15 year old Offaly boy not allowed to hurl??

[Zulu]

We need to cop ourselves on in the GAA. Parish rules and the like are alright, though small clubs in counties where they don't exist get on just fine, but we embarrass ourselves to often when we force kids, who simply want to play a bit of sport, to obey the rules or give up the game. I doubt any other sport in the world behaves the way we do in relation to young kids and 'eligibility rules'. Offaly CB, like the Kerry CB before them should be ashamed.

Mother claims GAA 'bullying' her child

Friday, January 31, 2014

The Offaly mother of a 15-year-old hurler prevented from lining out for his first club has claimed the GAA are bullying her child.


By John Fogarty
GAA Correspondent

Conor Smith had been a juvenile member of Birr for four years before being informed in 2012 that he was ineligible as he was living in the Crinkill club's catchment area in the Birr parish and, as his father had not represented Birr at senior level, could not play for them.

Smith's late grandfather is Tom Ryan, an honorary president of the Birr club, but Crinkill queried the legitimacy of him playing for Birr in an U14 game between the neighbouring sides in August 2012.

An investigation was launched by Offaly's Competitions Control Committee which, in September of that year, proposed sanctions against him and Birr's chairman and secretary.

Smith has missed 33 days of school with stress as a result of his situation, which culminated in him bringing his case in front of the Disputes Resolution Authority (DRA) last September.

However, it wasn't heard as it was deemed to be in effect a parish rule case, which the DRA had already passed judgment on in 2009. However, the independent legal body had later agreed there were grounds for Birr to come before the tribunal again.

Smith scored the winning goal for Birr in the 2011 Offaly Feile final against Coolderry. He is now a promising handballer, winning two Leinster titles and reaching the quarter-finals of the world pairs.

However, his mother Trish is uncertain whether he will ever play hurling again. The ordeal had a deep impact on him and his doctor initially believed he was being bullied at school. After the first county hearing, he vomited through anxiety.

"As far as I'm concerned, the GAA have bullied my child and stopping him from doing something he loved. He hurled for Birr for four years and nobody said a thing.

"I feel our child has been penalised. We didn't break any rules. I wouldn't subject any child to what Conor has gone through. He was 14 at the time of the first hearing and 15 by the end.

"I've another young lad coming on and I swear he won't go through it, but he's been red and green since he was a child and watching DVDs of games with his grandfather. He'll be devastated when he's stopped hurling, but I will not let him go to any hearing.

"I remember after one hearing Conor pleaded with me not to send him to school the next day. The only way I can describe what happened is like a death. It was their grandfather's wish to see them playing for Birr."

Birr have long maintained the parish rule should be implemented and anyone born within the parish of Birr should be entitled to play for any of its three clubs — Birr, Crinkill or Carrig-Riverstown (Crinkill and Carrig-Riverstown form CRC Gaels at underage level).

The parish rule is enforced via the Offaly bye-laws for all grades except where there are no underage teams in a parish and a player can line out for an independent team which does not bear the name of an adult club within the county.

However, the Offaly County Board maintained Smith was an illegal Birr player as per a boundary agreement, which Birr claim is superseded by the parish rule.

An Offaly hearings committee document presented to the Leinster Hearings Committee read: "It would be easy to treat this as simply a case of a young [player] wishing to play hurling and let sentiment cloud your judgement. But as there is an agreement in place we must honour and enforce the terms of that agreement".

Trish Smith was particularly incensed that Colm's name was mentioned on signposts for the tribunal around the hotel where the DRA meeting was held last year. "I was highly disgusted by it. 'Conor Smith versus the DRA' everywhere. A juvenile's name."

On the advice of his parents, Smith also wrote to the DRA asking them to refrain from emailing him directly as he was a juvenile.

At one of the hearings, Smith himself asked why he wasn't allowed to choose which club he wanted to play for in his parish.

"That's what he can't understand," said his mother. "He hasn't done anything wrong."

© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

[Zulu]

There was a case a few years ago where a player from Armagh playing club football in Dublin, where he was living, wanted to play for Louth. Should we get rid of the county boundary so he can line out for who he likes? Or is this case only worth talking about because there is a minor involved.

Of course we should treat kids differently from adults, wider society does the same in most situations. There should be protection for small clubs but a CB should be able to look at individual cases and use its common sense to allow kids play sport with the club they want to when it is the logical thing to do.

[armaghniac]

I think the idea of club catchments is a good thing in the GAA and I wouldn't advocate a free for all as it would make the big bigger rather than increase access to GAA games.

However, in this case there should be a statute of limitations, it is ridiculous to let a player play for 4 seasons and then decide he is with the wrong club. He should be allowed carry on and if this has exposed a lack of clarity in local arrangement then this should be sorted for the future.

[orangeman]

Zulu, you do have a point, but where does this discretion or common sense begin and end ?

And as someone said, common sense isn't in the rule book.

[Zulu]

I think the idea of club catchments is a good thing in the GAA and I wouldn't advocate a free for all as it would make the big bigger rather than increase access to GAA games.

I agree but we can't have a 'rules are rules' attitude to kids sport. A kid who wants to play with his friends is a world away from an adult wanting to leave their small club to play with a big club in order to win championships.

Zulu, you do have a point, but where does this discretion or common sense begin and end ?

Every CB should have the leeway to assess individual cases and allow transfers when it's clear the best interests of a child is to play with a particular club.

[AZOffaly]

I think the idea of club catchments is a good thing in the GAA and I wouldn't advocate a free for all as it would make the big bigger rather than increase access to GAA games.

I agree but we can't have a 'rules are rules' attitude to kids sport. A kid who wants to play with his friends is a world away from an adult wanting to leave their small club to play with a big club in order to win championships.

Zulu, you do have a point, but where does this discretion or common sense begin and end ?

Every CB should have the leeway to assess individual cases and allow transfers when it's clear the best interests of a child is to play with a particular club.

I agree. I'm loathe to jeapordise the existence of small clubs, and this is a tiny club versus a big one, but in my mind if a child has been playing with one group of friends since he was 6 or 7, how is he not as much part of that club as anyone else?

I would say there's a slight complication in this case in that he handballs for Crinkle. That may be causing some of the angst on their side.

[Zulu]

Don't really see that as any justification AZ, not that you are arguing their case, but this is just another case of GAA rules being twisted to farcical levels IMO. It isn't simply about the particulars of this case but the overall issue of preventing kids from playing with clubs of their choice when all reasonable logic would suggest they should be allowed to.

[AZOffaly]

To be honest Zulu, I actually think this is related to a long running saga between Birr, Crinkle and the CB. See this for a bit more context, and look at the dates. This dates back to before this lad was able to walk, and to be honest I think he is being used as a pawn to further the case. By whom, I'm not sure.




http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/clubs-four-year-wait-for-hearing-on-parish-rule-257228.html?utm_source=iosapp&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=sharebutton



I have to say I smell bullshit in some of this emotive language. This row was well known about, and either Birr and/or this woman with her connections would have known well what was going on.

[Zulu]

I certainly hope nobody in Offaly GAA is using a 15 year old as a pawn in some power struggle. We've hit rock bottom if that's the case.

[AZOffaly]

I wouldn't be surprised, and I'd be looking at the mother and Birr. She seems well up on it, and connected to the club. There's no way Birr or herself were caught by surprise here.

Power struggle probably the wrong word. Test case more likely.

[orangeman]

There are loads of young lads and adults as well openly playing for teams that they're not living or working in and nobody passes a blind bit of notice to it. There seems to a history with case and as AZ suggests, there looks to be be more to this than meets the eye.

It is undoubtedly sad that it ever got as far as the DRA, not once but twice which in itself is madness.

There is no flexibility in GAA rules and once CCCs have to start applying the rules, all logic, common sense and direction sadly disappear for the greater good and protection of the overall association.

The GAA is a great organisation and does so much good work for the country but this sort of case does it no favours at all.

[Zulu]

Yes, because it's that black and white

You do appreciate there is a different psychology at play with adults and kids don't you? Most kids play sport to have fun and be with their friends, not out of a loyalty to to their town or village or to win county championships etc.

There is no problem having eligibility rules to protect clubs but we have to have some leeway when we are dealing with kids so that exceptional cases can be addressed.

Maggie Thatcher would no doubt appreciate your adherence to the rules, even in the face of all logic, - crime is crime is crime and all that.

[David McKeown]

I have never liked the rules relating to minor players and who thy are entitled to play for particularly when they only seem to be adhered to if the youngster is any good. (No one has ever batted an eyelid about me moving about between clubs as a kid) but is the headline not sensationalist. Surely the kid isn't being stopped from playing hurling he's just being told which club he can hurl for which is completely different. That said I still don't know why we can't just met the kid play.

The great thing about clubs is that they are made up of people who want to play for the club. If any club mate of mine wanted a transfer I'd happily let them go

[AZOffaly]

The headline is sensationalist, and the more I hear about this case up at home, the more I think this is a cynical ploy by Birr, no doubt with the consent of the mother in question, to challenge this agreed Offaly Bye-Law.

The background to this is that this rule (where Crinkill have a defined boundary, and anyone in that area plays for them) has been in place since 2003 or so. Essentially what it does, however, is it brought a lot of old Birr catchment into Crinkill, especially as a lot of ex Birr players were moving out of the town and to the outskirts. If you don't know Birr, Crinkill is essentially a suburb. There is no obvious line where a newcomer would know they have left Birr and are in Crinkill, apart from a sign on the road. Carrig and Riverstown is different, as it's obvious you have left Birr before you hit Carrig.

St. Brendan's Park in Birr is probably 10 long pucks from the Thatch Restaurant in Crinkill.

However, all that being said, this rule, and agreement or concession regarding someone's father playing senior for Birr, is in place for 10 years or more. This child is 15. He lives in Crinkill and never, ever, played legally for Birr. Also, given the fact that the Birr club are obviously aware of this rule, and I'd bet anything that the woman in question is also fully au fait with the rule, given her connections to the Birr club, it's not an unreasonable supposition that both parties here knew exactly what was happening, and they are trying to test the rule. It's an absolute nonsense for Birr to say that they are in any way caught by surprise here. Likewise it is very unlikely that the woman herself didn't see this coming down the line.

I'm sure they knew right well, and decided to bring things to a head to try and either get the rule reversed or the agreement regarding parental association to be extended or modified somehow so that anyone with an affinity with Birr can play with them.

It's pretty transparent when you consider that the same journalist in the same paper (John Fogarty in the Examiner - a journo I have good time for by the way) has two stories. The first is the story where Birr are trying to get their case about this rule heard in the DRA. The second just happens to be a prime example, in emotive terms, of how this rule is impacting a particular child.

Birr are chancing their arm here I think.

[AZOffaly]

I should say that Birr are unhappy that the division from 2003 and rule exist in the first place. I wouldn't want people to think that Birr were happy about this until now, in fairness to them. If anything it makes the scenario I am painting even more likely.