Mayo v Galway 26.6.11

[shark]

Just added 6 years on from the 05 U-21, he could well be 25/26, same point either way.

He has just turned 25.

[ross4life]

Armstrong isn't quite the loss that everyone is making out – it isn't PJ that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong we'd have a better shot at winning the game if he was fit and playing well but Armstrong has had constant hamstring problems throughout his senior career and as a result of the constant injuries has only very occasionally shown flashes of his potential. He is about 27 years old now,

Thought he was on the 2004 minor team that beat Ros in Connacht Final - think he scored 2 goals that day.

Yep Armstrong scored 2-3 of the 3-10 that day including a last minute goal to beat us in Cashelbear.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Chances are that a good team will await the winner of Connacht but seeing as I wouldn't put any Connacht team within the top 8 in the country a Q-final appearance would certainly be a big deal for Galway or Mayo this year if they made it there.

Can I ask which teams you consider top eight in the country and how you rank them Fairche? This béal bochting from Connacht people always pisses me off. If you rank the last eight as the teams that are in the quarter-finals then a Connacht team has to be one of them. If you make a list then it's an entirely subjective judgement.

If you go with the quarters, then the Connacht Champion has to beat one of the qualifiers to make a semi. They won't beat Cork or Kerry. Fair enough. But the odds of getting that short straw are 3/1 against. Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

[An Fhairche Abu]

Chances are that a good team will await the winner of Connacht but seeing as I wouldn't put any Connacht team within the top 8 in the country a Q-final appearance would certainly be a big deal for Galway or Mayo this year if they made it there.

Can I ask which teams you consider top eight in the country and how you rank them Fairche? This béal bochting from Connacht people always pisses me off. If you rank the last eight as the teams that are in the quarter-finals then a Connacht team has to be one of them. If you make a list then it's an entirely subjective judgement.

If you go with the quarters, then the Connacht Champion has to beat one of the qualifiers to make a semi. They won't beat Cork or Kerry. Fair enough. But the odds of getting that short straw are 3/1 against. Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

Of course I was talking about my personal opinion as to the top 8 teams in the country.

Cork
Kerry
Dublin
Kildare
Tyrone

Hard to rank these counties in a specific order after the top 5 but they are all ahead of the teams in Connacht in my opinion
Derry
Monaghan
Donegal
Down
Meath
Wexford

Rossies have a chance to be hitting back towards the top (subjective) 8 and maybe at the end of the year they will be there but in the past year they have only beaten Sligo and Leitrim in the championship.  Mayo and Galway are nowhere near based on all known championship form this year and last. Galway haven't beaten a team outside Connacht since 2004, Mayo lost to Longford last year, Meath the year before.
No beal bocht here, I think I'm just stating the obvious, personally I'd be delighted with a Q final appearance by Galway this year, maybe you rate Mayo ahead of where I would put ye but I don't rate Mayo or Galway at the minute at all.

Why do the Connacht teams deserved to be rated better than the teams I've named above in your opinion?

[IolarCoisCuain]

Chances are that a good team will await the winner of Connacht but seeing as I wouldn't put any Connacht team within the top 8 in the country a Q-final appearance would certainly be a big deal for Galway or Mayo this year if they made it there.

Can I ask which teams you consider top eight in the country and how you rank them Fairche? This béal bochting from Connacht people always pisses me off. If you rank the last eight as the teams that are in the quarter-finals then a Connacht team has to be one of them. If you make a list then it's an entirely subjective judgement.

If you go with the quarters, then the Connacht Champion has to beat one of the qualifiers to make a semi. They won't beat Cork or Kerry. Fair enough. But the odds of getting that short straw are 3/1 against. Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

Of course I was talking about my personal opinion as to the top 8 teams in the country.

Cork
Kerry
Dublin
Kildare
Tyrone

Hard to rank these counties in a specific order after the top 5 but they are all ahead of the teams in Connacht in my opinion
Derry
Monaghan
Donegal
Down
Meath
Wexford

Rossies have a chance to be hitting back towards the top (subjective) 8 and maybe at the end of the year they will be there but in the past year they have only beaten Sligo and Leitrim in the championship.  Mayo and Galway are nowhere near based on all known championship form this year and last. Galway haven't beaten a team outside Connacht since 2004, Mayo lost to Longford last year, Meath the year before.
No beal bocht here, I think I'm just stating the obvious, personally I'd be delighted with a Q final appearance by Galway this year, maybe you rate Mayo ahead of where I would put ye but I don't rate Mayo or Galway at the minute at all.

Why do the Connacht teams deserved to be rated better than the teams I've named above in your opinion?

Roscommon, of course. I named them in my original post:

Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

Of the team you list, I'd expect Roscommon to beat Monaghan and Meath. Donegal I haven't seen. Kildare will rue those wides one day - who's to say it won't be against Roscommon? Dublin are there to be had. Flawed in every line. Tyrone are not replacing their great men. Down - you wouldn't know what the hell is going on in Down. Wexford and Derry I'd be wary of, but I certainly wouldn't be running up the white flag. Puncher's chance only against Kerry or Cork, of course. A 30 county team has a puncher's chance only against Kerry or Cork.

And why people don't think like that, picking flaws in the opposition instead of themselves, I really can't imagine.

[Rossfan]

Armstrong isn't quite the loss that everyone is making out – it isn't PJ that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong we'd have a better shot at winning the game if he was fit and playing well but Armstrong has had constant hamstring problems throughout his senior career and as a result of the constant injuries has only very occasionally shown flashes of his potential. He is about 27 years old now,

Thought he was on the 2004 minor team that beat Ros in Connacht Final - think he scored 2 goals that day.

Yep Armstrong scored 2-3 of the 3-10 that day including a last minute goal to beat us in Cashelbear.

He got the winning goal near the end after he fouled Tom Bannon ... can't remember but I bet the Ref was from Laythrum 

Gas to see the Mayowestros boys talking us up  to be good enough to be batin' Monaghan , Meath and possibly Kildare 
They obviously expect to be facing us in the Connacht Final 

[Zulu]

Couldn't really agree with you there Iolar, the Connacht teams have no chance against Cork or Kerry IMO, though that's true of most teams at the moment. I don't think Dublin are there for the taking at all and Tyrone will still take beating. All those teams deserve to be ranked ahead of the Connacht teams. I think Kildare, Derry, Donegal and one or two more are probably ahead of them too though once you leave the top 4 the difference between the next 8-10 is probably small enough.

From reading the Connacht lads here over the years I think the Mayo lads propensity to over rate their own players is quite marked. After a loss ye can be critical but a few weeks later many seem to forget all about it. Take Trevor Mortimor for example, he is now being talked of as the Mayo centre back and being lauded by some for kicking a late score against London. Nobody involved with Mayo
should get credit for anything they did against London because they dont deserve it and it shows nothing. The fact that Mayo needed Trevor to kick the score highlights only how useless Mayo were.


You can't lose to Sligo, Longford and draw with London in your last 3 championship games and then complain if people rate you outside the top 8 in the country, they're the results of a bottom 8 team.
The same could be said for Galway. Roscommon are improving but haven't done enough yet to put them in the top 8. They could be in the next year or two but they still have to walk the walk.

[Tubberman]

I'd have to agree with most of what you've said there Zulu. Connacht football is at a low standard at the moment.
Maybe we'll be surprised this summer but as things stand, I wouldn't put any of the Connacht counties in the top 8 in the country.
I think Mayo, Ros and Galway have the potential to make their way into the top 8 this summer, but at the moment I don't think there's a strong argument for including any of the 3.

Where I disagree with you is the rating we give our players. I don't think anyone in Mayo thinks we have superstars in our team. The last few years have dulled any giddiness or over-optimism!

[Zulu]

Oh I agree Tubberman, most lads don't think you have superstars (Rosnarun excepted!) but I don't think you realise how average some of your players are. I don't want to go listing lads out but I think you don't demand enough of your players or look at why you produces oceans of decent footballers but few, if any, exceptional ones. Brick Walsh, the Waterford hurler, is a better footballer than all bar Dillon in Mayo, Ian Ryan from Limerick is a far better forward than most in Mayo, Limerick have also had two midfielders (Quane and Galvin) far better than anything Mayo have had in my memory. Carlow have a better midfield, Westmeath have produce a couple of top class players in the past 10 or so years, I could go on. Outside of McDonald have Mayo produced anyone that might be called the best footballer in Ireland during their playing days in living memory? When was the last top midfielder yev had, and don't say Brady because he wasn't, and have Mayo ever produced a gooch, bernard brogan, Stevie o'neill type scoring forward? Now maybe Mayo have and I just font remember them but for yer size and football playing population I think you have an extremely poor record of turning out real high level IC footballers.

[Chimley]

Real top level IC footballers don't spring from the womb fully formed and if they are not nurtured, any potential soon gets lost. Mayo always produced plenty of young players with talent but very few reach their potential within the county. Emigration, other interests and lack of joined-up thinking within the echelons of the Mayo county board has conspired to throw generations of talented young Mayo footballers onto the scrapheap.

[muppet]

Oh I agree Tubberman, most lads don't think you have superstars (Rosnarun excepted!) but I don't think you realise how average some of your players are. I don't want to go listing lads out but I think you don't demand enough of your players or look at why you produces oceans of decent footballers but few, if any, exceptional ones. Brick Walsh, the Waterford hurler, is a better footballer than all bar Dillon in Mayo, Ian Ryan from Limerick is a far better forward than most in Mayo, Limerick have also had two midfielders (Quane and Galvin) far better than anything Mayo have had in my memory. Carlow have a better midfield, Westmeath have produce a couple of top class players in the past 10 or so years, I could go on. Outside of McDonald have Mayo produced anyone that might be called the best footballer in Ireland during their playing days in living memory? When was the last top midfielder yev had, and don't say Brady because he wasn't, and have Mayo ever produced a gooch, bernard brogan, Stevie o'neill type scoring forward? Now maybe Mayo have and I just font remember them but for yer size and football playing population I think you have an extremely poor record of turning out real high level IC footballers.

Zulu I take it living memory for you began in 1998. 

[seafoid]

Real top level IC footballers don't spring from the womb fully formed and if they are not nurtured, any potential soon gets lost. Mayo always produced plenty of young players with talent but very few reach their potential within the county. Emigration, other interests and lack of joined-up thinking within the echelons of the Mayo county board has conspired to throw generations of talented young Mayo footballers onto the scrapheap.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0622/1224299383646.html

The passion their people have for football is incredible and I think that always left you feeling uneasy about your chances against them. They're football-mad and you always got the feeling that if they could harness it, you'd be in trouble.

[An Fhairche Abu]

Chances are that a good team will await the winner of Connacht but seeing as I wouldn't put any Connacht team within the top 8 in the country a Q-final appearance would certainly be a big deal for Galway or Mayo this year if they made it there.

Can I ask which teams you consider top eight in the country and how you rank them Fairche? This béal bochting from Connacht people always pisses me off. If you rank the last eight as the teams that are in the quarter-finals then a Connacht team has to be one of them. If you make a list then it's an entirely subjective judgement.

If you go with the quarters, then the Connacht Champion has to beat one of the qualifiers to make a semi. They won't beat Cork or Kerry. Fair enough. But the odds of getting that short straw are 3/1 against. Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

Of course I was talking about my personal opinion as to the top 8 teams in the country.

Cork
Kerry
Dublin
Kildare
Tyrone

Hard to rank these counties in a specific order after the top 5 but they are all ahead of the teams in Connacht in my opinion
Derry
Monaghan
Donegal
Down
Meath
Wexford

Rossies have a chance to be hitting back towards the top (subjective) 8 and maybe at the end of the year they will be there but in the past year they have only beaten Sligo and Leitrim in the championship.  Mayo and Galway are nowhere near based on all known championship form this year and last. Galway haven't beaten a team outside Connacht since 2004, Mayo lost to Longford last year, Meath the year before.
No beal bocht here, I think I'm just stating the obvious, personally I'd be delighted with a Q final appearance by Galway this year, maybe you rate Mayo ahead of where I would put ye but I don't rate Mayo or Galway at the minute at all.

Why do the Connacht teams deserved to be rated better than the teams I've named above in your opinion?

Roscommon, of course. I named them in my original post:

Who's to say that Roscommon - if we take Roscommon as sitting Champions even, if not Champions elect - should be running scared of any other team? Why would they? There are some good teams in the qualifiers but my God, there's none of them in the Red Branch Knights.

Of the team you list, I'd expect Roscommon to beat Monaghan and Meath. Donegal I haven't seen. Kildare will rue those wides one day - who's to say it won't be against Roscommon? Dublin are there to be had. Flawed in every line. Tyrone are not replacing their great men. Down - you wouldn't know what the hell is going on in Down. Wexford and Derry I'd be wary of, but I certainly wouldn't be running up the white flag. Puncher's chance only against Kerry or Cork, of course. A 30 county team has a puncher's chance only against Kerry or Cork.

And why people don't think like that, picking flaws in the opposition instead of themselves, I really can't imagine.

You can pick flaws in every team, I don't see any evidence myself to suggest that any Connacht team can be classed within the 8 best teams in the country, thats not beal bocht just calling it like it is in my view.

[Zulu]

Oh I agree Tubberman, most lads don't think you have superstars (Rosnarun excepted!) but I don't think you realise how average some of your players are. I don't want to go listing lads out but I think you don't demand enough of your players or look at why you produces oceans of decent footballers but few, if any, exceptional ones. Brick Walsh, the Waterford hurler, is a better footballer than all bar Dillon in Mayo, Ian Ryan from Limerick is a far better forward than most in Mayo, Limerick have also had two midfielders (Quane and Galvin) far better than anything Mayo have had in my memory. Carlow have a better midfield, Westmeath have produce a couple of top class players in the past
10 or so years, I could go on. Outside of McDonald have Mayo produced anyone that might be called the best footballer in Ireland during their playing days in living memory? When was the last top midfielder yev had, and don't say Brady because he wasn't, and have Mayo ever produced a gooch, bernard brogan, Stevie o'neill type scoring forward? Now maybe Mayo have and I just font remember them but for yer size and football playing population I think you have an extremely poor record of turning out real high level IC footballers.

Zulu I take it living memory for you began in 1998. 

It goes back a bit further than that, if you think McHale was better then you're living in a fantasy world. I can't think of anyone else, I can't comment with any authority on Willie Joe so maybe he was but the point I'm making is that a county like Limerick, where football is 4th in the sporting pecking order has produced two outstanding midfielders in the last 12 years, whereas Mayo with a bigger pick and better club football have not.

On the law of averages Mayo should be producing a few very good players every 7 or 8 years anyway but you're not, why?

[seafoid]

Oh I agree Tubberman, most lads don't think you have superstars (Rosnarun excepted!) but I don't think you realise how average some of your players are. I don't want to go listing lads out but I think you don't demand enough of your players or look at why you produces oceans of decent footballers but few, if any, exceptional ones. Brick Walsh, the Waterford hurler, is a better footballer than all bar Dillon in Mayo, Ian Ryan from Limerick is a far better forward than most in Mayo, Limerick have also had two midfielders (Quane and Galvin) far better than anything Mayo have had in my memory. Carlow have a better midfield, Westmeath have produce a couple of top class players in the past
10 or so years, I could go on. Outside of McDonald have Mayo produced anyone that might be called the best footballer in Ireland during their playing days in living memory? When was the last top midfielder yev had, and don't say Brady because he wasn't, and have Mayo ever produced a gooch, bernard brogan, Stevie o'neill type scoring forward? Now maybe Mayo have and I just font remember them but for yer size and football playing population I think you have an extremely poor record of turning out real high level IC footballers.

Zulu I take it living memory for you began in 1998. 

It goes back a bit further than that, if you think McHale was better then you're living in a fantasy world. I can't think of anyone else, I can't comment with any authority on Willie Joe so maybe he was but the point I'm making is that a county like Limerick, where football is 4th in the sporting pecking order has produced two outstanding midfielders in the last 12 years, whereas Mayo with a bigger pick and better club football have not.

On the law of averages Mayo should be producing a few very good players every 7 or 8 years anyway but you're not, why?

Pat Fallon 97 Allstar
McHale 96 Allstar