Player Injury Fund

[Norf Tyrone]

Folks
A quick query that I am sure affects most Clubs. These days players appear to be getting more serious injuries (That's a different debate altogether), and subsequently the cost of physio, operations etc is on the increase. Off the top of my head the GAA will cover the first £3500 of any treatment.

Previously this was adequate, however we're seeing treatment coming in these days for 4, 5, 6 grand etc.

The question, how do Clubs, administer this? Clubs are getting it tight for cash these days, so I am sure very few contribute much more than a token to the difference. However at the same time, very few players can afford the difference as well.

Anyone do anything innovative or different here?

[bogball88]

Just to let you know Norf what my experience was.

Tore my ACL playing a league match, initial appointment with consultant was £180 with MRI that same day which was £300 plus all to be paid for on the day. I had a further appointment with consultant to read MRI results and arrange op which was £90. On day of operation another £3500 had to be paid up front. After I gathered up all the receipts and sent in relevant forms I got the max £3500 back (or its equivalent in Euros, not too sure now) which covered the operation but still left me out of pocket for consultants fees and MRI. Club thankfully reimbursed me this amount for which I was very greatful for and the only money I was out of pocket for was for the exchange rates!

[Bingo]

Was at the recent Ulster gaa club conference day and Willis give a talk on the insurance scheme.

Basically they are finding that clinics and the like are charging GAA players/clubs more as they know the scheme will be paying it. Players/clubs insist on using a select few clinics it seems and they are controlling the price. They are looking to tie in certain clinics to the scheme and agree a price but this is proving difficult.

The scheme is in decent order now after been bailed out in the initial years by the GAA. They also said that the excess levels could be improved if more claims were made to personal policies ie VHI first and they'd meet the balance. Players avoid this as the fear their premiums will go up and it is more hassle for them. They just get the club to do it.  Other drains on the scheme was players/clubs transferring injuries into the scheme ie injured in other sport and claim on the GAA scheme.

They tried to introduce personal injury cover for players in the initial years of the scheme but the take up so very poor and unfeasible, so it was quickly stopped.

We would always cover the shortfall as a club, can be costly but a burden you have to take at times. We would be strict in it and refused a few suspect claims for operations and scans.

The only thing that can be done is encourage personal policies such as the VHI but the way it is going cost wise there is very few people renewing it or entering it.

[Norf Tyrone]

Thanks lads.

To me some sort of provincial/ national lead initiative is required here. I think there's a lot of cogs pulling in different directions, and doing their own thing. If all Clubs pulled together in a system, surely it would be cheaper.

Bingo- See regarding the scheme you run, are you not afraid that you could be caught for a major bill? How do you decide if a guys taking the hand or not, and if you decide that, how do you avoid fall out!

[Bingo]

Thanks lads.

To me some sort of provincial/ national lead initiative is required here. I think there's a lot of cogs pulling in different directions, and doing their own thing. If all Clubs pulled together in a system, surely it would be cheaper.

Bingo- See regarding the scheme you run, are you not afraid that you could be caught for a major bill? How do you decide if a guys taking the hand or not, and if you decide that, how do you avoid fall out!

Firstly, I assume or always thought its a national scheme run by Willis for Croke Park? The shortfall or an annual contribution is made by Croke park to put additional funds into the pot for the claims. This covers not just the injury scheme but public liability claims etc.

We are in the Willis/Croke Park scheme, we don't run our own scheme. We work it three ways - has player his own cover? If so he claims off that and the unpaid part goes to Willis. If he doesn't have own cover, we claim off Willis, the club will cover the shortfall and/or excess not covered by the Willis scheme.

We do take a hit from time to time, we follow professioanl advice on extent of injury, use second opinion and send players to a highly regarded physio practice if they have serious issues. In a number of cases, their opinion and treatment would have prevented an operation, which is in everyones interest. I can think of one player coming out of minor who needed major surgery on hip, the feeling was that he had no real interest in playing but would have had continuing problems as an adult. Club discussed and felt they had to cover the excess on the operation, which between flights and costs, ran into a few thousand for the club. He hasn't played since and not cause he is still injured, just not interested.

At the time another player, senior player, wanted an scan and operation on knee. We knew he didn't do it playing for club and he admitted this, we said no, it wasn't our operation. Stood our ground and management seen this. He huffed and puffed for a while and a few words where exchanged but he worked his way through it with no operation and is still playing.

Its not easy but we;d have a very on the ball insurance officer and she'd cover everything and minimise risk and false claims. If the scheme wasn't there I generally don't know what clubs would do.

I often thought that a county board could employ a full time fully qualified physio for use by the clubs who could pay the cost or subsidise it at the very least on an annual basis. Would save money for clubs and also the county board I'd imagine.

[Norf Tyrone]

Thanks lads.

To me some sort of provincial/ national lead initiative is required here. I think there's a lot of cogs pulling in different directions, and doing their own thing. If all Clubs pulled together in a system, surely it would be cheaper.

Bingo- See regarding the scheme you run, are you not afraid that you could be caught for a major bill? How do you decide if a guys taking the hand or not, and if you decide that, how do you avoid fall out!

Firstly, I assume or always thought its a national scheme run by Willis for Croke Park? The shortfall or an annual contribution is made by Croke park to put additional funds into the pot for the claims. This covers not just the injury scheme but public liability claims etc.

We are in the Willis/Croke Park scheme, we don't run our own scheme. We work it three ways - has player his own cover? If so he claims off that and the unpaid part goes to Willis. If he doesn't have own cover, we claim off Willis, the club will cover the shortfall and/or excess not covered by the Willis scheme.

We do take a hit from time to time, we follow professioanl advice on extent of injury, use second opinion and send players to a highly regarded physio practice if they have serious issues. In a number of cases, their opinion and treatment would have prevented an operation, which is in everyones interest. I can think of one player coming out of minor who needed major surgery on hip, the feeling was that he had no real interest in playing but would have had continuing problems as an adult. Club discussed and felt they had to cover the excess on the operation, which between flights and costs, ran into a few thousand for the club. He hasn't played since and not cause he is still injured, just not interested.

At the time another player, senior player, wanted an scan and operation on knee. We knew he didn't do it playing for club and he admitted this, we said no, it wasn't our operation. Stood our ground and management seen this. He huffed and puffed for a while and a few words where exchanged but he worked his way through it with no operation and is still playing.

Its not easy but we;d have a very on the ball insurance officer and she'd cover everything and minimise risk and false claims. If the scheme wasn't there I generally don't know what clubs would do.

I often thought that a county board could employ a full time fully qualified physio for use by the clubs who could pay the cost or subsidise it at the very least on an annual basis. Would save money for clubs and also the county board I'd imagine.

Bingo

Sorry I badly worded my reply. Yes Willis is the National scheme. However what I mean, is that a collective scheme where say a County Board puts all operations, MRIs etc out to tender. All Club's are then obliged to use the same practice. The obvious advantage here would be that as the practice is getting a lot of trade, the price would be much lower.

I'd be dubious to the scheme that you run- and indeed works very well it appears- would work with us. Trust is a critical element in it.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.