Messages

They should punish the teams when these things happen.

If it happens in the league, dock points. Championship, forfeit the next game or something. Extreme perhaps, but it would put a stop to all this nonsense.

Its ridiculous trying to weed out the offenders in this all-in shite, especially when the film footage isn't great as was the case with Sunday's games. Let the referee sort out the original pair. Once the third man comes into it, punish the team. If both teams jump in, punish both.

The fair thing would be to deduct two league points from each team and then relegate Donegal instead of Kildare on Score difference.

And what about the other two points for you boys from the Tyrone game?

Don't forget Dublin and Kerry

I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of it but the irony of a McGee complaining about physical aggression!

Fair enough, but it was the headlocks, specifically, from what I read.

If there isn't a specific rule that states that a headlock is a red card then the GAA should introduce it into the rulebook, I have no problem with that. It is arguably more dangerous than a lot of current red card offences.

After that, if anybody choked an opponent in a headlock, then if the existing rules allow it issue them with a suspension. As long as the rules are applied evenly to both sides rather than this implication that it is a pre conceived tactic employed specifically by Armagh. Referencing an incident from 2014 bears little relevance to a League match 8 years later.

Dangerous play is a red card as is contributing to a melee and also a red card is striking, either with fist, arm, elbow, knee, foot or head. It was all uncalled for and subs should be in the stand, away ta feck from the sidlines were they are getting worked up along with the management

By not making it a specific offence it is then left down to the interpretation of the referee as to what is deemed dangerous. Is a headlock deemed dangerous? We have seen before how different instances of the same offence are dealt with differently by different referees.

I think there is a degree of dangerous play in those headlocks and I certainly would not like to be on the end of them, Ive ref'd long enough and this for me isn't something I've seen at club level as much, pulling lads apart or lads entering from outside is common but I hope we don't see it this season, once its properly up and running.

It will never have the uniform approach from even the best referees in the country, who you think is the best referee others will have a far less opinion on, his approach will suit your style of how it should be ref'd and others will view it differently, Gaelic games are not ref'd like other sports to be fair, soccer seems to be an easier sport to ref but there are still huge debates during and after the games and these ref's at the top table are professional ref's.

the melee is more in the public eye now due to social media smart phones and better coverage from the national TV stations

I was listening to Aaron Kernan on Sideline Eye podcast ( a much more measured approach than Eamon McGee elsewhere ) and he suggested that Croke Park could be influenced on suspensions by media and social media comment. Does anyone else think this is likely?
As an Armagh man I obviously don't want anyone suspended but if they are genuinely guilty and everyone else is treated equally then they only have themselves to blame. I would hate to think that biased social media comment could influence who gets a ban - especially if anyone has the misfortune to read the Hoganstand Forum !

Players, managers and officials will all look at social media. However, they are not going to be able to go on anything other than the officials report or on video evidence. Tyrone fans are right in their call for consistency in handing out punishments but there have been some obvious differences between what happened in the Tyrone match and the Donegal match with the former punishments were dished out by the referee and were upheld. In the Donegal game we are looking at retrospective suspensions that I think are going to come for both teams.

From an Armagh perspective it does not look good. There will be at least three players suspended for Armagh and there are three for Donegal from what I can make out on the very limited video evidence. There was an instance before the camera panned in to the substitutes where the linesman on the near side of the pitch ran a good 30 meters to intervene where three Donegal players and one of their officials were gathered around Grugan.

If teams get involved with melees there should be team punishments rather than go through this whole farce. It isn't clear what started it - people have their ideas about what initiated it, but there is bias in it. You would get a better analysis on the Sunday game than what you would on Hoganstand. I genuinely would not be surprised if the admins of that website were making multiples accounts and making it look like they have more traffic than they actually have .

Armagh achieved their goal which was to stay in the division.  Doing that with 2 games to go was a bonus. Been a lot said (from Tyrone supporters and Pat Spillane) about our fitness levels in the first couple of games.  If we have worked harder than other counties earlier this year, then so be it, it did the trick and kept us in the division, which is key for this team's development. Armagh won't get taken seriously until they do a lot better in Ulster.

Yes getting a 3rd year in Division 1 was vital. How much the tale off towards the end of league was to do with peaking early or currently involved in hard training remains to be seen. Long overdue a good Ulster championship however well capable of reaching All-Ireland quarter final via the backdoor if required.

It is difficult to know if we have peaked.

McGeeney knows all too well that peaking too early is no good for the championship. However, unlike previous years his job was on the line this year. I am not sure if doing well-ish in division one is a security net for him if things go bad in the championship. Maybe we have peaked as a lot of the Armagh players do not have experience at this level and come the championship things will get a lot tougher.

Was there not a separate thread where Armagh and Tyrone supporters could bellow their grievances about that melee, the aftermath and anything else only related to Armagh Tyrone rivalry.

Might as well start an "Donegal vs Armagh USFC Semi-Final Ballybofey 24/04/22" thread considering yesterday's game is going to have an impact on that one   

From the highlights, they have to act as it was numerous sub's, backroom Staff. R O'Neill seems to pop up all to often  in it.

Rian O'neill, talent that he is, is staring at a 12 week ban thanks to McKeever's tactics

Sorry to break your hopes here but he is the one player that wasn't doing anything. He started off trying to pull people apart up and I think it was his brother who was getting started on by the Donegal player I cannot name (possibly their sub GK) who was starting on everyone, he went over pulled him away. Two donegal players started on him and the Donegal sub keeper headbutted him.

Just pushing and shoving, now clear punches and a headbutt...with the officials shouldering a fair bit of the blame You're all over the shop

Well the latter I didnt say so you need to learn to read.

Secondly, I was happy to look at what happened again - believe it or not watching the footage for 10 seconds on TG4 once wouldn't have been enough

From the highlights, they have to act as it was numerous sub's, backroom Staff. R O'Neill seems to pop up all to often  in it.

Rian O'neill, talent that he is, is staring at a 12 week ban thanks to McKeever's tactics

Sorry to break your hopes here but he is the one player that wasn't doing anything. He started off trying to pull people apart up and I think it was his brother who was getting started on by the Donegal player I cannot name (possibly their sub GK) who was starting on everyone, he went over pulled him away. Two donegal players started on him and the Donegal sub keeper headbutted him. 

Why no footage of the man who apparently started it all off? Michael Murphy. Very grainy footage with selective bits left in and nobody highlighted out.

It's probably lucky the Sunday Game were under time constraints tonight and that it was Whelan and McStay in studio. Knowing the way things work in GAA it wouldn't surprise me if both counties get a small fine and everybody is happy (except Tyrone).

This is the problem with it. Even if they did give out suspensions the footage is not clear enough - a lot of the time it is filling in the blanks mentally.

There wil be a few armagh and Donegal players sweating alright. You didn't have to slow it down to see a few digs and headlocks. Bad enough getting suspended for a league game but for the championship it's completely stupid. However I have a feeling there won't be any suspensions handed out.

Which players are you talking about?

Couldn't see their numbers as most of it seem to be from the subs  on both teams and the Sunday game footage was short. However there definitely was strikes and at least 2 headlocks . Like I said I don't think they will be any major action take as sure everyone knows the rules are as inconsistent as can be.

True. HQ only seen to take retrospective action against big teams like Tyrone. Perennial failures like Armagh get away with their brand of dirt since it never gets them anywhere

Armagh living in your head rent free as they say.

Now to be fair there is a right few digs and head locks there. Number 15 for armagh at 19seconds clear punch in the head. Sub for Armagh at 29 seconds clear headlock. Donegal player at 44 seconds strikes armagh  player

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1508193364159733767?t=WYP2hoiINajAMsCGTNyzWg&s=19

There are certainly plenty of incidents and Jamar Hall is going to be lucky. O'Donnell shoved him forcefully in the back to the floor while he was walking away. A few seconds later he has Hall in a headlock and throws him to the ground. Hall was livid and retaliates.

There is a Donegal player who I cannot identify who was going around looking to start a few fights. At one point the player forceful pushes his head - could interpret it as a headbutt into O'Neills face. The same guy grabbed McCabe by the throat, Sheridan was involved and looks to have struck him 

McMenamin appears to have struck Duffy in the face

Again I would say a degree of common sense needs to be applied when looking at these incidents in hindsight. They are in the heat of the moment and a kind of fight or flight response takes overs. The issue is with the gaa trying to stamp their authority on it they often are inconsistent with how they apply the rules themselves.

They are now in the difficult position that they have to try and be consistant ahead of the championship otherwise the whole thing is a shambles.

The problem is with a lot of it - though from my end is the clarity of the pictures. The most obvious suspensions for me are Hall and Sheridan for Armagh. I think it was the Donegal sub goalkeeper going around starting on every other Armagh player - I think 5 players in total. The other clear cut hit was from McMenamin into the face of Duffy. I think they will be the four that are suspended.

Something definitely happened to Grugan before the referee whistled.

There wil be a few armagh and Donegal players sweating alright. You didn't have to slow it down to see a few digs and headlocks. Bad enough getting suspended for a league game but for the championship it's completely stupid. However I have a feeling there won't be any suspensions handed out.

Which players are you talking about?

Couldn't see their numbers as most of it seem to be from the subs  on both teams and the Sunday game footage was short. However there definitely was strikes and at least 2 headlocks . Like I said I don't think they will be any major action take as sure everyone knows the rules are as inconsistent as can be.

True. HQ only seen to take retrospective action against big teams like Tyrone. Perennial failures like Armagh get away with their brand of dirt since it never gets them anywhere

Armagh living in your head rent free as they say.

Now to be fair there is a right few digs and head locks there. Number 15 for armagh at 19seconds clear punch in the head. Sub for Armagh at 29 seconds clear headlock. Donegal player at 44 seconds strikes armagh  player

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1508193364159733767?t=WYP2hoiINajAMsCGTNyzWg&s=19

There are certainly plenty of incidents and Jamar Hall is going to be lucky. O'Donnell shoved him forcefully in the back to the floor while he was walking away. A few seconds later he has Hall in a headlock and throws him to the ground. Hall was livid and retaliates.

There is a Donegal player who I cannot identify who was going around looking to start a few fights. At one point the player forceful pushes his head - could interpret it as a headbutt into O'Neills face. The same guy grabbed McCabe by the throat, Sheridan was involved and looks to have struck him 

McMenamin appears to have struck Duffy in the face

There wil be a few armagh and Donegal players sweating alright. You didn't have to slow it down to see a few digs and headlocks. Bad enough getting suspended for a league game but for the championship it's completely stupid. However I have a feeling there won't be any suspensions handed out.

Which players are you talking about?

Couldn't see their numbers as most of it seem to be from the subs  on both teams and the Sunday game footage was short. However there definitely was strikes and at least 2 headlocks . Like I said I don't think they will be any major action take as sure everyone knows the rules are as inconsistent as can be.

True. HQ only seen to take retrospective action against big teams like Tyrone. Perennial failures like Armagh get away with their brand of dirt since it never gets them anywhere

Armagh living in your head rent free as they say.

Aye, that was worse than the Tyrone v Armagh one. There actually was boxing in this one.

Rian O'Neill must be on a sweat for the jab to the back of the head.

And headbutts.

There were some good points in the game and two goals they could have talked about to be honest. Nothing on Tyrone and Kerry I suppose.

RTE seemed to have forgot there was actually a game between Donegal and Armagh 

Half the problem is supporters of teams involved trying to defend the indefensible. Can't admit there a problem here. TV showed a number of players been swung to the ground so it above more than pushing or shoving. What's the subs and background team on the field getting involved for.

But I've seen one post already that's looking to blame those officiating the game! Christ

Who blamed the officiating?

If only poor officiating was put under the same scrutiny.

Because it is a bigger problem within the game than the pushing and shoving that goes on. That wasn't a comment against the officiating of the Donegal v Armagh game it was merely a point to show there are other significant problems that need to be dealt with. 

The row started at the end with McFadden-Ferry of Donegal going up into Aidan Nugents face and shouting. A pushing match started, with most players involved. Not a pile in it i thought. Donegal were goading armagh the whole match, with a lot of cynical fouling also. Nrs 4 and 7 for Donegal the worst culprits. They are a hard team to watch

Interesting I thought what started it was Murphy running up to Grugan on the far side of the pitch and giving him a belt round the back of the head in retaliation for a kick Grugan put in on Murphy earlier. Then two other Donegal players going to assist Murphy 3 on 1. Seemed to me that Armagh men went to go to Grugan assistance. Got blocked off and things kicked off from there.

Maybe the two things were unrelated and it was just coincidence of timing.

As for the incident itself I'd be surprised if there weren't suspensions handed out, very silly thing for either team to get involved with but not entirely surprising given the needle throughout in a largely meaningless game.
[/quote
Grugan was at our side at the final whistle. McMenamin (Donegal no 7) started on him. He had been dishing it out throughout the match. Fancies himself as a bit of a hard man by the looks of things. McGee's contribution whilst he was on the field as a temporary sub was pathetic also. Obviously came on to try and get a rise out of Rian whose temperament has improved dramatically. A few years ago he would have fell for it and started swinging.

The problems with all of this

1. The cameraman had the camera panned out from where the melee took place. However, something did kick off on the opposite side of the field (I think it was Grugan) who was surrounded by players and the linesman walked over to intervene  - so he obviously saw something.

Armagh were not looking pretty especially Hall who swiftly approached a Donegal player and tried a swing but missed from what I could see. There was too much of one players getting involved to try and stop an incident and then an opposition player coming over and flaring another argument up.