Just saw schedule for 2014, posted below, pretty significant changes, if I am not mistaken, it means that Ulster runner up and Leinster runner up cannot meet Connacht or Munster winners in Q/Final. Similarly, it means that Connacht and Munster runner ups cannot meet Ulster or Leinster winners in Q/Final.
Also significant in my mind, is that four Q/Finals are not on August Bank holiday weekend. That is annoying as I always viewed that weekend as the real beginning of the championship. It was always a great weekend of football.
26 Iúil
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship Round 4a
(Connacht finalists v Rd3a Winner; Munster Finalists v Rd 3a Winner)
2/3/4 Lúnasa (Sat/Sun/Mon)
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship Round 4a
(Ulster finalists v Rd3b Winner; Leinster Finalists v Rd 3b Winner)
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship Quarter Finals
(Connacht v Round 4a Winner, Munster v Round 4a Winner)
9 Lúnasa
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship Quarter Finals
(Ulster v Round 4b Winner, Leinster v Round 4b Winner)
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
First and second rounds in back door rounds are for the most part meaningless.
Quote from: joemamas on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
First and second rounds in back door rounds are for the most part meaningless.
Where do you get this dung from?
Quote from: joemamas on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
While there was great excitement in Clones when Monaghan won the Ulster it ( no more than Limerick hurlers) was only a sideshow once the Quarter Finals came round and is probably well forgotten by everyone outside Monaghan ....
and Donegal
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2013, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
While there was great excitement in Clones when Monaghan won the Ulster it ( no more than Limerick hurlers) was only a sideshow once the Quarter Finals came round and is probably well forgotten by everyone outside Monaghan ....and Donegal
And in Roscommon apparently.
There's only a select few counties with enough arrogance and success to think the championship begins in August.
I agree with Syferus on this one. We in Mayo have been lucky to be playing championship football in August the past 3 seasons. Ideally we'd be playing every August, but we all know that things can go wrong for us before August comes around.
So the Connacht champions still play q/f on the august weekend?
And what on earth are you on about Rossie bucks ? everyone loves the august weekend, sobbin about poor aul little us ,as if it's some sort of arrogance in saying the championship proper starts on aug weekend . Like it or lump it, that's the truth of the matter , there will be a day when Mayo are not regular participants in q/fs but it won't alter my opinion, it will just mean Mayo will no longer be good enough to participate in the championship proper.
Pre 2001 the real championship didn't start until the All Ireland semi finals?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 02:41:48 AM
Pre 2001 the real championship didn't start until the All Ireland semi finals?
Not really because there was an almighty bite to provincial finals with no backdoor and earlier rounds too.
Quote from: larryin89 on November 30, 2013, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 02:41:48 AM
Pre 2001 the real championship didn't start until the All Ireland semi finals?
Not really because there was an almighty bite to provincial finals with no backdoor and earlier rounds too.
The Ulster championship hasn't lost much of its bite. Earlier rounds games Derry v Down,Tyrone v Donegal were some of the best games this summer. Munster is unchanged with Cork,Kerry. It seems an unfair balance in Connacht,Leinster with the amount of money Dublin,Mayo are allowed to spend however at least Dublin have won two All Irelands from that money spent.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 30, 2013, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 02:41:48 AM
Pre 2001 the real championship didn't start until the All Ireland semi finals?
Not really because there was an almighty bite to provincial finals with no backdoor and earlier rounds too.
The Ulster championship hasn't lost much of its bite. Earlier rounds games Derry v Down,Tyrone v Donegal were some of the best games this summer. Munster is unchanged with Cork,Kerry. It seems an unfair balance in Connacht,Leinster with the amount of money Dublin,Mayo are allowed to spend however at least Dublin have won two All Irelands from that money spent.
Are there caps in place elsewhere?
Quote from: larryin89 on November 30, 2013, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 30, 2013, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 30, 2013, 02:41:48 AM
Pre 2001 the real championship didn't start until the All Ireland semi finals?
Not really because there was an almighty bite to provincial finals with no backdoor and earlier rounds too.
The Ulster championship hasn't lost much of its bite. Earlier rounds games Derry v Down,Tyrone v Donegal were some of the best games this summer. Munster is unchanged with Cork,Kerry. It seems an unfair balance in Connacht,Leinster with the amount of money Dublin,Mayo are allowed to spend however at least Dublin have won two All Irelands from that money spent.
Are there caps in place elsewhere?
Caps should be put on the bigger counties.
Teams such as Sligo,Longford,Leitrim,Louth could only dream of spending what Dublin,Mayo are currently spending.
Well let them go and raise the money so. If supporters care they'll dig deep.
I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure club Tyrone thing is an example of supporters putting their money where their mouth is and seeing the rewards for it.
I mean what are ya looking at in lay man terms, 10k supporters to cough up a ton a piece towards training fund. One man job give him 50k, easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Reported on the radio there that losers from the preliminary rounds in Leinster/Ulster would go into the Connacht/Munster championships, presumably eliminating one round of qualifers??
A bit unexpected, not sure how it would work.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2013, 11:33:50 AM
Reported on the radio there that losers from the preliminary rounds in Leinster/Ulster would go into the Connacht/Munster championships, presumably eliminating one round of qualifers??
A bit unexpected, not sure how it would work.
See this is breaking from the FRC.
The first round of qualifiers will have 16 teams - has this changed? Must have as they say that some teams could now lose two games and still win All Ireland eg lose match in ulster, lose match in Connacht and win through qualifiers.
There's a college American football match scheduled for Croke Park on Saturday August 30th.
Where does that leave the All-Ireland football semi-final that would normally be played on that weekend, given that the pitch will be a mess from the previous day?
What are the dates for the 2014 All-Irelands- the 7th/21st or 14th/28th?
Important that people know this if they're trying to get the hotels booked, otherwise you could have people booking the wrong weekend, and we wouldn't want that.
Quote from: Sidney on December 09, 2013, 12:17:19 PM
There's a college American football match scheduled for Croke Park on Saturday August 30th.
Where does that leave the All-Ireland football semi-final that would normally be played on that weekend, given that the pitch will be a mess from the previous day?
What are the dates for the 2014 All-Irelands- the 7th/21st or 14th/28th?
Important that people know this if they're trying to get the hotels booked, otherwise you could have people booking the wrong weekend, and we wouldn't want that.
Semi-finals are last two Sundays in August,
August 24th Connacht champions (or whoever beats them) V Munster champions(or whoever beats them).
August 31st Ulster champions (or whoever beats them) V Leinster champions (or whoever beats them)
Q/finals which used to be held on August Bank Holiday are now played over two weekends. Sunday Aug 3rd and Saturday August 9th. Hurling semi-final is scheduled for Sunday August 10th.
Why not just put 2 more counties into Connacht and call it a West division,
Roscommon
Leitrim
London
Sligo
Galway
Mayo
Longford
Westmeath
two more into Munster and call it the South division,
Clare
Cork
Kerry
Waterford
Tipperary
Limerick
Laois
Offaly
Ulster (North) would be
Donegal
Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Monaghan
Leinster (East)
Louth
Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Meath
Cavan
Carlow
Kildare
(kilkenny left out)
New York would play preliminary game in Connacht
Because the feeling seems to be that nobody is willing to permanently move province. I think this proposal is deemed to be more palatable because counties aren't being asked to move permanently, though I'm not sure there'll be much support either way.
Quote from: neilthemac on December 09, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Why not just put 2 more counties into Connacht and call it a West division,
Roscommon
Leitrim
London
Sligo
Galway
Mayo
Longford
Westmeath
two more into Munster and call it the South division,
Clare
Cork
Kerry
Waterford
Tipperary
Limerick
Laois
Offaly
Ulster (North) would be
Donegal
Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Monaghan
Leinster (East)
Louth
Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Meath
Cavan
Carlow
Kildare
(kilkenny left out)
New York would play preliminary game in Connacht
kind of like this idea but dunno how happy Cavan would be playing in Leinster and not Ulster any longer ...
It is also proposed that the All-Ireland Club Football final be moved from the now traditional date of St Patrick's Day to a date in December, meaning the club championships would be run off in the calendar year.
As I said before this sounds good, but has some problems. You need 5 rounds minimum and 6 rounds in some provinces to get to the AI final. Replays can happen e.g. Cross v Kilcoo, so you need 10-12 weeks, so you need all county championships finished in September. This might have implications for the date of the intercounty AI final, it might also mean that many clubs would be out of the championship long before that, which might be relevant given the comments in the other thread that teams stop training after they are knocked out of the championship.
Quote from: Bingo on December 09, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2013, 11:33:50 AM
Reported on the radio there that losers from the preliminary rounds in Leinster/Ulster would go into the Connacht/Munster championships, presumably eliminating one round of qualifers??
A bit unexpected, not sure how it would work.
So New York getting the boot from Connacht.
As for lumping the dross of Ulster/Leinster on top of us........ How in the name of God can it then be called a "Connacht" championship.
All we need is a Tyrone v Kildare "Connacht" Final ... What will Prenty do then?
Did someone mention a college football game on August 30th? Oh lord, I love college football but I can picture the hurling final a week later with number and hash markers all over the field.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2013, 04:35:09 PM
Quote from: Bingo on December 09, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2013, 11:33:50 AM
Reported on the radio there that losers from the preliminary rounds in Leinster/Ulster would go into the Connacht/Munster championships, presumably eliminating one round of qualifers??
A bit unexpected, not sure how it would work.
So New York getting the boot from Connacht.
As for lumping the dross of Ulster/Leinster on top of us........ How in the name of God can it then be called a "Connacht" championship.
All we need is a Tyrone v Kildare "Connacht" Final ... What will Prenty do then?
Have a bumper final in McHale Park! Jez, this would solve loads of problems?
I've been reading the report and cannot see why they need to do this inter Province transfer of the 4 prel round losers.
All their other less than radical proposals can still apply without the need for this nonsense.
The (real) Provincial Qtr Finals can still be played over two successive weekends while the prel losers can get on with their club competitions as they await their Qualifier game.
Getting County Senior/Inter championships advanced to Semi final stage by August weekend is an excellent idea ( but what about the Semi Pro Yankee stuff?).
For all you traditionalists out there they propose keeping the Railway Cup and just to balance that for ye they also propose keeping the Intl Rules.
QuoteI've been reading the report and cannot see why they need to do this inter Province transfer of the 4 prel round losers.
It makes the Munster and Connacht championships less of a joke.
Quote from: joemamas on December 09, 2013, 01:08:59 PM
Semi-finals are last two Sundays in August,
August 24th Connacht champions (or whoever beats them) V Munster champions(or whoever beats them).
August 31st Ulster champions (or whoever beats them) V Leinster champions (or whoever beats them)
Q/finals which used to be held on August Bank Holiday are now played over two weekends. Sunday Aug 3rd and Saturday August 9th. Hurling semi-final is scheduled for Sunday August 10th.
Presumably that means that there will be massive "Penn State" and "University of Central Florida" logos on the 21 at each end for the football semi-final on the 31st?
Fantastic
Could this mean I could look forward to three summer defeats >:(
Quote from: neilthemac on December 09, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Why not just put 2 more counties into Connacht and call it a West division,
Roscommon
Leitrim
London
Sligo
Galway
Mayo
Longford
Westmeath
two more into Munster and call it the South division,
Clare
Cork
Kerry
Waterford
Tipperary
Limerick
Laois
Offaly
Ulster (North) would be
Donegal
Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Monaghan
Leinster (East)
Louth
Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Meath
Cavan
Carlow
Kildare
(kilkenny left out)
New York would play preliminary game in Connacht
this is a lot fairer than the unbalanced set up we currently have. something along these lines should be examined.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2013, 05:25:36 PM
QuoteI've been reading the report and cannot see why they need to do this inter Province transfer of the 4 prel round losers.
It makes the Munster and Connacht championships less of a joke.
Don't be so bloody cheeky :P
Having the dross of other Provinces will make them a proper joke FFS >:(
Quote from: larryin89 on November 30, 2013, 09:22:25 PM
Well let them go and raise the money so. If supporters care they'll dig deep.
I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure club Tyrone thing is an example of supporters putting their money where their mouth is and seeing the rewards for it.
I mean what are ya looking at in lay man terms, 10k supporters to cough up a ton a piece towards training fund. One man job give him 50k, easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Larry,
Don't know where you are from but I love your innocence/ optimism!
10000 supporters at £100 a pop. Wonder how many counties could do that?
If accounts are true that amount would not get anywhere near what Morgan pumped into Armagh coffers, and that was in the good times!
I'd say that the number of supporters you could get to throw £100 into a county pot could be measured in hundreds at best, and odds on most are already throwing that sort of money at their own club as well, if not more.
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 09, 2013, 06:19:30 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 09, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Why not just put 2 more counties into Connacht and call it a West division,
Roscommon
Leitrim
London
Sligo
Galway
Mayo
Longford
Westmeath
two more into Munster and call it the South division,
Clare
Cork
Kerry
Waterford
Tipperary
Limerick
Laois
Offaly
Ulster (North) would be
Donegal
Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Monaghan
Leinster (East)
Louth
Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Meath
Cavan
Carlow
Kildare
(kilkenny left out)
New York would play preliminary game in Connacht
this is a lot fairer than the unbalanced set up we currently have. something along these lines should be examined.
The North-South-East-West idea has merit because it maintains geographical links which are vital for maintaining interest in the early stages of the championship in particular.
With 4 trophies still up for grabs this gives a lot of teams realistic ambitions of winning some silverware.
An open draw with one trophy for the outright winner is not a model I would be in favour of.
Quote from: sammymaguire on December 09, 2013, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 09, 2013, 01:33:14 PM
Why not just put 2 more counties into Connacht and call it a West division,
Roscommon
Leitrim
London
Sligo
Galway
Mayo
Longford
Westmeath
two more into Munster and call it the South division,
Clare
Cork
Kerry
Waterford
Tipperary
Limerick
Laois
Offaly
Ulster (North) would be
Donegal
Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Monaghan
Leinster (East)
Louth
Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Meath
Cavan
Carlow
Kildare
(kilkenny left out)
New York would play preliminary game in Connacht
kind of like this idea but dunno how happy Cavan would be playing in Leinster and not Ulster any longer ...
A change is always good. The Cavan juniors have been playing Leinster Junior for the last 5 years.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2013, 05:25:36 PM
It makes the Munster and Connacht championships less of a joke.
Image the effect of Antrim and Carlow transferring into Connacht after losing in their perspective provinces. Do you think they would improve the Connacht championship?
Another dilemma would be, say Tyrone got beat in the first round of the Ulster Championship. Not (really) caring about the Connacht Championship they experiment with a few games, resting players and lose in the Connacht final. So they are into the last 12 rested with 2 games lost in the Championship(?).
This is a typical GAA solution. The real solutions wouldn't get passed so this halfway house type of thing comes before us. It simply doesn't address a lot of the issues we have and probably creates a few new ones.
Quote from: Zulu on December 09, 2013, 08:46:08 PM
This is a typical GAA solution. The real solutions wouldn't get passed so this halfway house type of thing comes before us. It simply doesn't address a lot of the issues we have and probably creates a few new ones.
Was listening to McGee on the radio on my way home thinking exactly the same thing.
I am on my arse ever going up to to Castlebar to watch Down play a Connacht QF.
Why any team would want 3 opportunities to reinforce it's not their year is simply beyond me.
You are transferred on league positions. Good idea but could be same teams every year in each province.
Overall positive IMO.
32 county Ireland, 4 provinces, we end up with 9, 5, 12, 6.
Nth, Sth, East and West Divisions or conferences seem the most sensible way.
Keeps broad geographical connections and you still have 4 divisional/conference councils running their own competitions so no loss of power or esteem.
Only problem would be with the counties moving home. At least one of them would refuse to go along with it.
It is called the All-Ireland Championship - put it back the way it was. Oh that's right think of the money the GAA would lose. ::)
Quote from: Cold tea on December 10, 2013, 07:35:58 PM
It is called the All-Ireland Championship - put it back the way it was.
Only 4 teams got to compete in the All Ireland Championship "the way it was". Now 32 teams do.
I see Liam O'Neill calling for the proposals raised by the FRC to be debated and they won't be going to Congress 2014.
Is that code for " This is not a runner ladeens"?
Is the current system so bad?
Some good local skirmishes early on and usually, more or less, the top teams are there for the quarter finals. Is this not what a competition needs?
I think it's pretty poor on a number of grounds -
1. It's unfair due to uneven numbers in the provinces
2. Too many pointless games and not enough important ones, way more McKenna cup type games and league games than championship.
3. All teams don't have to play the same number of games to win an AI
4. Lacks structure, so club players haven't a clue when they're playing
There's a few more but the above is reason enough to change it.
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2013, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
While there was great excitement in Clones when Monaghan won the Ulster it ( no more than Limerick hurlers) was only a sideshow once the Quarter Finals came round and is probably well forgotten by everyone outside Monaghan ....and Donegal
And in Roscommon apparently.
There's only a select few counties with enough arrogance and success to think the championship begins in August.
Would you call it arrogance?
For the serious contenders that's when it starts.
Leinster & Ulster preliminary round losers to Connacht and Munster - a very innovative idea from the FRC.
On a given year you might have Louth/Meath, Kildare/Wexford, Laois/Offaly going to Connacht (1 of the 3) or Munster (2 of the 3)
and prelim-Ulster losers, e.g. Cavan/Fermanagh, going to Connacht too.
It would add some spice to Connacht and Munster championships. Kerry/Cork Vs Meath in Munster - bring it on !
Four provincial championships each having 8 teams - good proposal from Eugene McGee and colleagues.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on December 10, 2013, 10:55:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2013, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
Never got the shite about the championship 'beginning in August'. The heart of the championship lays far away from Dublin.
The schedule just adds some certainty to the qualifiers and that's an excellent change, the trade-off is very much worth it.
Right or wrong, a lot of players, managers and supporters view that weekend as the beginning of the real championship.
In Connacht last year, Mayo played Galway in May, after that it was pretty obvious who the winner was going to be. Munster annual two horse race, Leinster, Dublin have won 8 out of 10. Ulster is competitive no doubt.
While there was great excitement in Clones when Monaghan won the Ulster it ( no more than Limerick hurlers) was only a sideshow once the Quarter Finals came round and is probably well forgotten by everyone outside Monaghan ....and Donegal
And in Roscommon apparently.
There's only a select few counties with enough arrogance and success to think the championship begins in August.
Would you call it arrogance?
For the serious contenders that's when it starts.
This year there was only two serious contenders.
The reality is that for the vast majority of counties the championship is what it is by August bank holiday, almost over and not almost beginning. That line is thrown around far too much for my liking. It's a subtle insult, plain and simple.
For Kerry and Dublin I'm sure it's great that they can look beyond the rest of the year but few have that luxury at any time, nevermind endlessly. Croke Park in August is the prize, not where the blasted thing begins.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on December 10, 2013, 07:35:58 PM
It is called the All-Ireland Championship - put it back the way it was.
Only 4 teams got to compete in the All Ireland Championship "the way it was". Now 32 teams do.
I see Liam O'Neill calling for the proposals raised by the FRC to be debated and they won't be going to Congress 2014.
Is that code for " This is not a runner ladeens"?
And it's nothing to do with the GAA making loads more money?
Quote from: Cold tea on December 11, 2013, 06:53:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on December 10, 2013, 07:35:58 PM
It is called the All-Ireland Championship - put it back the way it was.
Only 4 teams got to compete in the All Ireland Championship "the way it was". Now 32 teams do.
I see Liam O'Neill calling for the proposals raised by the FRC to be debated and they won't be going to Congress 2014.
Is that code for " This is not a runner ladeens"?
And it's nothing to do with the GAA making loads more money?
What the fcuk do YOU want ? Free admission to all games or what?
Anyway they've been called the "Grab All Association" by anti GAA people for decades long before Qualifiers etc came in so like in all walks of life money is a very handy oul thing to have.
It looks like the FRC was reading my suggestion here.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23836.msg1285959#msg1285959
Anything else you want me to help with Eugene? :P
i have many other suggestions!
Quote from: moysider on December 10, 2013, 09:52:00 PM
Is the current system so bad?
Some good local skirmishes early on and usually, more or less, the top teams are there for the quarter finals. Is this not what a competition needs?
Obviously the FRC think it's not too bad either but to show they were doing something they decided to add four meaningless illogical games to the real Connacht and Munster Championships to turn them into the "Connacht (with a bit of Ulster and a biteen of Leinster)" and a "Munster (with one sixth of Leinster)" Championships.
You can still have all the Provincial Qtr Finals played over 2 weekends ( excepting the NY one) - you'll have 12 real Provincial games instead of 16 incl 4 makey uppey ones.
These 4 silly games will add nothing to anything except make silly GAAboard posters from Ulster think they're great lads as they seem to have a fixation with the Connacht and Munster Championships.
How adding Longford, Antrim, Wicklow and Carlow to those 2 Provinces is going to do anything for anyone beats me.
As for Armaghniac who declared the Conancht Championship a joke - Armagh were turfed out of the AI race by Connacht teams the last 2 years ;)
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on December 11, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Leinster & Ulster preliminary round losers to Connacht and Munster - a very innovative idea from the FRC.
On a given year you might have Louth/Meath, Kildare/Wexford, Laois/Offaly going to Connacht (1 of the 3) or Munster (2 of the 3)
and prelim-Ulster losers, e.g. Cavan/Fermanagh, going to Connacht too.
It would add some spice to Connacht and Munster championships. Kerry/Cork Vs Meath in Munster - bring it on !
Four provincial championships each having 8 teams - good proposal from Eugene McGee and colleagues.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of merit in the proposal, still not sure whether its a good idea or not but its certainly worth debating. I think I agree with them that it is better than forcing particulalr counties to play in another province forever. No surprise that some of the weaker counties in Connacht will instantly object to anything that threatens their cosy cartel, but it won't come down to their votes.
I'd imagine Mayo, Kerry and Cork would be in favour, as it would mean extra competitive games before they get to the final 8 or 12. The big question is whether it is of any interest to all the Leinster and Ulster teams.
Also I think there'd have to be uniformity in how Leinster and Ulster decide who plays in their preliminary rounds. Leinster have it seeded (the 4 prior year semi-finalists cannot play in the prelim round), whereas Ulster is an open draw. Not sure whether open or seeded draw is best, probably seeded which would allow the weaker counties to gain the most benefit from the idea.
I think it's a great idea if it helps to create a level playing field for each province.
We all know it's easier to win Connacht or Munster than it is to win Ulster or Leinster.
Part of that is just the fact that there are more teams of a similar level in Ulster than there are in the other provinces.
I think it's vital to give counties like Monaghan, Roscommon, Kildare etc the chance to win their province but in the current era it is unlikely that they will win the AI.
My main gripe I suppose is with Munster were Cork and Kerry more or less get a bye into the AI 1/4 finals most years. They tend to play a game less than everyone else and often most of their games are in Killarney or Cork.
I think the Ulster council should no longer allow home advantage to any county and play all games in a neutral venue.
In 2014 both Kerry & Cork will be kept apart and automatically go into the semi finals. This more or less decides that they will both make it to the AI 1/4 finals having avoided each other or not played an away match. Of course you could argue that they would probably beat Tipp, Clare or Waterford anyway as they usually do but why are they getting it handed to them on a plate. Less matches for them at away venues means less injuries or suspensions and cost.
Tyrone will play Down in the preliminary round and should they win then be away I think to the Ulster champions in the 1st round. You would never see a preliminary round in Leinster where the Dubs have to go to play Meath in Navan or Kildare in Newbridge.
Can you imagine if Kerry had to play Cork in Cork in May. Neither team would fancy that.
Maybe this has been said before but if such a new format was brought in I would imagine a lot of teams in Ulster would be happy enough to lose their preliminary round game and go for a possibly easier route to the final in Connacht.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2013, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Cold tea on December 11, 2013, 06:53:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on December 10, 2013, 07:35:58 PM
It is called the All-Ireland Championship - put it back the way it was.
Only 4 teams got to compete in the All Ireland Championship "the way it was". Now 32 teams do.
I see Liam O'Neill calling for the proposals raised by the FRC to be debated and they won't be going to Congress 2014.
Is that code for " This is not a runner ladeens"?
And it's nothing to do with the GAA making loads more money?
What the fcuk do YOU want ? Free admission to all games or what?
Anyway they've been called the "Grab All Association" by anti GAA people for decades long before Qualifiers etc came in so like in all walks of life money is a very handy oul thing to have.
Calm yourself down kid, there are teams don't even try to compete after being put out in first round of the championship and their are teams that couldn't compete if you gave them 15 chances. The format was launched as a money spinner for the GAA, at the start it had some following, now it is looked upon as a bit of a joke, if teams want to play loads of games over the summer have a champions league type format (oh right the national league is already in place), otherwise it should be a straight knockout end off.
Quote from: Fuzzman on December 11, 2013, 02:00:10 PM
Maybe this has been said before but if such a new format was brought in I would imagine a lot of teams in Ulster would be happy enough to lose their preliminary round game and go for a possibly easier route to the final in Connacht.
I think we've seen plenty of examples in recent years of Ulster sides being dumped out of the championship by Connacht opposition that it would be no walk in the park for them especially as I presume they would have to play away from home after losing in Ulster.
The Ulsterites in their rush to amend the Connacht and Munster Championships seem to be overlooking the bit where the FRC recommend that the lowest Leinster and Ulster teams in the NFL will play in the Prelim rounds.That means Antrim and more than likely Wicklow/Carlow and Offaly or Longford being annual tramps.
Kerry/Cork/ Mayowestros will hardly be getting much of a competitive test from those ::)
As for Connacht's votes not counting ... Presumably if the CC and the 5 real Connacht Counties refuse to have anything to do with this nonsense....then it won't happen.
Another Ulsterite called the Connacht Championship a "cosy cartel".
It's not our fault the Normans/English only divided Connacht into 5 Counties who unbelievably have to cheek to think that they can keep the Connacht Championship to themselves.
Of course it's only 10 months ago they were telling us that the only County team who could possibly beat Crossmaglen were Donegal ;D
See Mr Prenty has come rushing out to welcome the new proposal from the FRC. I'm sure he has consulted with all the other Connacht counties before proffering an opinion! (Wouldn't be anything to do with adding more games to help pay off McBale park...)
Could have something to do with it I m sure.
Quote from: Fuzzman on December 11, 2013, 12:50:45 PM
We all know it's easier to win Connacht or Munster than it is to win Ulster or Leinster.
Why then do Sligo, Limerick, Leitrim, Clare, Tipperary and Waterford have so few titles?
Wouldn't be in favour of these proposals.
I can see the merit in going with 4 x 8 groups but moving counties should be done on a permanent basis rather than this kind of sh*te.
Quote from: Hound on December 11, 2013, 11:27:29 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on December 11, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Leinster & Ulster preliminary round losers to Connacht and Munster - a very innovative idea from the FRC.
On a given year you might have Louth/Meath, Kildare/Wexford, Laois/Offaly going to Connacht (1 of the 3) or Munster (2 of the 3)
and prelim-Ulster losers, e.g. Cavan/Fermanagh, going to Connacht too.
It would add some spice to Connacht and Munster championships. Kerry/Cork Vs Meath in Munster - bring it on !
Four provincial championships each having 8 teams - good proposal from Eugene McGee and colleagues.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of merit in the proposal, still not sure whether its a good idea or not but its certainly worth debating. I think I agree with them that it is better than forcing particulalr counties to play in another province forever. No surprise that some of the weaker counties in Connacht will instantly object to anything that threatens their cosy cartel, but it won't come down to their votes.
I'd imagine Mayo, Kerry and Cork would be in favour, as it would mean extra competitive games before they get to the final 8 or 12. The big question is whether it is of any interest to all the Leinster and Ulster teams.
Also I think there'd have to be uniformity in how Leinster and Ulster decide who plays in their preliminary rounds. Leinster have it seeded (the 4 prior year semi-finalists cannot play in the prelim round), whereas Ulster is an open draw. Not sure whether open or seeded draw is best, probably seeded which would allow the weaker counties to gain the most benefit from the idea.
Yeah, the only reason against flooding a traditional province with another's refuse is upsetting a cosy cartel. Lol, just lol.
Forget about it. It isn't happening.
Typical GAA fudge. This tinkering with competitions never works out long term.
The basis of all competitions should be fairness.
Each team should have to progress along the same path to progress apart from where there is an unequal number of teams.
The linking of the Provincial Championships to the All Ireland series is the crux of the problem.
IMO the way forward consists of radical moves:
Break the link between the Provincial Championships and the All Ireland series.
Retain the provincials as stand alone competitions.
The All Ireland should be a Champions League style competition, with teams seeded.
Scrap the National leagues.
The benefits are:
Certainty about dates counties are playing on.
Progression path is the same for all.
Clubs will have more available dates and a proper fixtures programme can be implemented that will accomodate the 95% of players who are currently treated like *****.
The GAA cant have it every way. The over emphasis on inter county has to be curtailed to make the Association stronger at grass roots level and to assist the 25 counties who will always suffer under present structures.
One final suggestion.
Eliminate all the frigging junkets that are being engaged on by a squadron of officials, referees and coaches that are being brought on junkets around the world in the hope of spreading the games worldwide.
Get real and sort out the major difficulties at home first.
Section A
Fermanagh
Antrim
Derry
Donegal
Galway
Londain
Sligo
Cork
Tipperary
Limerick
Dublin
Wicklow
Laois
Wexford
Longford
Offaly
Section B
Armagh
Cavan
Monaghan
Tyrone
Down
Roscommon
Leitrim
Mayo
New York
Kerry
Clare
Waterford
Kildare
Westmeath
Louth
Meath
Carlow
Dessie was in the papers yesterday about this. He made a very valid point about the number of interested parties with their own agenda's that would be required to make any change and how difficult it would be, basically saying they would need to look beyond their own interests for the greater good.
But he reformed to type and then defended Intercounty managers looking to postpone club fixtures as recent studies have shown that risk of injury from playing games is greater than training for them. Also said that we shouldn't mess with the championships too much as this is the golden cow and is what grabs the media spotlight and attracts everyone to the game.
Loving the way the proposal is scaring the skitters out of all the Roscommon posters. Fantastic!
Batten down the hatches quick lads!
Quote from: Hound on December 12, 2013, 01:31:18 PM
Loving the way the proposal is scaring the skitters out of all the Roscommon posters. Fantastic!
Nobody in Ros scared of Antrim or Carlow at all, probably the second and third worst county teams I've seen in recent years (after the now defunct Kilkenny)-- just pointing out the stupidity of the proposals.
Prenty is obviously sold on the thoughts of two extra games
so he can give more money to his favourite County Board to reduce their debts. and all those extra €s, as if Antrim or Carlow are going to attract a crowd.
Quote from: drici on December 12, 2013, 09:56:34 AM
Section A
Fermanagh
Antrim
Derry
Donegal
Galway
Londain
Sligo
Cork
Tipperary
Limerick
Dublin
Wicklow
Laois
Wexford
Offaly
Saturday 21st June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1ALosers of: Derry v Donegal Fermanagh v Antrim Londain v Galway Limerick v Tipperary Wicklow v Laois(v Dublin) Longford v Offaly(v Wexford) to be drawn into four matches to take place on that day.
Therefore if Donegal were to lose to Derry they will play one of:
Fermanagh/Antrim Londain/Galway Limerick/Tipperary Wicklow/Laois/Dublin Longford/Offaly/Wexford on that Saturday.
(let us know if you reckon this theory of the draw is up the left)
Although a fan of American football, I'm not sure how they design their season but it appears to me that theirs could be a good solution to our mess. Get rid of the league and play four 8 team 'conferences', north, south, east and west. Each team plays against their conference opponents once (7 games) and against teams from the other provinces, this is where I don't understand how the NFL sort this, thus providing another 3 or 4 games. You can now win your conference thus retaining the provincial system and giving a more realistic goal to all teams. The top two teams in each conference go to quarter finals and the rest is played out on a knockout basis as it is now. Maybe one of our NFL experts could clarify how the Americans fix their program of games?
Quote from: Zulu on December 12, 2013, 04:05:00 PM
Although a fan of American football, I'm not sure how they design their season but it appears to me that theirs could be a good solution to our mess. Get rid of the league and play four 8 team 'conferences', north, south, east and west. Each team plays against their conference opponents once (7 games) and against teams from the other provinces, this is where I don't understand how the NFL sort this, thus providing another 3 or 4 games. You can now win your conference thus retaining the provincial system and giving a more realistic goal to all teams. The top two teams in each conference go to quarter finals and the rest is played out on a knockout basis as it is now. Maybe one of our NFL experts could clarify how the Americans fix their program of games?
Zulu,
Quite simple actually. They play games to a conclusion. Schedule is set in stone. I would love if If Croke Park did this on a trial basisfor one year. The All-ireland Finals could be over by late August, Clubs then have September, October and November to play their knock out phases, May sound overly simplistic but it really is not.
How do they decide which teams you play outside your conference Joe?
These proposals have some merit in my view from the quick reading of them I have had. They're not perfect but represent a move in the right direction, especially in terms of trying to sort out the fixtures calendar. Unfortunately, I think they will fail due to that very attempt. There will be a fear of losing revenue if too many big games are on the same weekends and that will see the proposals knocked on the head.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 12, 2013, 01:31:18 PM
Loving the way the proposal is scaring the skitters out of all the Roscommon posters. Fantastic!
Nobody in Ros scared of Antrim or Carlow at all, probably the second and third worst county teams I've seen in recent years (after the now defunct Kilkenny)-- just pointing out the stupidity of the proposals.
Prenty is obviously sold on the thoughts of two extra games so he can give more money to his favourite County Board to reduce their debts. and all those extra €s, as if Antrim or Carlow are going to attract a crowd.
I assume they'd force the recycling bin teams to play all their games in Connacht? So many of these proposals ignore the reality that the only money spinners for the GAA outside of the AI run-in are provincial rivalries. They
need that money to run the GAA, it's not something that can be gotten from shoving disparate counties around or champions' league formats.
And the other 'option' - any county secretary could tell you provincial championships with no direct tie-in the the championship is akin to swallowing two cyanide pills. An exhibition-level provincial championship that's shoved off to the side that less and less people will care about and championship where you can end up with huge numbers of games between counties whose supporters have little interest in attending the ties. That's probably the worst idea doing the rounds, in all honesty.
You can disregard about 99 out of every 100 proposals out of the bat on the basis of interest alone.
QuoteSo many of these proposals ignore the reality that the only money spinners for the GAA outside of the AI run-in are provincial rivalries.
No they're not, many qualifier games generate crowds the equal or better than provincial games. Are you seriously trying to say that Dublin v Donegal in a new format would attract less than Dublin v Longford/Wexford/Carlow etc. in the provincial championship?
QuoteAnd the other 'option' - any county secretary could tell you provincial championships with no direct tie-in the the championship is akin to swallowing two cyanide pills.
So these great local rivalries and the pride players have for winning their provincial championship is a lie that will be exposed if asked to stand on its own?
Quote from: drici on December 12, 2013, 09:56:34 AM
Section B
Armagh
Cavan
Monaghan
Tyrone
Down
Roscommon
Leitrim
Mayo
New York
Kerry
Clare
Waterford
Kildare
Westmeath
Louth
Meath
Carlow
Saturday 28th June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1BLosers of: Armagh v Cavan Tyrone v Down(v Monaghan) New York v Mayo Roscommon v Leitrim Clare v Waterford Westmeath v Louth(v Kildare) Carlow v Meath to be drawn into four matches to take place on that day.
Therefore losers of Armagh and Cavan will play one of: Tyrone/Down/Monaghan New York/Mayo Roscommon/Leitrim Clare/Waterford Westmeath/Louth/Kildare/Carlow/Meath that Saturday.
(this is to do with joemamas' original thread title - it seems to have toruned(!) into two threads in one)
You're on the new tweaked format for 2014 Drici, but the FRC stuff has gobbled up your thread somewhat. :D
New York don't take part in the Qualifiers and are unlikely (despite my most fervent wishes ;D) to bate Mwr.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
You're on the new tweaked format for 2014 Drici, but the FRC stuff has gobbled up your thread somewhat. :D
New York don't take part in the Qualifiers and are unlikely (despite my most fervent wishes ;D) to bate Mwr.
Aye - that would lead to a Preliminary Round situation because of the uneven number of Counties but just put them in anyway so all could be seen.
Quote from: Zulu on December 12, 2013, 04:17:03 PM
How do they decide which teams you play outside your conference Joe?
They rotate different divisions every season which will use up four games, i.e. all teams in afc west will play all teams in nfc east. In addition, you play six games v teams in your own division home and away, the other games are determined by where you finish in the prior year, strength of schedule the call it.
Getting back to GAA, Other than additional revenues, why don't they try playing games to conclusion even from Q/finals on, then schedule can be set in January, everybody would know where they stand, and club games which seem to be a big bone of contention can also be scheduled accordingly.
Oisin give an interesting few quotes on Gaelic life and said that the championship season has to be condensed and that included playing the club championship in the calender year on the basis that it will free up part of the early season.
Said that the qualifier series is now a joke and that he can see it been the case the players will no longer play for their clubs and be county players only, like the provincal rugby players. Has he stated what everyone is thinking/fearing?
It seems this is largely the case in certain places with players only rolling back to the clubs for championship football. In smaller clubs and weaker counties this may not be the case as much.
Quote from: Bingo on December 13, 2013, 10:13:20 AM
Said that the qualifier series is now a joke and that he can see it been the case the players will no longer play for their clubs and be county players only, like the provincal rugby players. Has he stated what everyone is thinking/fearing?
I wouldn't see this as the end of the world. If it ended the shambles of club scheduling then it would be a good thing. The difference between the GAA and rugby is that it's practically impossible for contracted rugby pros to go back down to their amateur clubs. If a player lost his contract with one of the provinces then he would have to try and eke out a living in England or France. If a player was no longer good enough to play for the county then he goes back to playing for the club. Is this such an appalling vista?
Quote from: deiseach on December 13, 2013, 11:21:43 AM
Quote from: Bingo on December 13, 2013, 10:13:20 AM
Said that the qualifier series is now a joke and that he can see it been the case the players will no longer play for their clubs and be county players only, like the provincal rugby players. Has he stated what everyone is thinking/fearing?
I wouldn't see this as the end of the world. If it ended the shambles of club scheduling then it would be a good thing. The difference between the GAA and rugby is that it's practically impossible for contracted rugby pros to go back down to their amateur clubs. If a player lost his contract with one of the provinces then he would have to try and eke out a living in England or France. If a player was no longer good enough to play for the county then he goes back to playing for the club. Is this such an appalling vista?
Yes!