Mayo v Donegal - Valentines Night Massacre or the start of new love for JOM?

[Barney]

I think we have exhausted the Derry game - we know our problems and no we won't be seeing Croke Park too often in 09.

Donegal lads - will ye have many players back for this one. I'm sure there will be a rebound from the thrashing in Kerry.

Mayo lads, what changes would you make from the last day.

[Tubberman]

I wouldn't make many changes in personnel - it's the tactics and enthusiasm that need to be addressed more than anything.

The only changes to the starting 15 I would make are possibly:

Full Back line:
McLoughlin in for Vaughan - Hard on Vaughan as the Derry match was his first game, but I'd like to see how McLoughlin gets on.

Half Back line:
Trevor Mort in for Pat Kelly/Gardiner - I'm not sure about this move and it's the least likely to happen, but I thought Trevor looked very good in the half backs in 07 before the injury curse struck again. And he doesn't convince me as a top forward. I'd like to see Cunniffe get another chance at CHB, but I'm not sure which of the lads on the wing should make way. Maybe Gardiner, as two attacking half backs would leave us exposed. 

Midfield:
No change

Half Forwad line:
Alan Dillon at CHF, flanked by BJP and Pat Harte (if he's available, otherwise Andy Moran)

Full Forward line:
Conor Mort in for Andy Moran

I actually made more changes that I thought I would with that team. Regardless of who lines out, the main things I'd be looking for are:
- A more consistent use of the long ball into Barry Moran (unless it is giving no rewards obviously)
- Half backs/midfield/half forwards making themselves available for clearances from the full back line
- Players to play with their heads up looking out for the best option
- The entire team showing a desire to win the match
- A win 

[mannix]

JOM will be under pressure should we lose this one, he team better get hungry in a hurry.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Half Back line:
Trevor Mort in for Pat Kelly/Gardiner - I'm not sure about this move and it's the least likely to happen, but I thought Trevor looked very good in the half backs in 07 before the injury curse struck again. And he doesn't convince me as a top forward.

Where is Trevor Mortimer's best position? Its up there with 'why do we choker in Croker' as one of the great mysteries of Mayo football! He had a great 2004 at full-forward and looked good at wing-back v Derry in 2007 but the feeling is half-forward is the place for him. Now while a lot of his performance the last day can be put down to rustiness, I don't think his future is at centre-half forward because he brings no structure to that position. We need a playmaker there in my opinion. And that's Dillon as far as the current squad goes. Trevor's style is more suited to the wing. That's one switch I would make. Leave Billy Joe unless Pat Harte is around for this game and not for a few more after that as he's meant to be in the US for some league games. If that's the case give him the start while he's round. Else put him in midfield for Parsons.
Conor for Andy inside. Leave the full-back line as is, Vaughan deserves another run out. Maybe switch Kelly with Cunniffe in the half-back line, then we've two attacking wing-backs and a guy who can hopefully hold the fort in the middle.
But selections are far from the substantive issue. There's no point going on about it too much but we need to see a bit of enthusiasm and character in our team. I won't go on any longer because I'll only depress myself

[stephenite]

and no we won't be seeing Croke Park too often in 09.

If I see you in Croke park after we win in September you're getting a full hiding

[moysider]

We need structure in the half forward line. Dillon looks like he s the best option at 11 but I m not convinced. He looks glued to the ground again on the heavy pitches like he did this time last year and we probably wont see him able to cover the ground for months yet. He found it very difficult the last day to make a yard of space. As I ve said before I d like to see Parsons at 11. He s more of a player than a fetcher/grafter and neither himself or McGarrity are well versed in the darker arts at least 1 midfielder needs. Harte should start with McG if he s around. Otherwise Seamas O Sé or maybe Conroy/Kelly.

 If we re playing a sweepling player like BJP the last day then it should be out of the corner forward position and leave the half forward line intact. We were shapeless the last day. Or play both wing forward s in deep roles as outlined below similar to Tyrone. I might bring in McLoughlin just to have a look at him. I d rather see a Chris Rarrett or Boyle than Kelly on wing but I would start Kelly 6 and playing 2 attacking wing backs from Gardiner, Barrett, Cuniffe or Boyle. I think they re much of a muchness. But the team needs coaching and shape. Conor will also have to learn to play with Barry Moran. If management can get him to do that they ll rise alot in my estimation.


                                                                                       David Clarke.


       Liam O Malley.                                                            Ger. Cafferkey                                                   Kevin McLoughlin/Donal Vaughan.


      Peadar Gardiner/Chris Barrett                                         Pat. Kelly                                                          Tom Cuniffe/Colm Boyle.


                                             Ronan McGarrity                                                            Pat Harte/ Kelly/Conroy/O Sé

                                                                                    Trevor Mortimor( Sweeper)

     Billy Joe Padden                                                                                                                                    Alan Dillon

                                                                                     Tom   Parsons

                                                                                 

                                     Conor Mortimor                                                                 Barry Moran


Of course if some of the old guard were to become available I would reconsider so I reserve the right to revise the above. Right now I would love if they went with the above.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Parsons at centre-half forward? Hmmm interesting suggestion and there's merit in it. Can't see it happening though. That half-forward line could work but can't imagine him going for a two man inside line. He'll look for two to play off Barry Moran, Mort and Sweeney for now I'd say.

By the way Chris Barrett is back training after injury or surgery, not sure which. But he's a bit off match standard as far as I know

[stephenite]

That's a good team Moysider - I don't think we can get away with Pat kelly at CHB though

[moysider]

Parsons at centre-half forward? Hmmm interesting suggestion and there's merit in it. Can't see it happening though. That half-forward line could work but can't imagine him going for a two man inside line. He'll look for two to play off Barry Moran, Mort and Sweeney for now I'd say.

By the way Chris Barrett is back training after injury or surgery, not sure which. But he's a bit off match standard as far as I know

I cant see it happening either Sniper but I d love to see it happen. Lets examine this more closely. Our prefered half forward line at the moment appears to be Trevor, Billy Joe and Alan Dillon - not necessarily in that order. All 3 players I have the great respect for. But there are problems. 2 lack pace ( and on the last days showing a bit of fitness - but that will come) and the other lacks a bit of composure and will never be a good 11. Now if you take the big 2  - Kerry and Tyrone( might as well compare ourselves to the best) and look at the pace and power likes of Galvin, O Sullivan, Dooher( maybe not the fastest but.....) and say McMahon bring to the hf line and its obvious we have some way to go. In the case of McGuigan Tyrone have one of the best 11s there has been. He s similar to Blaney, they control a game like a quarter back or a good outhalf. While O Sullivan is a different 11 he is if anything more lethal.
I dont think we can afford the luxury of 3 men inside with the personnel we have in the middle third at the moment. Besides Barry Moran would benefit from more space inside. V Derry because we played 3 forwards inside there were the 2 corner backs onto him in a shot while the corner forwards hung around with one arm as long as the other. If we could isolate Barry and Conor inside we could make hay if Conor bought into the idea. There is a problem. We d have to get support in there as well. But it s something I believe we need to work on. I believe Parsons could be a great source of scores for us in that system as would Harte if he played an attacking role ( Harte also an option for 11 - lets face it if we got the structure sorted we have adaptable personnel) Dillon, BJP and hbs would be good for a few scores as well if this team took shape. I dont think management has anything to moan about. They laid down a serious marker last year about taking this team forward. But there was no obvious improvment in the forward play of the team as a result of the purge. The last day the team was a rabble and will continue to be unless they start putting some shape on it. If I were Johnno I would be praying that Barry Moran stays fit. He s the ace in the pack and its up to him to get a system in place to get the most out of him. Anyway I m sick giving him advice.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I cant see it happening either Sniper but I d love to see it happen. Lets examine this more closely. Our prefered half forward line at the moment appears to be Trevor, Billy Joe and Alan Dillon - not necessarily in that order. All 3 players I have the great respect for. But there are problems. 2 lack pace ( and on the last days showing a bit of fitness - but that will come) and the other lacks a bit of composure and will never be a good 11. Now if you take the big 2  - Kerry and Tyrone( might as well compare ourselves to the best) and look at the pace and power likes of Galvin, O Sullivan, Dooher( maybe not the fastest but.....) and say McMahon bring to the hf line and its obvious we have some way to go. In the case of McGuigan Tyrone have one of the best 11s there has been. He s similar to Blaney, they control a game like a quarter back or a good outhalf. While O Sullivan is a different 11 he is if anything more lethal.
I dont think we can afford the luxury of 3 men inside with the personnel we have in the middle third at the moment. Besides Barry Moran would benefit from more space inside. V Derry because we played 3 forwards inside there were the 2 corner backs onto him in a shot while the corner forwards hung around with one arm as long as the other. If we could isolate Barry and Conor inside we could make hay if Conor bought into the idea. There is a problem. We d have to get support in there as well. But it s something I believe we need to work on. I believe Parsons could be a great source of scores for us in that system as would Harte if he played an attacking role ( Harte also an option for 11 - lets face it if we got the structure sorted we have adaptable personnel) Dillon, BJP and hbs would be good for a few scores as well if this team took shape. I dont think management has anything to moan about. They laid down a serious marker last year about taking this team forward. But there was no obvious improvment in the forward play of the team as a result of the purge. The last day the team was a rabble and will continue to be unless they start putting some shape on it. If I were Johnno I would be praying that Barry Moran stays fit. He s the ace in the pack and its up to him to get a system in place to get the most out of him. Anyway I m sick giving him advice.

I agree with pretty much all you're saying there moysider. Trevor aside we do have a pace problem in the half-forward line. But, and this ties in with your argument, we have a plethora of half-forwards and damn all inside men. So a formation of 4-2 would resources better than the traditional 3-3. I've said that 15 is one position we need to find someone for. Sweeney's audition has been going okay but he has a long way to go to being a championship corner-forward. Playing just Conor and Barry Moran inside and having someone like BJP, Andy Moran or whoever dropping back from 15 to augment the half-forward line would suit tactically and in terms of personnel. And yes, Barry Moran is vital!
We don't have a good forward line at the minute. But we have a good, sniping inside man in Conor, what looks like a serious full-forward in BM and two lads who can be as good half forwards as are around if used correctly - that's Trevor and Dillon. Looking at it that way, there's something to be hopeful of, if we can get the system right . . .

[moysider]

That's a good team Moysider - I don't think we can get away with Pat kelly at CHB though

Take your point about Pat Kelly. First of all must say I think he s been a bit of a scapegoat in the past but would I have him in the team if everybody was available? Well ..... As regards 6 I think our best options are Nallen(still if he wants it), Heaney, Howley and Cafferkey. Worryingly we might not see Howley again for some time and while I m convinced  Cafferkey would be a great 6 he most likely be making a fist if 3. Looking at Cuniffe last day and comparing him to Nallen 95 ... well there s no comparison. Great forward runs but does nt nail down the centre and does nt orchestrate the counter in the manner which we had become accoustomed to. But we were spoiled and did nt appreciate it. There nobody about now with the long spidery arms of Nallen to intercept, disposses and turn defence into attack. Just think if we have a hb line of Peadar, Tom C and Pat Kelly it stands up better with Cuniffe on the wing. Pat plays anchor and the other 2 given their head to attack. Cuniffe playing at 6 usually carrys up the wings anyway. May as well have him out there.

[rosnarun]

trevor will be very lucky to keep a place in the team after last sunday. i'm very much of the opinion that trevor is a full forward line player or nothing. it the only position wher he has looked top class. but that was a few years ago and he must prove he still has it and im beginning to doubt him sad to say.
Crazy talk moving parsons out of midfield i expect him to play there for years  for mayo . he is a huge talent lets not feck about with him.
we should take a look at Mcloughlin and others in ballybofey as what ever about the result it should be our easiest game of the league campaign along with westmeath .  we need to know our best team before we meet dublin kerry galway and tyrone or it could get right ugly.
I'd put omalley to full back with Mcloughlin in the corner and us cafferky as a sub to slowly introduce him to the county scene as he was a bit ovewhelmed against derry and with were lucky the fat lad was only brought on for the last few minutes or another county career could have been over

[RedandGreenSniper]

Ros I meant to respond to your previous post about Cafferkey as well. I think you're being extremely harsh on his performance from Sunday. He wasn't brilliant, I'm not saying that, but he did well. Eoin Bradley (a very fast forward) won about 70/30 of the ball that came their way (and that percentage was higher in the first quarter) but Cafferkey defended him very well, stood him up and ran him down cul-de-sacs. Now when you consider most good inside forwards are dangerous when they get on the ball (and Bradley is dangerous, believe me) then its a fair achievement for Cafferkey to have defended him so well. Why did Bradley win so much ball in front? Well pace is part of the reason but Cafferkey is quick too. The main reason I think was because there was loads of space for the ball to be kicked into because the half-back line was dragged all over the shop and any inside forward should be winning that type of ball. The full-back line were under siege in my opinion with the quality of ball coming in but they defended it very well.
Also it was Liam O'Malley who marked Paddy Bradley so your second point is moot.
On Trevor, I wouldn't worry too much about his performance the last day because he, more than any other Mayo player, needs a few games to get the sharpness back. Its always been an issue for him, but he'll be raring to go in a couple of games.

[rosnarun]

im just saying the guy needs to be protected . he had a woeful game last week. 70/30 is not good enough for a full back . let them have the ball and then tackle ? wasn't that what heaney tried  in 2004 . but im not writing him off by any means as he looks a very good footballer . but at no stage did i think  that i couldn't wait to see him marking Cavanagh donaghy Meehan/joyce  or even conal keaney. the guy is just not ready yet and probably won't this year no matter how much we'd like him to be.
as regards trevor there is no reason based on the last few years of evidence that he should still be a starter for mayo . he has missed far to much time and seems to be lacking the composure and sure footedness that is the minimum expected of a county player. Hard work and Grit can only get you so far.
this is the last match mayo can even do a minimum of experimenting in and they need tp get in shape for the bigger games ahead.
I would be very disappointed if cafferkey trevor, cunniffe or Clarke start in donegal as they are not on the ball at the moment

[IolarCoisCuain]

im just saying the guy needs to be protected

If you're saying the guy needs to be protected then why attack him Rosnarun? I don't get that.

You can come along here and say that you want O'Malley at fullback or that the search for a fullback continues or that Kevin Cahill has never been missed. There's no need to go picking on a young lad starting out, and you don't have to compromise your always stern criticism to do it.