Alternative GAA Season Structure: The McNamee System

[Zulu]

Here we go again. I read an article on this yesterday and was awaiting the usual suspects getting all revved up on here.

It mentioned that there is a groundswell of opinion supporting a re-organisation of the AI championship and that it is a hot topic of discussion among players, supporters and administrators.

Well this topic has never come up in any GAA discussions I have had and I spend a considerable amount of time talking GAA to various people. Other than a few bandwaggoners on here parrotting stuff from a few newspaper columnists and interviews with people who want their name in print this is a non-subject. Don't suppose that will stop multiple thread on here though.

Utter nonsense. I've spoken to many people in the past few weeks and none of them mentioned the refugee crisis so I suppose that's a bandwagon media driven topic too? Most people are focused on their own lives and don't generally discuss in great length the bigger issues in life. That's not to say they are not interested in them or don't have views on them but they don't necessarily discuss them every day.However, there is no doubt most GAA folk are not happy with the current competition structures. The level of dissatisfaction may vary and the alternatives would certainly be many but to suggest most are happy with the current situation is laughable. And of course, the usual tactic of accusing those discussing it of being sheep only highlights the poverty of your argument.

You introduced a strawman argument about refugees. Like WTF!!

Then made a couple of statements without a single shred of evidence to back them up. What evidence is there that 'most GAA folk are not happy with the current situation'??

I never mentioned sheep but if the cap fits....

Again, nonsense. You said this wasn't a hot topic in the GAA because it wasn't raised during your 'many' GAA conversations, I simply showed how that wasn't reflective of anything.

I then made a statement that is reflected by many posts here and on other GAA discussion boards as well as many media pieces so there is clear evidence that most GAA people don't think we have it right. But you carry on thinking we are all being led by a few journalists and media attention seekers.

[sid waddell]

The main problems I have are:
i) It makes the National League even more meaningless than it already is. The "oh but the teams will have seedings to play for" spin is nonsense.
ii) It makes a total mockery of the provincial championships and gives them quasi-O'Byrne Cup status. Obviously they've been "retained" in the proposal purely to increase the chance of it getting passed but if passed, they would likely be abolished within a decade when it becomes obvious they're not being taken seriously - and that's the real plan - to neuter them and abolish them by the back door. The provincial finals, which are marquee occasions, are effectively abolished as we know them and the chance of a provincial title for players is gone.
iii) A load of dead rubber round robin games are introduced. The overall championship is not slimmed down, it's expanded from 60 games to 71 games. The All-Ireland final will supposedly move to the first Sunday in September. Good luck with that.
iv) It takes no cognisance of the fact that there is also a hurling championship.
v) It will give even more of an advantage to stronger panels than is already there.
vi) It does nothing for the club player, drives a deeper wedge between county and club activity and and actually worsens the situation of the club player as it will close the window in April and May when club championship fixtures can take place.

The one good thing about the proposal is that it does away with the notion of a two-tier championship.

[macdanger2]

It's been said on here a few times already but before any new system / structure is proposed, we need to be clear on what the problems are, otherwise we'll have no idea whether or not the changes have fixed the problem or not.

IMO, the main two problems are the fact that a large proportion of the intercounty season is spent on a competition which isn't highly valued i.e. the league. The second and more important problem is that fact that the club season is a mess with large gaps between games and very little certainty for the club players.

[blewuporstuffed]

It's been said on here a few times already but before any new system / structure is proposed, we need to be clear on what the problems are, otherwise we'll have no idea whether or not the changes have fixed the problem or not.

IMO, the main two problems are the fact that a large proportion of the intercounty season is spent on a competition which isn't highly valued i.e. the league. The second and more important problem is that fact that the club season is a mess with large gaps between games and very little certainty for the club players.

That are  pretty much the main issues, any change in format needs to address this first and foremost.

[Rossfan]

118 Senior inter County games are played in Feb/Mar and April in what is in effect a pre Season warm up competition.
Then it takes 5 months to play 60 games in 2 inter linked knock out competitions.
Because the 2 Summer competitions are knock out it's nearly impossible for Co Boards to make any firm club fixtures till after the August weekend as you can't predict when or for how long the County will be playing.
Solutions?
Longer drawn out NFL with Club competitions going on in tandem followed by short sharp intense inter County Championship?
Abolish NFL and play Provincials on a league basis with a K O All Ireland Championship similar to the present Qualifiers?
Leave as is but reserve certain weekends from May to Sept by Rule for Club games?

[Keyser soze]

Here we go again. I read an article on this yesterday and was awaiting the usual suspects getting all revved up on here.

It mentioned that there is a groundswell of opinion supporting a re-organisation of the AI championship and that it is a hot topic of discussion among players, supporters and administrators.

Well this topic has never come up in any GAA discussions I have had and I spend a considerable amount of time talking GAA to various people. Other than a few bandwaggoners on here parrotting stuff from a few newspaper columnists and interviews with people who want their name in print this is a non-subject. Don't suppose that will stop multiple thread on here though.

Utter nonsense. I've spoken to many people in the past few weeks and none of them mentioned the refugee crisis so I suppose that's a bandwagon media driven topic too? Most people are focused on their own lives and don't generally discuss in great length the bigger issues in life. That's not to say they are not interested in them or don't have views on them but they don't necessarily discuss them every day.However, there is no doubt most GAA folk are not happy with the current competition structures. The level of dissatisfaction may vary and the alternatives would certainly be many but to suggest most are happy with the current situation is laughable. And of course, the usual tactic of accusing those discussing it of being sheep only highlights the poverty of your argument.

You introduced a strawman argument about refugees. Like WTF!!

Then made a couple of statements without a single shred of evidence to back them up. What evidence is there that 'most GAA folk are not happy with the current situation'??

I never mentioned sheep but if the cap fits....

Again, nonsense. You said this wasn't a hot topic in the GAA because it wasn't raised during your 'many' GAA conversations, I simply showed how that wasn't reflective of anything.

I then made a statement that is reflected by many posts here and on other GAA discussion boards as well as many media pieces so there is clear evidence that most GAA people don't think we have it right. But you carry on thinking we are all being led by a few journalists and media attention seekers.

Well you can easily prove it's nonsense by getting down to your local club's AGM and put forward a motion to radically change the composition of the AI championship. You and all the other members who are hot for change will easily get this motion carried, as will all the other Zulus in their respective clubs throughout the land. County conventions all over Ireland will unaminously back you given the support there is out there for your foolproof ideas for saving the game. Congress will be a breeze, u will easily carry the day. Nirvana.

Alternatively sit at your keyboard repeatedly typing 'nonsense' when someone shows you for a fool.

[Esmarelda]

Keyser, are you suggesting that the GPA aren't being completely honest when they say that there's an appetite for change amongst inter-county players?

I'd have thought they were a key stakeholder in this discussion.

[Rossfan]

Does "Keyser soze" get out the wrong side of the bed every morning or is it only when certain subjects are mentioned?
Or is he some sort of old school GAA offeeshul who doesn't want anyone who isn't of the same ilk suggesting any changes to anything?

Uachtarán CLCG himself called for Counties to submit any proposals they might come up with for changing the Senior Inter Co Championship so obviously people he talks to must have been talking about the subject.

This is a public forum for people to express their opinions on GAA matters including what they think would be a better way to run the Senior Inter County Championships ( or indeed any other competitions ).

PS - Esmeralda - Mentioning those three letters might just be a step too far. Don't you know they are the Devil Incarnate to some people 

[Keyser soze]

Keyser, are you suggesting that the GPA aren't being completely honest when they say that there's an appetite for change amongst inter-county players?

I'd have thought they were a key stakeholder in this discussion.

I never mentioned the GPA, but since you did they haven't been completely transparent either in that they haven't published the raw data. Asking questions like 'Would you like less training and more games' is only likely to get one response i would imagine.

The GPA is a vested interest group, I've no issue with them but they are only a small part of the Association representing the elite of our game. Certainly their opinion should have be given substantial weight but Dessie Farrell is more interested in revenue generation and marketing opportunities than he is in club footballers, or even county players from lesser lights, getting a fair shout imo. His proposals highlight a number of laudable benefits for everyone in the Association but like a lot of the pro-change supporters on here there is zero consideration given to the fact there might be a downside to their proposals. Imo the GPA have a degree of professionalism as their aim, which is fine by me, but why don't they just come out and say so.

My contention is that the qualifiers have over time created and reaffirmed elites within the game at county level. Aping soccer style Champions league groups will only exacerbate this. Two lower tier counties playing a dead rubber is not likely to provide much interest or promote the game as far as I can see.

Certainly I can see a need for a more structured calendar of fixtures but this need to be a bottom up process not a topdown one in my opinion. Atm the debate is being dictated by the GPA and the media, it is not even a subject at club AGM's and I will challenge anyone on here to prove different.

[Esmarelda]

Keyser, are you suggesting that the GPA aren't being completely honest when they say that there's an appetite for change amongst inter-county players?

I'd have thought they were a key stakeholder in this discussion.

I never mentioned the GPA, but since you did they haven't been completely transparent either in that they haven't published the raw data. Asking questions like 'Would you like less training and more games' is only likely to get one response i would imagine.

The GPA is a vested interest group, I've no issue with them but they are only a small part of the Association representing the elite of our game. Certainly their opinion should have be given substantial weight but Dessie Farrell is more interested in revenue generation and marketing opportunities than he is in club footballers, or even county players from lesser lights, getting a fair shout imo. His proposals highlight a number of laudable benefits for everyone in the Association but like a lot of the pro-change supporters on here there is zero consideration given to the fact there might be a downside to their proposals. Imo the GPA have a degree of professionalism as their aim, which is fine by me, but why don't they just come out and say so.

My contention is that the qualifiers have over time created and reaffirmed elites within the game at county level. Aping soccer style Champions league groups will only exacerbate this. Two lower tier counties playing a dead rubber is not likely to provide much interest or promote the game as far as I can see.

Certainly I can see a need for a more structured calendar of fixtures but this need to be a bottom up process not a topdown one in my opinion. Atm the debate is being dictated by the GPA and the media, it is not even a subject at club AGM's and I will challenge anyone on here to prove different.

I know you didn't mention them. I asked a simple question in the context of you suggesting/implying/saying that there isn't an appetite for change among GAA people.

They haven't been 100% transparent but that doesn't mean they asked questions like the one you've suggested either. Maybe they let the players air their views and took note of it.

They're representing the elite of our game no doubt but it's the competitions that these elite are taking part in that's being discussed so I'd say they're a very big player. If the discussion was how to structure the All-Ireland Club Championships then they'd have little or no part to play.

I agree largely with your last two paragraphs but your opening post yesterday seemed to suggest that this shouldn't be discussed.

[Zulu]

Here we go again. I read an article on this yesterday and was awaiting the usual suspects getting all revved up on here.

It mentioned that there is a groundswell of opinion supporting a re-organisation of the AI championship and that it is a hot topic of discussion among players, supporters and administrators.

Well this topic has never come up in any GAA discussions I have had and I spend a considerable amount of time talking GAA to various people. Other than a few bandwaggoners on here parrotting stuff from a few newspaper columnists and interviews with people who want their name in print this is a non-subject. Don't suppose that will stop multiple thread on here though.

Utter nonsense. I've spoken to many people in the past few weeks and none of them mentioned the refugee crisis so I suppose that's a bandwagon media driven topic too? Most people are focused on their own lives and don't generally discuss in great length the bigger issues in life. That's not to say they are not interested in them or don't have views on them but they don't necessarily discuss them every day.However, there is no doubt most GAA folk are not happy with the current competition structures. The level of dissatisfaction may vary and the alternatives would certainly be many but to suggest most are happy with the current situation is laughable. And of course, the usual tactic of accusing those discussing it of being sheep only highlights the poverty of your argument.

You introduced a strawman argument about refugees. Like WTF!!

Then made a couple of statements without a single shred of evidence to back them up. What evidence is there that 'most GAA folk are not happy with the current situation'??

I never mentioned sheep but if the cap fits....

Again, nonsense. You said this wasn't a hot topic in the GAA because it wasn't raised during your 'many' GAA conversations, I simply showed how that wasn't reflective of anything.

I then made a statement that is reflected by many posts here and on other GAA discussion boards as well as many media pieces so there is clear evidence that most GAA people don't think we have it right. But you carry on thinking we are all being led by a few journalists and media attention seekers.

Well you can easily prove it's nonsense by getting down to your local club's AGM and put forward a motion to radically change the composition of the AI championship. You and all the other members who are hot for change will easily get this motion carried, as will all the other Zulus in their respective clubs throughout the land. County conventions all over Ireland will unaminously back you given the support there is out there for your foolproof ideas for saving the game. Congress will be a breeze, u will easily carry the day. Nirvana.

Alternatively sit at your keyboard repeatedly typing 'nonsense' when someone shows you for a fool.

How did you do that genius?

This is a discussion board where we discuss various issues. Your comment about AGM's and motions is more nonsense from you. Nobody is claiming they have the perfect alternative but there is certainly plenty of people who believe the current one isn't working. You and your mates might be happy but thankfully your not representative of the wider GAA.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

My contention is that the qualifiers have over time created and reaffirmed elites within the game at county level. Aping soccer style Champions league groups will only exacerbate this. Two lower tier counties playing a dead rubber is not likely to provide much interest or promote the game as far as I can see.

Although the three games in the round robin stage of the GPA proposal may be tepid, it is unlikely there will be any dead rubber games with 3 teams qualifying and every position having an advantage. Having the last 24 a straight knock out competition should result in a big increase in intensity.

[Rossfan]

The 8 bottom seeds will be wasting their time. If you go with a League section to the Championship then you have to go with a tiered system.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

The 8 bottom seeds will be wasting their time. If you go with a League section to the Championship then you have to go with a tiered system.

I disagree, of the 3 games the 4th seed would only need to win one to progress and that would be possible against division 2 and 3 teams. A bit of momentum and confidence could be gained too. Then the guaranteed home game against the 1st seeds could lead to spectacles and occasions that would not be too common under the current system.

Given how shoddily the GAA treats Christy Ring/ Nicky Rackard competitions any move to a tiered championship would be a disaster.

[thewobbler]

The 8 bottom seeds will be wasting their time. If you go with a League section to the Championship then you have to go with a tiered system.

I disagree, of the 3 games the 4th seed would only need to win one to progress and that would be possible against division 2 and 3 teams. A bit of momentum and confidence could be gained too. Then the guaranteed home game against the 1st seeds could lead to spectacles and occasions that would not be too common under the current system.

Given how shoddily the GAA treats Christy Ring/ Nicky Rackard competitions any move to a tiered championship would be a disaster.

1. The tier 4 side will be utterly destroyed by the tier 1 side, and given a pretty good shoeing by the second tier side. There are many ways to build momentum, but getting a stark reminder of how much better Division 1 footballers are, just ahead of facing another one of them in the first knockout stage, will never, ever generate momentum.

2. The Ring and Rackard cups are secondary competitions, which means they are of limited appeal to the fans of competing counties, and of zero interest to fans from non-competing counties. Personally I'd love to know what you would do to give such competitions a higher pedestal. Spectators don't want the games. TV and media have no interest. They need smaller grounds and need to be kept apart from tier 1 competition matches in order to have any chance of sparking an interest.