New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[Maguire01]

Most definitely.Why when you believe a practice to be sinful should you be compelled to facilitate it under your roof.

So you're denying them the exact same service you're providing to other people. You're discriminating against them because they're gay. And who's to say they're going to even do anything you would consider 'sinful' in your B&B?

If a straight unmarried couple wanted to stay in your B&B would you turn them away? If you weren't sure if they were married (or weren't sure they were married to each other) would you ask for evidence? You wouldn't want to run the risk of facilitating sin.

[andoireabu]

Most definitely.Why when you believe a practice to be sinful should you be compelled to facilitate it under your roof.

If two men ask for a double room to maybe get a better deal than two single rooms would you ask them if they are gay before letting them in?

[T Fearon]

If a gay couple wanted to rent a room to clearly spend a night in that room as a normal heterosexual married couple,yes I believe the owner of a B&B should have a right to refuse their custom.

[give her dixie]

How can organisations poles apart with disastrous consequences for decades,now co operating,be anything but good news?

Because both organisations are full of cnuts........

Hard to argue with that........

[Oraisteach]

So, Tony, you would reserve the right to deny service to 'sinners'?  I'm thinking you'd be out of business instantaneously.  Would you have your hypothetical hotel customers sign off that they had no intention of engaging in, nor ever had, engaged in sodomy.  What about your kinky heterosexual customers.  Maybe install cameras to discourage sinfulness.  What about yourself?  Refuse to accept payment because of repeated 'self-abuse'? Also a sin.

[Maguire01]

If a gay couple wanted to rent a room to clearly spend a night in that room as a normal heterosexual married couple,yes I believe the owner of a B&B should have a right to refuse their custom.

You want to respond to any of the specifics I mentioned?

[LCohen]

How can organisations poles apart with disastrous consequences for decades,now co operating,be anything but good news?

Tony by that lamentable "thinking" you would welcome the unification of Palestinian Muslims and Israeli Jews in an active and shared hatred of say black east africans.

Your "logic" is absolutely frightening

[LCohen]

So you'd prefer the old order of neither the twain shall meet? That was a great time wasn't it?

Are you presenting religious differences in NI and dicrimination against gays as alternatives? Or even worse as the only 2 alternatives.

I prefer a different alternative - one free of discrimination

[LCohen]

Surely Christian people should not be legally obliged to provide goods or services that are contrary to their beliefs.If they are being legally compelled to do so then that is discrimination surely.I don't see how a conscience clause is unreasonable.

Tony

A whabbi muslim qualifies as a teacher in england and secures a teaching post in a co-educational school. He asks the girls to sit in the front half of the room and put their fingers in their ears. He then sits in the middle of the room facing the boys who sit at the back of the room. He teaches the boys only and does not let the girls to set eyes upon the boys. Both of his decisions are based upon his religious beliefs. You presumably would back him in his decisions and use and would use the conscience clause to support him should the same situation arise in NI?

[LCohen]

Surely Christian people should not be legally obliged to provide goods or services that are contrary to their beliefs.If they are being legally compelled to do so then that is discrimination surely.I don't see how a conscience clause is unreasonable.

Tony

You are travelling along northway towards lurgan and you suffer pains in your chest and suspect a heart attack. Unwilling to take the risk of remaining in control of your car you pull over and ring an ambulance to take you the short trip to Craigavon hospital. When the ambulance arrives the ambulance driver refuses to assist you becasue you are a sinner and defyer of gods law (as indicated by the trimmed hair around your temples and the cotton-polyester blend in your shirt). No doubt this will please you greatly?

[LCohen]

Will Jewish or Muslim owned butchers be forced to stock pork products?

No. But I guess you and everyine else knew that

[LCohen]

Jesus would love the sinner and hate the sin. Equality is not achieved by approving or tolerating sin,and it is total hypocrisy to advocate gay marriage etc while ridiculing Christianity and Christians

The concept of 'sin' should have no relevance in defining the laws of our country.

As for the hypocrisy you're referring to, can you explain?

Exactly

[LCohen]

Maguire there is increasing intolerance (which exceeds that shown to gay people) being shown to Christians in this Country today.Thats were the hypocrisy lies

I'm unaware of anyone trying to impinge upon your right to believe whatever you want.

There will ofcourse be sensible restriction placed upon how you can act that will have an impact on others

[easytiger95]

Such false equivalency on this thread from some posters (not just Tony).

If you go in to a halal or kosher butchers looking for pork, they'll point you, not unreasonably to the pork butcher down the road. This is because the business they are in is supplying a specific type of food for certain religions.

Same thing if you walk into a umbrella shop for priests (they do exist, you know) and say do you have anything in rainbow, I'm playing a round of golf this afternoon - they'll say, sorry about that there is a McGuirk's across the way.

However, if you set up a cake shop and don't call it "Ecclesiastical Eccles Cakes to Go", then undoubtedly, you will get requests from the general public to fulfill certain needs with those cakes - ie birthdays, weddings etc. As long as the requests are legal, and people aren't asking you to go all Sweeney Todd on it, then as a business person, you should be able to recognise the difference between commerce and religion, and mature enough to understand Christ's adage "render unto Caesar what is Caesars".

Now if you did call it "Ecclesiastical Eccles Cakes" and made the point that you only do religious themed cakes, that would be okay as well. But just don;t expect to stay in business all that long. Which is the grating point here - these peoples' principles are only as deep as their pockets. They are willing to make money out of the general public, without even thinking what the phrase "general public" means. If a Muslim walked into a cake shop and asked for a cake to celebrate, I dunno, the end of Ramadan say, and was told no because of religious principle, there would be war about it. But because homosexuals (even devout ones, of which the Catholic Church has plenty) don't have the explicit cover of religion, they can be discriminated against.

And as for "Fearon Towers", do I even have to point out the twisted logic that would have Bert and Ernie turned away at the door, whilst that nice Mr Grey and his partner Anastasia get the red room at the front, with the bay window and the ankle shackles?

If you're going to stand on religious principles, then at least be consistent and discriminate against everyone you feel violates those principles, put it up on the sign above the door, and exhibit some of this fabled moral courage the devout supposedly possess? And when the liquidator comes (because believe me, he'll have to get there faster than the Equality Authority) at least you can say you fought the "good" fight.

By the way Tony, or should i say Basil, I'm sure homosexuals the world over are so glad that you feel they have "sufficient" rights. I'm sure the Loyalists thought the same in the 60s when they were denying housing, jobs, and civil rights to Catholics.

Maybe the DUP Alliance isn't uch a bad idea after all.

[andoireabu]

If a gay couple wanted to rent a room to clearly spend a night in that room as a normal heterosexual married couple,yes I believe the owner of a B&B should have a right to refuse their custom.

You didn't answer my question though maybe it wasn't totally clear what I was asking.  If two heterosexual men want to stay in your hypothetical b+b in a double room for better value than two single rooms, would you ask if they are gay before letting them in?