The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - Arne to Slot right in?

[SHEEDY]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

[AZOffaly]

I think it's pretty clear that Holgate thought he heard something. He went from calm to mental in a split second, and it wasn't when Firmino was saying about son of a whore. Firmino obviously said something when Kenny's head was blocking the camera, because that's when Holgate lost it.

Now whether it was racist or not is the question. I'd tend to think Holgate misheard him, because of the proximity of the referee, and the other players, and the likelihood that Firmino was spouting in Portuguese.

[brokencrossbar1]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

Key difference is that the ref was in very close proximity to the incident as were several players who firmino said whatever he is alleged to have said. No reaction from anyone else. No action taken by the ref. Also no comment from yourself about the dangerous play by Holgate to set the whole thing off....

[GJL]

I think it's pretty clear that Holgate thought he heard something. He went from calm to mental in a split second, and it wasn't when Firmino was saying about son of a whore. Firmino obviously said something when Kenny's head was blocking the camera, because that's when Holgate lost it.

Now whether it was racist or not is the question. I'd tend to think Holgate misheard him, because of the proximity of the referee, and the other players, and the likelihood that Firmino was spouting in Portuguese.

I'm sure the FA will have other camera angles that will give a better view of what was said. That should clear it up one way or another.

[AZOffaly]

I think it's pretty clear that Holgate thought he heard something. He went from calm to mental in a split second, and it wasn't when Firmino was saying about son of a whore. Firmino obviously said something when Kenny's head was blocking the camera, because that's when Holgate lost it.

Now whether it was racist or not is the question. I'd tend to think Holgate misheard him, because of the proximity of the referee, and the other players, and the likelihood that Firmino was spouting in Portuguese.

I'm sure the FA will have other camera angles that will give a better view of what was said. That should clear it up one way or another.

I'm not sure they would have. I'd imagine they rely on TV cameras.

[haranguerer]

http://www.givemesport.com/1230924-lipreader-explains-what-was-said-between-roberto-firmino-and-mason-holgate

[AZOffaly]

That's all before Kenny gets in the way though.

[blewuporstuffed]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

But we are talking here about one specific incident which was caught on camera and witnessed by the referee and several players.
If it turns out that the video hasn't captured it all, then its just a  he said/she said , we cant conclusively prove either way.
What i am saying is , if they look at all the video angles and they are content that nothing racist was said by firmino, then Holgate should have to apologise for getting it wrong.It is most likely an honest mistake, but its an accusation that Firmino will carry with him regardless.
Of course if it has caught something, then thats a whole other story and Firmino should face a lengthy ban.

[TabClear]

I think it's pretty clear that Holgate thought he heard something. He went from calm to mental in a split second, and it wasn't when Firmino was saying about son of a whore. Firmino obviously said something when Kenny's head was blocking the camera, because that's when Holgate lost it.

Now whether it was racist or not is the question. I'd tend to think Holgate misheard him, because of the proximity of the referee, and the other players, and the likelihood that Firmino was spouting in Portuguese.

Thats probably an i important point. I may be wrong but I'm assuming Holgate does not speak Portuguese. Given  the "Son of a Whore" comment seems accepted as being said and how enraged Firmino was, its unlikely that he switched into English  mid rant therefore you have to assume the obscured comment was also in Portuguese so I agree its probably more likely Holgate misheard. On the other hand, if Holgate turns out to speak fluent Portuguese, that might explain why neither the ref or other players reacted i.e. Holgate is the only one who understood!

[SHEEDY]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

Key difference is that the ref was in very close proximity to the incident as were several players who firmino said whatever he is alleged to have said. No reaction from anyone else. No action taken by the ref. Also no comment from yourself about the dangerous play by Holgate to set the whole thing off....

should have been a yellow card, that goes without saying. Dont think it was a red, although you probably think it was 

[laoislad]

The way I see it it's one of 3 things.

A)Holgate heard something but misinterpreted it as being racist.

B)Firmino actually said something racist

C)Holgate is making it all up and pulled the race card to save himself getting sent off

It's most likely A IMO as if Firmino did say something racist  then the Ref,Lallana or Kenny would also hear it. The Ref surely would have sent him off.Kenny surely would have reacted also. If it is B then ban him.
I doubt it's C because he couldn't be that stupid could he......?

[brokencrossbar1]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

Key difference is that the ref was in very close proximity to the incident as were several players who firmino said whatever he is alleged to have said. No reaction from anyone else. No action taken by the ref. Also no comment from yourself about the dangerous play by Holgate to set the whole thing off....

should have been a yellow card, that goes without saying. Dont think it was a red, although you probably think it was 

He should have been shot at dawn for it

[TabClear]

Exactly

If everything that was said is clearly visible on the video and none of it is what Holgate accuses Firmino off, then of course he should apologise.

Exactly...also there could be retrospective action on the push as that is a red card offence which seems to have been lost in all the furore. Bobby Madley doing he does best....washing his hands of responsibility

Liverpool player rhian brewster accused players from sevilla and spartak moscow of racially abusing him in a uefa youth game. No charges were brought against the players because off a lack of evidence. Should brewster now have to apologise??

Key difference is that the ref was in very close proximity to the incident as were several players who firmino said whatever he is alleged to have said. No reaction from anyone else. No action taken by the ref. Also no comment from yourself about the dangerous play by Holgate to set the whole thing off....

should have been a yellow card, that goes without saying. Dont think it was a red, although you probably think it was 

He should have been shot at dawn for it

Everton should have been thrown out of the FA Cup for it

[johnneycool]

The way I see it it's one of 3 things.

A)Holgate heard something but misinterpreted it as being racist.

B)Firmino actually said something racist

C)Holgate is making it all up and pulled the race card to save himself getting sent off

It's most likely A IMO as if Firmino did say something racist  then the Ref,Lallana or Kenny would also hear it. The Ref surely would have sent him off.Kenny surely would have reacted also. If it is B then ban him.
I doubt it's C because he couldn't be that stupid could he......?

Holgate could hardly make it up when the referee was standing between them. Madley did the sum total of SFA other than being very lenient with Holgate for the push. I'm sure if it was B of C Madley would have been quicker to brandish a red either way. Madley probably isn't fluent in Portuguese either and couldn't send Firmino off for saying something racist if he hadn't a puff what was being said.

My money is on A.

All these lip readers must be able to see through the back of JohnJoes head as well.

[laoislad]

Liverpool v West Brom in 4th round of Cup.