Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

Started by Lady GAA GAA, June 10, 2010, 11:36:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Doogie Browser

Another point, has anyone else noticed the new soundbites recently from the DUP?

The 'vogue' one now seems to be 'what about the other 10,000 days of the troubles?' 

Clown

not quite sure why the DUP's response to Saville is to have enquiries into IRA atrocities. The police/courts have already done this and prosecuted people for it, that's wat happens when there is a crime, you don't need to have lawyers investigating years later.
Bloody Sunday was an exception as this was state murder, in cold blood by people who were brought in to keep peace.

If they're going to keep bringing up that we need further enquiries then lets open the whole thing up - the Ballymurphy murders and all the other murders by the British Army in the north would be the first place to start. Then theres the collusion with UDR/RUC and loyalist paramilitaries

the DUP have come across as being pathetic this week, their own prime minister can bring himself to apologise and say it was unjust and wrong and they cant, all they will bleat on about is to say that why were the troops brought in in the first place and the fact that mcguinness may have been carrying a gun.

Doogie Browser

That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

Franko

They truly are a pathetic bunch.  This is really showing a lot of them up as the bitter sectarian bigots they are.

I'd like to hear EG's take on the issue.

Olaf

Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.

Doogie Browser

Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.
I think so too, you only have to contrast the political response with the reaction of the clergy.

Aerlik

Lads, lassies and ladettes, like I've said before, the cornered rats of unionism/loyalism are squeaking.  It's what happens whenever the scum are exposed.  They have nothing to offer and many of us from the occupied 6 have known and experienced this for many years.   

Their reactions are typical shock politics of their sectarian murderous forefathers. 
To find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God!

Franko

Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.
I think so too, you only have to contrast the political response with the reaction of the clergy.

I had hoped this would be the case (and had posted on it a few pages back) but I have since seen the performances of Campbell, Donaldson, Foster etc and I am not so sure.  These are, after all, supposed to be the leaders of mainstream unionism.

If mainstream unionists are as bitter and cynical as these f**kers (their elected representatives after all) then we are a long long way away from resolving the problems here.

Olaf

#293
Quote from: Franko on June 18, 2010, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.
I think so too, you only have to contrast the political response with the reaction of the clergy.

I had hoped this would be the case (and had posted on it a few pages back) but I have since seen the performances of Campbell, Donaldson, Foster etc and I am not so sure.  These are, after all, supposed to be the leaders of mainstream unionism.

If mainstream unionists are as bitter and cynical as these f**kers (their elected representatives after all) then we are a long long way away from resolving the problems here.

I would hazard that most accept that the Paras were uncontrolled that day (both before and after Saville).

Most feel that the Inquiry was a one off inquiry  being the most controversial  and most publicised incident involving forces of their state   and an integral part of the peace process which was voted for. The frustration arises when they see some of those now in govt who could presumably give answers to hundreds of bereaved relatives.

IMO Donaldson was measured in the way he  dealt with the question on Question Time,  Campbell was over the top. Didn't hear Foster.

The comments of the poster prior  to yours fills me with similar dismay.





The Iceman

does anyone have a link ot the question time programme - I can't watch it on the BBC website on this side of the pond. If anyone would be willing to upload to youtube or something similar I'd appreciate it!
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Franko

Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 18, 2010, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.
I think so too, you only have to contrast the political response with the reaction of the clergy.

I had hoped this would be the case (and had posted on it a few pages back) but I have since seen the performances of Campbell, Donaldson, Foster etc and I am not so sure.  These are, after all, supposed to be the leaders of mainstream unionism.

If mainstream unionists are as bitter and cynical as these f**kers (their elected representatives after all) then we are a long long way away from resolving the problems here.

I would hazard that most accept that the Paras were uncontrolled that day (both before and after Saville).

Most feel that the Inquiry was a one off inquiry  being the most controversial  and most publicised incident involving forces of their state   and an integral part of the peace process which was voted for. The frustration arises when they see some of those now in govt who could presumably give answers to hundreds of bereaved relatives.

IMO Donaldson was measured in the way he  dealt with the question on Question Time,  Campbell was over the top. Didn't hear Foster.

The comments of the poster prior  to yours fills me with similar dismay.

I have to disagree.  Why was he repeatedly referring to others that have died in the troubles when asked about this specific instance?  Classic 'whataboutery'. 

And why would he not admit that he was happy to see justice done for these people?

I'll venture that the answer to the second question is because he isn't actually happy at all to see these people get justice and it shakes him to the very core to have to accept this report's findings.

In what way would you describe this as measured?

Olaf

#296
Quote from: Franko on June 18, 2010, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 18, 2010, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Olaf on June 18, 2010, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 18, 2010, 11:16:11 AM
That's what I can't grasp either, a Senior Law Lord and 'HM Government' which they hold so dear quite clearly accept Blood Sunday for what it was, yet they refuse to accept and repsect the decision, pathetic.

IMO the wide  Unionist community are glad that this has been dealt with.
I think so too, you only have to contrast the political response with the reaction of the clergy.

I had hoped this would be the case (and had posted on it a few pages back) but I have since seen the performances of Campbell, Donaldson, Foster etc and I am not so sure.  These are, after all, supposed to be the leaders of mainstream unionism.

If mainstream unionists are as bitter and cynical as these f**kers (their elected representatives after all) then we are a long long way away from resolving the problems here.

I would hazard that most accept that the Paras were uncontrolled that day (both before and after Saville).

Most feel that the Inquiry was a one off inquiry  being the most controversial  and most publicised incident involving forces of their state   and an integral part of the peace process which was voted for. The frustration arises when they see some of those now in govt who could presumably give answers to hundreds of bereaved relatives.

IMO Donaldson was measured in the way he  dealt with the question on Question Time,  Campbell was over the top. Didn't hear Foster.

The comments of the poster prior  to yours fills me with similar dismay.

I have to disagree.  Why was he repeatedly referring to others that have died in the troubles when asked about this specific instance?  Classic 'whataboutery'

And why would he not admit that he was happy to see justice done for these people?

I'll venture that the answer to the second question is because he isn't actually happy at all to see these people get justice and it shakes him to the very core to have to accept this report's findings.

In what way would you describe this as measured?

Because the formal  question posed by the member of the audience was whether in the light of the conclusion of the Saville Inquiry there should be enquiries into other unsolved killings during the troubles. Therefore to answer the question he had to refer to other unsolved killings.

He attempted to deal with answering the question. He was measured in doing so.

He was asked would he rejoice at the conclusion and answered that he would rejoice at the conclusion of the resolution of all unsolved killings during the Troubles IIRC. My paraphrasing of course subject to memory.

Franko

Why do you think that he wouldn't admit that he could rejoice that justice had been done for these thirteen people specifically?

lynchbhoy

Quote from: Aerlik on June 18, 2010, 11:44:24 AM
Lads, lassies and ladettes, like I've said before, the cornered rats of unionism/loyalism are squeaking.  It's what happens whenever the scum are exposed.  They have nothing to offer and many of us from the occupied 6 have known and experienced this for many years.   
Their reactions are typical shock politics of their sectarian murderous forefathers.
I have to agree with you Aerlik.
The whataboutery , moaning, whinging and soundbites and comments out of the unionist/loyalist community must now show people that these 'moderate' friends they have are not what they epouse to actually be !
people have not realised of have forgotten the propaganda-speak and mentality drummed into most unionist/loyalists from the day they are born.
You dont agree?
then why are so many  'moderates' (let alone the usual sectatian bigots like campbell, donaldson etc etc) coming out with comments, phrases etc that are shocking their Irish/catholic/nationalist/working class friends....

to answer donaldson and campbell, the reason why the army were in the six counties was as a measure to try and stop the murderous behaviour of the security forces from escalating to full scale genocide. Dramatic - youd think so , but not given the events that were happening to ordinary innocent (Irish/catholic/nationalist) folk around the six counties from the b specials, ruc and their posse of unionist/loyalist thugs that were gleefully getting stuck into the taigs !

Why the army were in Derry on Bloody sunday...at that stage they had been co-opted onto the side of the police force...so the army were a bigger band of people to use to attack the passive locals.
The IRA had come about to defend their people and areas because of the apartheid regime and the genocidal route it was taking - worsening from the oppression, brutality, beatings and persecution that had existed for mere decades...

there was no need for the army to be near the civil rights march. There was definitely no need for the cold blooded killing of 14 people and 13 more badly injured through being shot. These people were innocent, butchered by the force supposedly sent to the six counties to ward off such sectarian violence!

The apology was correct. The vindication of these 14 peoples (and others in the peaceful march) innocence was correct.

Rather than agree with this and look forward to a combined future the whataboutery and sickening responses from unionist/loyalist leaders and community are a disgrace.
Instead they are whinging about 'what about the people killed by the IRA ' ?
What about it?
Well we could counter - what about the people killed by unionist/loyalist forces!!
What about the people killed by unionist/loyalist/colluding crown force sectarian gangs...

far from being a tribunal for looking into the deaths of unionists/loyalists - the next tribunal would have to be the collusion and role of the brit army, ruc, udr, b specials etc etc  in helping, planning, arming, training and performing killing missions along with unionist/loyalist groups.

Then and only then could we look into the cases of people killed by unionist/loyalist groups or
the people killed by IRA/INLA etc.


The problem of all this was caused by the unionist/loyalist establishmen, its leaders and its people who did not want to stop with the obvious persecution and violent oppression of the nationalist/Irish/catholic peoples in the six counties.

Now will you people shut the fcuk up and accept your starting role in all of this and realise that ths whataboutery will only end up in a draw for you at best.
Allow these other people who were innocent and killed by the state to get their apologiy from the state that is so long in coming and so very deserved.
Try to have some dignity and fair play, though it hasnt been there for decades or even years over the past centuary - so its hardly going to start now.

At last the workd will see that if the Bloody sunday people were actually innocent, then maybe all the other problems we have been highlighting for decades, might also be true too !
the words and actions of the loyalist/unionist spokespeople also should allow the world and people from the south of Ireland see their true colours and what we have had to deal with for this length of time !
I just dont see why so many people are actually surprised ! its in their blood and upbringing, they just try to hide it well - and people believe these claims of 'moderate' !!!
..........

Olaf

Quote from: Franko on June 18, 2010, 02:31:12 PM
Why do you think that he wouldn't admit that he could rejoice that justice had been done for these thirteen people specifically?

I don't know and I don't know his mind but presumably his response as detailed in my last post gives me  some form of answer.