Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

Started by Lady GAA GAA, June 10, 2010, 11:36:14 PM

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stibhan

Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 16, 2010, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.

Notwithstanding who or what organisation caused the deaths an understandable reaction of a bereaved relative watching yesterday's events would be  .."and what about me"? Would it not?

The Inquiry seems to have hopefully started the  door closing on Bloody Sunday but the thorny issue of dealing with the past (most if not all of it) still needs to be addressed or it seems to me an unexpected   hierarchical structure will develop . This needs to be managed carefully by our government.

I make no distinction between those atrocities carried out by Republicans and those carried out by Loyalists.

I referred to Republican atrocities because the poster stated that republicans are more open about what went on during the Troubles.

If you're leveling the paras with the provos then I suppose that's at least somewhere approaching the truth, but any study of loyalist murders will reveal them to be non-political killings which were based on religion. In terms of whether or not 'republicans are more open' during the troubles, they at least claimed responsibility for the vast majority of those attacks. Given that it was an imprisonable offence to  be a member of the IRA, and that countless young men were put in prison as a result (whether right or wrongly), there was a course of justice which they could point to. Bloody Sunday was filmed, recorded and photographed by countless people. It is one of the single incidents in the Western World of a state killing its putative citizens and then going against all evidence to exonerate and commend the murderers of innocents in what is undeniably a cover-up. This difference between it and the countless other tragedies in the troubles is hardly something which needs to be explained, but as usual the familiar suspects come out of the woodworks to deflect criticism.

haranguerer

Olaf, who has questioned the innocence of those you mention? The equivalent of what happened in bloody sunday is if the state had stated that those who died in Enniskillen had been armed with guns and petrol bombs, and thus deserved their fate. Its clearly not true.

Have you ever heard anyone defend the Enniskillen bomb - on any side of the divide? No, and rightly so - it was indefensible. But put yourself in the postion of the families of those who died if it had been defended, and the perception perpetuated by the authorities was that they deserved it. Thats what happened in Derry.

I could understand the ambiguity and open hositility from unionists if it were an investigation into say the ambush of IRA men. In the troubles, this would equate to the killing of security forces/RUC. But I cant see how this hositility to an investigation into the murder of 13 innocent civilians by state forces can be attributed to anything but sectarianism.

Dún Dún


stew

Quote from: Dún Dún on June 16, 2010, 04:49:24 PM
Here's Willie Frazer giving his opinion. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/fairmedia1

Wow. That clampett is absolutely delusional, inarticulate and a serious embarassment to unionism/loyalism.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

Aerlik

#184
I see McGuinness changed his name recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq6HG0HaTxg

and still won. ;)

In all seriousness, has anyone a link to Campbell's rant on BBC 1 or was it the one with Jon Snow on C4 that he was out of order on?
To find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God!


Aerlik

thanks Dun Dun, but I can't view it over here.  Ah well, I can but imagine.
To find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God!

red hander

Maybe our West Brit friends canvassing for a visit to Ireland by Lizzie will chew over the fact that she awarded mass murderer Derek Wilford an OBE only six months after Bloody Sunday ... and don't gimme any oul shite that it's not her who decides who gets these pathetic baubles - she's also commander in chief of the British Army, don't forget

Hardy

Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Maybe our West Brit friends canvassing for a visit to Ireland by Lizzie will chew over the fact that she awarded mass murderer Derek Wilford an OBE only six months after Bloody Sunday

Who are they, as a matter of interest?

gallsman

Willie Frazer is an insignificant little toad. Nobody takes him seriously in the slightest. He'll rant on and on until the day he joins his colluding, murdering father in the grave and still nobody will give a shit about him.

red hander

Quote from: Hardy on June 16, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Maybe our West Brit friends canvassing for a visit to Ireland by Lizzie will chew over the fact that she awarded mass murderer Derek Wilford an OBE only six months after Bloody Sunday

Who are they, as a matter of interest?

They know who they are

gallsman

Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 16, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Maybe our West Brit friends canvassing for a visit to Ireland by Lizzie will chew over the fact that she awarded mass murderer Derek Wilford an OBE only six months after Bloody Sunday

Who are they, as a matter of interest?

They know who they are

I think Hardy's point is that maybe you don't.

Franko

Quote from: Dún Dún on June 16, 2010, 04:49:24 PM
Here's Willie Frazer giving his opinion. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/fairmedia1

The wee piece of shit embarrasses himself and all of unionism each and every time he gets in front of a microphone.

Minder

Quote from: Franko on June 16, 2010, 06:04:31 PM
Quote from: Dún Dún on June 16, 2010, 04:49:24 PM
Here's Willie Frazer giving his opinion. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/fairmedia1

The wee piece of shit embarrasses himself and all of unionism each and every time he gets in front of a microphone.

I can't het that link to work on my Iphone. Is it still working?
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

Olaf

Quote from: haranguerer on June 16, 2010, 04:25:31 PM
Olaf, who has questioned the innocence of those you mention? The equivalent of what happened in bloody sunday is if the state had stated that those who died in Enniskillen had been armed with guns and petrol bombs, and thus deserved their fate. Its clearly not true.

Have you ever heard anyone defend the Enniskillen bomb - on any side of the divide? No, and rightly so - it was indefensible. But put yourself in the postion of the families of those who died if it had been defended, and the perception perpetuated by the authorities was that they deserved it. Thats what happened in Derry.

I could understand the ambiguity and open hositility from unionists if it were an investigation into say the ambush of IRA men. In the troubles, this would equate to the killing of security forces/RUC. But I cant see how this hositility to an investigation into the murder of 13 innocent civilians by state forces can be attributed to anything but sectarianism.

I was not equating the two (Enniskillen and Bloody Sunday) in any respect. See my first post on the thread. It is clear in any event that the deaths arose from different circumstances on the days in question. One awful day began with a group of  people going to church on a Sunday (Remembrance Day) and the other awful day  began with a banned street protest.

I do not feel that you will find open hostility from the majority of the  Unionist community to the fact that a Tribunal was held given that the deaths were as a result of the actions of the agents of the  State and most will be glad that a thorough report painstakingly prepared seems to have established the truth. i would say that I have  not read the Report . It is sad though that other bereaved relatives (on both sides) cannot find the same comfort (on the assumption that the families have gained some comfort from this).