Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[greenlight]

What would your own solutions be?

NOT
Step 3: I'd like to see every Senior and intermediate league and championship game videoed by the county board, so that we could at least have the impression within the county that the Senior management take some sort of interest in players who are performing well during club games. They should have a dossier of players from each club, and provide players who are performing well with training plans / tips (with a view of being called up in coming seasons)

Highlights should be put on the website, which would generally increase the coverage of the club game.

Every senior and intermediate to be videoed-a lot of volunteers involved in that! Or do they get paid per video. All but a couple of the best club players are in the squad. We,in Derry need to accept it. Gareth mc kindness is a quality player but his disciplinary record looks pathetic and as much as they'll never admit it in public,Ballinderry are fed up with him also. Danny heavron is a mistake,he should be on the panel. No matter about history,he deserves his chance to prove he is worth his place. Emmett mc guckin needs to loose 2 stone to become a county footballer. Other than that,we have what we have,a load of average footballers. Whenever we get the Slaughtneil players back,I can see every 1 of them starting come the Ulster championship. This is the reality

8 matches per week in Senior, 8 in Intermediate. So a maximum of 16 individuals (if all matches played at the same time - unlikely) with a camcorder getting the same financial package as the referees, if it'll keep you happy. [This is the GAA though, after all. You're forgetting that they're all supposed to be volunteers?]

I get it. Derry are shite. I don't think the above will improve the county team overnight; but it might help 3/4/5 years down the line. Isn't that what the 2012-17 strategic plan was trying to address?

[Wildweasel74]

Derry are poor; but mcguckin; mckinless; D hav would improve the team! Injury issues have robbed them of Duffy; Sean Leo; McBride@ and there likely be 3 Slaughtneil men in defence; 1 at midfield and McGuigan up front! The big issue is we currently lacking 2 high scoring forwards and no men bck will improve that!

[Derry Optimist]

As one of the 52 Derry supporters leaving Pearse Park in Longford yesterday( Yes I counted them.There were 50 bunched together beneath the press box and a lovely mature couple from Magherafelt in the wheelchair section!) I tried to console myself about the very poor performance that I  had just witnessed.

True their defensive problems had improved a hundred fold from the previous week but then yesterday too many players were behind the ball with the result that both Peter Hagan and Niall Toner were completely isolated up front and three extra defenders did not appear to know that they should move forward at pace to support the forward line when Derry had the ball. But at least the previous defence frailities were acknowledged. Longford on the other hand being more practised in the modern game counter attacked at pace and  they also had scoring forwards who could score from distance. We simply never threatened the scoreboard even though the goal was as a result of a very fine whole field move.

The reality of Derry's current plight is that even if we had all our missing players back we are at best a mid Division Two team.Minus the Slaughtneil contingent and Niall Loughlin it will be a hard task to gain the six points necessary to guarantee avoiding relegation to Division Four. Undoubtedly the McKaigue brothers,Brendan Rogers,Niall Loughlin and Shane McGuigan with Padraig Cassidy as a back up for midfield would strengthen the team considerably.However with the  exception of the imminent homecoming of Loughlin  it could be too late for Derry's survival when the Slaughtneil players would be available.It is rather ironic that unprecedented club success could have an unintended  negative consequence for the county team.

There is apparently going to be no progress about any one else rejoining or being asked to rejoin the Derry panel.Seemingly  Gareth McKinless would have been on the panel only for having  made arrangements to go to America this summer.He will be unavailable for Ballinderry for this year's Derry championship owing to his forth coming suspensions for his indiscretions in last year's club championship.Anyhow with the exception of the missing and talented Danny Heavron there is currently no other fit player in the county who could make a substantial difference to the team.Others like Ryan Bell and Emmett McGuckin would be good panellists as opposed to game changing starting players.

[seanyb1]

As one of the 52 Derry supporters leaving Pearse Park in Longford yesterday( Yes I counted them.There were 50 bunched together beneath the press box and a lovely mature couple from Magherafelt in the wheelchair section!) I tried to console myself about the very poor performance that I  had just witnessed.

True their defensive problems had improved a hundred fold from the previous week but then yesterday too many players were behind the ball with the result that both Peter Hagan and Niall Toner were completely isolated up front and three extra defenders did not appear to know that they should move forward at pace to support the forward line when Derry had the ball. But at least the previous defence frailities were acknowledged. Longford on the other hand being more practised in the modern game counter attacked at pace and  they also had scoring forwards who could score from distance. We simply never threatened the scoreboard even though the goal was as a result of a very fine whole field move.

The reality of Derry's current plight is that even if we had all our missing players back we are at best a mid Division Two team.Minus the Slaughtneil contingent and Niall Loughlin it will be a hard task to gain the six points necessary to guarantee avoiding relegation to Division Four. Undoubtedly the McKaigue brothers,Brendan Rogers,Niall Loughlin and Shane McGuigan with Padraig Cassidy as a back up for midfield would strengthen the team considerably.However with the  exception of the imminent homecoming of Loughlin  it could be too late for Derry's survival when the Slaughtneil players would be available.It is rather ironic that unprecedented club success could have an unintended  negative consequence for the county team.

There is apparently going to be no progress about any one else rejoining or being asked to rejoin the Derry panel.Seemingly  Gareth McKinless would have been on the panel only for having  made arrangements to go to America this summer.He will be unavailable for Ballinderry for this year's Derry championship owing to his forth coming suspensions for his indiscretions in last year's club championship.Anyhow with the exception of the missing and talented Danny Heavron there is currently no other fit player in the county who could make a substantial difference to the team.Others like Ryan Bell and Emmett McGuckin would be good panellists as opposed to game changing starting players.

Was gareth mckinless not part of the provisional panel at the start of the year but dropped from mcerlains plans as he missed a number of training sessions? correct me if I'm wrong.

[toby47]

I honestly wasn't sold on McErlean being appointed from the beginning. He done a good job with the minors over the past three years but having never managed at Senior club level I knew going straight to a senior county team was going to be a massive jump.

A few of his decisions so far have seemed really strange. He didn't start Callum Browne all last year for the minors, then called him up to the senior panel two months later. I'm not sure how you go from not being in the best 15 u18 players in the county to being in the top 30 players in the whole county within 2 months. Then to put him in the starting team in a McKenna cup game only to realise a couple hours before throw in he is too young really puts the icing on the cake. He has then had to leave the panel as he cannot play.

Danny Heavron and Ryan Bell being left out of the panel is bewildering. Bell kicked 0-3 from play vs Mayo in the qualifier game last year, he's been left off the panel and Derry whole starting team at the weekend kick 2pts from play vs Longford at the weekend. If he isn't deemed Good enough to at least be on the panel then I don't know. And as for Danny Heavron, I'm sure you's are sick listening to me complaining about him being omitted.

On top of this we have started off the year with a 3 point defeat to Westmeath (Just promoted from div4) and a 7 point defeat to Longford (stayed up on points difference last year level on points with Antrim) I am not one of the supporters that thinks Derry can challenge the likes of Tyrone/Donegal for ulster this year or next.  Nor do I think a 7 point defeat by Longford is anywhere near acceptable. We have the ability to be a division 2 team, however at the minute we are a bottom half division team 3 team (for now – possibly sliding to division 4)

Listened to an interview from McErlean this morning from after yesterdays game talking about how good a side Longford are and how he has taken plenty of positives from the game. My mind is starting to be made up.

I was at the Westmeath game last week and wasn't impressed at all. Both with individual performances (bar a couple) and the set-up of the team. I had a B&B booked in Longford for Saturday night, I cancelled it on Wednesday morning after a couple of days debating with myself and travelled half an hour over the road to Creggan instead to watch Lavey minors. Turned out to be a great decision on my behalf. Honestly won't be doing too far to watch Derry this year and have very little hope for the county team this year, it's sad to say but it's also the truth.

It looks like a positive season will be avoiding division 4, avoiding a hammering vs Donegal in championship and getting through a couple of rounds of qualifiers. I will also say this isn't a transition period for Derry, 2-3 of the young players starting the first couple games this season for Derry will turn out to be good county footballers but unfortunately there are another 5-6 players getting game time at the minute who just won't make that standard and will be dropped next season for boys of similar standard, and the same will happen the replacements the season after. Seems to have been the case this past 2-3 years.

[restorepride]

What would your own solutions be?

NOT
Step 3: I'd like to see every Senior and intermediate league and championship game videoed by the county board, so that we could at least have the impression within the county that the Senior management take some sort of interest in players who are performing well during club games. They should have a dossier of players from each club, and provide players who are performing well with training plans / tips (with a view of being called up in coming seasons)

Highlights should be put on the website, which would generally increase the coverage of the club game.

Every senior and intermediate to be videoed-a lot of volunteers involved in that! Or do they get paid per video. All but a couple of the best club players are in the squad. We,in Derry need to accept it. Gareth mc kindness is a quality player but his disciplinary record looks pathetic and as much as they'll never admit it in public,Ballinderry are fed up with him also. Danny heavron is a mistake,he should be on the panel. No matter about history,he deserves his chance to prove he is worth his place. Emmett mc guckin needs to loose 2 stone to become a county footballer. Other than that,we have what we have,a load of average footballers. Whenever we get the Slaughtneil players back,I can see every 1 of them starting come the Ulster championship. This is the reality

You have hit a lot of nails on the head with that post.

[shawshank]

So we go from taking the All Ireland finalist to extra time to bottom of division three. Was there four S'neil men involved in that game, the two Mc Kaigues, Mc Guigan and Rogers. The most inexperienced manager has decided to dismantle that team and go for mostly boys. After watching the Sligo minor game, followed by the Dublin and then the minor final, I had serious concerns regarding this man for senior football, I said to a number of people it was only time before he was caught out. Our full forward line on Sunday was juvenile. Two players at mf who are not mid fielders, but half forwards, I am not going to post anymore about this as it will be the same thing week in and out. I know we are poor at present , we the decision's by the most inexperienced of managements teams is hurting us.

[Estimator]

So we go from taking the All Ireland finalist to extra time to bottom of division three. Was there four S'neil men involved in that game, the two Mc Kaigues, Mc Guigan and Rogers. The most inexperienced manager has decided to dismantle that team and go for mostly boys. After watching the Sligo minor game, followed by the Dublin and then the minor final, I had serious concerns regarding this man for senior football, I said to a number of people it was only time before he was caught out. Our full forward line on Sunday was juvenile. Two players at mf who are not mid fielders, but half forwards, I am not going to post anymore about this as it will be the same thing week in and out. I know we are poor at present , we the decision's by the most inexperienced of managements teams is hurting us.

Taking Mayo to extra time as an individual piece of evidence to beat the current management with is meaningless.

Before that Derry were relegated to Division 3, after a v poor league campaign, they were then hammered by Tyrone in the first round of the Ulster Championship. Derry then beat perennial strugglers Waterford by 7pts, having only been 2pts up at half time.

At the same time, Mayo had been dumped out of the Connacht C'ship by Galway. Who were then beaten by Roscommon in the Connacht Final.

Mayo struggled for long periods against Clare in the next round, were taken to extra time by Cork, taken to a replay by Roscommon, taken to a replay by Kerry.

It also overlooks the fact that the final result of the Derry game shows that Mayo won by 11pts!
So its not like everything was rosy in the garden when Derry took the All-Ireland Finalists to extra time.

Lets have a look at the team that he dismantled from the squad that featured against Mayo.

DERRY: Ben McKinless; Niall Keenan, Brendan Rogers, Karl McKaigue; Ciaran McFaul, Chrissy McKaigue, Carlus McWilliams; Conor McAtamney, Danny Heavron; Ryan Bell, Niall Loughlin, Enda Lynn; Danny Tallon, Michael McEvoy, Benny Heron.

Subs: Emmett McGuckin for McAtamney (35 mins, black card), Mark Lynch for Tallon (46 mins), James Kielt for Bell (58 mins), Shane McGuigan for Lynn (68 mins), Conor Nevin for McEvoy (75 mins), Gavin O'Neill for Loughlin (85 mins), Conor Doherty for Heron (87 mins).

9 of the starting line up are on the panel. (Bold)
3 of the starting line up are currently focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)
3 of the subs that came on are on the panel. (Bold)
1 of the subs that came on is focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)

12 of the starting line up are still on the panel
16 players (inc subs) selected in the current panel

So that leaves Heavron, Bell, Loughlin, McGuckin, Nevin, and O'Neill.

6 players not on the current panel.

Of those lads that played or came on, (but no longer part of the panel), the only one that I think the management erred on is Heavron.  As he was a consistent force in the last couple of years.  The others are capable of some excellence but not regularly in a Derry shirt. 

[toby47]

So we go from taking the All Ireland finalist to extra time to bottom of division three. Was there four S'neil men involved in that game, the two Mc Kaigues, Mc Guigan and Rogers. The most inexperienced manager has decided to dismantle that team and go for mostly boys. After watching the Sligo minor game, followed by the Dublin and then the minor final, I had serious concerns regarding this man for senior football, I said to a number of people it was only time before he was caught out. Our full forward line on Sunday was juvenile. Two players at mf who are not mid fielders, but half forwards, I am not going to post anymore about this as it will be the same thing week in and out. I know we are poor at present , we the decision's by the most inexperienced of managements teams is hurting us.

Taking Mayo to extra time as an individual piece of evidence to beat the current management with is meaningless.

Before that Derry were relegated to Division 3, after a v poor league campaign, they were then hammered by Tyrone in the first round of the Ulster Championship. Derry then beat perennial strugglers Waterford by 7pts, having only been 2pts up at half time.

At the same time, Mayo had been dumped out of the Connacht C'ship by Galway. Who were then beaten by Roscommon in the Connacht Final.

Mayo struggled for long periods against Clare in the next round, were taken to extra time by Cork, taken to a replay by Roscommon, taken to a replay by Kerry.

It also overlooks the fact that the final result of the Derry game shows that Mayo won by 11pts!
So its not like everything was rosy in the garden when Derry took the All-Ireland Finalists to extra time.

Lets have a look at the team that he dismantled from the squad that featured against Mayo.

DERRY: Ben McKinless; Niall Keenan, Brendan Rogers, Karl McKaigue; Ciaran McFaul, Chrissy McKaigue, Carlus McWilliams; Conor McAtamney, Danny Heavron; Ryan Bell, Niall Loughlin, Enda Lynn; Danny Tallon, Michael McEvoy, Benny Heron.

Subs: Emmett McGuckin for McAtamney (35 mins, black card), Mark Lynch for Tallon (46 mins), James Kielt for Bell (58 mins), Shane McGuigan for Lynn (68 mins), Conor Nevin for McEvoy (75 mins), Gavin O'Neill for Loughlin (85 mins), Conor Doherty for Heron (87 mins).

9 of the starting line up are on the panel. (Bold)
3 of the starting line up are currently focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)
3 of the subs that came on are on the panel. (Bold)
1 of the subs that came on is focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)

12 of the starting line up are still on the panel
16 players (inc subs) selected in the current panel

So that leaves Heavron, Bell, Loughlin, McGuckin, Nevin, and O'Neill.

6 players not on the current panel.

Of those lads that played or came on, (but no longer part of the panel), the only one that I think the management erred on is Heavron.  As he was a consistent force in the last couple of years.  The others are capable of some excellence but not regularly in a Derry shirt.

Bell should be on the panel.

[tbrick18]

So we go from taking the All Ireland finalist to extra time to bottom of division three. Was there four S'neil men involved in that game, the two Mc Kaigues, Mc Guigan and Rogers. The most inexperienced manager has decided to dismantle that team and go for mostly boys. After watching the Sligo minor game, followed by the Dublin and then the minor final, I had serious concerns regarding this man for senior football, I said to a number of people it was only time before he was caught out. Our full forward line on Sunday was juvenile. Two players at mf who are not mid fielders, but half forwards, I am not going to post anymore about this as it will be the same thing week in and out. I know we are poor at present , we the decision's by the most inexperienced of managements teams is hurting us.

Taking Mayo to extra time as an individual piece of evidence to beat the current management with is meaningless.

Before that Derry were relegated to Division 3, after a v poor league campaign, they were then hammered by Tyrone in the first round of the Ulster Championship. Derry then beat perennial strugglers Waterford by 7pts, having only been 2pts up at half time.

At the same time, Mayo had been dumped out of the Connacht C'ship by Galway. Who were then beaten by Roscommon in the Connacht Final.

Mayo struggled for long periods against Clare in the next round, were taken to extra time by Cork, taken to a replay by Roscommon, taken to a replay by Kerry.

It also overlooks the fact that the final result of the Derry game shows that Mayo won by 11pts!
So its not like everything was rosy in the garden when Derry took the All-Ireland Finalists to extra time.

Lets have a look at the team that he dismantled from the squad that featured against Mayo.

DERRY: Ben McKinless; Niall Keenan, Brendan Rogers, Karl McKaigue; Ciaran McFaul, Chrissy McKaigue, Carlus McWilliams; Conor McAtamney, Danny Heavron; Ryan Bell, Niall Loughlin, Enda Lynn; Danny Tallon, Michael McEvoy, Benny Heron.

Subs: Emmett McGuckin for McAtamney (35 mins, black card), Mark Lynch for Tallon (46 mins), James Kielt for Bell (58 mins), Shane McGuigan for Lynn (68 mins), Conor Nevin for McEvoy (75 mins), Gavin O'Neill for Loughlin (85 mins), Conor Doherty for Heron (87 mins).

9 of the starting line up are on the panel. (Bold)
3 of the starting line up are currently focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)
3 of the subs that came on are on the panel. (Bold)
1 of the subs that came on is focused on Slaughtneil. (Italics)

12 of the starting line up are still on the panel
16 players (inc subs) selected in the current panel

So that leaves Heavron, Bell, Loughlin, McGuckin, Nevin, and O'Neill.

6 players not on the current panel.

Of those lads that played or came on, (but no longer part of the panel), the only one that I think the management erred on is Heavron.  As he was a consistent force in the last couple of years.  The others are capable of some excellence but not regularly in a Derry shirt.

Good analysis.
IMO, Heavron, Bell, Loughlin and McGuckin are all a big loss, though I know some will disagree on Bell and McGuckin in particular.
I have a question, do the 6 players replacing those 6 missing players make for a stronger panel than last year or a weaker panel? For me, its weaker.
So when we are minus the slaughtneil guys, like last year, AND these 6 players, thats potentially 9-10 players. This not only weakens the starting team, but the subs bench.
There's no easy answer, though I do think keeping those 6 involved would help us overall.

We dont have enough talent to be able to exclude players like that.
So lack of quality players + lack of experience from management = big problems.

[valeman]

With all the talk on here of how poor Derry are currently, I was interested to read the other day that in terms of 'Games Development Grants' in the last decade Derry have received the third highest of all the counties at €1123275, with only Dublin and Cork receiving more (this is money for developing Gaelic game, players etc... only, not for administration, grounds developments, squad expenses etc...).
In 2007 Derry reached an All Ireland quarter final and in 2008 won a National League division 1, in the 10 years since then we have received more money than almost any other county to develop the games within the county and yet here we are ten years later in relegation trouble in division 3 and as far away from an all Ireland in living memory.

I know money does not automatically equate success and in relation to Dublin it is pittance, but it is fair to say that in comparison to most other counties we have been given the funds needed to put in place good people and structures. So would you expect to be seeing some types of fruits of the development at senior level after ten years, or do you think the success of the minors recently is the first signs of this development starting to show?

Just thought it would be an interesting discussion topic away from the current plight of the senior team.

On a side note, Derry's squad expenses spend last year were also relatively high when compared to other counties.

[tbrick18]

With all the talk on here of how poor Derry are currently, I was interested to read the other day that in terms of 'Games Development Grants' in the last decade Derry have received the third highest of all the counties at €1123275, with only Dublin and Cork receiving more (this is money for developing Gaelic game, players etc... only, not for administration, grounds developments, squad expenses etc...).
In 2007 Derry reached an All Ireland quarter final and in 2008 won a National League division 1, in the 10 years since then we have received more money than almost any other county to develop the games within the county and yet here we are ten years later in relegation trouble in division 3 and as far away from an all Ireland in living memory.

I know money does not automatically equate success and in relation to Dublin it is pittance, but it is fair to say that in comparison to most other counties we have been given the funds needed to put in place good people and structures. So would you expect to be seeing some types of fruits of the development at senior level after ten years, or do you think the success of the minors recently is the first signs of this development starting to show?

Just thought it would be an interesting discussion topic away from the current plight of the senior team.

On a side note, Derry's squad expenses spend last year were also relatively high when compared to other counties.

I haven't read that stat on grants, but that is interesting.
Something to bear in mind though, having the money and spending it sensibly don't always go hand in hand.
Also, perhaps prior to these grants we were so vastly underfunded that we had much more ground to make up.
I've no idea what the situation was or is, but if we've had more money than the vast majority of other counties I would like to see some metrics on what has improved in terms of games development during that time.
In the last 10 years, I would think very little has improved. Perhaps the appointment of these full time strength and conditioning coaches and their salaries take up a lot of the cash? If so, is that money that was well spent?

We'd need a full external audit of the structures and governance procedures in place in Derry GAA for the last 10 years.

[Wildweasel74]

What i cant understand is some players have went bck maybe after a year out! Bradley and McGoldrick look off the pace but showed alot of potential 2yrs ago! I thought we should have a mobile target man on the team like Colm McGoldrick! The biggest disappointment is Ryan Bell, outstanding playing midfield 4 yrs ago just out of minors; but as went bck at the rate of knots! I fully expected him to be a great forward for Derry for 10yrs! I dont know why this is! He barely good enough to make the team past 2yrs yet should be first name on the team sheet ability wise but work rate for county level not good

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Too much time in the gym hi. Not enough on the field.  Rife.  Development squads.  Clubs. County.

[Estimator]

Too much time in the gym hi. Not enough on the field.  Rife.  Development squads.  Clubs. County.

On that note, I seen a tweet recently from a club detailing the training schedule for the Under 10's (P5/P6). The schedule covered about 4weeks.
The U-10's were training twice a week - 1 session was Strength and Conditioning (45mins) the other was training matches (90mins).
Is this normal around the clubs in Derry?