Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

Started by Lady GAA GAA, June 10, 2010, 11:36:14 PM

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red hander

Quote from: gallsman on June 16, 2010, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 16, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Maybe our West Brit friends canvassing for a visit to Ireland by Lizzie will chew over the fact that she awarded mass murderer Derek Wilford an OBE only six months after Bloody Sunday

Who are they, as a matter of interest?

They know who they are

I think Hardy's point is that maybe you don't.

No shit, Sherlock?

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 16, 2010, 04:25:31 PM
Olaf, who has questioned the innocence of those you mention? The equivalent of what happened in bloody sunday is if the state had stated that those who died in Enniskillen had been armed with guns and petrol bombs, and thus deserved their fate. Its clearly not true.

Have you ever heard anyone defend the Enniskillen bomb - on any side of the divide? No, and rightly so - it was indefensible. But put yourself in the postion of the families of those who died if it had been defended, and the perception perpetuated by the authorities was that they deserved it. Thats what happened in Derry.

I could understand the ambiguity and open hositility from unionists if it were an investigation into say the ambush of IRA men. In the troubles, this would equate to the killing of security forces/RUC. But I cant see how this hositility to an investigation into the murder of 13 innocent civilians by state forces can be attributed to anything but sectarianism.

I was not equating the two (Enniskillen and Bloody Sunday) in any respect. See my first post on the thread. It is clear in any event that the deaths arose from different circumstances on the days in question. One awful day began with a group of  people going to church on a Sunday (Remembrance Day) and the other awful day  began with a banned street protest.

I do not feel that you will find open hostility from the majority of the  Unionist community to the fact that a Tribunal was held given that the deaths were as a result of the actions of the agents of the  State and most will be glad that a thorough report painstakingly prepared seems to have established the truth. i would say that I have  not read the Report . It is sad though that other bereaved relatives (on both sides) cannot find the same comfort (on the assumption that the families have gained some comfort from this).
Are you thick or just sectarian?
The only comfort the bloody sunday families have is that it's now been admitted, almost 40 years on, that their loved ones were innocent victims.
No one has ever suggested the victims of Enniskillen, for example, were not innocent. So what are they missing out on that the families of bloody sunday have?
The only people who have a right to feel "what about me" are the families of the other victims of the British Army, RUC and co.

So which is it, thick or sectarian?


Minder the link is working but you're not missing anything, sinn fein blah blah blah, martin mcguinness blah blah blah....
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Myles Na G.

'If you're leveling the paras with the provos then I suppose that's at least somewhere approaching the truth, but any study of loyalist murders will reveal them to be non-political killings which were based on religion.'

A familiar republican mantra, but one which doesn't stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Republicans murdered people because of their (perceived) support for the union and for the NI state. Loyalists murdered Catholics because of the Catholic community's (perceived) support for a united Ireland and the IRA. No real difference. Republicans would rather compare themselves with the British armed forces, rather than be compared with other paramilitary groups. That's why the IRA had 'active service units', while loyalists had 'murder gangs'. That's why the IRA waged an 'armed struggle', while loyalists carried out 'pograms'. Complete bollix, obviously. Republicans were no different from their loyalist counter parts.

The Iceman

when I posted earlier than most Catholics/Nationalists/Republicans will admit what went on during the troubles I did mean that we would all admit there were shootings, killings, bombings, that it all actually happened. Protestants will ask to agree to disagree, or claim that it wasn't as bad as we make out that the truth of the Saville Report is a Republican Truth not what really happened.
I nearly feel like we were all brought up in two different worlds  and maybe we were.  Maybe the majority of them were never exposed to it all or maybe brainwashed into thinking it was normal or maybe just didn't care.....

Either way its messed up.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

stibhan

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 16, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
'If you're leveling the paras with the provos then I suppose that's at least somewhere approaching the truth, but any study of loyalist murders will reveal them to be non-political killings which were based on religion.'

A familiar republican mantra, but one which doesn't stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Republicans murdered people because of their (perceived) support for the union and for the NI state. Loyalists murdered Catholics because of the Catholic community's (perceived) support for a united Ireland and the IRA. No real difference. Republicans would rather compare themselves with the British armed forces, rather than be compared with other paramilitary groups. That's why the IRA had 'active service units', while loyalists had 'murder gangs'. That's why the IRA waged an 'armed struggle', while loyalists carried out 'pograms'. Complete bollix, obviously. Republicans were no different from their loyalist counter parts.

I'm sorry but there is a clear difference. One being an ethno-religious struggle and one being a political one. Equivocating the truth by ignoring the facts doesn't make Republicans, who have a long history of struggle against Britain, the same as Loyalists, who have a long history of anti-Catholic hatred and murder. Bear in mind that you used the word 'Catholic' to signify the type of people Loyalists killed--a qualification which you deemed unnecessary for the IRA.

pintsofguinness

Read through a few of the soldiers statements there, bullets in the head would be too good for them.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Olaf

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 16, 2010, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 16, 2010, 04:25:31 PM
Olaf, who has questioned the innocence of those you mention? The equivalent of what happened in bloody sunday is if the state had stated that those who died in Enniskillen had been armed with guns and petrol bombs, and thus deserved their fate. Its clearly not true.

Have you ever heard anyone defend the Enniskillen bomb - on any side of the divide? No, and rightly so - it was indefensible. But put yourself in the postion of the families of those who died if it had been defended, and the perception perpetuated by the authorities was that they deserved it. Thats what happened in Derry.

I could understand the ambiguity and open hositility from unionists if it were an investigation into say the ambush of IRA men. In the troubles, this would equate to the killing of security forces/RUC. But I cant see how this hositility to an investigation into the murder of 13 innocent civilians by state forces can be attributed to anything but sectarianism.

I was not equating the two (Enniskillen and Bloody Sunday) in any respect. See my first post on the thread. It is clear in any event that the deaths arose from different circumstances on the days in question. One awful day began with a group of  people going to church on a Sunday (Remembrance Day) and the other awful day  began with a banned street protest.

I do not feel that you will find open hostility from the majority of the  Unionist community to the fact that a Tribunal was held given that the deaths were as a result of the actions of the agents of the  State and most will be glad that a thorough report painstakingly prepared seems to have established the truth. i would say that I have  not read the Report . It is sad though that other bereaved relatives (on both sides) cannot find the same comfort (on the assumption that the families have gained some comfort from this).
Are you thick or just sectarian?
The only comfort the bloody sunday families have is that it's now been admitted, almost 40 years on, that their loved ones were innocent victims.
No one has ever suggested the victims of Enniskillen, for example, were not innocent. So what are they missing out on that the families of bloody sunday have?
The only people who have a right to feel "what about me" are the families of the other victims of the British Army, RUC and co.

So which is it, thick or sectarian?




Read the the piece that you have emboldened again.

It must be thick then. ::)

As for the piece that I have emboldened......forget about the rest eh?








pintsofguinness

You have tried to equate incidents like enniskillen with bloody sunday in this thread.

Why do you suggest I'm saying "forget about the rest", I'm not.

Why would someone who had a loved one killed by say the IRA be thinking "what about me" yesterday?
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Hardy

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 16, 2010, 08:41:16 PM
Why would someone who had a loved one killed by say the IRA be thinking "what about me" yesterday?

Even the likes of Martin McGuinness and Mitchel McLaughlin acknowledged the feelings and needs of such people yesterday and commented on the need to address their feelings and concerns, McLaughlin going on to talk about the need for a "Truth Recovery Process" specifically for that purpose.

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Hardy on June 16, 2010, 08:56:10 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 16, 2010, 08:41:16 PM
Why would someone who had a loved one killed by say the IRA be thinking "what about me" yesterday?

Even the likes of Martin McGuinness and Mitchel McLaughlin acknowledged the feelings and needs of such people yesterday and commented on the need to address their feelings and concerns, McLaughlin going on to talk about the need for a "Truth Recovery Process" specifically for that purpose.
I dont understand what they'd think they were missing out on? The families yesterday simply had it admitted that their loved ones were innocent victims. That's something families of the victims of Enniskillen and la mon etc had from day one.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Myles Na G.

Quote from: stibhan on June 16, 2010, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 16, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
'If you're leveling the paras with the provos then I suppose that's at least somewhere approaching the truth, but any study of loyalist murders will reveal them to be non-political killings which were based on religion.'

A familiar republican mantra, but one which doesn't stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Republicans murdered people because of their (perceived) support for the union and for the NI state. Loyalists murdered Catholics because of the Catholic community's (perceived) support for a united Ireland and the IRA. No real difference. Republicans would rather compare themselves with the British armed forces, rather than be compared with other paramilitary groups. That's why the IRA had 'active service units', while loyalists had 'murder gangs'. That's why the IRA waged an 'armed struggle', while loyalists carried out 'pograms'. Complete bollix, obviously. Republicans were no different from their loyalist counter parts.

I'm sorry but there is a clear difference. One being an ethno-religious struggle and one being a political one. Equivocating the truth by ignoring the facts doesn't make Republicans, who have a long history of struggle against Britain, the same as Loyalists, who have a long history of anti-Catholic hatred and murder. Bear in mind that you used the word 'Catholic' to signify the type of people Loyalists killed--a qualification which you deemed unnecessary for the IRA.
So you don't think a hatred for 'the Brits' or the 'huns' or the 'orangies' qualifies as an ethno-religious struggle?

stew

I hope this news brings the families some sort of closure and satisfaction and I admire greatly their fight to see justice done in this case.

I also think Cameron did the right thing and handled the apology with class, respect and genuine remorse for the murder of civilians at the hands of her majestys troops.

I feel sorry for wee willie and Campbell, I cannot imagine living with that sort of hate in my heart for people, it must be horrendous to wake up every day and hate with all your heart 50% of your neighbours.

I had tears in my eyes when I got the news and cried when I once again looked at the victims and I hope those that murdered those poor men and children feel the full force of Justice in a court of law, it will probably  not happen but by God it should happen.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

ziggysego

Quote from: Dún Dún on June 16, 2010, 04:49:24 PM
Here's Willie Frazer giving his opinion. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/fairmedia1

Just seeing this now. The man is living in his own planet if he can't see the truth now. But sure, what do you expect from the Crossmaglen stalker?
Testing Accessibility

Maguire01

Frazer's youtube page is classic. He's so far removed from reality.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 16, 2010, 10:22:08 PM
Frazer's youtube page is classic. He's so far removed from reality.

Bejaysus, he scares the hell outa me!
It seems he really believes what he says.
How much support does he and his ilk  really have amongst the Unionist community?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi