us a tough sell.

Wildweasel74

#3764
My father was entitled to some sort pension down south, living bck up here, but the bollacks didn't pay as he was collecting a ni pension and some shit but not been entitled to the down south one.