Mayo v Galway 26.6.11

[AbbeySider]

Real top level IC footballers don't spring from the womb fully formed and if they are not nurtured, any potential soon gets lost. Mayo always produced plenty of young players with talent but very few reach their potential within the county. Emigration, other interests and lack of joined-up thinking within the echelons of the Mayo county board has conspired to throw generations of talented young Mayo footballers onto the scrapheap.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0622/1224299383646.html

The passion their people have for football is incredible and I think that always left you feeling uneasy about your chances against them. They're football-mad and you always got the feeling that if they could harness it, you'd be in trouble.

Good article

[muppet]

Oh I agree Tubberman, most lads don't think you have superstars (Rosnarun excepted!) but I don't think you realise how average some of your players are. I don't want to go listing lads out but I think you don't demand enough of your players or look at why you produces oceans of decent footballers but few, if any, exceptional ones. Brick Walsh, the Waterford hurler, is a better footballer than all bar Dillon in Mayo, Ian Ryan from Limerick is a far better forward than most in Mayo, Limerick have also had two midfielders (Quane and Galvin) far better than anything Mayo have had in my memory. Carlow have a better midfield, Westmeath have produce a couple of top class players in the past
10 or so years, I could go on. Outside of McDonald have Mayo produced anyone that might be called the best footballer in Ireland during their playing days in living memory? When was the last top midfielder yev had, and don't say Brady because he wasn't, and have Mayo ever produced a gooch, bernard brogan, Stevie o'neill type scoring forward? Now maybe Mayo have and I just font remember them but for yer size and football playing population I think you have an extremely poor record of turning out real high level IC footballers.

Zulu I take it living memory for you began in 1998. 

It goes back a bit further than that, if you think McHale was better then you're living in a fantasy world. I can't think of anyone else, I can't comment with any authority on Willie Joe so maybe he was but the point I'm making is that a county like Limerick, where football is 4th in the sporting pecking order has produced two outstanding midfielders in the last 12 years, whereas Mayo with a bigger pick and better club football have not.

On the law of averages Mayo should be producing a few very good players every 7 or 8 years anyway but you're not, why?

Your argument is that we are at the level of Waterford and Limerick footballers. You back this up with a historical comparison. How many All-Ireland Finals or All-Stars have Limerick and Waterford footballers seen?

Martin O'Connell was POTY in 1996. He was a class player but well past his best in 96. McHale (bettering such Limerick worshippers as Dara O'Sé, Kevin Walsh and John McDermott) would have been a worthy winner but was sent off in the final and was on the losing side. Pat Fallon was a shoe in for POTY in 1997 until Maurice Fitzgerald's tour de force in the Final.

Padden and Kilgallon shared 3 All-stars. Even the great double winning Cork midfield couldn't catch a ball over McHale in the 1989 final.

What exactly have any Limerick midfielders done?

[Bomber2312]

wouldnt the limerick midfield pair make the current kerry team, the current dublin team, the current tyrone team, the current kildare side (sans early), and galvin arguably would be on any team in the country?

[muppet]

wouldnt the limerick midfield pair make the current kerry team, the current dublin team, the current tyrone team, the current kildare side (sans early), and galvin arguably would be on any team in the country?

Just shows the paucity of decent midfielders in the country at the moment. A crocked Dermot Early in his 30s is still the best out there.

[Bomber2312]

players always get better once they are retired! think your being abit unfair on some of the current crop! the dynamics of the game have changed, more often the ball is not hoofed out to the fear laidir in the middle, so the current brand of midfielder high fields much less but is much more involved with the linking of play

[muppet]

players always get better once they are retired! think your being abit unfair on some of the current crop! the dynamics of the game have changed, more often the ball is not hoofed out to the fear laidir in the middle, so the current brand of midfielder high fields much less but is much more involved with the linking of play

I was paraphrasing you. 

[Bomber2312]

i didnt mean that the limerick lads were poor players, rather very good players and therefore, someone saying the limerick lads would make the any of the connacht teams midfield isnt that bad, as they would likely make most teams in irelands midfield

[muppet]

i didnt mean that the limerick lads were poor players, rather very good players and therefore, someone saying the limerick lads would make the any of the connacht teams midfield isnt that bad, as they would likely make most teams in irelands midfield

He said Mayo hasn't had a top midfielder in living memory. Then he was pointing to current Limerick and Waterford players.

[ballinaman]

No sign of a team yet obviously? Thought it was due afte training last night.

[Zulu]

Jesus Muppet, my point isn't that Waterford or Limerick are better than Mayo but that many counties with inferior resources are producing at least the odd exceptional player. My point is that Mayo with a big playing population, little hurling, a strong club scene, and a number of schools playing football at decent level are not producing enough real quality footballers. Christ ye haven't a full back or centre back worthy of the name either.

You're entitled to your opinion but none of the midfielders you mention are in the same league as the Limerick boys. And while I admire your defence of your players I think that's exactly what's wrong with Mayo. You shouldn't be accepting decent players, you should be demanding exceptional players. Now I accept exceptional players aren't simply produced but you can help talented kids become exceptional, why are Spain producing so many great players while England can hardly produce one? Mayo wouldnt have one player in an Irish 15 and only Dillon would even be in the discussion. Given your advantages re other counties that isn't acceptable. Hell I'm getting frustrated writing this, if I were a Mayo man living in Mayo I'd be kicking up holy war.

Look at dublin hurling for what can be achieve with a good plan and resources and watch Kerry slip back into the pack because they haven't embraced best practice. They won't go back as far as Mayo would due to a winning mentality but they have some barren times ahead.

Mayo can win an AI in the next 15 years but they won't as long as they keep thinking decent footballers are good and that the whole county doesn't have to get on the same wavelength. And don't mention yer CB, if they're as bad as ye say then f**k them out. The time foe excuses is long since past.

[muppet]

Jesus Muppet, my point isn't that Waterford or Limerick are better than Mayo but that many counties with inferior resources are producing at least the odd exceptional player. My point is that Mayo with a big playing population, little hurling, a strong club scene, and a number of schools playing football at decent level are not producing enough real quality footballers. Christ ye haven't a full back or centre back worthy of the name either.

You're entitled to your opinion but none of the midfielders you mention are in the same league as the Limerick boys. And while I admire your defence of your players I think that's exactly what's wrong with Mayo. You shouldn't be accepting decent players, you should be demanding exceptional players. Now I accept exceptional players aren't simply produced but you can help talented kids become exceptional, why are Spain producing so many great players while England can hardly produce one? Mayo wouldnt have one player in an Irish 15 and only Dillon would even be in the discussion. Given your advantages re other counties that isn't acceptable. Hell I'm getting frustrated writing this, if I were a Mayo man living in Mayo I'd be kicking up holy war.

Look at dublin hurling for what can be achieve with a good plan and resources and watch Kerry slip back into the pack because they haven't embraced best practice. They won't go back as far as Mayo would due to a winning mentality but they have some barren times ahead.

Mayo can win an AI in the next 15 years but they won't as long as they keep thinking decent footballers are good and that the whole county doesn't have to get on the same wavelength. And don't mention yer CB, if they're as bad as ye say then f**k them out. The time foe excuses is long since past.

You blame us for over-rating players and then insist that Galvin and Quane, who haven't won a provincial title let alone an All-Star between them, are better than Padden, McHale, Kilgallon and Fallon who have 5 All-Stars, countless provincial titles, 6 All Ireland Final appearances etc. Have they even played in Croke Park?

You are not a Mayoman. Please don't lecture us on how to be one.

[macdanger2]

Much as I hate to say it, Zulu is correct - if you were to pick a best 15 from the past 10 years, how many Mayo lads would make it?? In fairness, not many. MacDonald is the only one who would really enter the discussion.

However, the fact is that many of the "exceptional" players from other counties which have been mentioned probably wouldn't make it either. Galvin for example is one of the best midfielders around at the moment and would make any team in the country but probably wouldn't make MF on a team from the last 20 years.

In reality, we have one back (KH) and one forward (AD) at the moment who would have a good shot at making most teams in the country and the rest are of a fairly average standard with the potential to be excellent on their day. Some (Freeman, Doherty, AO'S, McLoughlin) have the potential to be outstanding players but that remains to be seen.

Back to the game, if Galway go with Hanley & Bergin at MF, we could struggle to win ball in a big way.

Even if Mayo do announce a team today/tomorrow, I would expect a couple of changes before Sunday

[Zulu]

You blame us for over-rating players and then insist that Galvin and Quane, who haven't won a provincial title let alone an All-Star between them, are better than Padden, McHale, Kilgallon and Fallon who have 5 All-Stars, countless provincial titles, 6 All Ireland Final appearances etc. Have they even played in Croke Park?

Good man muppet, you are living up to your nasme and displaying all that is wrong with Mayo. Those boys played with Limerick for the love of God, sure Quane played on Limerick teams that would have been amongst the worst in Ireland. Only a proper muppet judges players sloely on what they've won. Nobody here would dispute that Galvin has been one of the best midfielders in Ireland over the past decade. If they had been born in any of the strong counties they would have All Stars at least. Anyway the point I'm making isn't about the relative merits of those players against Mayo midfielders but that other counties, like Limerick, Westmeath, Tipp and Wexford have all produced players that Mayo badly need and should be producing at least every now and again. Granted Hanley may have been that player but even if he was, one isn't a good return. If you can't grasp that basic point then there is little point discussing things with you.

You are not a Mayoman. Please don't lecture us on how to be one.

You have to be a Mayoman to discuss Mayo football on a national discussion board do you? Grow up, I'm not lecturing you I'm debating/discussing issues and trying to support my point with examples. It isn't my fault that you can't follow the basic point or are childish enough to feel you are being lectured.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Jaysus lads, the Zulu hasn't been this thick since Rorke's Drift in 1879!

[tonto1888]

who would be favourite for this game lads? Also, anyone know which games are live on tele this week so I can plan my sunday down the boozer?