Football Tactics: Mind Boggling?

[thewobbler]

Reading this short article struck a chord with me.

http://livegaelic.com/counties/walsh-analysis-can-mind-boggling

I think we're reaching a stage where the legions of backroom staff demanded by county team managers, are becoming detrimental to player performance. All these people, in trying too hard to justify their involvement (and salaries), seem to be forgetting that Gaelic Football is essentially still a game of 15 man-on-man duels, and the team that wins the most duels will tend to win the game.

Tactics certainly have their place in terms of defensive shape, attacking routes, and set plays. But isn't it all getting a little too complicated?

[DuffleKing]

Reading this short article struck a chord with me.

http://livegaelic.com/counties/walsh-analysis-can-mind-boggling

I think we're reaching a stage where the legions of backroom staff demanded by county team managers, are becoming detrimental to player performance. All these people, in trying too hard to justify their involvement (and salaries), seem to be forgetting that Gaelic Football is essentially still a game of 15 man-on-man duels, and the team that wins the most duels will tend to win the game.

Tactics certainly have their place in terms of defensive shape, attacking routes, and set plays. But isn't it all getting a little too complicated?

Is it?

[screenexile]

Reading this short article struck a chord with me.

http://livegaelic.com/counties/walsh-analysis-can-mind-boggling

I think we're reaching a stage where the legions of backroom staff demanded by county team managers, are becoming detrimental to player performance. All these people, in trying too hard to justify their involvement (and salaries), seem to be forgetting that Gaelic Football is essentially still a game of 15 man-on-man duels, and the team that wins the most duels will tend to win the game.

Tactics certainly have their place in terms of defensive shape, attacking routes, and set plays. But isn't it all getting a little too complicated?

Is it?

Not anymore . . .

[Bingo]

It is losing its 15 v 15 mantle all the more  and is resembling rugby or soccer with two/three banks of defenders from the 45m line back. Very much zonal marking at a lot of levels.

You can't blame managers. RTE panel loves to lambast defence teams and then they laugh/criticise managers/teams like Kildare last weekend for naïve and trying to play 15 v 15.

[haranguerer]

It is losing its 15 v 15 mantle all the more  and is resembling rugby or soccer with two/three banks of defenders from the 45m line back. Very much zonal marking at a lot of levels.

You can't blame managers. RTE panel loves to lambast defence teams and then they laugh/criticise managers/teams like Kildare last weekend for naïve and trying to play 15 v 15.

You can very much blame managers if they're listening to RTE panels!!

[thewobbler]

It's not 15 vs 15 in the form of players lining out in a set grid as with the match programme, and spending the rest of the game protecting/dominating their area of the grid.

But, every player will (almost always) have a primary opponent to either exploit or nullify. A wing-back might find that his directly opposing no.10 is  playing as a fulltime sweeper directly in front of his full-back line. But unless he's given someone else to mark, then that's still his man.

The wing-back might play as a sweeper himself. He might play as another forward. He might do a bit of both. But his performance will still be gauged in overall value against that no.10's performance.  If the sweeper's influence is manifold, then his own influence has to match or more.

What I'm getting at is that in situations like this, managers, video analysts, stats men, scouts, etc, instead of helping the player, could be sending him with too many instructions, too many scenarios to ponder.

[brokencrossbar1]

It's not 15 vs 15 in the form of players lining out in a set grid as with the match programme, and spending the rest of the game protecting/dominating their area of the grid.

But, every player will (almost always) have a primary opponent to either exploit or nullify. A wing-back might find that his directly opposing no.10 is  playing as a fulltime sweeper directly in front of his full-back line. But unless he's given someone else to mark, then that's still his man.

The wing-back might play as a sweeper himself. He might play as another forward. He might do a bit of both. But his performance will still be gauged in overall value against that no.10's performance.  If the sweeper's influence is manifold, then his own influence has to match or more.

What I'm getting at is that in situations like this, managers, video analysts, stats men, scouts, etc, instead of helping the player, could be sending him with too many instructions, too many scenarios to ponder.

Completely agree.  I said it in the World Cup thread and it was relating to stats.  There is far too much focus on the 'circus' around the game these days in terms of tactics, stats, conditioning etc.  The key to winning in my view is to focus over and over  on the basics.  When you can perfect the basics then start looking at the bigger picture but to my mind much of the 'tactical' focus that has developed is because the coaches don't trust the players to win their own battles.  The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

[Dinny Breen]

The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

Yet Dublin have the largest backroom team of them all! Coincidence?

[brokencrossbar1]

The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

Yet Dublin have the largest backroom team of them all! Coincidence?

It makes no odds though that they still do the basics better than anyone else.

[LeoMc]

The background circus, tactics, stats analysis, video analysis, psychologists, dieticians, wrist bands and slogans, etc may give a team that extra 1-2% but most teams need to get the first 80% right first. As BCB1 says those are the basics.
If players cannot do the basics the rest doesn't matter.

[Dinny Breen]

The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

Yet Dublin have the largest backroom team of them all! Coincidence?

It makes no odds though that they still do the basics better than anyone else.

They don't really, if you look at their execution in front of goal it's not particularly clinical, what they do better than any other team is create opportunities on average 45 chances per game. So what you need to be asking is why do they create so many chances, their conditioning is tailored towards speed, their middle 8 are all athletes with great mobility, they have recognized that turnovers are key and they will move the ball at speed once a turnover is complete. Their kick-out strategy is scientific and geared towards retaining possession. These things don't happen through doing the basics properly, it's done towards establishing a game plan and selecting and preparing players to play in that game and even their substitutions are based around continuing the game plan and maintaining the intensity particularly in the last 20 when opposition teams tend to drop off in their own intensity.

Yes Dublin's under-age structure is identifying players but Jim Gavin is coach with a vision, he has built a team and a backroom team to fulfill that vision. He doesn't leave things to chance, every player that plays for Jim Gavin knows his own weaknesses, strengths and his role within the team.

[screenexile]

The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

Yet Dublin have the largest backroom team of them all! Coincidence?

It makes no odds though that they still do the basics better than anyone else.

They don't really, if you look at their execution in front of goal it's not particularly clinical, what they do better than any other team is create opportunities on average 45 chances per game. So what you need to be asking is why do they create so many chances, their conditioning is tailored towards speed, their middle 8 are all athletes with great mobility, they have recognized that turnovers are key and they will move the ball at speed once a turnover is complete. Their kick-out strategy is scientific and geared towards retaining possession. These things don't happen through doing the basics properly, it's done towards establishing a game plan and selecting and preparing players to play in that game and even their substitutions are based around continuing the game plan and maintaining the intensity particularly in the last 20 when opposition teams tend to drop off in their own intensity.

Yes Dublin's under-age structure is identifying players but Jim Gavin is coach with a vision, he has built a team and a backroom team to fulfill that vision. He doesn't leave things to chance, every player that plays for Jim Gavin knows his own weaknesses, strengths and his role within the team.

Indeed! If MD MacAuley was playing the game 10 years ago he wouldn't be a midfielder!

He would be getting dominated in Midfield by Darragh O'Se, Paul McGrane etc. Dublin have developed a system which plays to his strengths of hard running (to win expertly placed ball from kickouts and bursting forward to get involved in attacks) and they've essentially changed a midfielders role now.

[DuffleKing]

It's not 15 vs 15 in the form of players lining out in a set grid as with the match programme, and spending the rest of the game protecting/dominating their area of the grid.

But, every player will (almost always) have a primary opponent to either exploit or nullify. A wing-back might find that his directly opposing no.10 is  playing as a fulltime sweeper directly in front of his full-back line. But unless he's given someone else to mark, then that's still his man.

The wing-back might play as a sweeper himself. He might play as another forward. He might do a bit of both. But his performance will still be gauged in overall value against that no.10's performance.  If the sweeper's influence is manifold, then his own influence has to match or more.

What I'm getting at is that in situations like this, managers, video analysts, stats men, scouts, etc, instead of helping the player, could be sending him with too many instructions, too many scenarios to ponder.

Completely agree.  I said it in the World Cup thread and it was relating to stats.  There is far too much focus on the 'circus' around the game these days in terms of tactics, stats, conditioning etc.  The key to winning in my view is to focus over and over  on the basics.  When you can perfect the basics then start looking at the bigger picture but to my mind much of the 'tactical' focus that has developed is because the coaches don't trust the players to win their own battles.  The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

You may perceive this to be the case or believe that it should be but it is no longer true. A large number of players have defensive responsibilities very different from that

[sheamy]

The best way to win an individual battle is to simplify it down to what the basics are.  First touch, pace of foot and speed of thought, comfort on the ball and and total team work.  That is the way Dublin play the game and that is the best way forward.

Yet Dublin have the largest backroom team of them all! Coincidence?

It makes no odds though that they still do the basics better than anyone else.

They don't really, if you look at their execution in front of goal it's not particularly clinical, what they do better than any other team is create opportunities on average 45 chances per game. So what you need to be asking is why do they create so many chances, their conditioning is tailored towards speed, their middle 8 are all athletes with great mobility, they have recognized that turnovers are key and they will move the ball at speed once a turnover is complete. Their kick-out strategy is scientific and geared towards retaining possession. These things don't happen through doing the basics properly, it's done towards establishing a game plan and selecting and preparing players to play in that game and even their substitutions are based around continuing the game plan and maintaining the intensity particularly in the last 20 when opposition teams tend to drop off in their own intensity.

Yes Dublin's under-age structure is identifying players but Jim Gavin is coach with a vision, he has built a team and a backroom team to fulfill that vision. He doesn't leave things to chance, every player that plays for Jim Gavin knows his own weaknesses, strengths and his role within the team.

This is correct but they do this mainly through accurate kicking of the ball and fast running of forwards presenting options. It's then that the mobility comes into play to provide support. However, the key points are the kicking and intelligent, pacy running i.e. the basics like BC1 said.

Dublin have worked exhaustively at accurate kicking. They move the ball through the middle third faster than any other team which is why they create the chances.

[thewobbler]

Duffle king, true it is my perception.

But when the unheralded and largely unmarked Ciaran McGinley banged in two goals against Down this year, do you think the consensus in the Down camp was a) that's one of those things that happen in this system, or b) player X should have picked him up?

I'm guessing the latter. Gaelic football might eventually become a purely zonal marking for sport. But we aren't there yet.