Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

Started by Lady GAA GAA, June 10, 2010, 11:36:14 PM

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Gaoth Dobhair Abu

Quote from: gallsman on June 16, 2010, 10:23:10 AM
Gregory Campbell is a hateful little **** who you'd love to smack if he passed you in the street. Eammon McCann deserves credit for openly calling him a "sectarian disgrace" on the BBC last night.

Though Michael Mansfield and the Presbyterian minister, David Latimer (sp?) spoke very well, with Latimer not rying to pursue any agenda and openly hoping that Campbell's view was out of tune with most unionists.


Was great to Mansfield come out directly and say that the reason Bloody Sunday differs from other atrocities throughout the troubles was that it was perpetrated by agents of the state, wearing a uniform. It was murder.

Carruthers interviewed McGuinness earlier in the day about the Thompson claims and Saville's rejection of the claim that the Paras were sent in that day to "teach them a lesson." McGuinness reserved the right to respectfully disagree. Considering their complete unsuitability for what was meant to be a policing action, as well as the events up at Magilligan Strand the week before, it's hard not to share his viewpoint.


Agree with the above, the Pres. Minister showed an honesty and compassion missing from every unionist politician who has spoken about this recently. He also said that he was shocked and dismayed at Campbells words.
Fantastic day for the families and the people of Derry, the relief and joy on their faces was great to see, at least now the world knows what we've known for 38 years - the people that were murdered and injured on that fateful day were INNOCENT.
Tbc....

stibhan

Can anyone explain the Gerard Donaghy nail bombs claim, and how they came to the conclusion that he had them but didn't use them? I know Paddy Ward claimed to be head of the Fianna that day but I'm not sure how it sits in with everything else given that his evidence was largely discredited by most. I personally disagree with the accusation that he had nail bombs on his person and think there's been a cover-up of a cover-up... I am just nit-picking though, I suppose.

haranguerer

I dont really see why we should have any gratitude to unionists and the protestant churches for reacting 'well'. Its the only way to act. The fact that campbell and his ilk reacted badly just shows what scum they are, they shouldnt be the yardstick of unionist decency.


Doogie Browser

Quote from: haranguerer on June 16, 2010, 01:43:56 PM
I dont really see why we should have any gratitude to unionists and the protestant churches for reacting 'well'. Its the only way to act. The fact that campbell and his ilk reacted badly just shows what scum they are, they shouldnt be the yardstick of unionist decency.
Well it is not representative of the way Unionist politicians reacted, for that I think we should be if not thankful at least appreciative.

Rois

Quote from: stibhan on June 16, 2010, 01:43:04 PM
Can anyone explain the Gerard Donaghy nail bombs claim, and how they came to the conclusion that he had them but didn't use them? I know Paddy Ward claimed to be head of the Fianna that day but I'm not sure how it sits in with everything else given that his evidence was largely discredited by most. I personally disagree with the accusation that he had nail bombs on his person and think there's been a cover-up of a cover-up... I am just nit-picking though, I suppose.

I scanned through that part of the report myself, and it doesn't sit well with me either. 

ziggysego

Quote from: Rois on June 16, 2010, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: stibhan on June 16, 2010, 01:43:04 PM
Can anyone explain the Gerard Donaghy nail bombs claim, and how they came to the conclusion that he had them but didn't use them? I know Paddy Ward claimed to be head of the Fianna that day but I'm not sure how it sits in with everything else given that his evidence was largely discredited by most. I personally disagree with the accusation that he had nail bombs on his person and think there's been a cover-up of a cover-up... I am just nit-picking though, I suppose.

I scanned through that part of the report myself, and it doesn't sit well with me either.

As I haven't had a chance to read the report yet, but I have to agree. This doesn't well with me either.
Testing Accessibility

The Iceman

I made some comments about the report and the justice for the families on my Facebook yesterday and the response from my protestant friends was shocking in one way but not surprising in another.
I feel that Catholics/Nationalists/Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles but Protestants/Unionists/loyalists will openly deny there was any police brutality, any collusion, any murders committed directly or indirectly by the british troops.
I have had manys a drunken conversation about it with protestant friends but it always gets brushed under the carpet to save the friendship and not brought up again.

I wonder is this just pride, are they brainwashed into thinking nothing that bad happened or do they just not care, or is it something else I'm missing?
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Rois

Doogie, if you get a moment look at the statement made by Willie B.  He relished the opportunity - name dropping everywhere! 
Part of his statement referred to Martin McGuinness asking him to come to his car and verify that there were no weapons in it, which there weren't.  Willie was chosen by Martin because he was so publicly anti-IRA and even Willie came away with the notion that the provos appeared to feel duped by the security forces as they had agreed to keep weapons away from the march. 

I bet he'd have loved to have been there yesterday.

Doogie Browser

Quote from: Rois on June 16, 2010, 03:14:06 PM
Doogie, if you get a moment look at the statement made by Willie B.  He relished the opportunity - name dropping everywhere! 
Part of his statement referred to Martin McGuinness asking him to come to his car and verify that there were no weapons in it, which there weren't.  Willie was chosen by Martin because he was so publicly anti-IRA and even Willie came away with the notion that the provos appeared to feel duped by the security forces as they had agreed to keep weapons away from the march. 

I bet he'd have loved to have been there yesterday.
Cheers, I did some searching and it never occurred to me to look for his statement, I will certainly do that now.  You are right, there are so many who never lived long enough to see the truth established finally, it makes it all the more poignant.

Olaf

Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles

??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.






lynchbhoy

#175
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.
..........

Olaf

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 16, 2010, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.

Notwithstanding who or what organisation caused the deaths an understandable reaction of a bereaved relative watching yesterday's events would be  .."and what about me"? Would it not?

The Inquiry seems to have hopefully started the  door closing on Bloody Sunday but the thorny issue of dealing with the past (most if not all of it) still needs to be addressed or it seems to me an unexpected   hierarchical structure will develop . This needs to be managed carefully by our government.

I make no distinction between those atrocities carried out by Republicans and those carried out by Loyalists.

I referred to Republican atrocities because the poster stated that republicans would admit  about what went on during the Troubles.


ziggysego

Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 16, 2010, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.

Notwithstanding who or what organisation caused the deaths an understandable reaction of a bereaved relative watching yesterday's events would be  .."and what about me"? Would it not?

The Inquiry seems to have hopefully started the  door closing on Bloody Sunday but the thorny issue of dealing with the past (most if not all of it) still needs to be addressed or it seems to me an unexpected   hierarchical structure will develop . This needs to be managed carefully by our government.

I make no distinction between those atrocities carried out by Republicans and those carried out by Loyalists.

I referred to Republican atrocities because the poster stated that republicans would admit  about what went on during the Troubles.

I for one do not begrudge people having feelings like this, it's perfectly understandable and I wouldn't berate for this. However, this was murder by the state, our so-called protectors. So of course there should be an inquiry into it. Same as any murder where the army, police or government have been involved with. Just like the murder of Billy Wright.

What gets me angry is listening to Gregory Campbell, as an elected representative of the people of East Derry. The language he used was a disgrace and uncalled for. When pushed by Spotlight if he felt if the murders were justified, he refused to answer.
Testing Accessibility

lynchbhoy

Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 16, 2010, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.

Notwithstanding who or what organisation caused the deaths an understandable reaction of a bereaved relative watching yesterday's events would be  .."and what about me"? Would it not?

The Inquiry seems to have hopefully started the  door closing on Bloody Sunday but the thorny issue of dealing with the past (most if not all of it) still needs to be addressed or it seems to me an unexpected   hierarchical structure will develop . This needs to be managed carefully by our government.

I make no distinction between those atrocities carried out by Republicans and those carried out by Loyalists.

I referred to Republican atrocities because the poster stated that republicans would admit  about what went on during the Troubles.
not really understanding your point - if any.
The other poster said that republicans would admit to killings (as a group I expect)
however unionists/loyalists still wont accept the findings of the saville report - as witnessed by gregory campbells antics yesterday - its been known for 38 years that these people were innocent ! Move on - yes we must do so ! Hard to see how campbell etc can pretend they want to !
..........

EC Unique

Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 16, 2010, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: Olaf on June 16, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 16, 2010, 02:49:48 PM

I feel that .....Republicans will openly admit what went on during the troubles
??? Have we found out who commmitted the La Mon atrocity then? Dropping Well?  Enniskillen? Darkley? .......I am afraid that comment doesn't hold water.

I am pleased that the relatives of those killed and injured on Bloody Sunday have found out , on the basis of a thorough examination of the evidence by a Tribunal how their loved ones were killed. (albeit 38 years too late).

I am also sad that countless other relatives   can have that 38 years multiplied infinitely without end.
state sponsored actions ?

the rest were tit for tat killings which are/were deplorable
but when you have killings caused and carried out by the supposed custodians of the law/security - thats a whole different proposition !

I know you dont mean to try to muddy the waters, but there is a massive distinction.
Your comments seem to echo the comments of a lot of unionist /loyalist peoples.
The only common aspect is that there were regretable deaths.
there were plenty of 'atrocities' carried out by unionists/loyalist etc groups as well.
Its not the same thing in the context of the Bloody sunday killings.

Notwithstanding who or what organisation caused the deaths an understandable reaction of a bereaved relative watching yesterday's events would be  .."and what about me"? Would it not?

The Inquiry seems to have hopefully started the  door closing on Bloody Sunday but the thorny issue of dealing with the past (most if not all of it) still needs to be addressed or it seems to me an unexpected   hierarchical structure will develop . This needs to be managed carefully by our government.

I make no distinction between those atrocities carried out by Republicans and those carried out by Loyalists.

I referred to Republican atrocities because the poster stated that republicans would admit  about what went on during the Troubles.

I assume what he meant was that Republicans would admit that some of what went on was wrong. It seems that to admit that is too much for scum like Campbell. He is a disgracefull human being.