Not born that way

[The Iceman]

Some interesting reading here on sexual orientation:
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/authors/lawrence-mayer

The Journal is a well-known journal of science, technology and ethics based in Washington D.C.  This article analysed the scientific evidence of LGBT issues published to date in scientific journals.

The report was authored by two eminent scholars. Dr. Lawrence Mayer, a professor of psychiatry and statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University, stated in the preface to the study that he has testified in dozens of federal and state legal proceedings strongly supporting equality and opposing discrimination for the LGBT Community. However, Dr. Mayer stated he supports every sentence in this report without reservation since it is about science and medicine.  He also stated he was alarmed to learn during his review of over 500 scientific articles that the LGBT community bears a disproportionate rate of mental health problems compared to the population as a whole.

The other author is Dr. Paul McHugh, one of the leading psychiatrists in the world. He was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore from 1975 to 2001.  These scientists reviewed hundreds of peer reviewed studies on sexual orientation and gender identity from the biological, psychological and social sciences. 
Their conclusions were as follows:

- The belief that sexual orientation is an innate, biologically fixed human property – that people are "born that way" – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- The belief that gender identity is an innate, fixed human property independent of biological sex – so that a person might be a 'man trapped in a woman's body' or 'a woman trapped in a man's body' – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- Only a minority of children who express gender-atypical thoughts or behaviour will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood. There is no evidence that all such children should be encouraged to become transgender, much less subjected to hormone treatments or surgery.
- Non-heterosexual and transgender people have higher rates of mental health problems (anxiety, depression, suicide), as well as behavioral and social problems (substance abuse, intimate partner violence), than the general population. Discrimination alone does not account for the entire disparity.

[thebigfella]

Some interesting reading here on sexual orientation:
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/authors/lawrence-mayer

The Journal is a well-known journal of science, technology and ethics based in Washington D.C.  This article analysed the scientific evidence of LGBT issues published to date in scientific journals.

The report was authored by two eminent scholars. Dr. Lawrence Mayer, a professor of psychiatry and statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University, stated in the preface to the study that he has testified in dozens of federal and state legal proceedings strongly supporting equality and opposing discrimination for the LGBT Community. However, Dr. Mayer stated he supports every sentence in this report without reservation since it is about science and medicine.  He also stated he was alarmed to learn during his review of over 500 scientific articles that the LGBT community bears a disproportionate rate of mental health problems compared to the population as a whole.

The other author is Dr. Paul McHugh, one of the leading psychiatrists in the world. He was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore from 1975 to 2001.  These scientists reviewed hundreds of peer reviewed studies on sexual orientation and gender identity from the biological, psychological and social sciences. 
Their conclusions were as follows:

- The belief that sexual orientation is an innate, biologically fixed human property – that people are "born that way" – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- The belief that gender identity is an innate, fixed human property independent of biological sex – so that a person might be a 'man trapped in a woman's body' or 'a woman trapped in a man's body' – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- Only a minority of children who express gender-atypical thoughts or behaviour will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood. There is no evidence that all such children should be encouraged to become transgender, much less subjected to hormone treatments or surgery.
- Non-heterosexual and transgender people have higher rates of mental health problems (anxiety, depression, suicide), as well as behavioral and social problems (substance abuse, intimate partner violence), than the general population. Discrimination alone does not account for the entire disparity.

thenewalantis is not a scientific journal, nor is it well known. Check out the co-author of the article, as he's a proper Cnut. Neither of the authors are leaders in their fields.

Cop yourself on ffs 

[seafoid]

We do not understand the brain. So the idea that some scientist can scientifically prove what goes on in people's heads is nonsense.

[Milltown Row2]

We do not understand the brain. So the idea that some scientist can scientifically prove what goes on in people's heads is nonsense.

Doesn't stop people talking/writing about it, that goes for a lot of subjects, wiki it and you're an expert nowadays or if a you like a view from an expert you'll disregard others views on it...

In saying that the above (in my view) is bullshit

[macdanger2]

He's saying that there's no proof that people are born that way but does he provide any proof that people are NOT born that way? If he could, that might lend some weight to his argument but I doubt he's able to do so

I'm not sure I'd describe the new atlantis as a "well known" scientific journal

[Puckoon]

The kind of article and findings one would suspect from a conservative think tank, right?

[gallsman]

The kind of article and findings one would suspect from a conservative think tank, right?

Ethics and Public Policy Center.

Founded in 1976, the group describes itself as "dedicated to applying the Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy."

[Eamonnca1]

Conservative propaganda website publishes conservative propaganda. Details at eleven.

[The Iceman]

I think there is weight on both sides.. I know a couple of gay lads and they would both have had weak or absent fathers, strong mothers or grew up in a house full of women...could be nonsense and have nothing to do with it or could be environmental influence? I remember watching an episode of some show where a female contestant was openly gay and said it was because she was abused by men in her life and chooses to be with women...

Do you think sexuality is a choice? can be fluid with adolescents or adults?

[Rois]

I have two lesbian cousins, one on my father's side and the other on my mother's side. Both from very stable families, heterosexual brothers and sisters, GAA-loving "traditional" Irish families.
No environmental influence that their brothers or sisters weren't also exposed to.

Definite nature, not nurture.

[heganboy]

The Journal is a well-known journal of science, technology and ethics based in Washington D.C.  This article analysed the scientific evidence of LGBT issues published to date in scientific journals.

Ice,
both the first and second sentences in your post are demonstrably factually incorrect.

However the nature vs nurture larger scale debate is definitely still in flux, though it does look increasingly like nature.

HB

[Eamonnca1]

I think there is weight on both sides.. I know a couple of gay lads and they would both have had weak or absent fathers, strong mothers or grew up in a house full of women...could be nonsense and have nothing to do with it or could be environmental influence? I remember watching an episode of some show where a female contestant was openly gay and said it was because she was abused by men in her life and chooses to be with women...

Do you think sexuality is a choice? can be fluid with adolescents or adults?

What is it to you?

[J70]

I think there is weight on both sides.. I know a couple of gay lads and they would both have had weak or absent fathers, strong mothers or grew up in a house full of women...could be nonsense and have nothing to do with it or could be environmental influence? I remember watching an episode of some show where a female contestant was openly gay and said it was because she was abused by men in her life and chooses to be with women...

Do you think sexuality is a choice? can be fluid with adolescents or adults?

I grew up in a house full of women. So what? It doesn't seem to have affect my innate tendency to be attracted to women and repulsed, sexually, by men.

The woman who chose to be with women - is she a lesbian or someone who is bi and doesn't trust men?

Ultimately though, again... so what?

Let's say there is an environmental aspect to it, at least in some cases, what does that mean?

That we can once again outlaw homosexuality? That it will once again be okay for families to ostracize and disapprove of homsexual siblings and children?

I didn't choose to be straight. I just am. I'm sure you're the same. Why do so many people seemed determined to deny the same reality for homosexuals?

[whitey]

I put it down to people getting mad notions

[omochain]

Some interesting reading here on sexual orientation:
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/authors/lawrence-mayer

The Journal is a well-known journal of science, technology and ethics based in Washington D.C.  This article analysed the scientific evidence of LGBT issues published to date in scientific journals.

The report was authored by two eminent scholars. Dr. Lawrence Mayer, a professor of psychiatry and statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University, stated in the preface to the study that he has testified in dozens of federal and state legal proceedings strongly supporting equality and opposing discrimination for the LGBT Community. However, Dr. Mayer stated he supports every sentence in this report without reservation since it is about science and medicine.  He also stated he was alarmed to learn during his review of over 500 scientific articles that the LGBT community bears a disproportionate rate of mental health problems compared to the population as a whole.

The other author is Dr. Paul McHugh, one of the leading psychiatrists in the world. He was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore from 1975 to 2001.  These scientists reviewed hundreds of peer reviewed studies on sexual orientation and gender identity from the biological, psychological and social sciences. 
Their conclusions were as follows:

- The belief that sexual orientation is an innate, biologically fixed human property – that people are "born that way" – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- The belief that gender identity is an innate, fixed human property independent of biological sex – so that a person might be a 'man trapped in a woman's body' or 'a woman trapped in a man's body' – is not supported by scientific evidence.
- Only a minority of children who express gender-atypical thoughts or behaviour will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood. There is no evidence that all such children should be encouraged to become transgender, much less subjected to hormone treatments or surgery.
- Non-heterosexual and transgender people have higher rates of mental health problems (anxiety, depression, suicide), as well as behavioral and social problems (substance abuse, intimate partner violence), than the general population. Discrimination alone does not account for the entire disparity.

Bollocks or should I say Bollix.