This has been doing my head in for ages. Older drivers hovering down the motorway at 50 or flying down country lanes at 60. I believe older drivers are as dangerous as young new drivers.
In the pub the other night my mate suggested that everyone be retested every ten years. Do you think this would fair? Could it work? Would the roads be safer?
At the minimum people should do the rules test every 10 years. Why not? If you know your stuff it would only take 20 mins.
If your car gets old enough for an MOT to ensure its roadworthy then of course drivers should be retested to ensure they're roadworthy.
It would take some serious bad drivers off the road which can only be a good thing.
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on August 15, 2013, 10:12:21 AM
If your car gets old enough for an MOT to ensure its roadworthy then of course drivers should be retested to ensure they're roadworthy.
It would take some serious bad drivers off the road which can only be a good thing.
This has nothing to do with it, bad drivers are passing their tests every day.
You have to look at the ratio of deaths on the road and look at their age profile to tell you where the problem, the actual real serious problem lies. I have no issue with someone driving at 50mph on a motorway if that's the speed they feel comfortable at then it is safe for them and other users who are paying attention.
Driving 50mph on a motorway isn't safe and neither is 45mph for R platers.
They wonder why so many young people die from speeding, they aren't taught how to control a car at speeds beyond 45 mph!!
Slow Sunday drivers at what really gets to me
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 10:26:44 AM
Driving 50mph on a motorway isn't safe and neither is 45mph for R platers.
They wonder why so many young people die from speeding, they aren't taught how to control a car at speeds beyond 45 mph!!
Agreed. Also, as trivial as joining a motorway is for an experienced driver, for a person who has just passed their test it is a daunting experience to join a motorway and drive on it without ever having been on it before. Learners are allowed on the westlink which is a nightmare to join in places (Clifton Street heading west or Divis heading east for example) and yet they aren't taught on a motorway
Quote from: NAG1 on August 15, 2013, 10:15:51 AM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on August 15, 2013, 10:12:21 AM
If your car gets old enough for an MOT to ensure its roadworthy then of course drivers should be retested to ensure they're roadworthy.
It would take some serious bad drivers off the road which can only be a good thing.
This has nothing to do with it, bad drivers are passing their tests every day.
You have to look at the ratio of deaths on the road and look at their age profile to tell you where the problem, the actual real serious problem lies. I have no issue with someone driving at 50mph on a motorway if that's the speed they feel comfortable at then it is safe for them and other users who are paying attention.
I'd imagine that there is a U shaped profile with ratio of ages to accidents. Insurance companies charge according. Older people's reactions are often slower and eye sight worse resulting in very conservative and dangerous driving. On a clear motorway a car doing 50 is more dangerous than one doing 80. Such a massive speed distance compared with the surrounding traffic.
Maybe when the Port Tunnel is not being used that much on a Sunday you could arrange for all drivers over 50 to drive in, block one end and gas them? FF's Don't let them on escalators either in case they forget to tie their shoelaces.
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 10:26:44 AM
Driving 50mph on a motorway isn't safe and neither is 45mph for R platers.
They wonder why so many young people die from speeding, they aren't taught how to control a car at speeds beyond 45 mph!!
50mph on a motor way is more than safe, it is up to the other drivers, to adjust their speed, read the road ahead and react accordingly to other drivers. Is that not what good driving is all about?
Not rallying up behind someone obviously going slightly slower than you and getting raging because shock horror they are going slightly slower than you. Adjust your speed read the road ahead and change lanes to over take.
Most young people who die on the road as you said die from speeding! It wouldnt matter how they were taught if they cant judge what speed is too fast for their level of ability. 40mph might still be too fast going round a certain bend in any road.
Quote from: NAG1 on August 15, 2013, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 10:26:44 AM
Driving 50mph on a motorway isn't safe and neither is 45mph for R platers.
They wonder why so many young people die from speeding, they aren't taught how to control a car at speeds beyond 45 mph!!
50mph on a motor way is more than safe, it is up to the other drivers, to adjust their speed, read the road ahead and react accordingly to other drivers. Is that not what good driving is all about?
Not rallying up behind someone obviously going slightly slower than you and getting raging because shock horror they are going slightly slower than you. Adjust your speed read the road ahead and change lanes to over take.
Most young people who die on the road as you said die from speeding! It wouldnt matter how they were taught if they cant judge what speed is too fast for their level of ability. 40mph might still be too fast going round a certain bend in any road.
On Normal free flowing motorway it isn't safe. I understand why people to feeling more comfortable/safer, safe money on fuel. But it is as much a problem as speeding and should be punished according. I know a lad that failed his test donig 30 in a 40 zone.
Back to the main topic, photo card licenses need to be updated every ten years, cars needs MOT. Would it be feasible to redo both tests every time you had to update the license?
If we brought in 10 years test how would the f**kers who their licence in the amnesty in the 70s pass their test, it would be very unfair on them ....
Anyone driving a car (under normal circumstances) that gets overtaken by a HGV (limited to 56mph) is driving dangerously and should not be on a motorway.
To force a lorry to overtake (to get his/her days work done in decent time) obstructs other motorists and causes tailbacks.
If 50 is all you're comfortable doing on a motorway, then you shouldn't be on the motorway. It's no place for deficient drivers.
Ideally older drivers should be retested every 5-10 years.
However I have a couple of bachelor uncles and elderly neighbours who I know in my heart wouldn't have a hope in hell of ever passing the test.
The car is their way of staying connected with the world. They only drive the roads from their house to the town and that is about it. They'd never be near or motorway and would never want to be. It would be a tough blow to them to take them off the road.
Quote from: NAG1 on August 15, 2013, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 10:26:44 AM
Driving 50mph on a motorway isn't safe and neither is 45mph for R platers.
They wonder why so many young people die from speeding, they aren't taught how to control a car at speeds beyond 45 mph!!
50mph on a motor way is more than safe,
Not when they sit in the overtaking lane doing 50.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 15, 2013, 11:32:18 AM
If 50 is all you're comfortable doing on a motorway, then you shouldn't be on the motorway. It's no place for deficient drivers.
Ideally older drivers should be retested every 5-10 years.
However I have a couple of bachelor uncles and elderly neighbours who I know in my heart wouldn't have a hope in hell of ever passing the test.
The car is their way of staying connected with the world. They only drive the roads from their house to the town and that is about it. They'd never be near or motorway and would never want to be. It would be a tough blow to them to take them off the road.
This bit is sad, I have people in a similar position. I suppose its a bit like the kerry drink driving thread from a while back. If a child or dog ran out would they have the reactions or eye sight to deal with it, i doubt it. But it would make the roads safer.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Why is everyone in such a hurry these days, slow down, leave plenty of time for your journey, relax ffs.
Of course, but the slowest driver on the road shouldn't always dictate the speed that everyone else should go.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 15, 2013, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Why is everyone in such a hurry these days, slow down, leave plenty of time for your journey, relax ffs.
Of course, but the slowest driver on the road shouldn't always dictate the speed that everyone else should go.
No but you have to make allowances. If you are planning a journey you have to make allowances for these people, not everyone is in a hurry and I have found that since I have slowed down I have become a much more relaxed and considerate driver.
Walking and running on the roads over the last few years may have helped me look at things differently.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 15, 2013, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Why is everyone in such a hurry these days, slow down, leave plenty of time for your journey, relax ffs.
Of course, but the slowest driver on the road shouldn't always dictate the speed that everyone else should go.
No but you have to make allowances. If you are planning a journey you have to make allowances for these people, not everyone is in a hurry and I have found that since I have slowed down I have become a much more relaxed and considerate driver.
Walking and running on the roads over the last few years may have helped me look at things differently.
I ran the road last night and it also helped me to see things differently - through 9000 buckin midges.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 15, 2013, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Why is everyone in such a hurry these days, slow down, leave plenty of time for your journey, relax ffs.
Of course, but the slowest driver on the road shouldn't always dictate the speed that everyone else should go.
No but you have to make allowances. If you are planning a journey you have to make allowances for these people, not everyone is in a hurry and I have found that since I have slowed down I have become a much more relaxed and considerate driver.
Walking and running on the roads over the last few years may have helped me look at things differently.
There is slowing down and there is a being a dangerous driver. 50 on the motorway, causing trucks to overtake you is dangerous.
How do you feel about compulsory retesting?
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 15, 2013, 12:11:57 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 15, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Why is everyone in such a hurry these days, slow down, leave plenty of time for your journey, relax ffs.
Of course, but the slowest driver on the road shouldn't always dictate the speed that everyone else should go.
No but you have to make allowances. If you are planning a journey you have to make allowances for these people, not everyone is in a hurry and I have found that since I have slowed down I have become a much more relaxed and considerate driver.
Walking and running on the roads over the last few years may have helped me look at things differently.
Same as that. Also having a child in the back of the car has really made me change my driving habits.
I still let the odd roar at someone but I don't try and chase them down and run them off the road anymore....
The persistent misuse of the lanes on the motorway is a huge problem. Driving at 60 on the motorway (50 is too slow imo) shouldn't be an issue if motorists use the outside lane for overtaking and not as a "fast lane". I was coming home from Belfast on the M1 on Monday and the cars on the inside lane were going faster than the outside lane. Something not right there.
That'll be the next money racket for Govt. We'll be paying £40+ every 10 years to be tested for driving. As long as theirs money to gleamed from it, id say they'll be keen.
There is always someone, who describes any initiative as a money making racket. Such tests will cost money to run, I doubt if any net profit would result.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 15, 2013, 01:30:10 PM
The persistent misuse of the lanes on the motorway is a huge problem. Driving at 60 on the motorway (50 is too slow imo) shouldn't be an issue if motorists use the outside lane for overtaking and not as a "fast lane". I was coming home from Belfast on the M1 on Monday and the cars on the inside lane were going faster than the outside lane. Something not right there.
This is a completely different issue, that is about lane usage and awareness of other drivers as opposed to speed.
Speaking from experience one night I was driving to Belfast and near slammed into the back of someone travelling at 50 mph or less. The road was busy enough hence me being in the slow lane as cars doing 80+ passed me. Admittedly I had been distracted for a split second (radio) and any resultant accident would have been solely my fault.. Anyway I was coming round the bend just before the slip off for Sprucefield at no more than 70 mph, went to change cd when all of a sudden the car that was a good 400 yards in front was now right in front of me, as I was being over taken by a few cars in the outside line I couldn't swerve to avoid it so had to jump on the breaks. Luckily there was no one behind me. I feel that had there been an accident the law would say I was at fault which I would accept to a certain degree but would also blame the driver travelling 50mph for being careless.
qub, is there a mandated minimum speed limit on the motorway? Sounds to me, by your own admission, that it was your fault, distracted as you were by changing cd's. What if there had been a dead animal in the road? Aren't you expected to maintain an assured clear distance? No, I think Judge Judy brings down the gavel on this one. Life (in Craigavon) without chance of parole.
There is case for a minimum limit on motorways.
A guy was jailed last week in England for slamming on the brakes when he missed an exit and killing a motor cyclist who ran into him. But that is not comparable with steady slowing travel, this is anti-social but only dangerous if the driver behind is dangerous.
DRIVING TEST EXAM – LEARNER LEVEL FOR GAA BOARDERS
Q1. You are driving along a motorway and you come up to a car driving at 50Mph. Do you (a) take up the "Hamster Position" where you sit up real close to the steering wheel with your knuckles white on the wheel and curse the day that person ever got a licence for the next 100 miles or (b) do you use the width of the motorway and overtake and go on about your business?
Q2. You have this fixation that falls short of shooting pensioners to keep them off the road but you would like to see them do a speed test because if they are travelling at 50mph they are a danger to HGV's. The law in Ireland on motorways is that all HGV's must travel at 80Kmh or 50mph maximum on motorways. Which is the biggest danger (a) the person carefully driving along at around 50mph which is the speed the HGV should be doing in the first place, or (b) the trucks that travel at 100+kmh, almost double their speed limit and outside their braking capability?
Q3. You have just bought your first or second car and along with all the flash wheels it has a CD player. You are in a hurry to nowhere that is a life and death matter and you want to listen to your music and you need to put in a new CD. You do this on a slip road while you are travelling at 75mph (120kmh), the maximum speed for a motorway. There is an accident ahead of you and the ambulance is loading a person onto a stretcher (or there is a slower driver) and you brake hard and avoid a serious crash. Are you (a) Stupid but lucky, or (b) Think you are a hero for avoiding a collision?
Q4. You are coming out of Newry heading Southbound on the M1 and you are driving a car with English registration plates. About 30 miles on you see a sign that says 120kmh and you say to yourself (a) Oh, they have metric signs down here, that means 75mph where I come from so I must obey and drive carefully, or, (b) to hell with them and their metric signs, I will floor it up to 120mph and if am stopped I pretend I didn't know, and I don't really care anyway because I won't pay the fine?
Spot on there Bud. The excessive speeds are rarely worth it anyway. Next time someone flies by you on any main road or motorway, wait until you come to the next town or traffic light and yer man will probably be just 5 or 6 cars ahead of you. Then you get through the same traffic light about 10 secs after he does. That's all he has gained.
Alternatively if you are the speedster, then have you gained only 10 seconds at the expense of your blood pressure?
Do they French plod not give slow drivers the lights to give them a move on??
This debate is interesting as we have moved back and forth between compulsory retesting (aimed at older drivers) to people going too slowly on the motorways. There is a correlation between the two.
Would anyone be apposed to compulsory retesting? And why?
The Biff !! Now there is a name from the past on this board? Same Biff of about 15/20 years ago me wonders?
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 15, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
The Biff !! Now there is a name from the past on this board? Same Biff of about 15/20 years ago me wonders?
Same one Bud. Now I only speak/type when I'm well bothered, or idle. Are you still pitching up in Delaney's? Sure it was never the same after they re-routed Ballycullen Road.
We better not get into reminiscing about the good ol' days before the Nordie Invasion around here. Maybe they're only annoyed with the slow elderly drivers in NI. Down here, we like life in the "Slow Lane" .... in "The Land of Time Enough".
As someone who has driven an average of 50.000 miles a year in my job in a company car. Has a driving licience clear from I started driving,in the early 60`s,I find a lot of the previous comments so stupid. You fools who advocate older drivers are a danger on the roads need to wise up.I can confidently say I would beat any of you in a safe driving competition any day. I would be in England 3 -4 time a year driving on the M1- M6- M25- M18 to name but a few. All you need is common sense on the road,something young drivers do not have at times. By the way I am 69 years old. A road is not a race track,I don`t need these fools in their wee cars with the big exhausts,slowing down and waiting until the car in front has gone far enough in front so they can speed up to hear the exhaust noise only to have to slow down again on the next ramp.
Good post Bud Wiser
Quote from: pullhard on August 15, 2013, 01:04:48 PM
How do you feel about compulsory retesting?
Good idea, but I can't see it happening for various reasons.
I would be more in favour of proper enforcement of the law as it stands. No tax, no insurance etc, crush the car. Tow away illegally parked cars and charge the offending motorist accordingly. I could be here all day, but the laws are there, but we do not have a police force capable of proper enforcement.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 15, 2013, 04:23:09 PM
DRIVING TEST EXAM – LEARNER LEVEL FOR GAA BOARDERS
Q1. You are driving along a motorway and you come up to a car driving at 50Mph. Do you (a) take up the "Hamster Position" where you sit up real close to the steering wheel with your knuckles white on the wheel and curse the day that person ever got a licence for the next 100 miles or (b) do you use the width of the motorway and overtake and go on about your business?
Q2. You have this fixation that falls short of shooting pensioners to keep them off the road but you would like to see them do a speed test because if they are travelling at 50mph they are a danger to HGV's. The law in Ireland on motorways is that all HGV's must travel at 80Kmh or 50mph maximum on motorways. Which is the biggest danger (a) the person carefully driving along at around 50mph which is the speed the HGV should be doing in the first place, or (b) the trucks that travel at 100+kmh, almost double their speed limit and outside their braking capability?
Q3. You have just bought your first or second car and along with all the flash wheels it has a CD player. You are in a hurry to nowhere that is a life and death matter and you want to listen to your music and you need to put in a new CD. You do this on a slip road while you are travelling at 75mph (120kmh), the maximum speed for a motorway. There is an accident ahead of you and the ambulance is loading a person onto a stretcher (or there is a slower driver) and you brake hard and avoid a serious crash. Are you (a) Stupid but lucky, or (b) Think you are a hero for avoiding a collision?
Q4. You are coming out of Newry heading Southbound on the M1 and you are driving a car with English registration plates. About 30 miles on you see a sign that says 120kmh and you say to yourself (a) Oh, they have metric signs down here, that means 75mph where I come from so I must obey and drive carefully, or, (b) to hell with them and their metric signs, I will floor it up to 120mph and if am stopped I pretend I didn't know, and I don't really care anyway because I won't pay the fine?
1. the toruble is that people like this often feel its safer to drive in the middle lane which blocks up the rest of the road. If they motor along at 50 on the inside it causes trucks to overtake them, blocking up the motorway. Prehaps there should be a min. speed limit on motorways for cars?
2. Driving at 50 on the motorway maybe careful but its dangerous. If the drivers reactions or confidence dont allow them to drive any quicker than they should not be on the motorway as they are danger to themselves and others. I wonder what the distance covered between a car doing 50 and one overtaking at 70/80 is?
Points 3 & 4 are different debates. Both just poor driving
Quote from: JUst retired on August 15, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
As someone who has driven an average of 50.000 miles a year in my job in a company car. Has a driving licience clear from I started driving,in the early 60`s,I find a lot of the previous comments so stupid. You fools who advocate older drivers are a danger on the roads need to wise up.I can confidently say I would beat any of you in a safe driving competition any day. I would be in England 3 -4 time a year driving on the M1- M6- M25- M18 to name but a few. All you need is common sense on the road,something young drivers do not have at times. By the way I am 69 years old. A road is not a race track,I don`t need these fools in their wee cars with the big exhausts,slowing down and waiting until the car in front has gone far enough in front so they can speed up to hear the exhaust noise only to have to slow down again on the next ramp.
Good post Bud Wiser
Excellent post.
Although I haven't been driving quite as long as you, I have held a full clean licence since the mid 80's and hope to keep it that way.
Quote from: JUst retired on August 15, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
As someone who has driven an average of 50.000 miles a year in my job in a company car. Has a driving licience clear from I started driving,in the early 60`s,I find a lot of the previous comments so stupid. You fools who advocate older drivers are a danger on the roads need to wise up.I can confidently say I would beat any of you in a safe driving competition any day. I would be in England 3 -4 time a year driving on the M1- M6- M25- M18 to name but a few. All you need is common sense on the road,something young drivers do not have at times. By the way I am 69 years old. A road is not a race track,I don`t need these fools in their wee cars with the big exhausts,slowing down and waiting until the car in front has gone far enough in front so they can speed up to hear the exhaust noise only to have to slow down again on the next ramp.
Good post Bud Wiser
Thats, that then no more debate...
There's a lot of presuming going on in this thread, like do all of these Motorway 50 mph drivers fit into the "older driver" category? Have you checked each one as you pass them? Are you sure some of them are not young lads changing CDs or Radio Stations at the time, or a young lady putting on her make-up, or a young learner driver out with his Dad taking a chance?
I'll make one presumption here that you are free to question .... an older driver doing 50 mph on a Motorway is probably giving 99% (there's always room for improvement) of his attention to the road ahead and all other road users around him. Can you say the same for the younger folk doing 75 mph or more?
No debate away, I just like to watch and read posters make fools of themselves and then prove it by stupid comments like "is there a lower speed limit on the motorway" If they don`t know by now there is no hope for them. :)
The real problem is that everyone thinks that they are an excellent driver.
I would not claim to be an excellent driver just one who is aware of the road conditions around me.I change CD`s I change radio stations, I light cigs, eat chips on occasions when the wife is not in the car. :) I have and probably will continue to do these things but I have learned when to do them.
Alligned with the fact that people dont understand having a license is a privilege, not a right. We are all obliged to take care of our own safety - and the safety of others on the roads. I may be wrong, but most fatal accidents are involving young males, rather than older folks.
I'd rather be frustrated with a slow driver than dead.
Well, JUst, let me explain my stupidity. When I lived in Ireland, I did not have a driver's license, but now as a resident of the US I do. And in the US there is a minimum freeway driving speed. Just didn't know what the NI minimum is or whether indeed there is one. Sorry for lowering the tenor of this debate by being obtuse. I curse my halting intellect every day.
By the way folks, you will not see worse driving than at the various exit junctions on the M50. Be prepared for anything when some drivers find out at the last minute they are in the wrong lane. Have seen cars swerve from the outside lane onto the exit at the last minute without a care in the world ( for them anyway) and visa versa (sic). Seen a car once knock down a sapling tree while getting off an exit to get back on the M50. It is lunacy.
Whatever you do leave yourself some wriggle room to swerve as you will probably need it some day.
50mkph/80kmh on a motorway if on the inside lane is fine imo.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 15, 2013, 04:23:09 PM
DRIVING TEST EXAM – LEARNER LEVEL FOR GAA BOARDERS
Q1. You are driving along a motorway and you come up to a car driving at 50Mph. Do you (a) take up the "Hamster Position" where you sit up real close to the steering wheel with your knuckles white on the wheel and curse the day that person ever got a licence for the next 100 miles or (b) do you use the width of the motorway and overtake and go on about your business?
Q2. You have this fixation that falls short of shooting pensioners to keep them off the road but you would like to see them do a speed test because if they are travelling at 50mph they are a danger to HGV's. The law in Ireland on motorways is that all HGV's must travel at 80Kmh or 50mph maximum on motorways. Which is the biggest danger (a) the person carefully driving along at around 50mph which is the speed the HGV should be doing in the first place, or (b) the trucks that travel at 100+kmh, almost double their speed limit and outside their braking capability?
Q3. You have just bought your first or second car and along with all the flash wheels it has a CD player. You are in a hurry to nowhere that is a life and death matter and you want to listen to your music and you need to put in a new CD. You do this on a slip road while you are travelling at 75mph (120kmh), the maximum speed for a motorway. There is an accident ahead of you and the ambulance is loading a person onto a stretcher (or there is a slower driver) and you brake hard and avoid a serious crash. Are you (a) Stupid but lucky, or (b) Think you are a hero for avoiding a collision?
Q4. You are coming out of Newry heading Southbound on the M1 and you are driving a car with English registration plates. About 30 miles on you see a sign that says 120kmh and you say to yourself (a) Oh, they have metric signs down here, that means 75mph where I come from so I must obey and drive carefully, or, (b) to hell with them and their metric signs, I will floor it up to 120mph and if am stopped I pretend I didn't know, and I don't really care anyway because I won't pay the fine?
My point about HGV's referred to the UK (and the north of Ireland ;)), where their limit is not 50mph but 56mph. (*edit) I'm not sure about Ireland or the rest of Europe.
Unless they are behaving seriously illegally, no HGV should be travelling at any more than 56mph (90kph) as all trucks have mandatory speed limiters fitted which does not physically allow them to travel any faster. This is what the rule makers have decided is inside their 'braking capability'.
The people who make rules of the road always tend to err on the side of safety. They have decided that it is safe for a vehicle weighing 44 tonnes to travel at these speeds on motorways. If this vehicle has to overtake a car because the driver of the car deems that they are not capable of controlling the vehicle at any faster than 50mph then I firmly believe that it the car driver who is the problem.
Currently there is a new law in place whereby truck and coach drivers have to do 35 hours of professional
training every 5 years to obtain a Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC).
I have done part of it already and can honestly say that I have learned a lot of new things that help on a
daily basis. Something similar on a lower scale should come into play for car driving, for safety if nothing else.
PS as Canalman said above, the M50 has to be the worst road in Europe I have been on for dangerous / careless driving......
There is an obvious case for a camera at motorist exits to record maggotry and ticket same. It should be possible to program cameras only to record lane changers etc.
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 15, 2013, 04:14:34 PM
qub, is there a mandated minimum speed limit on the motorway? Sounds to me, by your own admission, that it was your fault, distracted as you were by changing cd's. What if there had been a dead animal in the road? Aren't you expected to maintain an assured clear distance? No, I think Judge Judy brings down the gavel on this one. Life (in Craigavon) without chance of parole.
I defy anyone to drive the length from Enniskillen to Belfast without changing radio, opening sunroof, adjusting a mirror and/or driving position, taking a drink of water or some other minor distraction. As far as I know they aren't offences and it isn't an offence to change a CD while driving either - as opposed to using a mobile phone. That said I would probably have been in the wrong. My query is, what if you had a legitimate reason for being distracted, and ploughed into the back of someone travelling at 50mph, as per my original scenario?
There are good sightlines on motorways. If you are so close to the vehicle in front that a 20mph speed difference is important then you should not then change your CD.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 15, 2013, 06:04:22 PM
There are good sightlines on motorways. If you are so close to the vehicle in front that a 20mph speed difference is important then you should not then change your CD.
Sightlines are more than adequate but sometimes it is difficult to judge when driving at night. In any case, my anecdote was simply to illustrate how driving at dangerously low speeds on a motorway can easily cause an accident.
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 15, 2013, 04:14:34 PM
qub, is there a mandated minimum speed limit on the motorway? Sounds to me, by your own admission, that it was your fault, distracted as you were by changing cd's. What if there had been a dead animal in the road? Aren't you expected to maintain an assured clear distance? No, I think Judge Judy brings down the gavel on this one. Life (in Craigavon) without chance of parole.
I defy anyone to drive the length from Enniskillen to Belfast without changing radio, opening sunroof, adjusting a mirror and/or driving position, taking a drink of water or some other minor distraction. As far as I know they aren't offences and it isn't an offence to change a CD while driving either - as opposed to using a mobile phone. That said I would probably have been in the wrong. My query is, what if you had a legitimate reason for being distracted, and ploughed into the back of someone travelling at 50mph, as per my original scenario?
CD's? People still have those? But yeah picking an album out of 1000 on your phone is nearly as bad as texting.
Quote from: The Biff on August 15, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
Spot on there Bud. The excessive speeds are rarely worth it anyway. Next time someone flies by you on any main road or motorway, wait until you come to the next town or traffic light and yer man will probably be just 5 or 6 cars ahead of you. Then you get through the same traffic light about 10 secs after he does. That's all he has gained.
Alternatively if you are the speedster, then have you gained only 10 seconds at the expense of your blood pressure?
On country roads you are right and that's were most deaths in Ireland happen not motorways. Yet the only places I every see people getting pulled for speed is on the edge of 30 miles limits in towns or on motorways - not the lad doing 70mph on a 14 foot wide road.
Quote from: qubdub on August 15, 2013, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on August 15, 2013, 04:14:34 PM
qub, is there a mandated minimum speed limit on the motorway? Sounds to me, by your own admission, that it was your fault, distracted as you were by changing cd's. What if there had been a dead animal in the road? Aren't you expected to maintain an assured clear distance? No, I think Judge Judy brings down the gavel on this one. Life (in Craigavon) without chance of parole.
I defy anyone to drive the length from Enniskillen to Belfast without changing radio, opening sunroof, adjusting a mirror and/or driving position, taking a drink of water or some other minor distraction. As far as I know they aren't offences and it isn't an offence to change a CD while driving either - as opposed to using a mobile phone. That said I would probably have been in the wrong. My query is, what if you had a legitimate reason for being distracted, and ploughed into the back of someone travelling at 50mph, as per my original scenario?
Yep, all those can be prosecuted under "Driving with undue care and attention" though very unlikely unless you cause/nearly cause an accident.
I agree that we all should be retested every ten years - and it should not only be for those over a certain age. If anything to ensure that people are up to date with the rules of the road.
I do a lot of driving for work and would consider myself an above average driver. I'd fall into the young driver category at 24 and have a full clean driving licence for 7 years now. I don't see why I should have to resit a test in three years time because I would fail it and there goes the job. I wouldn't fail it because I don't know what I'm doing or I make mistakes but because I don't have both hands on the wheel all the time, I don't check my mirrors every three seconds, the odd time the indicators don't get used and yes I might slide in a little close behind someone when changing lanes and I've nearly run out of space. That doesn't make me an unfit driver but it would fail the test (I failed my first driving test for changing lanes thing).
With regards to speed I can say that I don't do it anymore because there is no point and it's not worth the risk. Think I'm right in saying that travelling at 5mph extra for a full hour will save you 5 minutes, but you have to run the risk of getting caught speeding for and hour. (Some of the maths geeks might disagree) What's the point in that? If you cant find five minutes to leave earlier or you can't afford to be five minutes late then you must be in a serious job.
On the motorways I think a minimum speed limit would be a good idea and it could be set the same as the slowest vehicles (HGV's) as this would take away a level of speed difference (50mph people, HGV's, 70mph people and speeders) and isn't that much of a difference between 50 and 56.
One thing I have notice as a proble is roundabouts. There seems to be no standard for how people use them. When I was taught it was the left lane for anything between 6 and 12 on the clock and the right lane for between 12 and 6. Though now there can be three or four lanes annd they usually have writing on them as to where they can take you. People don't seem to get this though and just sit in the right lane until they get to the exit they want and then wing across maybe two lanes of traffic!!
People going into junctions that they can't clear also bugs the hell out of me but I think I've said enough for now!!
Quote from: pullhard on August 15, 2013, 09:43:49 AM
This has been doing my head in for ages. Older drivers hovering down the motorway at 50 or flying down country lanes at 60. I believe older drivers are as dangerous as young new drivers.
In the pub the other night my mate suggested that everyone be retested every ten years. Do you think this would fair? Could it work? Would the roads be safer?
no 26 county driver would pass the test in nordie land. they simply don't know how to use roundabouts. because there is an unwritten rule and they ignore rules that don't directly penalise them when broken.
I did the Driver's Awareness course a few months ago rather than taking 3 points.
Being the kind of person who doesn't like being pontificated to I was, let's just say, cynical before we started.
But it was actually a really good refresher course.
I do about 20k miles a year and I know I'm a good driver (doesn't everyone?) because I concentrate on the road around me. Most of those miles are on the A1/MI from Newry to Belfast, and I know where people turn to idiots and drive accordingly.
- The main M1 entry point at Sprucefield, where a culture has developed of entering the M1 at 5mph, instead of using the slip road to build up speed.
- The Castlewellan Road exit at Banbridge, where everyone enters the A1 in the fast lane.
- The stretch for 2 miles after Dromore going north, where everyone forgets about the change of speed limit drives at 58mph in a 70, in the fast lane.
- The turn for Dromara (at the filling station) where anyone turning right feels the need to drive at 45mph in the fast lane for 2 miles prior.
- The main Sprucefield roundabout, where cars exiting from McDonalds pay no attention to oncoming traffic.
- The new Sprucefield roundabout, where I have on 4 separate occasions been forced into a complete stop on the through road, where people have missed the turn and would prefer to kill people than drive forward to the next right turn (which is 100m away).
- On almost every stretch of the A1 which has an uphill part, you can guarantee that a lorry driving at 60 mph will try to overtake a lorry driving at 59mph.
Anyway, what this course proved to me (albeit from a small sample) is that the average driver doesn't think about their driving. Of the 16 of us on the course, only 2 of us knew the speed limits for each type of road, and more than half didn't understand the "national speed limits apply" sign.
3-4 people were convinced that 55mph was the national speed limit, which means they spend more time watching Cannonball Run than watching our roads.
The nicest thing about the course was a simple piece of advice, which you should pass on. If you let someone out at a junction, it is human nature that they will in turn let someone else out of a junction; one good deed and all that. Traffic moves more freely, tempers don't get frayed, but most importantly, by osmosis they're being tuned to think about the road ahead, and not just about themselves. Everyone can help.
Quote from: The Biff on August 15, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
There's a lot of presuming going on in this thread, like do all of these Motorway 50 mph drivers fit into the "older driver" category? Have you checked each one as you pass them? Are you sure some of them are not young lads changing CDs or Radio Stations at the time, or a young lady putting on her make-up, or a young learner driver out with his Dad taking a chance?
I'll make one presumption here that you are free to question .... an older driver doing 50 mph on a Motorway is probably giving 99% (there's always room for improvement) of his attention to the road ahead and all other road users around him. Can you say the same for the younger folk doing 75 mph or more?
I can't accept that. I have two elderly parents, and both are liabilities on the road, as they'll rubber neck at anything or anyone. Can't accept that older people are more likely to have better attention. From my experience, the opposite is true, to the extent that I try and reduce how much driving they are doing. You'll get a mix of good and bad drivers at all ages. For every young speedester, you'll get a little miss/mr prefect doing everything by the book.
The point that I was trying to make in a ham fisted way. Was that we are all guilty of bad driving at time.
Young people haven't got great experience of driving, but generally would have better reactions and sight than an older person. This would give them an undue sense of confidence resulting in higher speeds, without the experience to back this up.
Older folk have got a wealth of experience but because of older age haven't got the reactions or eye sight of a younger driver. In an attempt to be safer they would tend to drive slower. Which is also dangerous.
When I was suggesting re-testing every 5/10 years as it would everyone a refresher of the standards we expected on the roads. Cars are MOTed, pilots are must attend training, HGV drivers the same. Pilots in charge of 1 tonne metal at 70, nothing.
As drivers we all get in bad habits compulsory training would make our roads safer
I do an awful lot of driving, licence now for 20 years(not clean I might add but nothing in the last 10 years, therefore technically clean :P) I have to say there are some serious whingers about. I generally sit at the speed limit on the motorway/dual carriageway, if I have the kids in the car, I would drop by about 5 mph. There are some really bad drivers out there but the reality is there are not that many. If someone is sitting at 50 to 55mph they should be on the inside lane, if there are lorries overtaking them, let them(trust me a fair few lorries have their speed limiters de-activated so they are well fit to pump it on). Guess what, the lorry will pull back in and then you can overtake them! People must have very little to worry themselves in life the way the get so wound up on the road, chill the f**k out and trust me you'll get there anyway. For what it is worth, if you are late for something and driving hard as a result, you are generally the reason you're late.
Quote from: andoireabu on August 15, 2013, 08:58:49 PM
I do a lot of driving for work and would consider myself an above average driver. I'd fall into the young driver category at 24 and have a full clean driving licence for 7 years now. I don't see why I should have to resit a test in three years time because I would fail it and there goes the job. I wouldn't fail it because I don't know what I'm doing or I make mistakes but because I don't have both hands on the wheel all the time, I don't check my mirrors every three seconds, the odd time the indicators don't get used and yes I might slide in a little close behind someone when changing lanes and I've nearly run out of space. That doesn't make me an unfit driver but it would fail the test (I failed my first driving test for changing lanes thing).
With regards to speed I can say that I don't do it anymore because there is no point and it's not worth the risk. Think I'm right in saying that travelling at 5mph extra for a full hour will save you 5 minutes, but you have to run the risk of getting caught speeding for and hour. (Some of the maths geeks might disagree) What's the point in that? If you cant find five minutes to leave earlier or you can't afford to be five minutes late then you must be in a serious job.
On the motorways I think a minimum speed limit would be a good idea and it could be set the same as the slowest vehicles (HGV's) as this would take away a level of speed difference (50mph people, HGV's, 70mph people and speeders) and isn't that much of a difference between 50 and 56.
One thing I have notice as a proble is roundabouts. There seems to be no standard for how people use them. When I was taught it was the left lane for anything between 6 and 12 on the clock and the right lane for between 12 and 6. Though now there can be three or four lanes annd they usually have writing on them as to where they can take you. People don't seem to get this though and just sit in the right lane until they get to the exit they want and then wing across maybe two lanes of traffic!!
People going into junctions that they can't clear also bugs the hell out of me but I think I've said enough for now!!
There is in the haulage game.
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 07:18:45 AM
Quote from: pullhard on August 15, 2013, 09:43:49 AM
This has been doing my head in for ages. Older drivers hovering down the motorway at 50 or flying down country lanes at 60. I believe older drivers are as dangerous as young new drivers.
In the pub the other night my mate suggested that everyone be retested every ten years. Do you think this would fair? Could it work? Would the roads be safer?
no 26 county driver would pass the test in nordie land. they simply don't know how to use roundabouts. because there is an unwritten rule and they ignore rules that don't directly penalise them when broken.
Modern roundabouts are the creation of the United Kingdom Transport Research Laboratory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)
It is my patriotic duty to ignore their rules and drive the wrong way around the roundabout.
Quote from: Franko on August 16, 2013, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on August 15, 2013, 08:58:49 PM
I do a lot of driving for work and would consider myself an above average driver. I'd fall into the young driver category at 24 and have a full clean driving licence for 7 years now. I don't see why I should have to resit a test in three years time because I would fail it and there goes the job. I wouldn't fail it because I don't know what I'm doing or I make mistakes but because I don't have both hands on the wheel all the time, I don't check my mirrors every three seconds, the odd time the indicators don't get used and yes I might slide in a little close behind someone when changing lanes and I've nearly run out of space. That doesn't make me an unfit driver but it would fail the test (I failed my first driving test for changing lanes thing).
With regards to speed I can say that I don't do it anymore because there is no point and it's not worth the risk. Think I'm right in saying that travelling at 5mph extra for a full hour will save you 5 minutes, but you have to run the risk of getting caught speeding for and hour. (Some of the maths geeks might disagree) What's the point in that? If you cant find five minutes to leave earlier or you can't afford to be five minutes late then you must be in a serious job.
On the motorways I think a minimum speed limit would be a good idea and it could be set the same as the slowest vehicles (HGV's) as this would take away a level of speed difference (50mph people, HGV's, 70mph people and speeders) and isn't that much of a difference between 50 and 56.
One thing I have notice as a proble is roundabouts. There seems to be no standard for how people use them. When I was taught it was the left lane for anything between 6 and 12 on the clock and the right lane for between 12 and 6. Though now there can be three or four lanes annd they usually have writing on them as to where they can take you. People don't seem to get this though and just sit in the right lane until they get to the exit they want and then wing across maybe two lanes of traffic!!
People going into junctions that they can't clear also bugs the hell out of me but I think I've said enough for now!!
There is in the haulage game.
That's why I think the minimum speed should be 56 which would make no difference to hauliers.
many hauliers are resetting their speed limiters to 52mph there is a considerable saving in fuel consumption
Then the ones with the 56mph limiters overtake the ones with the 52mph limiters, with a 4mph difference this takes the length of a parish.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 16, 2013, 10:04:50 PM
Then the ones with the 56mph limiters overtake the ones with the 52mph limiters, with a 4mph difference this takes the length of a parish.
yeah but the slow ones get the diesel bonus :D
Last Friday there was a serious accident on the M1 between Moira and Lurgan, in which an eldery woman was killed.
In what can only be described as selfish mindless behaviour, motorists decided to drive up the hard shoulder in the hope
of skipping the que. Did any of them even stop for a moment and think that that emergency services needed to use the
hard shoulder in order to reach the scene of an accident?
Thankfully someone took matters into their own hands and stopped them in their tracks, and some one took a picture and expressed his feelings........
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12961470_10204618653906709_8563372512006898606_n.jpg?oh=e9378e230dd5ac6f219cb3bd73882a2d&oe=57B0F7C4)
Chris Rowan
8 April ·
Just sat for 2 hours on the M1 between Sprucefield and Moira. Anybody who knows where I live will vouch that it usually takes 15-20 minutes to get home to my house from Sprucefield. 2 hours for 10 miles.
That's all well and good.
BUT THIS GUY. Well, he's a modern-day super hero.
All of the cars who didn't have the patience decided to try drive up the hard shoulder and skip ALL of the traffic while all other cars, myself included, beeped and screamed. This Lorry driver, took matters upon himself and blocked BOTH lanes (hard shoulder included), stopping the cars in the hard shoulder from getting up the motorway any quicker than the rest of us.
I salute you sir, you made a very miserable 2 hours somewhat tolerable.
Hats off to him. I saw people yapping about being delayed and what a disgrace it was. Inconsiderate fucks
So if there was emergency services trying to get through the lorry driver just made things worse...
It wasn't his job to police the knobs driving up the hard shoulder.
Quote from: laoislad on April 11, 2016, 05:29:05 PM
So if there was emergency services trying to get through the lorry driver just made things worse...
It wasn't his job to police the knobs driving up the hard shoulder.
If the lorry driver hadn't of blocked the cars way back from the scene of the accident how much harder do you think it would have been for the emergency vehicles to get through?
There is no reason for anyone to drive on the hard shoulder unless the police directed them to do so.
I salute the lorry driver for stopping these knobs in their selfish tracks.
Quote from: give her dixie on April 11, 2016, 06:21:29 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 11, 2016, 05:29:05 PM
So if there was emergency services trying to get through the lorry driver just made things worse...
It wasn't his job to police the knobs driving up the hard shoulder.
If the lorry driver hadn't of blocked the cars way back from the scene of the accident how much harder do you think it would have been for the emergency vehicles to get through?
There is no reason for anyone to drive on the hard shoulder unless the police directed them to do so.
I salute the lorry driver for stopping these knobs in their selfish tracks.
The road including the hard shoulder was closed completely. At 10:00 the police were directing cars eastbound on the westbound lane and off the m1 using the Moira on-slip.
I like to think those knobs, by jumping around 5m of a queue pur themselves 5 miles and 1500 cars further away from the eventual exit which was behind them.