Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[slow corner back]

Is the real story at Arsenal not the fact that since they built the emirates they have not had the money to sign top line players. Wenger has built a strategy of bringing through young players and selling them on for a profit, Adebayor, Toure etc. I think he has done well to maintain a champions league position and I think his spin is amazing. "We have millions to spend but dont because my young players are good enough" meanwhile signing Sol Campbell and Mikhael Silvestre as centre half cover. It is patent nonsense but Arsenal fans keep swallowing it. Whatever you think of Wenger you have to admit he can argue that a black crow is white and people believe him.

[Dinny Breen]

In terms of managers who could take arsenal to the next level I would suggest mourinho and hiddinck for starters.

I would say that would be your starters, main course and dessert, Hiddink hasn't won anything of signifigance since the 88 European Cup, when it was knockout, it has won no league title outside of Holland and failed miserably in Spain with Madrid and Betis, his myth is greater than the fact.

Mourhino won't be right for Arsenal and without an open cheque book I'd have my doubts about him too be honest.

[slow corner back]

Mourinhio won the Eufa cup and European cup with Porto without any stand out expensive players. He has won leagues in Portugal,England and Italy now. Much as I dislike the man he is a very succesful manager by any standards.

[ross4life]

Don't be so rose tinted, Man U deserved the win but Arsenal had 7 shots on target to Man U's 5 and had 11 off-target shots compared to Man U's 6, throw in 8 corners to 5 and it's obvious Arsenal wasted their chance whereas Man U were far more clinical and mentally a hell of a lot stronger.

fair point with the stats but nearly all united's off target shot's could have been goals & i don't think Arsenal would have got half those chances if Rio & vidic was playing?

the main point from today's game was United's pace & movement that ripped apart Arsenal's first choice back four & that has to be a major worry for Wenger

[tyroneman]

Quote
In terms of managers who could take arsenal to the next level I would suggest mourinho and hiddinck for starters.

I would say that would be your starters, main course and dessert, Hiddink hasn't won anything of signifigance since the 88 European Cup, when it was knockout, it has won no league title outside of Holland and failed miserably in Spain with Madrid and Betis, his myth is greater than the fact.

Mourhino won't be right for Arsenal and without an open cheque book I'd have my doubts about him too be honest.
.

hiddinck won the FA cup with Chelsea. So I guess that's the first argument taken care of.

Jose will have won 6 leagues in the last 7 years if Inter take the title this time round. So I guess he wouldn't be right for arsenal who seem to prefer pretty losers.

[Dinny Breen]

hiddinck won the FA cup with Chelsea. So I guess that's the first argument taken care of.

What is significant about that? League titles and Champions Leagues are what I consider significant.

Mourihno is class but apart from Porto, which is a lower standard league, he has had an open cheque, he would not have that at Arsenal. 

Still no other alternatives I see.

[Dinny Breen]

fair point with the stats but nearly all united's off target shot's could have been goals & i don't think Arsenal would have got half those chances if Rio & vidic was playing?

the main point from today's game was United's pace & movement that ripped apart Arsenal's first choice back four & that has to be a major worry for Wenger

The simply counter to your first point is that Arsenal were missing RVP, Arsenal's most clinical striker, do you think he would have missed all those chances?

Man U were very impressive and deseved their win but their 1st goal was an a dreadful og, the 2nd was horrific defending Rooney was behind 4 Arsenal players when he started the run and the 3rd again was horrfic with Alumina and Clichy  showing Park a clear path to goal.

Fletcher, Scholes and Carrick squeezed Fabregas everytime he got the ball and he had no help from Denilson who was a passenger, they dominated the middle of the park, Ferguson tactically was superb, throw in excellent performances from  Nani and Rooney who were the games best performers and you have the template to beat Arsenal, and the 4-5-1 Man U played nearly always works for them against Arsenal.

Wenger's strengths are sometimes his biggest weakness.

[ross4life]

fair point with the stats but nearly all united's off target shot's could have been goals & i don't think Arsenal would have got half those chances if Rio & vidic was playing?

the main point from today's game was United's pace & movement that ripped apart Arsenal's first choice back four & that has to be a major worry for Wenger

The simply counter to your first point is that Arsenal were missing RVP, Arsenal's most clinical striker, do you think he would have missed all those chances?

Man U were very impressive and deseved their win but their 1st goal was an a dreadful og, the 2nd was horrific defending Rooney was behind 4 Arsenal players when he started the run and the 3rd again was horrfic with Alumina and Clichy  showing Park a clear path to goal.

Fletcher, Scholes and Carrick squeezed Fabregas everytime he got the ball and he had no help from Denilson who was a passenger, they dominated the middle of the park, Ferguson tactically was superb, throw in excellent performances from  Nani and Rooney who were the games best performers and you have the template to beat Arsenal, and the 4-5-1 Man U played nearly always works for them against Arsenal.

Wenger's strengths are sometimes his biggest weakness.

Van Persie played in the Champion's league semi final last May & i wouldn't exactly call him clinical (only 11 goals his best so far for a season) Arsenal haven't had a Clinical striker since Henry & Fabregas is Arsenal top scorer this season, proves my point

[Dinny Breen]

I said Arsenal's most clinical, 7 goals in 11 appearances this alas he's never had a full season, stop looking for an arguement wore non exists, I'm not going to blindly worship at the Man U altar.

All immaterial, Chelsea will win the league at a canter, far better start xi and squad than any team in the premier league imho.

[tyroneman]

hiddinck won the FA cup with Chelsea. So I guess that's the first argument taken care of.


What is significant about that? League titles and Champions Leagues are what I consider significant.

Mourihno is class but apart from Porto, which is a lower standard league, he has had an open cheque, he would not have that at Arsenal.

Still no other alternatives I see.

For most fans the FA cup still holds significance. For the deluded among the Arsenal set who believe they must eat at a better table, obviously not. Chatting to  lot of Arsenal fans I believe that patience is wearing thin - the booing at the Emirates today suggested that.

Wenger has, and has had, money to spend. It may not be the billions of chelsea but enough to but a top class striker and DM that would at least give Arsenal a chance.

His insistance on trying to win the EPL / CL with "kids" is rapidly turning him into Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy.

As said before - who exaclty are these "kids" who have come through the Arsenal set up and make a real impact this past 5 years???

When Arsenal were winning titles under Wenger - who were the "kids" in the team then?

Lippi
Del Bosque
Capello
Mourinho
Guardiola (on evidence so far)
Hiddinck
Hitzfelt

would all be able to bring Arsenal on, maybe at the expense of 50 passes a move but at least with 3 points in the bag.

[ross4life]

well for what it's worth Chelsea do have the strongest Squad in premier league no thanks to the now departed Ronaldo & Tevez but when it come's to first xi united's is every bit as good as Chelsea's IMHO! & should be a very close title run-in, one which i wouldn't like picking a winner from

[new devil]

well for what it's worth Chelsea do have the strongest Squad in premier league no thanks to the now departed Ronaldo & Tevez but when it come's to first xi united's is every bit as good as Chelsea's IMHO! & should be a very close title run-in, one which i wouldn't like picking a winner from

Ross i don't think united have a better starting 11 that chelsea either...midfield especially..we have to add another midfielder i know hargreaves is coming back but the man hasnt kicked a ball in 18 months..who knows if he will ever be the same again...need a striker badly to help rooney out if he runs dry

[ONeill]

Saw this coming. Arsenal shed goals against good sides. 0-3 Chelsea, 1-3 Utd, 2-4 City etc. Clichy, Denilson and Almunia had mares.

I think Wenger's project has to stop. He seems to set the highest of targets and usually gets them. Going through a season unbeaten was the magical high. This time, it's not working. Winning a title with a group of players he has nurtured since their teens, playing total football, just won't cut it against experience, power and class.

Even if RVP had been there, the gaping holes at the back would also still exist. It's a pity he didn't back up his squad this Jan with experience like a Gattuso or a Villa or an Upson - or players similar to that. I think he is stubbornly holding out hope he can still do it with this squad, winning with this type of football.

Fergie's a different breed to Wenger. Alex just wants to win every year and will do what it takes. Amazing the amount of times he plays Park and Fletcher against Arsenal, and Wenger has yet to find an answer to that. It was a replica of last year's CL game.

As for Arsenal fans, I honestly do believe they are the most patient. They don't demand success. They're the only club who consistently win titles every decade, albeit just 1 or 2 titles, and are always thereabouts. I think the 60s was the only decade they didn't since the 30s. Even during the dark old days of the George Graham years when the football was dire, we grinned and bore it.

[under the bar]

Don't be so rose tinted, Man U deserved the win but Arsenal had 7 shots on target to Man U's 5 and had 11 off-target shots compared to Man U's 6, throw in 8 corners to 5 and it's obvious Arsenal wasted their chance whereas Man U were far more clinical and mentally a hell of a lot stronger.

Quote stats all you like but the fact is Arsenal were completely dominated today by a united team still trying to cope with a crippling injury list.  Arsenal defence was torn to shreds and if united had taken their chances they could have won by 5 or 6.   It was men against boys.  United probably dominated even more than last seasons CL semi final, a complete thrashing in terms of play and scores.

[ONeill]

Arsène Wenger goes public with criticism of Arsenal's frailties

Arsène Wenger was ashen faced on emerging from a desolated home dressing room. Players in whom he had publicly placed his trust, often while those around this club questioned the depth of quality at his disposal, had sunk without trace to veer from the script the manager had envisaged. Wenger had seen this as a chance to prove his team were "mentally prepared" to challenge for the title. In the end it felt like a rude awakening.

The Frenchman's uncharacteristic ­public criticism of his players exposed a sense of near betrayal that was eating away at him after the match. His desperate calls for unity – "It's our job to stick together and show we are strong" – rang hollow amid his more caustic observations. He spoke of "massive individual errors" that will have left Manuel Almunia, Denilson, Gaël Clichy and Samir Nasri numbed and of this being "a massive blow and a massive disappointment". It had been a nightmarish afternoon.

His honesty was brutal. "We were naïve," said Wenger. "We never had any cohesion, offensively or defensively. We were completely not at our level. Why? I believe there are some mental reasons in there." That, perhaps, was the most scathing of his criticisms. This team has been growing under his stewardship and the 10-match unbeaten league sequence that had hauled them back into contention was supposed to have served as confirmation that they were ready to win the club's first silverware since 2005. This team had, apparently, matured.In the context of that optimism this was a regression.

What made it all the more painful was that it was so familiar. The frailties exposed when Chelsea rampaged to victory in this arena back in November, establishing an 11-point lead over their London rivals in the process, had reared again. Lessons have not been learned. Arsenal had been toothless up front that afternoon and unable to cope with Didier Drogba and the visitors' scythingcounter-attacks. Manchester United enjoyed the same prosperity on the break here, while a near identical front-line, Tomas Rosicky having replaced Eduardo, proved just as gummy.

Andrey Arshavin was swamped at times, even by a makeshift and, apparently, vulnerableUnited back-line. The visitors' industry and sheer quality in midfield eclipsed anything the home side could muster and Arsenal were only a sporadic attacking force once chasing the contest. Wenger admitted that he would not be active in the transfer market tomorrow, his efforts at securing a forward to replace the injured Robin van Persie having come to nothing in the midwinter window. Rather, his only reinforcement had been the return of a 35-year-old centre-half. Those Arsenal supporters who had been hoping for a late boost to ease their pain should have known better.

This team still lacks a focal point in its front line. Everything United slid up to Rooney stuck on his instep, allowing an effervescent midfield to charge up in support. Arsenal could summon no such get-out ball. Arshavin veered from flank to centre, desperately trying to eke out space, but was confounded by United's aggression in midfield and clever positioning in defence. Where the visitors were assured, Arsenal merely became flustered."They were better than us today," said Wenger. "We were never close in our marking and you do not win big games like this when you are off your level. We just gave them too much room everywhere and the players are really down because they know we can do much better than that. Two of their goals came from our corners. Their win owed too much to the lack of intelligence of our positioning. We are all conscious that we didn't deliver, but I don't know why we didn't.We were a bit inhibited and tense."

The tension will persist until his own charges can produce drubbings such as this against the others at the top. At the moment they feel frail. Sunday brings a trip to Stamford Bridge, by which time Chelsea could be eight points ahead again. Drogba, this team's nemesis, will be salivating at the thought of flattening their challenge for good. "We will have to deliver a different kind of performance in that game," said Wenger. "We need to do something special to stay in the race.Of course. I'm conscious of that."