From the HoganStand...
GAA on red alert amid Aussie scout invasion
13 February 2008
Alarm bells are ringing in the GAA after word spread that Aussie Rules scouts will be placed in all 32 counties to tap emerging talent.
The proposed scheme is the brainchild of agent Ricky Nixon, who will sell information on Ireland's pool of talent to AFL clubs.
Having already lost the likes of Martin Clarke, the O hAilpins, Tadgh Kennelly, Colm Begley, Pierce Hanley, Brendan Murphy and Kevin Dyas to the Aussie code, the GAA will not want the drain of talent to accelerate.
The situation is a grave concern to Association chiefs, who are expected to act quickly in the face of this new threat.
*****************************
It sounds like the Aussies are stepping up their recruitment of players from Ireland.
The article above sounds a little sensationalist but if there is any truth in it; there is need for concern.
Realistically can anything be done to stop top GAA players from playing in the AFL?
Its not right to place a ban on players who choose to play another sport but is there an alternative?
Is it possible to provide an incentive to stay?
Why on earth would they need scouts in All 32 counties? I could do the Kilkenny scouts job from home.
Its like this the only way to stop this is to start paying players. Not everyone will go to Oz, its a big danger. In Tyrone we have had to my knowledge 4 recent incidents as regards professionalism:
1) The contract Sean Cavanagh turned down
2) The Kyle Coney trial and departure
3) The loss of Niall Mc Ginn to a soccor club
4) The loss of Aidan Mc Carron to a soccor club
The agents will do anything to get a fee in all of this. You cant blame the players. We will always lose to guys who want to make their money out of sport and fair play to them iof they are good enough. Then again all due respects they are not really what the GAA is about either. I know a lot of good players will leave but it must not be let affect the asociation.
I think we can stand the loss of 4/5 players a year and most likely they will not all succede at the highest level. Don't forget the Aussies are looking for athletes who can adapt to all the running they have to do and there are not many in that category. This new scouiting system is just some guy trying to muscle in and sell his services on an existing situation. I would be amazed if the clubs did not have there own unofficial scouts here already.
Certainly contact via International Rules should be maintained if only to allow some input into the AFL controling the activities of these agents from a health and safety viewpoint. The AFL will not want their clubs associated with' fly by nights 'offering kids all sorts of inducements to kids and parents
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 13, 2008, 11:40:30 AM
Realistically can anything be done to stop top GAA players from playing in the AFL?
Short of paying them...no.
That Ricky Nixon is a crook.
Could be a way of bullying the GAA back into the International Rules 'game'.
Quote from: ziggysego on February 13, 2008, 01:39:06 PM
Could be a way of bullying the GAA back into the International Rules 'game'.
No chance ziggy. The AFL is a business and are perfectly entitled to scout for the best players in the country. The GAA dont offer them this opportunity
unadulterated Violence twice a year or the poaching of our best young talent, mmmm lovely choice.
Sure what can you do about it? We can hardly go checking passports at games can we? :D
If the New England Patriots offer Mark Vaughan $100,000 a year to kick field goals wide, we can't stop that either. Barring we start playing our games behind closed doors, and refusing to screen them, there's always going to be the risk that games like this will make contact with a few players every year.
C'est la vie.
Who is Ricky Nixon anyway? Can someone enlighten me pelase.
The only thing we can do is to scrap the international rules series for good
We could threathen the E.U. to vote no on the Treaty if they don't threathen to cut of trade with the convicts unless they haul in the AFL.
They fck with the GAA, we send them back to being a colonial backwater.
Don't fck with the Irish :D
The AFL are a massive threat to our organisation.. they plan to take our best talent before we see the best of them..
They should be seen as the enemy now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They have taken the 2 best prospective playmakers in Gaelic Football - Clarke (Down) and Hanley (Ros 8)), they seem to have a type of player that they go for, i.e. they dont go for the full-forward/corner-foward types
Quote from: thebandit on February 13, 2008, 05:12:15 PM
They have taken the 2 best prospective playmakers in Gaelic Football - Clarke (Down) and Hanley (Ros 8)), they seem to have a type of player that they go for, i.e. they dont go for the full-forward/corner-foward types
What are you basing that on?
Quote from: irunthev on February 13, 2008, 01:58:39 PM
Who is Ricky Nixon anyway? Can someone enlighten me pelase.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Nixon
Thanks
Thanks for the link - He does not appear to be someone you would want to deal with or hjave your son reprersented by!
Quote from: Aristotle Flynn on February 13, 2008, 11:47:46 AM
Why on earth would they need scouts in All 32 counties? I could do the Kilkenny scouts job from home.
And I'll do the Antrim job - from over here. :D :D :D
Are the AFL and Aussie Rules any bigger a threat to the Association than emigration was in terms of the loss of players before the Celtic Tiger? Indeed, what is likely to be the more pressing issue over the next few years - the AFL and Aussie Rules or the fact that more and more young people are travelling Down Under for the year long holiday and staying much more if they can get a visa?
The AFL should be free to scout anyone they want to. What gives anyone else the right to stand in the way of a young fella making an attempt at a career in professional sports if he and his family think it's worth a go?
Its simple lads.
if we go professional and pay the players, we wont have this problem.
(Joke) :-X before anyone takes my head off.
Ya we will, coz they will pay more, and Hanley a MAYOMAN NOT A SHEAPSTEALER.
J70 - where did anyone suggest "standing in the way" of young fellas. I don't think any sensible person thinks that's a viable or even a possible approach. But the GAA must address the problem. It's fine on a personal level for all of us to be happy that the lads involved get to pursue their ambitions. But that's not a reasonable basis for a GAA policy that will ensure our very best players are not lost to AFL on a systematic basis. I don't think our administrators would be doing their job of preserving the interests of the GAA if their only response to the drain of the very cream of our talent was "sure isn't it great to see the lads doing well in Australia".
The AFL has every right to seek out players with the potential talent to make it in Oz. What does the GAA offer any young lad with talent? Zilch.
QuoteWhat does the GAA offer any young lad with talent? Zilch.
Only if your measure reward in monetary terms. But if like me you consider the joy the GAA adds to your life as reward then the GAA offers much more than 'zilich'.
I love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
the gaa dont own any players. in fact most gaa players are unfortunately used, abused and then discarded. if any young players want to make it in australia then good luck to them.
Quote from: Zulu on February 14, 2008, 01:21:36 PM
QuoteWhat does the GAA offer any young lad with talent? Zilch.
Only if your measure reward in monetary terms. But if like me you consider the joy the GAA adds to your life as reward then the GAA offers much more than 'zilich'.
Well said.
Tell that to your buddies in Cork ;D
Quote from: Gnevin on February 14, 2008, 01:26:53 PM
I love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
Are u doing a niveng???
Quote from: Hardy on February 14, 2008, 11:49:44 AM
J70 - where did anyone suggest "standing in the way" of young fellas. I don't think any sensible person thinks that's a viable or even a possible approach. But the GAA must address the problem. It's fine on a personal level for all of us to be happy that the lads involved get to pursue their ambitions. But that's not a reasonable basis for a GAA policy that will ensure our very best players are not lost to AFL on a systematic basis. I don't think our administrators would be doing their job of preserving the interests of the GAA if their only response to the drain of the very cream of our talent was "sure isn't it great to see the lads doing well in Australia".
Well what do you propose they do? You can't bar the scouts from attending matches and you can't stop them contacting the players. Everyone is crying about grants, so what is there that the GAA can do to stop players going over there?
I don't have much to offer, I'm afraid. My post in this (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6667.60) thread is the best I could do.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 14, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 14, 2008, 01:26:53 PM
I love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
Are u doing a niveng???
What? Who?
Quote from: Gnevin on February 14, 2008, 04:05:00 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 14, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on February 14, 2008, 01:26:53 PM
I love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
Are u doing a niveng???
What? Who?
Have a look here... http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6741.msg245245#msg245245 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6741.msg245245#msg245245) ;D
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on February 14, 2008, 12:54:07 AM
Hanley a MAYOMAN NOT A SHEAPSTEALER.
He is not and never can be a Mayoman. >:(
He might have to play for them under GAA rules >:(but he is a 100% Rosman.
By the way we are called shEEpstealers.
QuoteI love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
While I accept we can't (and shouldn't) do anything to stop the drain of players to AR, I don't accept the above comparison at all. The players the Aussies are taking are some of the very best players we produce and the Aussies only want them because they excel at our game. I'm absolutely delighted that these lads can go and live a dream life as pro sportsmen in a great country but it is a worrying development for the future of our game. Of course football will survive and things will move on but I can't help but wonder about what these players would have brought to our game and the pieces of magic that we will never see.
I've said it before - young men want to be full time professional sportsmen, and throwing all the scholarships or other 'benefits' at them is not going to change the fact that young men want to be full time professional sportsmen.
If the GAA and it's members want to stop these young men becoming full time professional sportsmen in the AFL than the only way we can stop it, is to allow them to become full time professional sportsmen in the GAA - it really is as simple as that.
The issue is that no one (or at least not that many) in the GAA want to see full time professionals playing in the GAA, we can't have our cake and eat it too.
It's my opinion that there is nothing that can be done to stop this, the key words (if you hadn't already noticed!) are full time professionals and as an association we are long way off having those words used to describe our players
Quote from: Zulu on February 14, 2008, 09:33:27 PM
QuoteI love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
While I accept we can't (and shouldn't) do anything to stop the drain of players to AR, I don't accept the above comparison at all. The players the Aussies are taking are some of the very best players we produce and the Aussies only want them because they excel at our game. I'm absolutely delighted that these lads can go and live a dream life as pro sportsmen in a great country but it is a worrying development for the future of our game. Of course football will survive and things will move on but I can't help but wonder about what these players would have brought to our game and the pieces of magic that we will never see.
They are only the "best" because of the age/level they get to .We all know many great young fellahs who stopped playing at 15/16 when they had talent to burn or went to play soccer . The extra 2/3 years and playing at minor makes the lose seem greater
I wouldn't accept that Gnevin, all sports lose players to 'drink' and other sports/attractions, the difference here is that football and AR are very similar sports and a guy who excels in one is likely to excel in the other. We are basically developing prospective elite performers for another code and then when the cream of that talent reaches a stage where they are about to become the best players in the country the aussies step in. While I fully accept that there is nothing to be done about this I don't think that it is the same thing as losing players to drink, soccer or something else.
Quote from: Zulu on February 14, 2008, 10:32:22 PM
I wouldn't accept that Gnevin, all sports lose players to 'drink' and other sports/attractions, the difference here is that football and AR are very similar sports and a guy who excels in one is likely to excel in the other. We are basically developing prospective elite performers for another code and then when the cream of that talent reaches a stage where they are about to become the best players in the country the aussies step in. While I fully accept that there is nothing to be done about this I don't think that it is the same thing as losing players to drink, soccer or something else.
Its the same thing in my opinion and its been happening for a hundred years.
Quote from: irunthev on February 13, 2008, 01:58:39 PM
Who is Ricky Nixon anyway? Can someone enlighten me pelase.
Does this help? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Nixon
He is generally thought of as a bit of a gangster Down Under.
Ricky Nixon talking on Sportsound
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/default.stm
he mentioned that someone from Ireland called him up to give abuse, now lads theres no need for that kinda thing. Danny Murphy opposes the resumption of the IR series
QuoteI could do the Kilkenny scouts job from home.
Are ye telling us that none of the Kilkenny hurlers could be seen as a prospect?
Quote from: Gnevin on February 14, 2008, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 14, 2008, 09:33:27 PM
QuoteI love how the AFL taking 3/4 players are year is shocking yet lose more players to
xbox
soccer
rubgy
drugs
drink
speeding
every year
While I accept we can't (and shouldn't) do anything to stop the drain of players to AR, I don't accept the above comparison at all. The players the Aussies are taking are some of the very best players we produce and the Aussies only want them because they excel at our game. I'm absolutely delighted that these lads can go and live a dream life as pro sportsmen in a great country but it is a worrying development for the future of our game. Of course football will survive and things will move on but I can't help but wonder about what these players would have brought to our game and the pieces of magic that we will never see.
They are only the "best" because of the age/level they get to .We all know many great young fellas who stopped playing at 15/16 when they had talent to burn or went to play soccer . The extra 2/3 years and playing at minor makes the lose seem greater
We can't dismiss lightly the fact that AFL are intent on recruiting the cream of the crop. This process has accelerated this year because of the outstanding immediate impact of Martin Clarke of Down. While others have done very well (Kennelly) or reasonably well (O'Halpin), Clarke has been a sensation in Australia and now all the clubs are queuing up. The latest target is another exceptional young Down player Paul McComiskey who hasn't even played a full senior game yet (same with Clarke). No sport likes to lose any talent to another but we have opened the doors wide to losing our very best. We are one step away from using the resources and labour of GAA clubs up and down the country to provide a production line for a rival sport. Madness!!
What I find amazing is that the GAA are even considering a rerun of the Aussie/International Rules fiasco that should have been well and truly buried for all sorts of reasons not the least of which is that we are providing an invite to the carpetbaggers to come right in and rip us off. Unbelievable stuff. What any of this does in the name of promoting the GAA has always defeated me. It is now a crisis.
I couldn't agree more, Leo. The only possible justification I can see for the international series is if it comes with an agreement banning poaching by the Aussie clubs. If the AFL people want the international outlet enough, that could work. But a possible broken neck or worse for one of our players would be an unacceptable price to pay.
If the players don't want to play in the Compromise Rules and are worried about safety etc they won't play and their won't be a series - They obviously want to play and a lot of them play over and over so they seem fine with it so why should we want it stopped???
Leo - The AFL look for guys who wouldn't be playing in the Series and will be at Minor matches etc so there is nothing we can do about it...except possibly use the Compromise Rules.
Look, from what I can see a lot of AFL fans have nothing but contempt for the GAA. To them, Ireland is just a cheap source of players so the less we have to do with them the better. The new rules for IR make us look like a bunch of complete wimps and I'm f*cked if I'm going to go and watch this shambles of a game again. Let them take a few players every year, so what. If young lads want to head off to Oz, the best of luck to them. I'd rather that than having to listen to some neanderthal with corks hanging off his hat tell me that Australia have just beaten Ireland at gaelic football.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 20, 2008, 04:27:48 PM
If the players don't want to play in the Compromise Rules and are worried about safety etc they won't play and their won't be a series - They obviously want to play and a lot of them play over and over so they seem fine with it so why should we want it stopped???
Leo - The AFL look for guys who wouldn't be playing in the Series and will be at Minor matches etc so there is nothing we can do about it...except possibly use the Compromise Rules.
The players want it so it is good for the GAA? That might be alright in Cork but is no reason for continuing this charade. Most players I know like a couple of pints but that wouldnt justify making it an official GAA activity (or maybe it already is!). The players like the Railway Cup but everybody else has voted with their feet and said goodbye to it. The vast sums of Coac Cola money give oxygen to the aussie rules nonesense to our own game's detrimen and I suspect if Coca Cola weren't involved the powers that be would have lost interest a long time ago.
If the players want it then fine. But i haven't heard any of them recently claiming that- but if that's what they want then so be it. But for what its worth i think its a stupid bloody game best rendered to the dustbin. I have no desire to see hard working amateur players have their health put in danger by a bunch of Stupid Aussie planks who view the series as nothing more than a jolly up- and a chance to kick our players from one end of the field to the other. I'm really beginning to think Brennan hasn't a clue how to run this organisation.
QuoteWhat I find amazing is that the GAA are even considering a rerun of the Aussie/International Rules fiasco that should have been well and truly buried for all sorts of reasons not the least of which is that we are providing an invite to the carpetbaggers to come right in and rip us off. Unbelievable stuff. What any of this does in the name of promoting the GAA has always defeated me. It is now a crisis.
I was always a fan of the IR though if it ends I'll lose little sleep. However I don't think it should be ended because it is a shop window for our best players, the aussies can come and target our players regardless of whether the IR continues or not. If anything restarting the IR series gives us a bargining chip, however insignificant.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 20, 2008, 04:46:08 PM
Look, from what I can see a lot of AFL fans have nothing but contempt for the GAA. To them, Ireland is just a cheap source of players so the less we have to do with them the better. The new rules for IR make us look like a bunch of complete wimps and I'm f*cked if I'm going to go and watch this shambles of a game again. Let them take a few players every year, so what. If young lads want to head off to Oz, the best of luck to them. I'd rather that than having to listen to some neanderthal with corks hanging off his hat tell me that Australia have just beaten Ireland at gaelic football.
The same way the Irish have contempt for AFL etc.....Well to be honest some of our players are wimps....
The most embarassing thing from my point of view is that with 2/3 weeks training they can come over here and prove to be better at handpassing and kicking points with a Gaelic ball than our players - now that is embarrassing...
Handpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me. Anway, handpassing is a huge part of aussie rules. As for the kicking, they train to kick a ball for their forwards to catch (and get the mark). No point kicking an oval ball into space for a lad to run onto as the ball could go anywhere. A good pass in gaelic football isn't always aimed down the forwards throat. Likewise, a ball that bounces just before it reaches the forward is often easier to win than the ball which is aimed at his chest (allowing the defender to get the hand in). International rules is aussie rules with a round ball, not gaelic football with a tackle.
QuoteHandpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me.
Jinxy the rest of your post is very valid but you are well off the mark with the above IMO. It is shocking how poor many lads are at handpassing.
Very very doubtful the IR series will start, and it is obvious the GAA don't want it to.
Very clever work by the GAA to have proposed rule changes which the AFL clubs (ie not the AFL) will no support. That way when the series is finally put to bed, the GAA can say "well we tried our best".
There is no way an AFL club will release a player to play in a game where they could be sent off for doing something that is legal in AFL, and be suspended from real AFL matches (ie what they are paid for, and where the clubs make their money). The clubs will also not want any restrictions on their recruiting activities.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 20, 2008, 09:18:42 PM
Handpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me. Anway, handpassing is a huge part of aussie rules. As for the kicking, they train to kick a ball for their forwards to catch (and get the mark). No point kicking an oval ball into space for a lad to run onto as the ball could go anywhere. A good pass in gaelic football isn't always aimed down the forwards throat. Likewise, a ball that bounces just before it reaches the forward is often easier to win than the ball which is aimed at his chest (allowing the defender to get the hand in). International rules is aussie rules with a round ball, not gaelic football with a tackle.
Jinxy - If handpassing is so easy how come you rarely see an Irish player able to handpass over 5 yards and off either hand???? You kick the oval ball totally differently to a round ball as it is a straight legged kick rather than "an around the corner" kicking style as is used with the round ball......anyway their point scoring is practically as good as ours now so how do you explain that???
I see they're about to steal another one of the finest young prospects in the country...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7255939.stm
Quote from: AFS on February 20, 2008, 11:17:41 PM
I see they're about to steal another one of the finest young prospects in the country...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7255939.stm
What would you guys prefer?
That Aussie rules didn't exist and a young fella like this couldn't have the opportunity to pursue a career in professional sports?
Its not as if the game of gaelic football is going to die because a few lads decide to give Australia a go.
Or are the Aussies going to be starting expansion teams left, right and center filled with hundreds of Irish lads stolen away from gaelic football?
Quote from: Zulu on February 20, 2008, 09:26:32 PM
QuoteHandpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me.
Jinxy the rest of your post is very valid but you are well off the mark with the above IMO. It is shocking how poor many lads are at handpassing.
Ok, I was exaggerating. I still think handpassing the ball requires little or no skill and it drives me demented to see lads handpassing the ball over the bar from 20 yards out. If a fella is being coached half way properly and he still can't pass off both hands he may as well throw his hat at it.
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2008, 11:36:01 PM
Quote from: AFS on February 20, 2008, 11:17:41 PM
I see they're about to steal another one of the finest young prospects in the country...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7255939.stm
What would you guys prefer?
That Aussie rules didn't exist and a young fella like this couldn't have the opportunity to pursue a career in professional sports?
Its not as if the game of gaelic football is going to die because a few lads decide to give Australia a go.
Or are the Aussies going to be starting expansion teams left, right and center filled with hundreds of Irish lads stolen away from gaelic football?
No, gaelic football is not going to die but the quality is going to be seriously diminished if the AFL continue to plunder each county's
top young player every couple of years. If I was from Down i'd be seriously pissed cuz they've already lost what was probably going to be their flagship player for the next decade and now it seems that they're gonna lose their next best young fella.
I know purely in terms of numbers the drain is not really significant, but its the fact the they take the cream of the 17-20 age group each year. The AFL are taking our next generation of Maurice Fitzgeralds, Peter Canavans, Kieran McGeeneys, Pauric Joyces, Dara O'Sés, etc, etc. And what do we get in return???
Quote from: AFS on February 20, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2008, 11:36:01 PM
Quote from: AFS on February 20, 2008, 11:17:41 PM
I see they're about to steal another one of the finest young prospects in the country...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7255939.stm
What would you guys prefer?
That Aussie rules didn't exist and a young fella like this couldn't have the opportunity to pursue a career in professional sports?
Its not as if the game of gaelic football is going to die because a few lads decide to give Australia a go.
Or are the Aussies going to be starting expansion teams left, right and center filled with hundreds of Irish lads stolen away from gaelic football?
No, gaelic football is not going to die but the quality is going to be seriously diminished if the AFL continue to plunder each county's top young player every couple of years. If I was from Down i'd be seriously pissed cuz they've already lost what was probably going to be their flagship player for the next decade and now it seems that they're gonna lose their next best young fella.
I know purely in terms of numbers the drain is not really significant, but its the fact the they take the cream of the 17-20 age group each year. The AFL are taking our next generation of Maurice Fitzgeralds, Peter Canavans, Kieran McGeeneys, Pauric Joyces, Dara O'Sés, etc, etc. And what do we get in return???
Why should we get anything in return? What could we get in return? I stopped playing gaelic football when I was 18 because I preferred (and was better at) soccer. Was my club entitled to some sort of compensation for the loss of a player? What about all the other lads who quit? My club fields two adult teams most years, which represent the remnants of 20 or so years of training of players. Most clubs are the same.
On the one hand everyone is up in arms over the GPA, because, after all, everyone in the GAA is the same, from Dara O'Se down to the useless fat 40 yr old playing in nets for the third team. On the other, we're crying because we get nothing in return when we lose the elite player to a professional career, because that option isn't open to him in the GAA (and I'm not saying it should be). Either the elite player is the same as the hungover C team player or he isn't - you can't have it both ways.
And I'm not saying that Down people shouldn't regret the loss of players like that, but they've no right to feel cheated. These lads owe no more to the GAA than the rest of us who hung up our boots when we found something better. And if they owe nothing, I don't see how the Aussies can be expected to owe anything.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2008, 12:16:30 AM
Why should we get anything in return? What could we get in return? I stopped playing gaelic football when I was 18 because I preferred (and was better at) soccer. Was my club entitled to some sort of compensation for the loss of a player? What about all the other lads who quit? My club fields two adult teams most years, which represent the remnants of 20 or so years of training of players. Most clubs are the same.
On the one hand everyone is up in arms over the GPA, because, after all, everyone in the GAA is the same, from Dara O'Se down to the useless fat 40 yr old playing in nets for the third team. On the other, we're crying because we get nothing in return when we lose the elite player to a professional career, because that option isn't open to him in the GAA (and I'm not saying it should be). Either the elite player is the same as the hungover C team player or he isn't - you can't have it both ways.
And I'm not saying that Down people shouldn't regret the loss of players like that, but they've no right to feel cheated. These lads owe no more to the GAA than the rest of us who hung up our boots when we found something better. And if they owe nothing, I don't see how the Aussies can be expected to owe anything.
Fair enough, but shouldn't the lazy Aussie Scouts (something similar to our lazy journalists in the 6 counties - copyright Ian Sr) realise that not every young lad is a Martin Clarke in terms of talent - individually he's the best footballer that I've seen as a 17 or 18 year old. Clarke was courted by Collingwood over a 12-18 month period, after almost single handedly taking his school to consecutive MacRory Cup finals. Whilst I'm not au fait with the current approaches I'd consider that somewhat responsible rather than guys seemingly getting offered trials on what would be a willy nilly basis.
Quote from: tyrone86 on February 21, 2008, 12:37:50 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2008, 12:16:30 AM
Why should we get anything in return? What could we get in return? I stopped playing gaelic football when I was 18 because I preferred (and was better at) soccer. Was my club entitled to some sort of compensation for the loss of a player? What about all the other lads who quit? My club fields two adult teams most years, which represent the remnants of 20 or so years of training of players. Most clubs are the same.
On the one hand everyone is up in arms over the GPA, because, after all, everyone in the GAA is the same, from Dara O'Se down to the useless fat 40 yr old playing in nets for the third team. On the other, we're crying because we get nothing in return when we lose the elite player to a professional career, because that option isn't open to him in the GAA (and I'm not saying it should be). Either the elite player is the same as the hungover C team player or he isn't - you can't have it both ways.
And I'm not saying that Down people shouldn't regret the loss of players like that, but they've no right to feel cheated. These lads owe no more to the GAA than the rest of us who hung up our boots when we found something better. And if they owe nothing, I don't see how the Aussies can be expected to owe anything.
Fair enough, but shouldn't the lazy Aussie Scouts (something similar to our lazy journalists in the 6 counties - copyright Ian Sr) realise that not every young lad is a Martin Clarke in terms of talent - individually he's the best footballer that I've seen as a 17 or 18 year old. Clarke was courted by Collingwood over a 12-18 month period, after almost single handedly taking his school to consecutive MacRory Cup finals. Whilst I'm not au fait with the current approaches I'd consider that somewhat responsible rather than guys seemingly getting offered trials on what would be a willy nilly basis.
Of course, but its up to the player and his family to make the decision, not the GAA. You can't stop the AFL offering a young lad a trial. I guess they could organize to work with prospects a little in Ireland before bringing them over.
QuoteWhy should we get anything in return? What could we get in return? I stopped playing gaelic football when I was 18 because I preferred (and was better at) soccer. Was my club entitled to some sort of compensation for the loss of a player? What about all the other lads who quit? My club fields two adult teams most years, which represent the remnants of 20 or so years of training of players. Most clubs are the same.
On the one hand everyone is up in arms over the GPA, because, after all, everyone in the GAA is the same, from Dara O'Se down to the useless fat 40 yr old playing in nets for the third team. On the other, we're crying because we get nothing in return when we lose the elite player to a professional career, because that option isn't open to him in the GAA (and I'm not saying it should be). Either the elite player is the same as the hungover C team player or he isn't - you can't have it both ways.
And I'm not saying that Down people shouldn't regret the loss of players like that, but they've no right to feel cheated. These lads owe no more to the GAA than the rest of us who hung up our boots when we found something better. And if they owe nothing, I don't see how the Aussies can be expected to owe anything.
Well said. That post was dead on.
i cant understand why mccomiskey and these guys dont want to stay and play gaelic when there is the good chance that if they make the all ireland semi finals that they can recieve up to 2000 euro! (for a years work) but then again playing for your county is a special privilege that no one forces on you whilst playing in australia in front of at least 50,000 spectators and earning 2000 euro a week (i know its oz!) is the work of the devil. come on guys, surely you cannot be serious wondering why men jump at this chance. The gaa wonder what they can do to stop this poaching of their star players? well they can shut mark conway and jarlath burns up for a start! if the players start recieving financial aid of some sort or benefit, im not saying itll keep them here, but its a start. these old school gaa men (republicans) claim the gaa is the biggest amature organisation in the world, that would be hard........its about the only one left cos the rest have wised up and moved forward! who wants to attack me first??
I know and understand all those arguments re. can't blame the player for wanting a pro career, the GAA don't pay the players so aren't entitled to any payment, etc, etc. And I don't really feel angry about the situation (there's no valid reason to be I suppose) but I do feel very frustrated that we, as an organisation, are seemingly powerless against this talent drain.
Just a thought, it might be ridiculously impractical so feel free to shoot it down, but could the GAA put each of its members on token annual contracts with a wage of say €1 per year. This would mean that everyone is technically 'employed' by the GAA and so when the AFL come knocking the GAA would be entitled to demand some financial recompense for the loss of a player/employee. I'm not talking about holding players for ransom here, just demanding a significant enough fee so that AFL clubs maybe think twice about players who they are now getting for zilch. I think something around €50000 is reasonable enough.
Why would any member of the association feel they should sign up to such a token contract? from a young player's point of view, all that contract would do is reduce his chances of AFL clubs looking at him.
The most worrying thing i have noticed is that the possibility of getting looked at for afl has become a bigger and bigger carrot for young lads
There's no way anyone in their right mind would sign a token contract like that. The only way a player like Comiskey would stay is if he were getting similar wages in Ireland.This is maybe where the GPA are coming from. But can we afford to have 2000 elite athletes who get paid € 40k a year ??
Did anyone see the new Indian cricket league last night on TV where rich business men "buy" the services of a top foreign cricketer to play in a new Indian league ??? It was very interesting to say the least.
It should only be acceptable that our young talent be allowed to take up employment in Australia as a professional footballer if, and only if, any 17 or 18 year old could take up employment in any profession / trade in Australia. But they cannot. No Irishman aged 17 / 18, without a trade certificate or college certificate, can be issued an Australian work permit. Australian immigration will not allow it. Currently our youth can only visit with a 1 year holiday permit with restricted work conditions. So how are the AFL bypassing immigration? How are our young football talent getting special exemption by the Australian government? Surely the answer is for the GAA to get the Irish government to clearify the deal with the Australian government re issuing of work permits. Cut it off at the source?
I don't think Ozzie visas will be a problem. Most countries have a provision or special visas for sportspeople and musicians. In America i'm sure this is called the exceptional alien or something odd like that.
Quote from: western exile on February 21, 2008, 12:29:53 PM
It should only be acceptable that our young talent be allowed to take up employment in Australia as a professional footballer if, and only if, any 17 or 18 year old could take up employment in any profession / trade in Australia. But they cannot. No Irishman aged 17 / 18, without a trade certificate or college certificate, can be issued an Australian work permit. Australian immigration will not allow it. Currently our youth can only visit with a 1 year holiday permit with restricted work conditions. So how are the AFL bypassing immigration? How are our young football talent getting special exemption by the Australian government? Surely the answer is for the GAA to get the Irish government to clearify the deal with the Australian government re issuing of work permits. Cut it off at the source?
Quote from: western exile on February 21, 2008, 12:29:53 PM
It should only be acceptable that our young talent be allowed to take up employment in Australia as a professional footballer if, and only if, any 17 or 18 year old could take up employment in any profession / trade in Australia. But they cannot. No Irishman aged 17 / 18, without a trade certificate or college certificate, can be issued an Australian work permit. Australian immigration will not allow it. Currently our youth can only visit with a 1 year holiday permit with restricted work conditions. So how are the AFL bypassing immigration? How are our young football talent getting special exemption by the Australian government? Surely the answer is for the GAA to get the Irish government to clearify the deal with the Australian government re issuing of work permits. Cut it off at the source?
Its like a skilled visa which an awful lot of Irish people use
Quote from: Jinxy on February 20, 2008, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 20, 2008, 09:26:32 PM
QuoteHandpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me.
Jinxy the rest of your post is very valid but you are well off the mark with the above IMO. It is shocking how poor many lads are at handpassing.
Ok, I was exaggerating. I still think handpassing the ball requires little or no skill and it drives me demented to see lads handpassing the ball over the bar from 20 yards out. If a fella is being coached half way properly and he still can't pass off both hands he may as well throw his hat at it.
Why does it drive you demented?
There will ALWAYS be young lads who want to go and play soccer, AFL, ugby, basketball etc etc - no problem - let them go - they might come back and be better players and help the club.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 21, 2008, 12:45:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on February 20, 2008, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 20, 2008, 09:26:32 PM
QuoteHandpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me.
Jinxy the rest of your post is very valid but you are well off the mark with the above IMO. It is shocking how poor many lads are at handpassing.
Ok, I was exaggerating. I still think handpassing the ball requires little or no skill and it drives me demented to see lads handpassing the ball over the bar from 20 yards out. If a fella is being coached half way properly and he still can't pass off both hands he may as well throw his hat at it.
Why does it drive you demented?
Because it requires no skill. You could pull someone out of the hogan stand and chances are they could do it just as well. It's not f*cking volleyball. Ever watch some of the old Dublin-Kerry games on TG4 when they were allowed handpass the ball straight to the net? It looked ridiculous. The handpassed point should be outlawed. There you go.
I think it is ridiculous that people are complaining about the people from the AFL coming in and "stealing" our talent. If a young player from Ireland has the ability to earn his living by doing something that he enjoys then who are we to stop them. These people are offering young people the chance of a lifetime - and a lot more than they are offered by the GAA. To me the only people who are against this are supporters/ who don't want to see their best players taken away. They have only the interest of their club/county at heart and are not thinking of the player at all. Put yourselves in the shoes of a player who has just been offered a trial by an AFL club - what would you want to do? Would you want the fat cats in the GAA stopping these scouts coming over to see you play and thus ruining your chance at your dream job. Stop being selfish people!!!
Quote from: western exile on February 21, 2008, 12:29:53 PM
It should only be acceptable that our young talent be allowed to take up employment in Australia as a professional footballer if, and only if, any 17 or 18 year old could take up employment in any profession / trade in Australia. But they cannot. No Irishman aged 17 / 18, without a trade certificate or college certificate, can be issued an Australian work permit. Australian immigration will not allow it. Currently our youth can only visit with a 1 year holiday permit with restricted work conditions. So how are the AFL bypassing immigration? How are our young football talent getting special exemption by the Australian government? Surely the answer is for the GAA to get the Irish government to clearify the deal with the Australian government re issuing of work permits. Cut it off at the source?
What right have the Irish government to jump in and encourage the Aussies to stop whatever exemptions they grant to allow young fellas to go over there to play? If the Aussies allow them in, that's their business - it's got nothing to do with the Irish government.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 21, 2008, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 21, 2008, 12:45:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on February 20, 2008, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 20, 2008, 09:26:32 PM
QuoteHandpassing is a skill that could be acquired with a decent afternoons training if you ask me.
Jinxy the rest of your post is very valid but you are well off the mark with the above IMO. It is shocking how poor many lads are at handpassing.
Ok, I was exaggerating. I still think handpassing the ball requires little or no skill and it drives me demented to see lads handpassing the ball over the bar from 20 yards out. If a fella is being coached half way properly and he still can't pass off both hands he may as well throw his hat at it.
Why does it drive you demented?
Because it requires no skill. You could pull someone out of the hogan stand and chances are they could do it just as well. It's not f*cking volleyball. Ever watch some of the old Dublin-Kerry games on TG4 when they were allowed handpass the ball straight to the net? It looked ridiculous. The handpassed point should be outlawed. There you go.
Well kicking a ball over the bar from 20 yards in front requires no skill either. If you think that is too easy why don't you want the handpass abolished all together then?
QuoteWell kicking a ball over the bar from 20 yards in front requires no skill either. If you think that is too easy why don't you want the handpass abolished all together then?
Jesus, either some of you lads never played football, were footballing genius' or don't like football very much, but both handpassing and kicking a point from 20ish yards does require a decent level of skill. The next time you see an IC footballer kick a ball wide from 20 yards won't be the first. Especially when they are running at the goal at speed, I seem to remember Shane Ryan doing so in Croke Park 2/3 years ago.
So the lesson is, if you can't kick properly just fist it over.
Quote from: Zulu on February 21, 2008, 02:41:34 PM
QuoteWell kicking a ball over the bar from 20 yards in front requires no skill either. If you think that is too easy why don't you want the handpass abolished all together then?
Jesus, either some of you lads never played football, were footballing genius' or don't like football very much, but both handpassing and kicking a point from 20ish yards does require a decent level of skill. The next time you see an IC footballer kick a ball wide from 20 yards won't be the first. Especially when they are running at the goal at speed, I seem to remember Shane Ryan doing so in Croke Park 2/3 years ago.
Shane Ryan as much as i admire him , his performance levels , what he brings to the Dublin team could kick a ball wide from a yard out
Emerging Down football talent Paul McComiskey has attracted interest from Aussie Rules side Brisbane Lions.
The Queens University student is part of Ross Carr's senior football squad and played alongside fellow countyman (and Aussie Rules success story) Martin Clarke on the Down minor side that emphatically won the 2005 All-Ireland.
The player has been invited to Brisbane for trials and would be a massive loss to the Mourne County were he to pursue a playing career down under.
In another blow to Ulster football, Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney has been invited for a two-week trial with Sydney Swans.
The prospect of a talent drain to the Australian code is angering a lot of gaels, particularly with clubs being asked to vote on a resumption of the International Rules series.
Quote from: Zulu on February 21, 2008, 02:41:34 PM
QuoteWell kicking a ball over the bar from 20 yards in front requires no skill either. If you think that is too easy why don't you want the handpass abolished all together then?
Jesus, either some of you lads never played football, were footballing genius' or don't like football very much, but both handpassing and kicking a point from 20ish yards does require a decent level of skill. The next time you see an IC footballer kick a ball wide from 20 yards won't be the first. Especially when they are running at the goal at speed, I seem to remember Shane Ryan doing so in Croke Park 2/3 years ago.
Well IC players shouldn't be kicking widers from 20 yards out unless under extreme pressure and probably wouldn't if they spent more time training and practicing kicking at a younger age than just getting fit
Someone should start up an aussie rules team based in melbourne made up entirely of Gaa players, then the players play for 2 or 3 seasons before returning to their native county for the rest of their careers.
This way all top GAA players can live the life of a professional (granted for a limited time) and we would retain the best of our talent in this country.
I would imagine a top class aussie rules side made up entirely of irish players would be very marketable in Oz.
I think some of the people on here are at the very least short sighted if they think that losing these players isnt going to do the gaa any harm. Surely any gaa man wants the best for the organisation, thats certianly what I want. Losing your very best players every year is a disaster for the organisation. As Ive said before the difference between aussie rules and soccer/rugby is that the aussie's are specifically targeting these players because of their gaa background and they are being lost just as they are about to become potential stars. It certainly sparks of pure ignorance from the aussies who have built up a long standing relationship with the gaa (and come from a similar ameteur background) to now turn round and stick their 2 fingers up and take the gaa's best players causing the association harm.
People can say thats is only a few players but guys like Marty Clarke and Paul McComiskey dont grow on tree's. You've got to remember its guys like this who can produce top quality performances that are a huge driving force behind selling our games to the youth of Ireland. Look at the impact that the likes of McGeeney and Canavan have had in their cunties helping to promote the gaa to a whole new generation. Tyrone football would be a lot worse of if it hadnt had the likes of Canavan, McKenna,Stevie O'Neill etc and Id doubt the interest levels would be as high amoung the youth without these guys. Yes its a great opportunity for the individual but I tend to look at it more as a general problem which needs to be addressed.
The issue also appears to be very short sighted by the Aussies. They are getting a free ride here at great young talent but how must their own young players be feeling about the hole thing. They are denying their own youth the chance to play their games at the top level and instead replacing them with guys who have little or no love for the game.
Quote from: stiffler on February 21, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
Someone should start up an aussie rules team based in melbourne made up entirely of Gaa players, then the players play for 2 or 3 seasons before returning to their native county for the rest of their careers.
This way all top GAA players can live the life of a professional (granted for a limited time) and we would retain the best of our talent in this country.
I would imagine a top class aussie rules side made up entirely of irish players would be very marketable in Oz.
Now come on, they're already planning to expand from 16 to 18 teams in the next couple of years which will be bad enough for us without you give them ideas like this ;)
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on February 21, 2008, 06:40:39 PM
I think some of the people on here are at the very least short sighted if they think that losing these players isnt going to do the gaa any harm. Surely any gaa man wants the best for the organisation, thats certianly what I want. Losing your very best players every year is a disaster for the organisation. As Ive said before the difference between aussie rules and soccer/rugby is that the aussie's are specifically targeting these players because of their gaa background and they are being lost just as they are about to become potential stars. It certainly sparks of pure ignorance from the aussies who have built up a long standing relationship with the gaa (and come from a similar ameteur background) to now turn round and stick their 2 fingers up and take the gaa's best players causing the association harm.
People can say thats is only a few players but guys like Marty Clarke and Paul McComiskey dont grow on tree's. You've got to remember its guys like this who can produce top quality performances that are a huge driving force behind selling our games to the youth of Ireland. Look at the impact that the likes of McGeeney and Canavan have had in their cunties helping to promote the gaa to a whole new generation. Tyrone football would be a lot worse of if it hadnt had the likes of Canavan, McKenna,Stevie O'Neill etc and Id doubt the interest levels would be as high amoung the youth without these guys. Yes its a great opportunity for the individual but I tend to look at it more as a general problem which needs to be addressed.
The issue also appears to be very short sighted by the Aussies. They are getting a free ride here at great young talent but how must their own young players be feeling about the hole thing. They are denying their own youth the chance to play their games at the top level and instead replacing them with guys who have little or no love for the game.
Who is saying that the loss of potentially first-rate players isn't regrettable? All I'm personally saying is that there is nothing that can or should be done to stand in a player's way, if that is what he and his family think is right. And if we do lose a few players, so what? There are about 1000 players on senior county football squads - the game isn't going to collapse because a few leave for Aussie Rules any more than it has been collapsing from seepage to soccer or career commitments.
there are about 10 irish players playing in oz, some of them will stay, some will come home after having a great experience and may pass on some of what they learnt down under when they come back. and heres another one some of the ones that make it there may well have come to nothing here. to read some of the posts here you'd swear gaelic football was going to die because of the afl. get a grip ffs
If their were only 10 irish players playing their at any one time the gaa would probably cope (although you'd lose some real star players). However the aussie clubs seem to have adopted a new attitude to Ireland. It certainly looks like 4-6 of the best young players in Ireland could be recruited every year. There also looks to be greater effort being put in to make sure they stay. Imagine if in the last 10-15 years McGeeney, Tohill (and stook at it), Canavan, Joyce, Giles and Dara O'Se had went one year and they were followed the next by say McDermott, Whelan, McConville, McDonald, Fitzgerald and Fay and they were followed the next by another 6, in my opinion gaelic games would be a lot worse of.
As I said its players of this quality that really sell our games to the youth and people not traditionally from gaa backgrounds. The likes of Marty Clarke and McComiskey could have been a god send in terms of bringing back some glory to Down football, which would undoubtly make it easier to motivate young players in the county. The talk of the scouts could lead to even bigger number being recruited though I do think it has been exaggerated.
Assuming what you are saying comes to pass Tyrone Dreamer, what can be done about it? Its a free country and these lads can follow whatever career path they want, just like the rest of us.
if tiger woods didn't exist in golf the media would have phil mickelson on the pedestal hes on now. my point been gaa is above any individual guys...
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23237583-23211,00.html
Irish plunder plan rejected
By Darryl Timms
February 19, 2008
AN AMBITIOUS plan to establish a recruiting network in Ireland has not received AFL support.
While AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou backs the Irish coming to Australia, the league is opposed to player manager Ricky Nixon's plan.
Nixon wants scouts in Ireland's 32 counties, who would report to a co-ordinator. The players, aged 14 to 20, would be put in a central database for the league to access for an annual fee of about $30,000.
Nixon's plan comes as the AFL and the Gaelic Athletic Association met in Dubai this month about resurrecting the International Rules Series, which Ireland abandoned after a violent second Test in Dublin in 2006.
Demetriou will make a recommendation on the future of the series at next month's commission meeting.
Irish newspapers have reported the series will go ahead in Australia in October.
Demetriou said the Irish understood why some of their players came to Australia.
"I do think we can help the GAA in providing some framework that can assist them, so we don't have people over there who are raiding their clubs and counties and promising heaven and earth to these young lads to come over," he said.
Demetriou said that of 50 Gaelic players who come here, only one or two might make it.
Taken from today's independent
By Colm Keys
Wednesday February 27 2008
THE former AFL player who wants to set up a scouting network across Ireland has suggested compensating GAA clubs who lose players.
Ricky Nelson, whose plans were revealed last week, intends setting up the network to track the progress of talented young GAA players who could fit the AFL profile.
Nelson is keen to formalise his network with AFL and GAA approval to bring order to what he feels is currently a completely chaotic recruitment process.
"It is certainly my intention to make sure that the GAA and the AFL are across everything that we are doing. I'd prefer to finalise what we're doing before we speak to them rather than speak to them ad hoc," he said.
"At the moment it's unorganised. There are 16 different networks touring the country willy nilly. What's far better would be to have one central network that has got people who are based in Ireland and know how the system works.
"We'll just be a central body, an information-providing service that gives profiles on players and test results," said an enthusiastic Nelson.
Nelson intends to do everything up front and has suggested "benefits" for clubs who lose players.
The GAA president Nickey Brennan said last year that this was one avenue he would be exploring.
If the clubs are going to get compensation (though I still can't work why the Aussies should pay for something they can get for free) than we might as well go for broke and go full time professional in the GAA. I cannot see the point of having our premier young players striving to get recognised by a scout for AFL clubs, it will be like young fellas in soccer hoping someone from an English club invites them over for a trial
" We are one step away from using the resources and labour of GAA clubs up and down the country to provide a production line for a rival sport. "
I'm taking the liberty of repeating this from my previous post because I thought it would open up a debate on the obvious next major issue for the GAA.
This is the scenario:
The more decent young footballers like Mc Comiskey are recruited to Aussie, the more those who come behind will see thir career goal in that direction rather than All-Ireland medlas.
And the more that happens, the more the club coaches and other volunteers will question why they should allow massive club and community resources to be utilised to prepare such young players for another Foreign game in a foreign field.
Do I have to spell the rest of it out?
I'm not saying what the answers are but surely this should now be a national discussion about an impending crisis.
And again....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7267576.stm
And there are still people out there that don't believe this is seriously hurting our game. :-\
The previous poster is right, we are fast becoming an AFL feeder league.
I must say I feel a sense of anger towards the aussies. They came from a similar ameteur background and must appreciate the difficulty therefore in competing with professional sports. They also built up a relationship with the gaa for over 20 years but now feel they can treat it as a "production line" to enhance their own games at the expense of the gaa, it stinks of aussie arrogance. People keep pointing to losing players to other sports but I dont see scouts from other sports attending our games up and down the country to see what players they can get. The gaa has to find away to prevent our best young players leaving our games. Idea'sa are needed and fast.
Odds on these recruiter types keep a close eye on this and other boards. We'll have to work out a system of blinks and whistles to communicate safely.
the only way to keep them is pay them some people might not like it but its the only answer
Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2008, 05:32:03 PM
And again....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7267576.stm
And there are still people out there that don't believe this is seriously hurting our game. :-\
The previous poster is right, we are fast becoming an AFL feeder league.
Let's assume for a minute (AGAIN) that you are correct - what will we or what can we do about it?
We sit here and cry about it all day, but short of placing restrictions on the freedom of young fellas to pursue their chosen careers, there is nothing we can do except wish them well. As has been said a number of times before on this thread, you can't insist on an amateur and equal basis for all levels of gaelic games on the one hand and then bitch and moan when the better players decide to try the professional path in another sport on the other.
I've been making the point for a long while that clubs should be compensated if they lose a player - The Aussies now realise that this is in their interests to keep us onside.
Quote from: orangeman on February 28, 2008, 12:02:46 AM
I've been making the point for a long while that clubs should be compensated if they lose a player - The Aussies now realise that this is in their interests to keep us onside.
As in monetary compensation? Players will then have a value measurable in euros?
Or whatever - soccer clubs get compensated - why not gaelic clubs ?
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2008, 12:15:57 AM
Quote from: orangeman on February 28, 2008, 12:02:46 AM
I've been making the point for a long while that clubs should be compensated if they lose a player - The Aussies now realise that this is in their interests to keep us onside.
As in monetary compensation? Players will then have a value measurable in euros?
If there was compensation it could be equal to the amount spent on nurturing the player from underage up, I know that would be difficult to gauge but some sort of standard figure could be decided by an arbitration committee.
So what about the lad who leaves to play soccer or rugby? Why single out Aussie Rules?
Many of those skills are transferable. I can think of at least two potentially excellent players Donegal lost when they joined Celtic in their late teens.
And the elite players are either the same as everyone else, or they are not. Attaching a financial value to them would seem to suggest that they are not.
The point I'm making in that compensation wouldn't be given as a value on the player depending on how good they are (as in soccer) but a standard value for all. I accept its totally unenforceable, it would have to be a goodwill gesture from the AFL or clubs concerned.
Quote from: Rav67 on February 28, 2008, 12:49:19 AM
The point I'm making in that compensation wouldn't be given as a value on the player depending on how good they are (as in soccer) but a standard value for all. I accept its totally unenforceable, it would have to be a goodwill gesture from the AFL or clubs concerned.
Jesus wept - I'm blue in the face saying this. The minute one penny is given to a club in compensation for a young player any argument against paying the whole Inter County scene (including transfer fees, agents etc) is lost.
If you argue for clubs getting compensation from AFL clubs you are therefore in favour of introducing full time professionalism into the GAA wethere you realise it or not.
I can see it now, Sean O'Brien (fictional 20 year old from Donegal)
"So Sean, why have you decided on the big move to Dublin, ' well I'm a Donegal man at heart, always will be but when these opportunities come along you have to grab them with both hands, we only have a certain shelf life in this game and I really want to measure myself against the best that's out there and I can't really do that playing in Premiership 3 with my home county'
>:( >:(
Orangeman - are you prepared to sell the GAA's soul so a handful of clubs can get a couple of thousand Euro for one player?
Really there is no way a compensation schme can be put in place. If a GAA player chooses not to register with hi sclub, there is no connection - he is free to do what he wants.
Tyrone Dreamer mentioned a common amateur background - that doesn't exist. Aussie Rules has been at least semi-pro for 100 years. Even players in country and suburban leagues get paid - not living wage but 10 grand or so.
The big difference in mindset seems to be around the "volunteers". You guys seem to see players from your clubs moving on as a bad thing, and a reason not to volunteer, Here it is the exact opposite - whether in Aussie rules, rugby, rugby league, soccer or cricket. Our volunteers see their role as to preparing players to move on to better and bigger things. It is a source of pride to have a player leave. Many clubs only field teams up to Under 17 level, with the expectation that players will move on.
Quote from: Rav67 on February 28, 2008, 12:49:19 AM
The point I'm making in that compensation wouldn't be given as a value on the player depending on how good they are (as in soccer) but a standard value for all. I accept its totally unenforceable, it would have to be a goodwill gesture from the AFL or clubs concerned.
I wasn't talking about value based on ability - I was talking about the attachment of any financial value to the players (or the effort of the coaches) at all. Either the GAA is all about voluntary effort or it isn't.
And I'm sorry, but I just cannot see the logic in singling out the Aussies when no one else will be expected to compensate clubs for their efforts. The effort is the same whether the player is useless or a potential star. The end result for the GAA is the same, whether the player is lost to Aussie Rules, soccer, work, emigration or the pub.
Donegal have lost the services of Brendan Devenney for several periods because he chose to take advantage of the opportunity to earn a few euro playing soccer in the League of Ireland and the Irish League. Should Eunan's and the Donegal county board have received something for that? After all, the efforts of the coaching staffs of his club and county contributed to his development into a top class athlete.
I've been away fora few days so I'm surprised that theres been no comments on the decisions by the Antrim & Down County Boards to mandate their delegates to vote againsdt renewal of rhe International Rules series. According to the the Irish News on Wednesday there was little if any discussion of the issues involved and it appears to have been a kneejerk reaction in both counties.
While they have the democratic right to do so surely some consideration of the pros and cons was called for. In the absense of any one can only conclude that they are happy to allow AFL clubs open season on young GAA playrers without any constraints or rules.
If there is to be any control or ground rules surrounding recruitment surely contact must be maintained with the governing body of ASussie Rules and this can opnly be done through the IR series.
I see Derry's great new hope is more than likely away too :-\
Apparently we should be 'proud' that our sportsmen are deemed capable of playing this sport...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7294963.stm
Sayonara to another future star of our game :(
http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/04/GAA-Ryan-approached-by-AFL-agent/
Quote from: AFS on March 14, 2008, 05:43:55 AM
I see Derry's great new hope is more than likely away too :-\
Apparently we should be 'proud' that our sportsmen are deemed capable of playing this sport...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7294963.stm
Sayonara to another future star of our game :(
Please oh please oh please let Jimmy be off to Fremantle, and NOT West Coast. Please oh please oh please.
Seems the Swans have been talking to Kielt. :(
seemingly the camps are being held this week and the end of last week....
the players are down in UL at the moment
all of the best underage talent in ireland being scouted right under our noses and nothing been done the GAA are doing nothing about it!!
Quote from: mattockranger on July 07, 2008, 11:24:19 AM
seemingly the camps are being held this week and the end of last week....
the players are down in UL at the moment
all of the best underage talent in ireland being scouted right under our noses and nothing been done the GAA are doing nothing about it!!
I'm going down to the Arena right now with a hurl to beat that Nixon langer. Who's with me? :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 07, 2008, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: mattockranger on July 07, 2008, 11:24:19 AM
seemingly the camps are being held this week and the end of last week....
the players are down in UL at the moment
all of the best underage talent in ireland being scouted right under our noses and nothing been done the GAA are doing nothing about it!!
I'm going down to the Arena right now with a hurl to beat that Nixon langer. Who's with me? :D
The Field part II :D
what can they do?
Is there anyone here who would turn down the opportunity of potentially (and its only potentially) of earning a few million, in a country where the sun shines and not have to join the 7am rush every weekday. There isn't anyone here who wouldn't give it a shot. provided the conditions are good and they are well looked after, i'd give it a go for 2 years. if it didn't work out , i'd go back home. most people do 12 months travelling anyway.
Its all very well people here being all self-righteous about it, but what can the Gaa do about it? The agents are watching the matches here anyway, the IR rules is irrelevent at this stage as its a shite game and they are now picking guys striaght from Gaelci Football. We can abolish the u17 series which we should do, but don't think thats going to stop players trying their luck. The reality is 95% of people here would do exactly the same if given the opportunity.
That's true. I think there's nothing we can do about it, and we just have to wish the lads well when they leave, and welcome them back when they return. There'll always be others to fill the jersey in the meantime, and it's not as if the AFL is setting up a rival league here and poaching 4 or 5 hundred players.
Rugby and Soccer probably take more of our potential starlets than the AFL ever will.
I don't agree at all lads. How many TOP GAA players have been lost to rugby or soccer in the whole history of the game? A few at most, in 100-odd years. The difference is the AFL is looking to poach our VERY TOP youngsters and this threatens to turn the GAA as it relates to Australia into the equivalent of the League of Ireland as it relates to English soccer.
I don't have a solution, but that's not the same as saying it's not a problem. And the question of whether any young lad wouldn't jump at the chance is irrelevant. I would have myself, probably. But a shake of the head and a general consensus that "sure isn't it great for the young lads" is no basis for formulating a GAA policy to deal with a major crisis.
The AFL lads are poaching fellas who are on county minor teams. The Rugby and Soccer are getting lads in school before they can become 'top' players. The nett result is the same.
I always give this example. In 1982, when Offaly won the All Ireland, we had 3 brothers (the Lowrys) from Ferbane on the team. Leo Grogan, Tony McTeague and others before them, and a host of lads since then, at all levels.
Rugby came into our school when I was in Leaving Cert. I played in the first ever game there. About 4 years ago, our school won the Connacht Senior Schools Rugby, and have appeared in at least one other final since.
At the moment, we have 1 player on the panel of the Offaly senior footballers. We have 2 or 3 ex-pupils playing with Connacht Rugby at various levels, and have had 4 I think, capped for Ireland at various levels. None of those 4 have played minor for Offaly, because they had been sucked into the rugby at that stage. Who knows whether they'd have been 'big' names, but the guess is that at least one or two of them would be playing senior for Ferbane (at least).
but what policy can they devise hardy in an amateur organisation? The only way to prevent it is to offer a similar solution which is something we don't want. I'd prefer to see them at home but a professional sport will always win over an amateur one when push comes to shove.
Only really kennelly,clarke and begley have been lost. Setanta wasn't playing football anyway, no guarantee that brendan murphy,pierce hanley and zac tuohy wil make it and they could be back playing for their county within 2 years. I can name 5/6 players who didn't make it due to home sickness or lack of adaption. but the media never report that. For every one that makes it , 3 won't. only the elite class could adapt to game where their competitors have a 20 year head start. Of that elite group perhaps one a season will cut it. Clarke,begley and kennelly are exceptions. the more that go over, the more that will fail.
What we must prevent is the aussies setting up training camps/schools here at a young age, then i would really be worried.
over the course of 7-8 years with sponsorship the top guys do make a few million. kennelly for instance is already in that bracket.
thats my point exactly how many guys will actually make it after 2 years and get a pro contract. minimal. Most guys take a year out anyway to travel now. a lot of these guys will be back playing with their counties in a couple of years. I agree on the injuries , you have to be lucky as well, even kennelly is getting hit now with injuries.
I see from the Melborne daily The Age that the CEO of Collingwood is on his way to Dublin for talks with the GAA and various clubs 'sic' with a view to building realation ships and witha desire to be seen as doing more then just poaching players. Apparently they are still keen on organising a game against good opposition in November ( Do they know what its like here at that time of year?). I'd say the Dubs in Croke Park is the most likely if anything can be arranged.
Their Club President is a man called McGuire and his mother is from Boyle in Roscommon. He is very keen on having good realations with the GAA and was believed to have been very unhappy with what happened the last time. Given the way Clarke & Dyas have been looked after and so well treated with regards to coaching etc they seem one of the better run clubs.
Reasonable points, AZ and Indiana. Maybe you're both right and I'm wrong and I hope that's the case. But I still see a huge difference between kids choosing their sport based on a combination of any number of factors and a (truly) foreign sport setting up structures to raid our sport systematically for the cream of players already nurtured and developed to a standard of excellence by our clubs. And all without any compensation to our sport (though compensation is not the core issue and I wouldn't succumb to the Aussie poaching just because they offered a few bob).
How can that be ignored and how can it be comparable to youngsters of 9 to 12 deciding to play soccer because of the hype on TV, the fact that their friends are playing, etc.? Even at that, nobody would seriously suggest that the GAA should decline to compete with soccer and just let kids drift off in their droves. We don't. We compete in every community – not well enough, in my opinion, but that's another argument. Yet we seem content to shrug at the Aussie threat and say "what harm?".
I also don't agree with the contention that it's not a threat because only a few make it. Only a few have tried it. A high percentage of those have made it. Much higher, in my opinion than the percentage of Irish lads who make it in English soccer. I must emphasise - these are the already fairly well proven TOP PLAYERS of the future, not kids who may or may not be potentially good players.
The key point is that the numbers are now threatening to soar. It was a few in ten years. Then a few a year. Last year, there must have been a dozen who went on trials, or at least were offered one. Now they're setting up dedicated poaching structures almost within our game. It's not far off the soccer idea of academies and League of Ireland clubs being affiliated to English soccer clubs. And I'm sorry, but I reject the suggestion that we should be happy to let it happen because the lads who don't make it will come back. Is top-level Gaelic football now to become a game for lads who couldn't make it in professional sport?
Again, my argument flounders when I'm asked what I propose to do about it. I don't know, so I suppose that makes me look like a crank, raging at the weather or something. But all I know is we should at least, as an organisation, give the issue some attention. That way at least there's a prospect that smarter people than me will come up with a solution.
I agree with all you have written there hardy. as i was reading i was preparing the question, how can we stop it? personally i can't come up with anything to address the situation but agree that the GAA should have some sort of subcommittee tasked with coming up with something. they have subcommittees for everything else and this is a fundamental problem i believe.
i began thinking along the lines of provincial acadamies (i suppose SINI in belfast is an example) for the cream of our 16/17 year olds offering the best facilities, advice and support for their development but the the issue is the end product. lads go to australia chasing the dream of being a professional sportsman, not for the love of aussie rules. provincial acadamies or anything similar may offer short term status and assistance to young players but there is no carrot at the end so even this cannot compete with the promise of a professional contract. any academy structure would simply end up doing the scouting development for the aussies.
You're right Uladh - lads want to be professional sportsmen. The only way we can stop this is by offering the same opportunities in our own games.
A High percentage of the elite class have made it but
Bernie Collins,Kevin Devine, Nicholas Walsh, Brendan Quigley were all star minors , none of them for various reasons lasted long-term over there. The media don't report that though. The reality is players are on buttons for the first 2 years and its only if you're awarded a pro contract playing regularly that you'll make a bit of cash as the cost of living over there is a lot lower than here. The scouts are coming over here and promoting this sport as if its the Premiership, the reality is i couldn't believe how minority it was in places like Sydney where rugby league is king.
A lot will depend on how hanley, tuohy and murphy get on . if all of them cut it then i think we can start to get worried. BUt at the moment i'm not as concerned as everybody else -yet.
The GAA are always going to struggle to hold on to its top underage talent until they start showing they care about the player's welfare.
There is no proper games structure for underage players. In May/June in some counties there is a punishing scedule of games, despite it being the exam season. Then in summer months some young lads have no games at all.
In soccer and rugby there is a proper structure for the season. Games on a regular basis and rearly changed meaning that things like family holidays can be easily planned.
The AFL gives a player the opportunity to go an play in the proper training and games environment (providing they make it of course). At home our top players can be playing 2-3 games a week for school/college and club, with very little time for quality coaching and development
The GAA should stop worrying about money from backdoor games and start promoting and organising our games better so that our top 16/17/18 year olds have a better chance of sticking at our games rather than being on the scrapheap (injury/loss of enthuiasm) by the time they are 23/24
Any views on this?
Quote from: stephenite on July 08, 2008, 10:50:54 AM
You're right Uladh - lads want to be professional sportsmen. The only way we can stop this is by offering the same opportunities in our own games.
Agreed - but how ?
Quote from: orangeman on July 08, 2008, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: stephenite on July 08, 2008, 10:50:54 AM
You're right Uladh - lads want to be professional sportsmen. The only way we can stop this is by offering the same opportunities in our own games.
Agreed - but how ?
GAA goes professional - only way we can stop lads that want to be pro's going elsewhere
Agreed robertemmet. I don't think it's going to make the difference in a young lad's decision about whether to go to Australia for a professional contract. But it definitely is something we have to fix, because it's right in itself and because, in my opinion, it's the main disadvantage we are inflicting on ourselves in our competition with rugby and soccer for young players.
Always remember that there are some problems to which thereare no solutions and this may be one! The best we can hope for is that the GAA & AFL set down some sort of code of conduct by which agents/recruiters act in an effort to stop exploition of young lads and to insure that the clubs they go to treat them properly. It appears that the like of the Lions, Swans and Collingwood do so and we should welcome contact with the likes of these rather then putting our heads in our hands and crying 'Woe woe were all doomed,I say. Doomed!'
Dependng on how many players we're going to lose maybe the gaa has to consider some form of compensation to our best young players to keep them in our games. One option is decent grants for university students but other initiatives would have to be considered including more full time coaching posts with decent pay which would keep the players happy and help promote the games to children. With a lack of teachers willing to give up time to promote gaa in schools I think this would be an excellent idea and a win win on 2 counts. We cant keep losing the best players to soccer,rugby and AFL. No sport can survive without their best players. We have signifcant income coming in at the minute and some of this somehow has to be used to keep our best players.
HOGANSTAND
Brennan fuming over 'cheeky' Aussie Rules trial
09 July 2008
GAA president Nickey Brennan has blasted an Australian Rules scout who held a trial at Kingspan Breffni Park in Cavan last Friday night.
Carlton Blues scout Gerard Sholly did not ask the Cavan county board for permission to use the ground, saying he "didn't realise it was theirs". The board, along with Brennan, are furious at the development, with red-faced Cavan chiefs claiming they were completely unaware that the trial was taking place.
Cavan chairman Philip Sheridan said that once they realised what was going on, Sholly and the players were ejected from the county grounds.
Brennan said: "It is very cheeky of Gerard Sholly to appear on a back pitch that was open for the last few days and use it without permission.
"The Cavan county board are rightly very annoyed and I share that annoyance with them that somebody would have the cheek and audacity to go into a property and conduct whatever he was conducting with a number of players without permission.
"Quite frankly, he would not have got that permission."
It comes after Aussie Rules agent Ricky Nixon met with the GAA last week to outline his plans to establish a recruiting network in Ireland, but Sholly moved to try and allay the fears of the wider GAA public about the nature of the exercise.
"On this trip, we've probably spoken to about 25 families and some of these players came together for a session at Breffni Park last Friday," he said.
Step 1:
Chase the AFL - tell them the international rules is scrapped indefinitely, and they are not welcome until this shite stops.
Step 2:
Give this weasel bastard Scholly a doing - or bar him and the rest of the AFL scouts from attending any games.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7496550.stm
QuoteAustralian scout Gerard Scholly did not ask the Cavan County Board for permission to use their premises prior to holding the session last Friday.
"I didn't realise that it was their ground," Scholly told BBC Newsline.
Step 3:
Make our players aware of all the shite within Aussie rules that the scum/agents are not mentioning - the failure rate of Irish players going over, the real wages etc etc.
thats outrageous, a scandal really but Brennan helped revive the int series. he could have just said no.
I really don't see what is up setting so many people. What I see is an opportunioty for someone that I know to have a full time career getting paid to play a game a game that is similar to gaelic football. Imagine getting paid on a professional bais to do that...what a dream. Its great IMO that the opportunity is becoming more accessable to more of our young players.
I dont know why hes only getting getting upset now, its been common knowledge that these trials have been occuring all around the country over the last few weeks.
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on July 08, 2008, 07:56:42 PM
Dependng on how many players we're going to lose maybe the gaa has to consider some form of compensation to our best young players to keep them in our games. One option is decent grants for university students but other initiatives would have to be considered including more full time coaching posts with decent pay which would keep the players happy and help promote the games to children. With a lack of teachers willing to give up time to promote gaa in schools I think this would be an excellent idea and a win win on 2 counts. We cant keep losing the best players to soccer,rugby and AFL. No sport can survive without their best players. We have signifcant income coming in at the minute and some of this somehow has to be used to keep our best players.
Can you please explain to me how that would compensate a young man from the lure of potentiual full time football. Do you mean that the player being offer the opportunity in Aussie land gets employed as a coach at home. It would need to be a considrable increase on salary to interest them.
If anyone thinks that scrapping the International Rules series is the answer to this you're living in a dream land. The clubs that are sending these scouts over are as opposed to the International Rules series as anyone over here, the risk of them losing their own assets (the players) through injury is something they're not very happy about. Of course very few well say so publicly.
Lads - there is only one answer to put a stip to this and that is to allow GAA players go professional. I am not in favour of this, far too high a price to pay for the relative tiny minority we might lose, that will actually succeed.
I cant see that big a problem with it.
Its allowing young players to have the chance of a lifetime. Its not that long ago that an awful lot of players where heading to the states. This did not affect the game at home with very little said about it.
Because a few coaches come scouting for players, should not cause outright panic or the need to change the fabric of the GAA
the point you're all missing is that we don't have to make it easy for them. There isn't much the Gaa can do, you don't need a degree in nuclear physics to realise that, but why give them an easy ride over it? But i follow the game over there and a lot of those clubs don't have the facilities to look after our lads in terms of universities etc. Some do, but a lot don't and this scout is a cowboy, you only have to see the way he conducts his business. There isn't pots of Gold over there only to the select minority.
Quote from: stephenite on July 09, 2008, 10:34:03 AM
Lads - there is only one answer to put a stip to this and that is to allow GAA players go professional.
That better not happen.
I know what... nuke Australia ;D
Lads, their is far more young lads going to play soccer/rugby than Aussie rules and these lads are been lost to GAA. Monaghan minors played Derry last week - Mark Connolly from Clones has already signed for Wolves and played midfield on Saturday, an excellent talent. Seen him as a 15 year old destroy our minor team. Two others on the team - Aaron McCarey and Pete Dooney (both 16) are on the Irish U17 squads and have been across the water already and could well land their already.
In the past Monaghan have lost Jonathon Douglas and Barry Conlon after county minor level.
Can we blame the lads or the soccer clubs? No, of course not. Is there anything we can realisticaly do to stop these professional sports from taking our players? No, no contracts, ameteur status etc.
Can we benefit from Aussie Rules scouts? Potentially. If they are going to come and they will, charge them indirectly through the International rules. Look for an increased share of the profits from the games at the very least.
We are caught between a rock and a hard place. Only option is to make these trials as hard as possible for the Oz scouts to hold.
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/2007/02/25/srfron250207.jpg)
The BBC did a piece on the Aussie Rules poaching our young players including an interview with that scout Scholly
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7466369.stm
Quote from: Bensars on July 09, 2008, 10:41:40 AM
I cant see that big a problem with it.
Its allowing young players to have the chance of a lifetime. Its not that long ago that an awful lot of players where heading to the states. This did not affect the game at home with very little said about it.
Because a few coaches come scouting for players, should not cause outright panic or the need to change the fabric of the GAA
Aye I cant see the problem either with it. Sure whats the big deal about losing 20 of your best young talents each year who will be the shop window for the gaa for attracting youngsters and the general public to our games for years to come. Sure there was plenty of Tohills, Canavans, Fitzgeralds playing football all over the country and losing them would have been no big deal. Why would the gaa complain about the aussies hand picking the very best players who have been given years of free coaching at the time and effort of gaa members. Maybe we should even start playing aussie rules instead of gaelic football and then even more players would have a chance of making it.
Max my point was to have a decent paid coaching job for the best younger players who would be interested in getting the relevant qualifications. These players would be the best people to sell the games to the youth in schools and clubs throughout the country. Obviously the wages wouldnt come close to matching that of a top Aussie rules player but would have other benefits. The player could contine playing for their club/county. They would have job security which obviously wouldnt be the case in Austraillia were a lot of players wont make it. They could stay at home,not every young person wants to move to the other side of the world. It also has to be remembered that Aussie Rules careers are very short and by the time the players actually make it the potential to make big money is very limited.
Since the AFL has started making a big push over here in 2000 or so 8 Irish players have made the big time of that 2 where hurlers .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Irish_Australian_rules_footballers
The AFL now have the names and contact details of every underaged player in the country.
In fairness GNevin, this new 'big push' seems to be far more organised and efficient than the random sort of scouting that was going on.
What sort of money do regular AFL players make in a season?
Average salary is now $200,000 AUD (140,000 Euros). Not Ronaldo's wage but not a pauper's existence.
Kennelly would be on $500,000 AUD plus.
Highest paid would be close to $1,000,000 (Brown or Judd). They might earn the same again in endorsements plus they get cut into all the good deals by business people supporting the respective clubs.
Rookies get $80,000 per annum which drags the average salary down to $200,000.
I could be wrong here, but an Aussie lad once told me that the AFL are desperate for the International Rules series to continue. His reasoning was something along the lines off, because they play another country (from another continent) it is classified as an international sport. Therefore under some sort of Aussie Sporting body, they are entitled to all sorts of grants and use of grounds that they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to use. Now this was said in a pub about 3 years ago, but has anyone else heard anything along those lines?
Apparently at that stage, the Aussies were bending over backways without trying to make it look so, so that the series was continuing to be attractive to Ireland. This was meant to be getting decent coloumn inches over there, cause lots of journalists were using the "we're massive and don't need help from them" sort of thing. Someone correct me if this was all a load of shite
That is wrong Wanderer. The AFL have more money than a pig can shit. They sold the TV rights for 5 years for 468 million Euro for example. They want the IR so they can trumpet an international option for AFL players.
Petty? I'm a member of the GAA. So is my neighbour down the road. Would I look petty if he came into my garden and started up a barbecue without my permission and I removed him "forcibly" (I presume you meant) or otherwise?
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 10, 2008, 08:47:59 AM
In fairness GNevin, this new 'big push' seems to be far more organised and efficient than the random sort of scouting that was going on.
Doesn't mean these players will make it .It must be remember these players are going over to play a game they've never played 8 players in 10 years is a very low number .Which the GAA should be highlighting to young players
Quote from: ziggysego on July 10, 2008, 08:47:34 AM
The AFL now have the names and contact details of every underaged player in the country.
Fair play to them i bet you the GAA don't have this sort of information
In recent times the GAA have lost some of their top stars to Soccer, Rugby and AFL. If they are going to hold on to our top talent, we are going to have to organise and market their games much better.
I agree with Nicky Brennan that not all the lads who go 'down under' will make it, but players are still getting offered the chance to have a go at it. The lure of going down under to experience a new culture, see the world and possibly make it in the big time is quite an attraction.
Ii they stay at home they have the following to look forward to:
(1) A poorly organised club/county fixture schedule
(2) 3-4 games in a two week period, then none during the summer months
(3) Struggling to keep all their managers happy as they have so many games on
(4) Not being able to organise holidays for fear of fixtures being changed and them losing the money for the holidays
(5) playing up to 2-3 games a week during exam season
If properly organised the GAA could offer so much to our young players. In many cases they will go to play soccer/rugby for the local club as they know exactly where they stand with regard to fixtures etc.
Quote from: ziggysego on July 10, 2008, 08:47:34 AM
The AFL now have the names and contact details of every underaged player in the country.
According to Martin McHugh
well if kevin nolan decides to go down under you won't be so chipper gnevin. 2 other lads from crokes are going as well. I think it's absolutely outrageous that they would have the gall to just turn up and start using the pitch without asking anyone.
robertemmett the only way the club fixtures issue will ever be solved is if county players don't play for their clubs, that the only solution.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2008, 10:31:57 AM
well if kevin nolan decides to go down under you won't be so chipper gnevin. 2 other lads from crokes are going as well. I think it's absolutely outrageous that they would have the gall to just turn up and start using the pitch without asking anyone.
robertemmett the only way the club fixtures issue will ever be solved is if county players don't play for their clubs, that the only solution.
Lets see how many player put their name on the dotted line by the end of the year and see realistic the scope of this issue. People are up in arms here and rightly so about the pitch but Soccer and Rugby take far more players than the AFL has .
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2008, 10:31:57 AM
robertemmett the only way the club fixtures issue will ever be solved is if county players don't play for their clubs, that the only solution.
I think that bullet might have to be bitten OK. Fixture mayhem is the biggest disadvantage we suffer in competition with other sports for players and we're doing it to ourselves for no good reason other than want of proper organisation.
Think there is a major over reaction here. Unless this year is something different there is only ever a handful of players this effects. There is talk of 20-25 young players going out, IMO this wont happen.
What everyone seems to be forgetting, is that there is a natural wastage anyway, always has been.
How many players has Soccer,Rugby etc "poached". Then there is the element that go onto further education and may stop playing gaelic games. Dont forget the Drink and the female species either.
In regards of providing coaching jobs. Thats a load of balls IMHO. Firstly it creates an elite element. ( I presume these jobs will only be offered to those about to be poached ). It smacks of desperation. It also doesnt take account of people that want to persue different avenues in the career paths. Childminding and teaching/ coaching doesnt rock everyones world !
Half of those that go will return with a month or two anyway, homesick and missing mammys cooking. Probably half of the remainder will be scratched for not meeting the required level.
However they are amatuer players and should be afforded the oppurtunity to explore it, if they so desire !
Quote from: Hardy on July 10, 2008, 10:36:55 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2008, 10:31:57 AM
robertemmett the only way the club fixtures issue will ever be solved is if county players don't play for their clubs, that the only solution.
I think that bullet might have to be bitten OK. Fixture mayhem is the biggest disadvantage we suffer in competition with other sports for players and we're doing it to ourselves for no good reason other than want of proper organisation.
In this day and age ,their should be no issue with fixtures for 95% of teams. Just classify the teams by player type
Class A - Dual players on inter county panel
Class B - Players on the inter county panel
Class C -Dual club players
Class D - No players dual players
Class A - Teams to be scheduled in "Free weeks" , County boards to assume they win both All-Ireland via qualifiers
Class B - Teams to be scheduled in "Free weeks" , County boards to assume they win All-Ireland via qualifiers
Class C - Teams , can be scheduled to play each other regardless of any inter county team/game/championship.
Class D - Free teams , can be scheduled to play each other regardless of any other team/game/championship.
Games will only be cancelled in extreme circumstances,team members death for class A,B and C. Class D can be more relaxed All games with have an alternative venue and times, i.e
To be played Thursday 10th July Parnell Park alternate Whitehall
Alt dates Friday,Sat,Sun
games must be played within 3 days of original date.
Madness, absolute madness ...........
a scout/ agent comes over from australia to have a look at a few young lads and next thing is restructuring the classification of all players in BOTH codes and debates on fixture conjestion.
It a good job some of you werent in control of the red button during the cold war !
Quote from: Hardy on July 10, 2008, 10:08:49 AM
Petty? I'm a member of the GAA. So is my neighbour down the road. Would I look petty if he came into my garden and started up a barbecue without my permission and I removed him "forcibly" (I presume you meant) or otherwise?
a totally spurious analagy.
members of the GAA had a kickabout on a GAA pitch and were removed becasue there was a non member watching.
4-5 camps bensars being organised, over 100 elite players being looked at. I'd say up to 20 will be brought over. by all accounts they aim to increase. 3 are going from Dublin.They didn't even attend a camp and haven't appeared in any papers.
Not much the Gaa can do, and i wouldn't begrudge the players but the current recruitment drive is on a different level to previous years. The Aussies think on it, is that they firmly believe that elite minor footballers will cut it at AFL. They feel our lads have better ball skills and a natural athlecticism. their game is getting more like Gaelic Football every year.
Quote from: dublinfella on July 10, 2008, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: Hardy on July 10, 2008, 10:08:49 AM
Petty? I'm a member of the GAA. So is my neighbour down the road. Would I look petty if he came into my garden and started up a barbecue without my permission and I removed him "forcibly" (I presume you meant) or otherwise?
a totally spurious analagy.
members of the GAA had a kickabout on a GAA pitch and were removed becasue there was a non member watching.
Now that's spurious.
Members of the GAA had a trial in a non-GAA game, on a GAA pitch, while being officially watched and evaluated for a potential move away from the GAA by a representative of a club in the new sport.
Quote from: Bensars on July 10, 2008, 11:30:26 AM
next thing is restructuring the classification of all players in BOTH codes
It a good job some of you werent in control of the red button during the cold war !
If that's in relation to my post . My point was to classify the teams to make fixturing easier not restructuring the classification of players . The class wouldn't indicate one team is better than the other just when the team is available to play
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2008, 11:42:07 AM
4-5 camps bensars being organised, over 100 elite players being looked at. I'd say up to 20 will be brought over. by all accounts they aim to increase. 3 are going from Dublin.They didn't even attend a camp and haven't appeared in any papers.
Not much the Gaa can do, and i wouldn't begrudge the players but the current recruitment drive is on a different level to previous years. The Aussies think on it, is that they firmly believe that elite minor footballers will cut it at AFL. They feel our lads have better ball skills and a natural athlecticism. their game is getting more like Gaelic Football every year.
That's true Indiana. I haven't watched Aussie rule in years, but a couple of nights ago I watched Sydney versus Collingwood. I was amazed by the amount of Short passes, hand passes, support running, breaking balls etc etc. Way less 'long' kicks that I remember, very little of the spectacular fielding that was evident years ago. It was almost like watching Tyrone playing Fermanagh with a funny ball on a round field. Their game is adapting to become something that GAA players will find even easier to play, I think.
It is AZ, and thus the clubs over looking for the next big thing to come out of Ireland, our players can adapt far quicker to the style of AFL that is now being played. Are we killing ourselves by not going professional is a question I have been asking myself?
If Hanley, Dyas, Murphy and a few others make it as regular first team senior players in the next 2-3 years we will have a situation where by young GAA players are aiming/dreaming to get an AFL contract as opposed to a County jersey, and have a very, very real chance of making it.
I don't think it's necessary to over react just yet but if the hemorrhaging of our best talent continues something will have to be done, and the only realistic scenario to stop the GAA becoming a feeder sport for the AFL is to ultimately match what they're being offered - full time contracts.
QuoteIf Hanley, Dyas, Murphy and a few others make it as regular first team senior players in the next 2-3 years we will have a situation where by young GAA players are aiming/dreaming to get an AFL contract as opposed to a County jersey, and have a very, very real chance of making it.
Sensationalist in the extreme.
QuoteI don't think it's necessary to over react just yet but if the hemorrhaging of our best talent continues something will have to be done, and the only realistic scenario to stop the GAA becoming a feeder sport for the AFL is to ultimately match what they're being offered - full time contracts.
In fairness now, lets not get carried away. Is there even 10 young lads in the last 3 years ?
Agree absolutely with Bensars - no need to panic and no need to go proffisional tomorrow either. It would not work, would destroy the association if we tried and we would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Good to see Tadgh Kennelly getting envolved and prepared to talk to young lads and explain to them the cons as well as the pros. He seems to have totally got up this guy Nixons nose which is no harm
there are plenty of other aussie agents that haven't been mentioned here. Nixon isn't the only one. this is the first concerted effort by the aussies previously they just dabbled, too early to say yet but the aussies are the world leader in terms of sports, ie they are good at everything in terms of sports orgnaisation. i wouldn't lay any odds against them in their effort in making it work for them.
Ah sure isn't it great for the young lads. Sure acting as a free feeder nursery for a professional sports business in Australia is not too far from the community development work which is our reason for existence ... really. Sure grooming the top GAA stars of the future only to hand them over to Aussie Rules is no diffreent at all to young lads who were never committed anyway giving up GAA for drink, soccer, rugby, yadda, yadda. Sure what can we do anyway.
(http://www.geocities.com/hardyarse/monkeys.jpg)
Hardy, is this you?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3f/James_Frasier.jpg)
Could be. Except for the smile.
I wonder have they ever bothered looking here......... http://www.arfli.com/
Quote from: Bensars on July 10, 2008, 10:53:21 AM
Think there is a major over reaction here. Unless this year is something different there is only ever a handful of players this effects. There is talk of 20-25 young players going out, IMO this wont happen.
What everyone seems to be forgetting, is that there is a natural wastage anyway, always has been.
How many players has Soccer,Rugby etc "poached". Then there is the element that go onto further education and may stop playing gaelic games. Dont forget the Drink and the female species either.
In regards of providing coaching jobs. Thats a load of balls IMHO. Firstly it creates an elite element. ( I presume these jobs will only be offered to those about to be poached ). It smacks of desperation. It also doesnt take account of people that want to persue different avenues in the career paths. Childminding and teaching/ coaching doesnt rock everyones world !
Half of those that go will return with a month or two anyway, homesick and missing mammys cooking. Probably half of the remainder will be scratched for not meeting the required level.
However they are amatuer players and should be afforded the oppurtunity to explore it, if they so desire !
the comparison with losing players to soccer /rugby is laughable. GAA players are not headhunted by soccer clubs because of their gaelic football ability.Given that each Aussie Rules side has 2 avalable places for overseas players per yr, and this may be increased according to Nixon, figures of 20 per season going over are realistic giving the outlay by Nixon/Sholly ect. Nixon reckons they'll be a 50% success rate. Gaelic football losing the cream of its underage talent every yr cannot be anything but disasterous. Gaelic football without the likes of Cavanagh,Dara Shea,Ciaran Whelan,Graham Canty - basically those players who blend athleticism adn football ability- will be a far poorer place. Thats the future if this Aussie Rules tie in takes place.
The players are all amateurs and can go where they like to try their hands at whatever sport they like and there is SFA the GAA can do about it.
What is the average pay of an Aussie player per year and what is the high end and low end of the pay?
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 11, 2008, 09:00:18 AM
What is the average pay of an Aussie player per year and what is the high end and low end of the pay?
Info posted previously would suggest the following -
Average salary is now $200,000 AUD (140,000 Euros).
Kennelly would be on $500,000 AUD plus.
Highest paid would be close to $1,000,000 (Brown or Judd). They might earn the same again in endorsements plus they get cut into all the good deals by business people.
Rookies earn approx $80,000 and this is what drop th eaverage salary to $200k
Laois star Meredith snared by AFL Lions
By Brendan O'Brien
LAOIS footballer Conor Meredith has become the latest Irish youngster to try his hand at the AFL after arriving in Brisbane on Tuesday to begin a two-week trial with the Lions at the famous Gabba grounds.
The AFL club were Grand Final champions between 2001 and 2003, and have been one of the most enthusiastic talent spotters in Ireland. Another Laoisman, Colm Begley, is already an established star while Mayo's Pierce Hanley is on the rookie roster.
Meredith flew in to the Gold Coast city on Tuesday evening and the club wasted little time in commencing his Aussie Rules education, including the 18-year-old in a light training session with the rest of the squad the following morning.
Brisbane's interest in the Laois forward was signalled as long ago as last August, just weeks after the O'Dempseys player scored a hat-trick of goals against Carlow in the Leinster minor final at Croke Park.
However, it was at Dublin City University, where Meredith is on a football scholarship, that Brisbane football manager Graeme Allan first spotted the player's potential.
"He is similar to Colm Begley and Pierce Hanley, the kind of running player we feel adapts well to our game," Allan said. "He is out here for a couple of weeks to have a look at our set-up and so we can have a look at him."
Meredith is likely to see both his fellow countrymen in action during his trial period. Begley and Hanley are both on the comeback trail after injury and are due to appear for the reserves in the next two weeks.
Begley, who played in an astonishing 19 games in what was his rookie year last season, has missed 10 weeks with a quad injury but Brisbane coach Leigh Matthews is confident he will be pushing for a starting spot again soon.
"We think Colm adds something to our group and whether he is in our best 22 depends on him and how the other defenders play," he said.
Hanley has been out for six weeks with a hamstring injury but is expected to be fit again this week.
Meredith will not be the only Irish youngster to try out for an AFL club this year with Aussie Rules agents Gerard Sholley and Ricky Nixon conducting trials throughout the country.
Dublin's Carl Dias, a minor with the county last year, is also due to fly out to Australia next month for a four-week trial with the Adelaide Crows. Brisbane have also been contemplating the case of Down's Paul McComiskey while the Sydney Swans have been linked with Tyrone's Kyle Coney and Cork's Ciarán Sheehan.
No county has proved as bountiful to the scouts as Laois. Aside from Begley and Meredith, Brisbane have also had Brendan Quigley on their books. The Timahoe man eventually returned home because of homesickness and Carlton have also been linked with Zach Tuohy.
Click here for irishexaminer.com stories before this date
Lads, there has just been a report on Sky News that tomorrow's "The Age" newspaper carries as its headline an article about the intention to set up an All-Irish AFL team in Sydney called the Sydney Celtics. That's all I know at this stage.
I heard this rumour months ago and heard at the time that it was the brainchild of Donal O'Neill
Quote:
THE AFL is considering a radical proposal to launch an Irish-dominated team in Sydney's western suburbs, which would perform before an international audience under the Celtic brand name.
Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed last night that the Irish option was being explored as a possible basis for the competition's 18th team, to debut as early as 2012.
The "Sydney Celtics" plan was first put to AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou 18 months ago by Gaelic Players Association executive Donal O'Neill. It has gained momentum in recent weeks following player agent Ricky Nixon's talent-spotting tour of Ireland
Nixon has contacted Demetriou and Fitzpatrick in recent days and put forward a revised template for the AFL's 18th licence.
Mr Fitzpatrick said last night: "It's been put to us and while it's not without its issues it's something we'll explore. Ricky has made a reasonably compelling case and we are not discounting anything at this stage."
The Celtic proposal would bring an expanded television audience in Ireland and across Britain. The Celtic brand could also open a marketing bonanza given the international cache afforded the Boston Celtics (a basketball team) and the Glasgow Celtics (a soccer team).
Australia's Irish heritage and the AFL's historic relationship with Gaelic football add to the proposal's selling points. Currently nine Irish players feature on AFL club lists. The AFL's most famous Irishman Jim Stynes was recently appointed chairman of Melbourne.
The proposal originated at the International Rules series in Ireland in late 2006 where O'Neill put forward a plan to purchase an AFL licence in Sydney.
O'Neill came to Australia and in January 2007 met Demetriou and his football general manager Adrian Anderson, along with AFL Players' Association chief executive Brendon Gale.
The talks were kept secret largely because of domestic political concerns in Ireland, where players remain amateur despite the fact that the Irish governing body, the Gaelic Athletic Association, boasts $4 billion in assets.
Demetriou yesterday confirmed the meeting with O'Neill, who reportedly put forward a detailed business plan involved millions of dollars in funding emanating from the US and Britain as well as Ireland.
The AFL chief executive said yesterday: "To call this embryonic is an understatement. We are looking at several proposals and we have been forwarded all sorts of ideas."
Gale said of the proposal: "When it was first raised I saw it as a soft but effective way of internationalising our game and growing it domestically. Clearly there are some incredible structural challenges but I saw it as worthy of referring on ... As a blank canvas I think it has merit."
While the AFL has started construction on its new home base for its team out of western Sydney — a boutique stadium in Rooty Hill near Blacktown — it is not expected to grant its 18th licence for about 12 months.
The western Sydney working party devising player rules and draft concessions for the second Sydney team is due to meet next on July 22.
At this stage the Irish proposal has not been officially discussed by the AFL's NSW-ACT operation. One misgiving among senior league executives is the fall-out associated with creating a team heavily based upon a national or cultural identity, something which has caused deep divisions in soccer in the past.
Nixon, a former teammate of Fitzpatrick at Carlton, launched his talent-spotting project earlier this year across all 32 Irish counties. He has signed five AFL clubs (each at a cost of $30,000), with the promise of identifying at least one Irish youngster for each club's senior list.
Recently engaged in a war of words with Sydney premiership player and Listowel native Tadhg Kennelly, who accused Nixon of plundering Irish talent, Nixon has workshopped the Celtic proposal with at least two AFL club chief executives.
Ok lads, I was thinking about this and can think of one way curbing this and improving Gaelic, ban the handpass.
Simple, puts the "foot" back in football and removes the skill the Ozzys are most intrested in too.
Man, that is pretty damning stuff on behalf of O'Neill, the mask has well and truely dropped. THis development is virtually forcing official semi-professional status on the GAA in order to prevent a drain of some of our best, or attract them back, from Australia, as well as gain some compensation for those that go.
Quote from: Mentalman on July 11, 2008, 05:38:49 PM
Man, that is pretty damning stuff on behalf of O'Neill, the mask has well and truely dropped. THis development is virtually forcing official semi-professional status on the GAA in order to prevent a drain of some of our best, or attract them back, from Australia, as well as gain some compensation for those that go.
I think O Neill is a side show in all this. It quite clear that the Aussies have notions of reaping and pilaging the GAA for all its worth. Did Nixon reveal this to Nickey Brennen I wonder?
Quote from: TBT on July 11, 2008, 05:52:00 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on July 11, 2008, 05:38:49 PM
Man, that is pretty damning stuff on behalf of O'Neill, the mask has well and truely dropped. THis development is virtually forcing official semi-professional status on the GAA in order to prevent a drain of some of our best, or attract them back, from Australia, as well as gain some compensation for those that go.
I think O Neill is a side show in all this. It quite clear that the Aussies have notions of reaping and pilaging the GAA for all its worth. Did Nixon reveal this to Nickey Brennen I wonder?
Musn't have, didn't mention it in any of his interviews, which seemed quite frank at the time, but he wasn't revealing the full story as we know now.
Wouldn't underplay O'Neill, it says there that he presented detailed business plan -
QuoteDemetriou yesterday confirmed the meeting with O'Neill, who reportedly put forward a detailed business plan involved millions of dollars in funding emanating from the US and Britain as well as Ireland.
Quote from: stiffler on February 21, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
Someone should start up an aussie rules team based in melbourne made up entirely of Gaa players, then the players play for 2 or 3 seasons before returning to their native county for the rest of their careers.
This way all top GAA players can live the life of a professional (granted for a limited time) and we would retain the best of our talent in this country.
I would imagine a top class aussie rules side made up entirely of irish players would be very marketable in Oz.
I wasnt too far off the mark!!
Quote from: stiffler on July 11, 2008, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 21, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
Someone should start up an aussie rules team based in melbourne made up entirely of Gaa players, then the players play for 2 or 3 seasons before returning to their native county for the rest of their careers.
This way all top GAA players can live the life of a professional (granted for a limited time) and we would retain the best of our talent in this country.
I would imagine a top class aussie rules side made up entirely of irish players would be very marketable in Oz.
I wasnt too far off the mark!!
That is uncanny!
This report was by Caroline Wilson who knows here stuff.
Did O'Neill tell the GAA what was going on. Did he tell his members?
Some explainations are required and fast! This totally undermines the GPAs supposed desire for good realationships with Croke Park.
What are they playing at,
Perhaps this was the reason for O'Neill parting with the GPA?
AFL considers Irish-dominated Celtics
The AFL is considering a radical proposal to launch an Irish-dominated team in Sydney's western suburbs which would perform before an international audience under the Celtic brand name.
Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed on Friday night the Irish option was being explored as a possible basis for the competition's 18th team, to debut as early as 2012.
The Sydney Celtics plan was first put to AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou 18 months ago by Gaelic Players Association executive Donal O'Neill, Fairfax newspapers report on Saturday.
It has gained momentum in recent weeks following player agent Ricky Nixon's talent-spotting tour of Ireland.
Nixon has contacted Demetriou and Fitzpatrick in recent days and put forward a revised template for the AFL's 18th licence.
Mr Fitzpatrick said on Friday night: "It's been put to us and, while it's not without its issues, it's something we'll explore. Ricky has made a reasonably compelling case and we are not discounting anything at this stage."
The Celtic proposal would bring an expanded television audience in Ireland and across Britain.
The Celtic brand could also open a marketing bonanza given the international cachet afforded the Boston Celtics (a basketball team) and the Glasgow Celtics (a soccer team).
Australia's Irish heritage and the AFL's historic relationship with Gaelic football add to the proposal's selling points.
Currently nine Irish players feature on AFL club lists. The AFL's most famous Irishman, Jim Stynes, was recently appointed chairman of Melbourne.
I know their is thread on this but deserves one on its own
http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=596310
Already under discussion under the AFL Invasion thread, but probably deserves a thread in it's own right anyway, could be the most serious threat to the big ball game of recent times:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6748.195
Quote from: Mentalman on July 11, 2008, 09:56:59 PM
Already under discussion under the AFL Invasion thread, but probably deserves a thread in it's own right anyway, could be the most serious threat to the big ball game of recent times:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6748.195
Enough is enough this is a serious threat to the GAA . Nicky needs to taclkle this head on
I don't think this will ever get off the ground because of the problems with a team made up of and marketed as a culturally seperate team.
Quote from: Zulu on July 11, 2008, 10:15:34 PM
I don't think this will ever get off the ground because of the problems with a team made up of and marketed as a culturally seperate team.
Particularly in Australia. Could you imagine the abuse an Irish team would get?
i'd watch them, it's not the worst idea, but i imagine there's zero chance of this coming off. The time difference means that games will never be able to command decent time slots over here, so where could the revenue come from? There's 20 million people over there with several unrepresented states/territories who would obviously be able to generate more revenue than an 'irish' side would.
However if we want to stop the drain of talent, maybe it's time we realised that paying players would be more productive than paying contractors to build more underutilised stadia/
Not another celtic/leprachaun gimic ::)
Could some of the people who think all this AFL stuff will lead to some kind of doomsday scenario in the GAA just give me an idea of what the ACTUAL effect of this will be? Lets jump 5 years into the future. Every year we lose the 20 best minors in the country. What tangible effect will this have on the game itself? For example, if Meath lost a good young player I'd be disappointed but I'd get over it pretty quickly. There will be young lads falling over themselves to take his place on the county team. Also, outstanding minors don't always make outstanding seniors as we all know.
Quote from: Bogball XV on July 12, 2008, 11:27:14 AM
i'd watch them, it's not the worst idea, but i imagine there's zero chance of this coming off. The time difference means that games will never be able to command decent time slots over here, so where could the revenue come from? There's 20 million people over there with several unrepresented states/territories who would obviously be able to generate more revenue than an 'irish' side would.
However if we want to stop the drain of talent, maybe it's time we realised that paying players would be more productive than paying contractors to build more underutilised stadia/
And tell me again how the gaa could afford this?
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 12:39:09 PM
Could some of the people who think all this AFL stuff will lead to some kind of doomsday scenario in the GAA just give me an idea of what the ACTUAL effect of this will be? Lets jump 5 years into the future. Every year we lose the 20 best minors in the country. What tangible effect will this have on the game itself? For example, if Meath lost a good young player I'd be disappointed but I'd get over it pretty quickly. There will be young lads falling over themselves to take his place on the county team. Also, outstanding minors don't always make outstanding seniors as we all know.
A future without Dara O Se/Sean Cavanagh/Graham Canty/Ciaran Whelan types ect all the top athletic football types. A significant decline in the standard of senior intercounty.
How does these GAA players go about getting a trail? Anyone know that?
Let's look at the facts, as taken from the article in The Age:
- There will be a new side based in Western Sydney shortly. They appear to have already started on the stadium.
- Ricky Nixon is looking to get this franchise
- Mr. Nixon sees Ireland as a source of cheap ready trained talent
- He plans to sign up as many suitable Irish players as is possible with or without the GAA's blessing
- The former chairman of the GPA is also involved
I'm not sure if there will be a "Sydney Celtics" side, it's name is irrelevant. There will be a new side in western Sydney. If the personalities named above win that franchise then there will be an increasing number of young Irish players involved with that team, and it will have a higher profile in Ireland. The unrepresented states and territories will remain so for now, simply because Sydney is a massive market in itself which the AFL has targeted, see the success of relatively new Swans. The AFL is aggressively marketing their game, not only in Australia but abroad - it's only a couple of years since an Irish side won their world series, in a game used as a curtain raiser to a Swan's game as I recall.
As for what harm can it do, losing the odd player here and there? Losing the odd one is fine. Consistently losing some of our best players year on year is something else. Laois are already suffering, and it's not like GAA, specifically in Leinster, is going from strength to strength at the moment, with all the other competitors and pitfalls of modern life. If we have a consistent drain of young players to the AFL how long do you think before kids realise the traits it takes to make it in the AFL, and persue those themselves in the hope of getting a move - i.e. more suitable players to their game. Are our minor county sides to become the nurseries of the AFL? Will our kids watch AFL to see how our boys out there are doing as professional sports men? Could the GAA to become the League of Ireland to the the AFL's Premier League? Could our games to be left with the older players (GAA is increasingly a young man's game), the ones not suitable or good enough for the AFL, or those who didn't make it? The point of not every minor making it to senior is true, but if they took one good minor player from each county, each year, that has a cumulative effect at senior level. Add to that that the impact won't be uniform over counties, some will suffer more - i.e. an outstanding minor from Westmeath (if such a thing existed) would be missed more by his county than one from Dublin or Kerry - it can take a "lesser" county 10 years to build a side capable of challenging for a provinicial title after all.
Look, it's unlikely to be a Doomsday scenario like that BUT sticking our heads in the sand and hoping it won't happen is not the route to go either. We need to plan and make contingencies, especially now we are forewarned.
Here's the full article from The Age, in case you didn't see it on the AFL Invasion thread:
http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/07/11/1215658137146.html (http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/07/11/1215658137146.html)
Quote
THE AFL is considering a radical proposal to launch an Irish-dominated team in Sydney's western suburbs, which would perform before an international audience under the Celtic brand name.
Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed last night that the Irish option was being explored as a possible basis for the competition's 18th team, to debut as early as 2012.
The "Sydney Celtics" plan was first put to AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou 18 months ago by Gaelic Players Association executive Donal O'Neill. It has gained momentum in recent weeks following player agent Ricky Nixon's talent-spotting tour of Ireland
Nixon has contacted Demetriou and Fitzpatrick in recent days and put forward a revised template for the AFL's 18th licence.
Mr Fitzpatrick said last night: "It's been put to us and while it's not without its issues it's something we'll explore. Ricky has made a reasonably compelling case and we are not discounting anything at this stage."
The Celtic proposal would bring an expanded television audience in Ireland and across Britain. The Celtic brand could also open a marketing bonanza given the international cache afforded the Boston Celtics (a basketball team) and the Glasgow Celtics (a soccer team).
Australia's Irish heritage and the AFL's historic relationship with Gaelic football add to the proposal's selling points. Currently nine Irish players feature on AFL club lists. The AFL's most famous Irishman Jim Stynes was recently appointed chairman of Melbourne.
The proposal originated at the International Rules series in Ireland in late 2006 where O'Neill put forward a plan to purchase an AFL licence in Sydney.
O'Neill came to Australia and in January 2007 met Demetriou and his football general manager Adrian Anderson, along with AFL Players' Association chief executive Brendon Gale.
The talks were kept secret largely because of domestic political concerns in Ireland, where players remain amateur despite the fact that the Irish governing body, the Gaelic Athletic Association, boasts $4 billion in assets.
Demetriou yesterday confirmed the meeting with O'Neill, who reportedly put forward a detailed business plan involved millions of dollars in funding emanating from the US and Britain as well as Ireland.
The AFL chief executive said yesterday: "To call this embryonic is an understatement. We are looking at several proposals and we have been forwarded all sorts of ideas."
Gale said of the proposal: "When it was first raised I saw it as a soft but effective way of internationalising our game and growing it domestically. Clearly there are some incredible structural challenges but I saw it as worthy of referring on ... As a blank canvas I think it has merit."
While the AFL has started construction on its new home base for its team out of western Sydney — a boutique stadium in Rooty Hill near Blacktown — it is not expected to grant its 18th licence for about 12 months.
The western Sydney working party devising player rules and draft concessions for the second Sydney team is due to meet next on July 22.
At this stage the Irish proposal has not been officially discussed by the AFL's NSW-ACT operation. One misgiving among senior league executives is the fall-out associated with creating a team heavily based upon a national or cultural identity, something which has caused deep divisions in soccer in the past.
Nixon, a former teammate of Fitzpatrick at Carlton, launched his talent-spotting project earlier this year across all 32 Irish counties. He has signed five AFL clubs (each at a cost of $30,000), with the promise of identifying at least one Irish youngster for each club's senior list.
Recently engaged in a war of words with Sydney premiership player and Listowel native Tadhg Kennelly, who accused Nixon of plundering Irish talent, Nixon has workshopped the Celtic proposal with at least two AFL club chief executives.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 12, 2008, 12:45:04 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on July 12, 2008, 11:27:14 AM
i'd watch them, it's not the worst idea, but i imagine there's zero chance of this coming off. The time difference means that games will never be able to command decent time slots over here, so where could the revenue come from? There's 20 million people over there with several unrepresented states/territories who would obviously be able to generate more revenue than an 'irish' side would.
However if we want to stop the drain of talent, maybe it's time we realised that paying players would be more productive than paying contractors to build more underutilised stadia/
And tell me again how the gaa could afford this?
easy enough to come up with a deal acceptable to everybody, you don't have to pay fortunes, just enough so that lads get to be more or less full time gaa employees for their peak years, they can coach in schools in the mornings and train in the afternoons. AFL don't pay out huge amounts, rookie contracts are approx €8000 p.a, i think we could match that? Even now, i think setanta o'hailpin is on less than €30,000 so if we can show lads an alternative, then maybe we can compete? I also think that in order to attract interest from foreigners living here we need to come up with a few quid for them.
AFL isn't our biggest problem anyway, imo it's rugby, that does give talented youngsters a realistic opportunity of becoming a professional here in ireland, again the money isn't great for the most of them, so we should be able to compete with that.
Quote from: TBT on July 12, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 12:39:09 PM
Could some of the people who think all this AFL stuff will lead to some kind of doomsday scenario in the GAA just give me an idea of what the ACTUAL effect of this will be? Lets jump 5 years into the future. Every year we lose the 20 best minors in the country. What tangible effect will this have on the game itself? For example, if Meath lost a good young player I'd be disappointed but I'd get over it pretty quickly. There will be young lads falling over themselves to take his place on the county team. Also, outstanding minors don't always make outstanding seniors as we all know.
A future without Dara O Se/Sean Cavanagh/Graham Canty/Ciaran Whelan types ect all the top athletic football types. A significant decline in the standard of senior intercounty.
Yeah but if they never played senior intercounty you wouldn't know what you were missing. Outside of their own counties, for the most part when all the players you named were minors nobody else knew anything about them. I suppose it's a bit of a tree falling in the woods scenario. I've heard of most of the lads that are rumoured to be heading over to Oz in the next year or so with a few exceptions, but I follow the minor scene very closely. The majority of GAA fans don't (outside of their own counties). As for the suggestion that standards will fall, I don't think it's that simple. Look at Anthony Moyles and Ger Spillane. Two guys who came relatively late to the senior intercounty scene (both graduating from the junior ranks). They are in the top 5 centre backs in the country now. I think the standard will stay the same to be honest. Plus, given the nature of recruitment where the net is cast far and wide as it doesn't involve much of a financial outlay, you will undoubtedly get a lot of guys coming back after their 2 year rookie contract is up. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather lads stayed here and played football but I wouldn't begrudge them a move to Oz and the best of luck to them out there. Any talk of introducing professionalism to counter this supposed threat is so far off the mark you'd need a telescope to see it. Let's be realistic here.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 02:39:43 PM
Quote from: TBT on July 12, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 12:39:09 PM
Could some of the people who think all this AFL stuff will lead to some kind of doomsday scenario in the GAA just give me an idea of what the ACTUAL effect of this will be? Lets jump 5 years into the future. Every year we lose the 20 best minors in the country. What tangible effect will this have on the game itself? For example, if Meath lost a good young player I'd be disappointed but I'd get over it pretty quickly. There will be young lads falling over themselves to take his place on the county team. Also, outstanding minors don't always make outstanding seniors as we all know.
A future without Dara O Se/Sean Cavanagh/Graham Canty/Ciaran Whelan types ect all the top athletic football types. A significant decline in the standard of senior intercounty.
Yeah but if they never played senior intercounty you wouldn't know what you were missing. Outside of their own counties, for the most part when all the players you named were minors nobody else knew anything about them. I suppose it's a bit of a tree falling in the woods scenario. I've heard of most of the lads that are rumoured to be heading over to Oz in the next year or so with a few exceptions, but I follow the minor scene very closely. The majority of GAA fans don't (outside of their own counties). As for the suggestion that standards will fall, I don't think it's that simple. Look at Anthony Moyles and Ger Spillane. Two guys who came relatively late to the senior intercounty scene (both graduating from the junior ranks). They are in the top 5 centre backs in the country now. I think the standard will stay the same to be honest. Plus, given the nature of recruitment where the net is cast far and wide as it doesn't involve much of a financial outlay, you will undoubtedly get a lot of guys coming back after their 2 year rookie contract is up. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather lads stayed here and played football but I wouldn't begrudge them a move to Oz and the best of luck to them out there. Any talk of introducing professionalism to counter this supposed threat is so far off the mark you'd need a telescope to see it. Let's be realistic here.
To be fair Moyles and Spillane are far from typical.
There are a lot of imponderables in this system, but it stands to reason if you consistently lose some of your better, younger players the quality of your product decreases. And people do notice. Just look at attendances at hurling matches in Leinster. You may say it's because Kilkenny are so strong, which is true, but it's also because the other counties are so weak. Losing good young players will only make the smaller counties weaker. Which is grand if al your interested in seeing is Dublin vs Meath & Kerry vs Cork, I just don't think people will stay too interested for too long. As I said above maybe the LOI vs Premier League is a bit too extreme a comparison. But maybe something like the Swedish Allsvensken where the very best leave when they are young and come back when they are older. Or New Zealand and the other South Sea islanders, where the NZ clubs cherry pick the very best, hamstringing their home nations. Or the situation that pertained between Rugby League and Union when Union was amateur.
You say be realistic. I say forewarned is forearmed. I would never criticise a young lad for taking the chance to follow his dream of being a professional athlete. On the other hand we have to look after the best interests of our own sport.
There is absolutely no comparison between football and hurling. The so-called "weaker" counties in football have never been stronger than they are now. To illustrate this we have two division 3 teams contesting provincial finals in Ulster & Leinster, a situation that could never, and will never, occur in hurling.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 03:32:44 PM
There is absolutely no comparison between football and hurling. The so-called "weaker" counties in football have never been stronger than they are now. To illustrate this we have two division 3 teams contesting provincial finals in Ulster & Leinster, a situation that could never, and will never, occur in hurling.
That wasn't the point at all. The point is if the lesser counties are weakened, and the championship becomes a procession between 3 or 4 counties people will not pay to see it. Whether lesser counties are stronger than ever right now is not the issue, it's what the effect a drain of talent could have on them in future. Anyway I wouldn't say the weaker counties are stronger than ever - Leinster is a weak and none of our counties have contested an All-Ireland final in some time, indeed semis have been hard to come by - but that's a completely different argument, not related. The point was whether standards will drop, or will you notice as those players never made it to senior level. It stands to reason standards would drop, and people will notice eventually, and your game isn't as attractive anymore to the non-committed. Anyway, like I said, it's not the apocalypse but sitting on our hands is not the solution either.
Quote from: Mentalman on July 12, 2008, 04:00:36 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 03:32:44 PM
There is absolutely no comparison between football and hurling. The so-called "weaker" counties in football have never been stronger than they are now. To illustrate this we have two division 3 teams contesting provincial finals in Ulster & Leinster, a situation that could never, and will never, occur in hurling.
That wasn't the point at all. The point is if the lesser counties are weakened, and the championship becomes a procession between 3 or 4 counties people will not pay to see it. Whether lesser counties are stronger than ever right now is not the issue, it's what the effect a drain of talent could have on them in future. Anyway I wouldn't say the weaker counties are stronger than ever - Leinster is a weak and none of our counties have contested an All-Ireland final in some time, indeed semis have been hard to come by - but that's a completely different argument, not related. The point was whether standards will drop, or will you notice as those players never made it to senior level. It stands to reason standards would drop, and people will notice eventually, and your game isn't as attractive anymore to the non-committed. Anyway, like I said, it's not the apocalypse but sitting on our hands is not the solution either.
Meath and Dublin were in the semi's last year, Dublin the year before. I still maintain that standards will not drop noticeably. Other players will step up to fill the breach. There have been plenty of lads down through the years who were not outstanding minors but developed into outstanding seniors. Once a guy hits his 20's he is pretty much safe from the recruiters as the time required to develop him makes it a bad investment. As for people not turning up to watch teams unless they have a chance of winning the All-Ireland, if that was the situation you wouldn't get many going to the games as it stands. For most people, the entertainment is derived from seeing their team put it up to one of the big guns or beat a neighbouring county and maybe get a day out in Croke Park. I think most people are realistic to know that their county has a very slim chance of winning the All-Ireland. As the saying goes, it's more about the journey than the destination.
(http://www.davesfootballblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/sydneycelticslogo.gif)
bogball
Quoteeasy enough to come up with a deal acceptable to everybody, you don't have to pay fortunes, just enough so that lads get to be more or less full time gaa employees for their peak years, they can coach in schools in the mornings and train in the afternoons. AFL don't pay out huge amounts, rookie contracts are approx €8000 p.a, i think we could match that? Even now, i think setanta o'hailpin is on less than €30,000 so if we can show lads an alternative, then maybe we can compete? I also think that in order to attract interest from foreigners living here we need to come up with a few quid for them.
AFL isn't our biggest problem anyway, imo it's rugby, that does give talented youngsters a realistic opportunity of becoming a professional here in ireland, again the money isn't great for the most of them, so we should be able to compete with that.
AFL wages are a lot higher then that according to what I've read on here - it's not really relevant as the GAA couldnt afford anything like that anyway. Plus, on those wages, what do these players plan to do when they are no longer able to play?
Another thing, we're constantly talking on here about the threat the AFL has on the GAA yet we've got a 18 page thread on the main gaa section of the board discussing AFL games/players etc? HA!
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 04:56:13 PM
Meath and Dublin were in the semi's last year, Dublin the year before.
The point about Leinster football isn't all that relevant to the debate but only one Leinster county has contested a final since the current format was brought in, 2001, your own. Prior to that it was your own again, winning in 1999. Two finalists. Again off the top of my head other the semi finalists you named, Leinster counties have contest 2 others, 2001 obviously, and Dublin on another occasion. For a province representing 3/5 of the national population that's not fighting your weight, there are obviously other factors at play though.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 04:56:13 PM
I still maintain that standards will not drop noticeably. Other players will step up to fill the breach. There have been plenty of lads down through the years who were not outstanding minors but developed into outstanding seniors. Once a guy hits his 20's he is pretty much safe from the recruiters as the time required to develop him makes it a bad investment.
I'm not sure about other players filling the breach, other players as good as those gone? The best players are the best for a reason, and imediate substitutes are not readily available, at least not in most counties. The second point about guys been better at 21 say than at 18 is well made though. Hopefully we will not have to have that thesis tested, I just don't think we can afford to be complacent.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2008, 04:56:13 PM
As for people not turning up to watch teams unless they have a chance of winning the All-Ireland, if that was the situation you wouldn't get many going to the games as it stands. For most people, the entertainment is derived from seeing their team put it up to one of the big guns or beat a neighbouring county and maybe get a day out in Croke Park. I think most people are realistic to know that their county has a very slim chance of winning the All-Ireland. As the saying goes, it's more about the journey than the destination.
Your kind of putting words in my mouth there, as that wasn't the point I was making at all. Believe me as a Westmeath man I understand more than most that it's about the journey not the destination :) And I also know what it means to beat your neighbours and get a day in Croker. And anything that reduces your competitiveness is bad, and in my opinion smaller counties losing talented minors will do that. I notice a lot more folks following football in my own county in the last 12/13 years since we became somewhat competitive. At the same time the hurling following has fallen off since the 80's because there was no hope of even wining a championship game in Leinster. Following from that I never thought I'd see only 15,000 showing up for a Leinster hurling final. People won't go to games if their counties are not going to be competitive. No, actually, I'll correct that. People are more likely to follow their county if they are competitive. Not a problem in counties like your own where being competitive is more or less expected, but it is in the lesser lights. That's why I think a talent drain could/would effect the smaller counties, making them less competitive, therefore reducing the quality over all of the championship. But as I said before, there are a lot of imponderables in this whole equation.
Jinxy think of the difference conor meredith,colm begley and zac tuohy would make to laois They are already sniffing around Donie Kingston as well. thats the cream of their talent, we've a big population in Dublin but had the aussies come over and taken the 2 brogans and Ciaran Whelan we wouldn't be competitive. You won;t produce outstanding players all the time.
Martin Clarke would be worth 5 players to Down, paul mc comiskey would be another disastrous loss to Down football. Kerry can afford to lose Tadhg Kennelly but very few other counties have that luxury.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
Jinxy think of the difference conor meredith,colm begley and zac tuohy would make to laois They are already sniffing around Donie Kingston as well. thats the cream of their talent, we've a big population in Dublin but had the aussies come over and taken the 2 brogans and Ciaran Whelan we wouldn't be competitive. You won;t produce outstanding players all the time.
Martin Clarke would be worth 5 players to Down, paul mc comiskey would be another disastrous loss to Down football. Kerry can afford to lose Tadhg Kennelly but very few other counties have that luxury.
At the end of the day what difference did a conveyor belt of elite minor players make to Laois over the last 10 years? They won a Leinster title. Beano McDonald was the most outstanding minor footballer I've had the pleasure of watching and he's not even playing anymore. It's very easy to look at a dominant minor player and think that will automatically transfer to senior level. It doesn't work that way.
I dunno, Jinxy. I can't see the AFL, with their professional set-up, spending all that money and effort on recruiting our top minors if it's simply down to chance whether good minors make it or not. Maybe what we should learn from them is what we should be doing to turn our top minors into top seniors.
I hope you're right in your position, but I'm very fearful for the future of gaelic football because of this Aussie poaching. The latest story about an Irish-only team is bearing out my predictions here for a long time that the GAA is in danger of becoming simply a feeder sport for AFL, a la League Of Ireland for UK soccer, club rugby for the professional game, etc.
The fact that the loss of these players will hurt the county squads is irrelevant. The GAA has nothing to offer these players. They are good enough to have the chance to pursue a dream professional career in a full time sport.
Good luck to them. If it doesn't work out they can come home again.
The GAA is constitutionally paranoid about other sports being out to get them.
Not so long ago you could not even attend never mind play soccer or rugby.
What an utter farce that was. Nowadays at least kids in school can choose what sports they want to play without the GAA interfeering with that choice under the guise of a blanket of negative patriotism.
Now we have the remnants of the backwoods mentality hanging onto rule 44.
What now for the President of the GAA? in talks to resume the International rules while agents of that association are poaching GAA players.
Soccer and Rugby are regarded as sports who are "in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association"
Will he now propose that the AFL are in conflict.
Maybe he will clarify for us what is his understanding of the meaning of "conflict" in rule 44.
and you think soccer doesn't look the same way at GAA? We're talking about the effect it has on certain teams who can ill afford to lose some players. how long will it take carlow to produce another brendan murphy? Nobody:
-denys the players right to a professional career in another code
- that they don't owe the gaa anything
- that losing 20 players will bring the association down
But its equally lazy in my view to say that it has no effect on certain counties.we're simply talking about the effect its having on some counties that losing elite minor players every season has no effect on a county's prospects. Everything in life is a competition, and when in comeptition you have to do whats right for you. Nobody denys anyone's right to go to Australia but why make it easy for the agents to operate here? The Gaa doesn't have to apologise for trying to hold onto players to anyone.
Quote from: Hardy on July 13, 2008, 12:32:52 PM
I dunno, Jinxy. I can't see the AFL, with their professional set-up, spending all that money and effort on recruiting our top minors if it's simply down to chance whether good minors make it or not. Maybe what we should learn from them is what we should be doing to turn our top minors into top seniors.
I hope you're right in your position, but I'm very fearful for the future of gaelic football because of this Aussie poaching. The latest story about an Irish-only team is bearing out my predictions here for a long time that the GAA is in danger of becoming simply a feeder sport for AFL, a la League Of Ireland for UK soccer, club rugby for the professional game, etc.
#
Well there is the difference. We all know the distractions a young lad faces and these things can often interfere with his development as a senior footballer. Those distractions disappear for the most part when you receive full-time coaching and your livelihood depends on you making the grade. There will still be lads that don't fulfill their potential in either code though. Don't forget, going down the Irish route is cheap as chips for AFL teams. If a lad succeeds, great. If he doesn't, the club haven't lost much in the process. It's not like they are using their draft picks on Irish players.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2008, 12:49:27 PMand you think soccer doesn't look the same way at GAA?
I don't know how or in what way Soccer or Rugby look upon the GAA as competition.
At least they have the grace not to pollute their constitution with nonsense about being in conflict with competing sports and co-operate with each other without having to have an AGM to be given the permission.
QuoteWe're talking about the effect it has on certain teams who can ill afford to lose some players. how long will it take carlow to produce another brendan murphy? Nobody:
-denys the players right to a professional career in another code
- that they don't owe the gaa anything
- that losing 20 players will bring the association down
But its equally lazy in my view to say that it has no effect on certain counties.we're simply talking about the effect its having on some counties that losing elite minor players every season has no effect on a county's prospects.
That was just my poor expression.
I said it was a fact that counties would be affected but that it was irrelevant - as in part of the argument for trying to hold onto players NOT an irrelevant loss to the counties.
These days if a Minor player was already proficient in another code it would not be a surprise and if the player were offered a chance of a professional career in soccer or rugby there would not be any rumpus.
QuoteEverything in life is a competition, and when in comeptition you have to do whats right for you. Nobody denys anyone's right to go to Australia but why make it easy for the agents to operate here? The Gaa doesn't have to apologise for trying to hold onto players to anyone.
The GAA are just moaning.
I can't think of one thing and I have not read of one thing in this thread that could be construed as something practical to hold onto players.
There is nothing to stop the agent here as long as he observes the law.
The GAA shouting out
'down with that sort of thing' just ends up being good publicity for the agent.
It's a no brainer for a talented young lad.
The interests and ambition of the young lad are much more valid that the interests of the GAA.
The county board could offer to act as the finders and offer up the names of good young prospects to the interested AFL clubs and therefore be the beneficiary of a fat finders fee. That's about the only thing that could cut out the agent's enterprise without impinging on amateur status
An amateur GAA can't compete against the professionalism of the AFL.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2008, 12:49:27 PM
and you think soccer doesn't look the same way at GAA? We're talking about the effect it has on certain teams who can ill afford to lose some players. how long will it take carlow to produce another brendan murphy? Nobody:
-denys the players right to a professional career in another code
- that they don't owe the gaa anything
- that losing 20 players will bring the association down
But its equally lazy in my view to say that it has no effect on certain counties.we're simply talking about the effect its having on some counties that losing elite minor players every season has no effect on a county's prospects. Everything in life is a competition, and when in comeptition you have to do whats right for you. Nobody denys anyone's right to go to Australia but why make it easy for the agents to operate here? The Gaa doesn't have to apologise for trying to hold onto players to anyone.
But would you even know who he was if the aussies hadn't come after him?
With regard to this Sydney Celtics thing - I don't think it's a runner to be honest. They are proposing that it be based out in Western Sydney which is Rugby League heartland for starters, secondly there wouldn't be a huge population of Irish diaspora based out that way, there would be a sizable amount but they'd certainly be in the minority when compared to those of Asian or Pacific Island/Kiwi extraction.
The AFL would be crazy to try and put all their eggs in one basket by assuming that a franchise with stong Irish connections would take off, it wouldn't, and there is no way they would be able to successfully market such a product, any notions that basing this franchise around one nationality/identity would fail in such a multi-cultural environment.
Heard on the BBC news this Morning that Kyle Coney from Tyrone has signed a 2 year deal with some ozzie side, think its the sydney swans. If i remember rightly he was away trial for a trial with them.
Was he on the McKenna cup squad forTyrone?
Full story on the beeb;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7530951.stm
Fair play to the lad, he'll get some action out there as a pro-footballer ;)
and sure if it doesn't work out in 2 years he's still only 20. What a great opportunity.
Is Coney straight away, if so he is a big loss as he is the main man for the minors!
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 29, 2008, 03:14:13 PM
Is Coney straight away, if so he is a big loss as he is the main man for the minors!
He doesn't go till November apparently. Hope he makes it, wins an AFL title with the Swans and comes back to play for Tyrone at 20!
Hope he has a good run at it. Nobody can blame an 18 yr old lad for wanting to play professional sport in a great country. As others have said even if it doesn't work out he'll still be a young lad when he comes back. Hope he can help them to the all ireland before he goes.
It has emerged that a host of GAA inter-county players are to appear at AFL recruitment camp in Mayo, orchestrated by renowned scout Ricky Nixon.
Nixon has confirmed that Kerry's Tommy Walsh and David Moran will be at Breaffy's International Sports Hotel for the two-day camp, running through August 26-27.
"Tommy and David will be there, and I've also invited Tommy's brother Barry John too," Nixon confirmed to RTE News.
Barry John Walsh was the star forward of this year's Kerry minor team which made it to the All-Ireland semi-final.
Some of the country's best young footballers are on the list, including Laois star Donie Kingston, highly rated Dublin defender Kevin Nolan and free-scoring Limerick forward Ian Ryan.
One of the biggest surprises inclusions is Monaghan defender Dessie Mone, as the Clontibret clubman age is older than most GAA players who have been recruited Down Under.
According to The Irish Daily Star newspaper, the following players are due to appear at the camp: Tommy Walsh and David Moran (Kerry), Michael Murphy (Donegal), Donal Kingston (Laois), Kevin Nolan (Dublin), Brendan Boggs, Colm Cavanagh and Peter Hughes (Tyrone), Colm Murney and Paul McComiskey (Down), James Kielt and Neil Forrester (Derry), Niall McKeever and Thomas McCann (Antrim), Dessie Mone (Monaghan), Brian Sheridan (Meath), Ian Ryan (Limerick), Ciaran Nolan.
Cavanagh has a broken collar bone and I can't see him doing much - this looks like a cheap bit of advertsing to me !
I'd say Mickey'd be happy enough - sort out a bit of deadwood from his panel for next year without much fuss!
Was Boggs on the panel this year? I remember he was part of the infamous poly/tyrone mckenna cup scandal!
Can't believe Francie Bellew hasn't been asked to attend.
One of Longfords minor team from this year is already in Australia for a 2 week trial with some club. Apparently he attended the trial organised by the Cavan county board in Breffni park a few weeks ago ; :D
Quote from: North Longford on August 14, 2008, 03:22:05 PM
One of Longfords minor team from this year is already in Australia for a 2 week trial with some club. Apparently he attended the trial organised by the Cavan county board in Breffni park a few weeks ago ; :D
Don't think so ! ;)
Was thinking that now they are sniffing after young Kerrymen, a stand will be taken, but what (legally) can you do?
The only thing is to point out that the stats over the last 5 years suggest not everyone is a Martin Clarke, a lot of guys return home to fight for their county.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 15, 2008, 12:37:00 AM
Was thinking that now they are sniffing after young Kerrymen, a stand will be taken, but what (legally) can you do?
The only thing is to point out that the stats over the last 5 years suggest not everyone is a Martin Clarke, a lot of guys return home to fight for their county.
The only Irish man to win any medals out here is a Kerry man, in the last 5 years 3 have made it, with the number rising to 4 this year apparently. Rumours are that Pierce Hanley is to be elevated to the Lions senior roster and the rumours also are the Dyas will be packing his bags shortly and heading home.
Why did Michael Shields come home ?
Quote from: stephenite on August 15, 2008, 12:57:27 AM
the rumours also are the Dyas will be packing his bags shortly and heading home.
Did he suffer a serious tear to his hamstring or something like that?
Quote from: full back on August 15, 2008, 10:24:12 AM
Quote from: stephenite on August 15, 2008, 12:57:27 AM
the rumours also are the Dyas will be packing his bags shortly and heading home.
Did he suffer a serious tear to his hamstring or something like that?
Wouldn't have thought he'd be coming home so soon, he's not been away 12 months yet. Usually they give the Irish lads at least 2 years to see what they're up to.
I can't see a relatively short term injury like a hamstring tear laying waste to his whole chance down there. If this is true he must either have really not taken to the game at all or really not taken to Australia.
Ulster counties are bracing themselves for the loss of their best young talent after details emerged of an Aussie Rules recruitment camp.
Five Australian clubs, including the Brisbane Lions and Richmond Tigers, are to be represented at the five-day camp to be staged later this month.
It is believed 15 of the 22 players invited are from Ulster teams.
They include Colm Cavanagh, Paul McComiskey and Michael Murphy and Dessie Mone.
Kerry duo David Moran and Tommy Walsh are also on the list.
Down youngster McComiskey has already been offered a trial with the Lions while Walsh is being tipped for the young player of the year award after a string of fine performances in the Championship.
News of the camp comes just weeks after Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney opted for a move to Australia with Sydney Swans
The latest development will be a serious concern for GAA chiefs who fear the amateur game's top youngsters being tempted by big-money deals from Australia.
The talent drain is a major worry for managers as their team-building plans face being thrown into disarray.
In July Cavan officials complained to the AFL governing body after a scouting session for the Australian code was held at Breffni Park without permission.
This is how they're going to stop Ulster football !
From the 2007 minor campaign many of the top players have been targeted by Aussie Rules
Kerry: BJ Walsh
Cork: Kieran Sheehan
Laois: Conor Meredith (on trial with Brisbane at the moment), Zac Tuohy (heading to Carlton next week)
Galway: Michéal Martyn
Derry: James Kielt, Chris McKaigue, Carlus McWilliams
Tyrone: Kyle Coney (Signed for the Swans), Peter Hughes
Carlow: Brendan Murphy
Monaghan: Kieran Hughes
Donegal: Michael Murphy
It seems this Aussie Rules lark is getting more and more common
Quote from: robertemmet on August 15, 2008, 10:49:37 AM
From the 2007 minor campaign many of the top players have been targeted by Aussie Rules
Kerry: BJ Walsh
Cork: Kieran Sheehan
Laois: Conor Meredith (on trial with Brisbane at the moment), Zac Tuohy (heading to Carlton next week)
Galway: Michéal Martyn
Derry: James Kielt, Chris McKaigue, Carlus McWilliams
Tyrone: Kyle Coney (Signed for the Swans), Peter Hughes
Carlow: Brendan Murphy
Monaghan: Kieran Hughes
Donegal: Michael Murphy
It seems this Aussie Rules lark is getting more and more common
Who is Peter Hughes ?
Fair play to the lads & best of luck to them
The GAA dont own anyone
The name appeared in yesterday's Irish star, I assumke it is Peter Hughes (Eskra) who played on Omagh's Hogan winning team and Tyrone minors.
I heard that Colm Watters (Culloville & Armagh) is going to the camp as well.
Dessie Mone? WTF?
Quote from: full back on August 15, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
Fair play to the lads & best of luck to them
Absolutely
QuoteThe GAA dont own anyone
Of course not
Now - what can we do to deal with this crisis in football? ALL our top young talent is being targeted and gaelic football, at the very top level, is becoming a sport for players who fail to make it in professional "sport" in Australia and the minor championship is a feeder/nursery system for AFL. A bit like Irish soccer as it relates to the professional soccer business abroad. Is this what we want?
Quote from: Hardy on August 15, 2008, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: full back on August 15, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
Fair play to the lads & best of luck to them
Absolutely
QuoteThe GAA dont own anyone
Of course not
Now - what can we do to deal with this crisis in football? ALL our top young talent is being targeted and gaelic football, at the very top level, is becoming a sport for players who fail to make it in professional "sport" in Australia and the minor championship is a feeder/nursery system for AFL. A bit like Irish soccer as it relates to the professional soccer business abroad. Is this what we want?
No - but what can we do about it ?
I remember that guy Watters playing in a Corn na Nog final a while back for Colmans. Good player.
Aye the Minor All-Ireland is the shoip window for the Aussie rules guys.
It is not good that we are potentially losing some of the most talented players in our game, but it is a terrific opportunity for a young lad. You cannot blame them for considering it
Quote from: robertemmet on August 15, 2008, 11:17:12 AM
I remember that guy Watters playing in a Corn na Nog final a while back for Colmans. Good player.
Aye the Minor All-Ireland is the shoip window for the Aussie rules guys.
It is not good that we are potentially losing some of the most talented players in our game, but it is a terrific opportunity for a young lad. You cannot blame them for considering it
It might be a good shop window, but there's loads of other lads who don't play minor football who would be far better suited to Aussie rules.
Quote from: orangeman on August 15, 2008, 11:16:37 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 15, 2008, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: full back on August 15, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
Fair play to the lads & best of luck to them
Absolutely
QuoteThe GAA dont own anyone
Of course not
Now - what can we do to deal with this crisis in football? ALL our top young talent is being targeted and gaelic football, at the very top level, is becoming a sport for players who fail to make it in professional "sport" in Australia and the minor championship is a feeder/nursery system for AFL. A bit like Irish soccer as it relates to the professional soccer business abroad. Is this what we want?
No - but what can we do about it ?
I don't know. That's why I asked the question. But if I was President of the GAA or the full-time paid Director General, it would be my job to figure it out and it would probably be my top priority. Maybe it is for Brennan and Duffy. I wouldn't know, but I'm not filled with confidence that it's occupying their every waking hour.
Quote from: Hardy on August 15, 2008, 11:22:29 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 15, 2008, 11:16:37 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 15, 2008, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: full back on August 15, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
Fair play to the lads & best of luck to them
Absolutely
QuoteThe GAA dont own anyone
Of course not
Now - what can we do to deal with this crisis in football? ALL our top young talent is being targeted and gaelic football, at the very top level, is becoming a sport for players who fail to make it in professional "sport" in Australia and the minor championship is a feeder/nursery system for AFL. A bit like Irish soccer as it relates to the professional soccer business abroad. Is this what we want?
No - but what can we do about it ?
I don't know. That's why I asked the question. But if I was President of the GAA or the full-time paid Director General, it would be my job to figure it out and it would probably be my top priority. Maybe it is for Brennan and Duffy. I wouldn't know, but I'm not filled with confidence that it's occupying their every waking hour.
Maybe this is the GAA's way of bringing in full time contracts in the same way rugby did ?
Concerning Kevin Dyas, the Bigffoty Coltissue coming awasylingwood site has a thread saying that he has had a major muscle injury with tissue coming away from the bone - so bad it needed an operation. There appears to be no question of him coming home - apart from holiday - but that recovery wll be protracted. Best wishes to him anyway
The wha site? ???
Quote from: zoyler on August 15, 2008, 02:08:23 PM
Concerning Kevin Dyas, the Bigffoty Coltissue coming awasylingwood site has a thread saying that he has had a major muscle injury with tissue coming away from the bone - so bad it needed an operation. There appears to be no question of him coming home - apart from holiday - but that recovery wll be protracted. Best wishes to him anyway
Yeah out for a few months .
Meredith signs for Kangaroos
26 November 2008
Former Laois minor star Conor Meredith has agreed terms for a two-year international rookie contract with the North Melbourne Kangaroos.
The O'Dempsey's clubman, who trained with the Brisbane Lions in July, had a week's trial alongside Antrim's Niall McKeever at Richmond last week. This week, Meredith had a trial with the Kangaroos, while McKeever trained with St. Kilda.
The pair travelled to Australia after catching the eye of Aussie Rules agent Ricky Nixon during his recruitment camp in Castlebar last August.
Meredith, who scored a hat-trick of goals in Laois' Leinster minor final victory over Carlow last year, said: "It's good news. I've got a two-year rookie contract with North Melbourne and it's a dream come true.
"I want to play professionally so the opportunity to have an AFL career is just too good to turn down."
There could be more bad news for Laois in the offing as it's believed Colm Parkinson is considering taking a year out to travel and will not be available to new senior manager Sean Dempsey in 2009.
In other news, Kevin Reilly has apparently turned down an offer to move to Oz.
Whats the latest on colm begley's situation has he been snapped up....or will he be playing for laois next year??
Looking like Collingwood will sign him. 3 Irish lads at the one club.
Harte urges GAA to cut AFL ties
03 December 2008
Mickey Harte has reiterated his call for the GAA to immediately sever its links with the AFL after it was revealed that 11 of the 12 international players now listed by Australian Rules clubs are Irish.
The exception is Canada's Michael Pyke, and the Tyrone manager has expressed deep concern at the continued flow of young GAA stars to the AFL.
Four clubs have welcomed aboard new Irish players to their rookie lists - Louth's Brian Donnelly at
Adelaide, Longford's Michael Quinn at Essendon, Conor Meredith from Laois at North Melbourne, and Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney at Sydney Swans.
"We have to combat what's going on and the first step is to cut all official ties with the AFL," Harte said.
"We have no official diplomatic ties with other organisations and we should not be liaising with them while they walk all over us."
Following the success of controversial AFL agent Ricky Nixon's recruitment camps last August, Harte has suggested that the GAA establish academies to nurture rising young stars.
He explained: "We need to create a support mechanism to make it attractive for people to stay at home. Creating education-based academies of our own would give players a support mechanism and give them a lift in their career opportunities rather than taking a gamble."
Who are the eleven? OM has 4 named in that post. That leaves 7. Martin Clarke, Colm Begley, Setanta, Tadgh...
Now I need 3.
Kevin Dyas.
Didnt your boy Kevin? Dyas from Armagh go to Collingwood?
Brian Donnelly(Louth)
Michael Quinn(Longford)
Conor Meredith(Laois)
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on December 03, 2008, 02:07:40 PM
Brian Donnelly(Louth)
Michael Quinn(Longford)
Conor Meredith(Laois)
Nah, the above were mentioned in the post from OM. Kevin Dyas is right
Only need 2 now.
Brendan Murphy from Carlow joined the Swans last year.
pearse hanley ;)
mayo and Brisbane lions!
You tell them Mickey!!
I thought it was more than 11 :-\
There seems to be a lot of talk about a lot of players but then they never actually head - guys like Walsh, Moran, Kielt, McComiskey. Maybe all this speculation tricks a lot of people into thinking the problem is greater than it actually is.
Did that guy Touhy(sp?) from Laois head?
in the end tuohy i think was not up to standard, and the scouts lost interest in him.
Quote from: orangeman on December 03, 2008, 01:53:00 PM
Harte urges GAA to cut AFL ties
03 December 2008
Mickey Harte has reiterated his call for the GAA to immediately sever its links with the AFL after it was revealed that 11 of the 12 international players now listed by Australian Rules clubs are Irish.
The exception is Canada's Michael Pyke, and the Tyrone manager has expressed deep concern at the continued flow of young GAA stars to the AFL.
Four clubs have welcomed aboard new Irish players to their rookie lists - Louth's Brian Donnelly at
Adelaide, Longford's Michael Quinn at Essendon, Conor Meredith from Laois at North Melbourne, and Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney at Sydney Swans.
"We have to combat what's going on and the first step is to cut all official ties with the AFL," Harte said.
"We have no official diplomatic ties with other organisations and we should not be liaising with them while they walk all over us."
Following the success of controversial AFL agent Ricky Nixon's recruitment camps last August, Harte has suggested that the GAA establish academies to nurture rising young stars.
He explained: "We need to create a support mechanism to make it attractive for people to stay at home. Creating education-based academies of our own would give players a support mechanism and give them a lift in their career opportunities rather than taking a gamble."
And pray tell me Michael how exactly stopping the International Rules series will stop any of this?
Will these scouts just forget where Ireland is if we don't play the Australians every November?
Unfortunately I think that even if the GAA were to implement the nurturing academies for players solely in the Gaelic football code - it might even serve to make things worse.
There has never been a higher interest in young gaelic players from the AFL, and I believe it is all coming from the ever increasing standard of quality seen in young players. Where is this coming from? The current nationwide drive to improve youngsters with all sorts of development panels and squads - right the way up to minor level is my answer. Correct me if Im wrong, but I feel the fact is that all counties are producing better footballers/atheletes than in the past and many of them are devloping into youngsters with the stamina, build, and potential to star in the AFL.
No amount of increased training and/or success for underage players will guarantee that they wont leave for the lures of a professional contract in far away fields. There might be one or two, who a la Sean Cavanagh resist the urge - but on the whole, better young gaelic players will only make the pickings for the AFL all the better to chose from and trial. Like it has done in the last number of years.
The GAA cannot compete with the professional set up over there.
Take a star in the AFL - being asked to give up his time every night to present medals and awards? He wouldnt have to ask for 200 quid for the evenings work/time
Take a star in the GAA - they'd be run out of the country by some for having the cheek to ask!
I dont agree with GAA stars asking money - but when people start to complain about it and the lure of a professional set up is dangled like a carrot infront of some of our young players - its a bit rich to blame the few who decide to go.
micky hartes ongoing rant against the international rules is tiresome, at this stage how many players have said its one of the highlights of their careers (sean cavanagh put it on a par with an ai) and micky wants to take that away from them. does he want us all dancing at the crossroads while hes at it. why does he not moan about all the players lost to soccer? the gaa has to be competitive with all sports and get players to want to play not force them
Agree 100% with magickingdom.
Mickey is becoming tiresome on this point and as well is talking pure balderdash.
So we stop having anything to do with the AFL .....then what?
The AFL say " oh damn!! we cant sign up any more Irish GAA lads as their top brass dont talk to us any more"
Jasus Micky will you ever re engage your brain before you let your mouth off on this subject.
Only one thing will stop young lads trying to become Pros in Oz - i.e Football goes Professional and that WON'T be happening.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2008, 08:21:46 PM
Only one thing will stop young lads trying to become Pros in Oz - i.e Football goes Professional and that WON'T be happening.
Nail on head - young players want the chance to be professional athletes. Until such time as the GAA provide this players will continue to search professional opportunities in other codes. The amount of ex-Gaelic footballers, or lads simply for a GAA background that play professional rugby is interesting.
As a leading Irish sporting star said recently - the scouting is the only good thing to ever come out of the gaa, finally there is a bit of output for squandering massive amounts of tax payers money year on year, thank god the rugy and soccer are at least putting this tax payers money to use regardless of the begrudgers
Quote from: thehulk!! on December 09, 2008, 05:03:16 PM
As a leading Irish sporting star said recently - the scouting is the only good thing to ever come out of the gaa, finally there is a bit of output for squandering massive amounts of tax payers money year on year, thank god the rugy and soccer are at least putting this tax payers money to use regardless of the begrudgers
Rugby and Soccer put taxpayers money to use how? The infrastructure they've put in place?
If it were down to me not one of those west brit rugby lot would have set foot on Jones' Road.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2008, 08:21:46 PM
Mickey is becoming tiresome on this point and as well is talking pure balderdash.
So we stop having anything to do with the AFL .....then what?
The AFL say " oh damn!! we cant sign up any more Irish GAA lads as their top brass dont talk to us any more"
Jasus Micky will you ever re engage your brain before you let your mouth off on this subject.
He didn't actually say that, he said that by collaborating with the AFL on the International Rules the GAA lends legitimacy to Aussie Rules as something of a stablemate of Gaelic Games, as a kind of GAA after a fashion, and that if there were no liaisons between the GAA and the AFL at an official level at all, at least young GAA players would be left in no doubt that it's acually a game that's completely distinct from, and hostile to, Gaelic Games. Currently the lines are blurred, with the AFL representing a sort of
de facto professional Gaelic Games, which it most definitely isn't.
That's not to say that it would stem the tide, but could it really be any worse, since the AFL do just about whatever they want in relation to organising trials at the present time?
Maybe you should engage your brain before you open your ears ;)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 09, 2008, 11:15:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2008, 08:21:46 PM
Mickey is becoming tiresome on this point and as well is talking pure balderdash.
So we stop having anything to do with the AFL .....then what?
The AFL say " oh damn!! we cant sign up any more Irish GAA lads as their top brass dont talk to us any more"
Jasus Micky will you ever re engage your brain before you let your mouth off on this subject.
He didn't actually say that, he said that by collaborating with the AFL on the International Rules the GAA lends legitimacy to Aussie Rules as something of a stablemate of Gaelic Games, as a kind of GAA after a fashion, and that if there were no liaisons between the GAA and the AFL at an official level at all, at least young GAA players would be left in no doubt that it's acually a game that's completely distinct from, and hostile to, Gaelic Games. Currently the lines are blurred, with the AFL representing a sort of de facto professional Gaelic Games, which it most definitely isn't.
That's not to say that it would stem the tide, but could it really be any worse, since the AFL do just about whatever they want in relation to organising trials at the present time?
Maybe you should engage your brain before you open your ears ;)
Rubbish - the notion that relations with the AFL lend a legitimacy as something of a stablemate is utter bullshit, the notion that cutting off those relations would lead to young players being less inclined to try their hand at AFL is utter bullshit. The notion that the lines are currently blurred is utter bullshit.
You are correct in saying that cutting those ties would not stem the tide - but the tide has nothing to do with current relations between the GAA and the AFL. I can agree that the U-17 series was a shop window but in this day and age and with the financial clout of the AFL the Inter county minor tournament is the exact same, an International Feile of Gaelic Games would be the same thing also.
The cutting of the international rules series as it stands will have no impact on the ability or inclination of AFL clubs to scout for and poach the cream of the GAA crop, indeed only by continuing relations with the AFL are we in any position to have a modicum of control over it. If relations are cut it's open slather with regard to clubs and at what age they can approach players - at least the GAA can now ask the AFL to impose a limit on the age in International rookies.
It's all a side issue at the end of the day and people are missing the bigger picture - unless the GAA can offer younger players what they are really after the players will continue leave. And the GAA can never, im my opinion, offer young players the chance of being professional full time footballers.
I don't think you give the young AFL recruits enough credit there Fear.
I doubt very many of them are under any illusions about the difference between the two sports when they sign their contracts. They're not idiots, they can see the differences for themselves and in most cases get to experience the differences during their trial periods with AFL clubs. I would be quite confident that each of the young lads that have committed themselves to heading to Australia knew exactly what they were getting into, so your suggestion that some are confused and see the AFL as basically professional gaelic football does not hold any water for me.
I also don't know what you are getting at when you describe the AFL as hostile to the GAA. I'd say they are rather indifferent to us, if anything its within the GAA the the hostility exists (perhaps with good reason :-\).
Quote from: stephenite on December 09, 2008, 11:29:17 PM
Rubbish - the notion that relations with the AFL lend a legitimacy as something of a stablemate is utter bullshit, the notion that cutting off those relations would lead to young players being less inclined to try their hand at AFL is utter bullshit. The notion that the lines are currently blurred is utter bullshit.
It's only rubbish if you ascribe absolutely zero value to publicity, and if that be the case then there would be no one spending big, big money on advertisements at all. Is that what you're saying, that publicity has no value whatsoever?
And unless you are a 13/14/15-year-old gaa playing youngster now growing up in Ireland, I'm not sure how you can be so sure about the (lack of) impact of the very high profile
International Rules games on a younger psyche, and relatively impressionable minds.
Quote from: AFS on December 09, 2008, 11:35:10 PM
I don't think you give the young AFL recruits enough credit there Fear.
I doubt very many of them are under any illusions about the difference between the two sports when they sign their contracts. They're not idiots, they can see the differences for themselves and in most cases get to experience the differences during their trial periods with AFL clubs. I would be quite confident that each of the young lads that have committed themselves to heading to Australia knew exactly what they were getting into, so your suggestion that some are confused and see the AFL as basically professional gaelic football does not hold any water for me.
I also don't know what you are getting at when you describe the AFL as hostile to the GAA. I'd say they are rather indifferent to us, if anything its within the GAA the the hostility exists (perhaps with good reason :-\).
I'm not saying that it's something the young recruits would be conscious of
AFS, a lot of the imprints left would be of a subliminal nature, nothing that obvious, but firmly ensconced within the psyche nonetheless.
I'm talking about Aussie Rules as a hostile sport in respect of the GAA, not a particular hostility at a personal level.
I think you're clutching at straws there Fear with references to subtle subliminal messages. Again, in my opinion all the recruits have more than enough opportunities to test and, perhaps, alter their preconceptions before they actually commit themselves to a contract. I'd be very doubtful that any of them still harbour misconceptions, whether they were developed subliminally or otherwise, when they sign up.
I'm also surprised that you ascribe so much relevance to the publicity impact of the IR rules series. This may be a factor if the guys going off were doing so in order to gain some kind of elevated status or celebrity here in Ireland, but this is not the case. Most head off for the opportunity to experience a lifestyle as a professional sports man. I'd imagine a similar amount would still head off for the same opportunity even if everyone in Ireland was oblivious to the existence of the AFL.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 09, 2008, 11:38:16 PM
Quote from: stephenite on December 09, 2008, 11:29:17 PM
Rubbish - the notion that relations with the AFL lend a legitimacy as something of a stablemate is utter bullshit, the notion that cutting off those relations would lead to young players being less inclined to try their hand at AFL is utter bullshit. The notion that the lines are currently blurred is utter bullshit.
It's only rubbish if you ascribe absolutely zero value to publicity, and if that be the case then there would be no one spending big, big money on advertisements at all. Is that what you're saying, that publicity has no value whatsoever?
And unless you are a 13/14/15-year-old gaa playing youngster now growing up in Ireland, I'm not sure how you can be so sure about the (lack of) impact of the very high profile International Rules games on a younger psyche, and relatively impressionable minds.
So hang on, the publiclity of the International Rules series and high profile GAA players being involved in International Rules are the issue and one of the main reasons why young players are signing over to the AFL? That's a ludicrous notion, young players want to be professional athletes, whether or not the GAA continue the International Rules series has the sum total of f**k all to do with it, which is unfortunate for the likes of yourself and Mickey Harte as it blows any of the patently ludicrous arguments against it out of the water.
If I felt that the GAA cutting ties with the AFL would put a halt to the player drain I'd be all for it - it'll do nothing to stop it, the only thing that will is if we offer money to our players also.
Quote from: AFS on December 09, 2008, 11:35:10 PM
I don't think you give the young AFL recruits enough credit there Fear.
I doubt very many of them are under any illusions about the difference between the two sports when they sign their contracts. They're not idiots, they can see the differences for themselves and in most cases get to experience the differences during their trial periods with AFL clubs. I would be quite confident that each of the young lads that have committed themselves to heading to Australia knew exactly what they were getting into, so your suggestion that some are confused and see the AFL as basically professional gaelic football does not hold any water for me.
I also don't know what you are getting at when you describe the AFL as hostile to the GAA. I'd say they are rather indifferent to us, if anything its within the GAA the the hostility exists (perhaps with good reason :-\).
Most are young guys with dreams of stardom whether it's singing in the X-Factor or playing for that muenster rugby team, it's irrelevant to them. Maybe you havent hit puberty yet to realise this but when you're 17/18 and talented you think you can do anything and succeed.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 12:09:06 AM
So hang on, the publiclity of the International Rules series and high profile GAA players being involved in International Rules are the issue and one of the main reasons why young players are signing over to the AFL? That's a ludicrous notion, young players want to be professional athletes, whether or not the GAA continue the International Rules series has the sum total of f**k all to do with it, which is unfortunate for the likes of yourself and Mickey Harte as it blows any of the patently ludicrous arguments against it out of the water.
Just four words missing: "in
your humble opinion". Question: if it has "f**k all to do with it", how would the AFL register so strongly and so positively in younger minds if there were absolutely no contact between the GAA and the AFL? Something that may not even register at a conscious level, in those same minds. And whether you can accept it or not (and just because you don't believe it doesn't necessarily make it that it ain't true), for the young, to see the GAA and the AFL co-operate on the big stage, will represent something of a confraternity, and consequently a kindred sport.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 12:09:06 AM
If I felt that the GAA cutting ties with the AFL would put a halt to the player drain I'd be all for it - it'll do nothing to stop it, the only thing that will is if we offer money to our players also.
As I've conceded already, it
may make no difference, but one thing I can say with certainty now: it's not helping the GAA, and lose the hang-up with professionalism.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 09, 2008, 11:15:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2008, 08:21:46 PM
Mickey is becoming tiresome on this point and as well is talking pure balderdash.
So we stop having anything to do with the AFL .....then what?
The AFL say " oh damn!! we cant sign up any more Irish GAA lads as their top brass dont talk to us any more"
Jasus Micky will you ever re engage your brain before you let your mouth off on this subject.
He didn't actually say that, he said that by collaborating with the AFL on the International Rules the GAA lends legitimacy to Aussie Rules as something of a stablemate of Gaelic Games, as a kind of GAA after a fashion, and that if there were no liaisons between the GAA and the AFL at an official level at all, at least young GAA players would be left in no doubt that it's acually a game that's completely distinct from,
That's not to say that it would stem the tide, but could it really be any worse, since the AFL do just about whatever they want in relation to organising trials at the present time?
Maybe you should engage your brain before you open your ears ;)
Aussie Rules is and has been a legitimate activity since 1858 ( long before Football was discovered in Tyrone ;) :P)
Young GAA players are well aware that Rules is a separate sport from Gaelic Football and whether the GAA does or doesnt talk to the AFL has no effect in a Free Society on them organising trials.
I know some zealots think the GAA has Godlike qualities but it hasnt got to the stage where it can decree who does or doesnt come into Ireland so the AFL can indeed do whatever they like in organising trials.
As for Micky Harte - I see he was at it again the other day - he now wants a world series no less of Gaelic Football while he was also running down Sean Cavanagh's and the rest of the players pleasure and pride in representing their Country referring to it as the equivalent of Santa Claus.
Maybe we could ask the media to give us a few months break from Micky and his opinions. :-X
Oh for goodness sake, Setanta are showing their games, you can watch them on Youtube, TG4 carried the AFL magazine show for years, that's how it would register with them.
The opening up of Croke Park to the IRFU and the FAI would more likely have more effect on todays youngsters if you follow that logic, they have regular contact, granted they're not playing games against each other but where do subliminal messages seeping into the sub draw the line? There are former and very talented GAA players playing their code, but it's a completley ridiculous notion.
The only hang up I have with professionalism is that we cannot sustain it - but it's the only thing that's bringing these players over. You say it's currently not helping the GAA? I can guarantee you it'd be a hell of a worse without the AFL putting rules like rokie lists preventing a mass exodus.
The only thing that matters in this discussion is that young players want to be full time professional sportsmen - it really is as simple as that, these fellas don't give a shit about what contact the GAA have with the AFL - and any half baked notions you have about subliminal messages resulting out of current ties won't make one iota of difference ( and just because YOU believe it doesn't necessarily make it true)
Quote from: carribbear on December 10, 2008, 02:03:36 AM
Quote from: AFS on December 09, 2008, 11:35:10 PM
I don't think you give the young AFL recruits enough credit there Fear.
I doubt very many of them are under any illusions about the difference between the two sports when they sign their contracts. They're not idiots, they can see the differences for themselves and in most cases get to experience the differences during their trial periods with AFL clubs. I would be quite confident that each of the young lads that have committed themselves to heading to Australia knew exactly what they were getting into, so your suggestion that some are confused and see the AFL as basically professional gaelic football does not hold any water for me.
I also don't know what you are getting at when you describe the AFL as hostile to the GAA. I'd say they are rather indifferent to us, if anything its within the GAA the the hostility exists (perhaps with good reason :-\).
Most are young guys with dreams of stardom whether it's singing in the X-Factor or playing for that muenster rugby team, it's irrelevant to them. Maybe you havent hit puberty yet to realise this but when you're 17/18 and talented you think you can do anything and succeed.
Whats irrelevant to them? What are you on about? This post makes absolutely no sense.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
Oh for goodness sake, Setanta are showing their games, you can watch them on Youtube, TG4 carried the AFL magazine show for years, that's how it would register with them.
Chicken and egg, and Setanta are not the egg. My point still stands, the GAA's association with AFL gives them a much higher profile (which is why Setanta and others will want to showcase the AFL), otherwise, by your logic, there'd be more of them attempting to sign up for American Football, since its coverage was so much more in your face than AFL for so long. Difference is/was, the GAA had no high profile agreement with them.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
The opening up of Croke Park to the IRFU and the FAI would more likely have more effect on todays youngsters if you follow that logic, they have regular contact, granted they're not playing games against each other but where do subliminal messages seeping into the sub draw the line? There are former and very talented GAA players playing their code, but it's a completley ridiculous notion.
No comparison, business relationship only, absolutely no blurring of sporting lines, though there might well be one or two who would be swayed. Plus, it's a temporary arrangement, not something where both parties are intent on promoting and developing the alliance.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
The only hang up I have with professionalism is that we cannot sustain it - but it's the only thing that's bringing these players over. You say it's currently not helping the GAA? I can guarantee you it'd be a hell of a worse without the AFL putting rules like rokie lists preventing a mass exodus.
The rookie lists are not for our benefit, a fortunate side-effect perhaps.
Quote from: stephenite on December 10, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
The only thing that matters in this discussion is that young players want to be full time professional sportsmen - it really is as simple as that, these fellas don't give a shit about what contact the GAA have with the AFL - and any half baked notions you have about subliminal messages resulting out of current ties won't make one iota of difference ( and just because YOU believe it doesn't necessarily make it true)
Most young players, not all young players (Seán Cavanagh, for example, rejected that opportunity). The hard reality is that AFL represents a more familiar route to professionalism for young GAA players than any other sporting code, and it is not a fairy tale for all of them, far from it.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 10, 2008, 12:30:25 PM
Chicken and egg, and Setanta are not the egg. My point still stands,
No, it doesn't.
Quote
The rookie lists are not for our benefit, a fortunate side-effect perhaps.
Cutting ties with the AFL will remove recently approved restrictions on the age that clubs here can sign younger players, the problem will get worse - more young players will be lost, rookie lists are already being pushed to be extended by clubs
Quote
No comparison, business relationship only, absolutely no blurring of sporting lines, though there might well be one or two who would be swayed. Plus, it's a temporary arrangement, not something where both parties are intent on promoting and developing the alliance.
I agree there's no comparison, but if you're going start introducing utter rubbish like subliminal messages, stemming from the current ties being one of the main reasons why young players are more inclined to become pro AFL players than I am challenging you to explain exactly where those subliminal messages draw the line? If a young kid is more inclined towards AFL because of subliminal messages seeping into his subconscious when he sees the International Rules series, how is another young kid not affected by subliminal messages after seeing his County play in an All Ireland final in September and his country playing in the same stadium against the All Blacks a month or two later? You're either an expert on subliminal messages, in which case I'd appreciate it explained to me or you're deliberately introducing obtuse arguments to muddy the waters against attacks on the opinions of Mickey Harte
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Most young players, not all young players (Seán Cavanagh, for example, rejected that opportunity). The hard reality is that AFL represents a more familiar route to professionalism for young GAA players than any other sporting code, and it is not a fairy tale for all of them, far from it.
I have to question that - if you were to take the last 20 years and find out how many current or recently retired professional sportsmen played GAA up to say u-16, and see how many are in the AFL, how many are playing professional soccer and how many are pro rugby players I'd be surprised if the AFL was not last on that list.
A wee tale for you both, got talking to a young lad a few weeks back in the pub, turns out he is 17. His dad used to play football against my brothers back in the day.
He is supposed to be talented, has played minor for his county I think but he was telling me about his plans to go to Sydney to get a trial with the Swans. Obviously he's not short of confidence but certainly short on height and size. All the same, he has it in his head that he's going to make a career out of it (then ordering triple jack daniels at the bar) but I think you can see that the fact theres an outlet for talented GAA youngsters they are getting the notion they can be the next Tadgh Kennelly and become stars.
I'd get notions of being the next Tadhg Kennelly if I was drinking triple Jack Daniels (and I'd have a few years on Tadhg) , never mind someone underage.
There is an outlet for youngsters - I don't think anyone is denying that, all I am arguing is that the outlet will still exist regardless of whether or not the International Rules series is scrapped and that it is my opinon that the outlet will only increase if ties between the two governing bodies were cut.
There are a huge numner of outlets through which we can lose players, soccer is one of the biggest threat but sadly the drink is another.
I told the lad that he won't be playing much ball in the future if he continued down the triple jack road....already very grown up for a 17 year old!
Quote from: stephenite on December 11, 2008, 01:49:33 AM
I agree there's no comparison, but if you're going start introducing utter rubbish like subliminal messages,stemming from the current ties being one of the main reasons why young players are more inclined to become pro AFL players than I am challenging you to explain exactly where those subliminal messages draw the line? If a young kid is more inclined towards AFL because of subliminal messages seeping into his subconscious when he sees the International Rules series, how is another young kid not affected by subliminal messages after seeing his County play in an All Ireland final in September and his country playing in the same stadium against the All Blacks a month or two later? You're either an expert on subliminal messages, in which case I'd appreciate it explained to me or you're deliberately introducing obtuse arguments to muddy the waters against attacks on the opinions of Mickey Harte
Simple really, the GAA and the AFL collaborate in an official
sporting capacity, they bastardise each other's games to produce a high profile international dimension, which emphasises the superficial and specious similarities in their respective codes. And we're talking here about GAA players, who will be naturally inclined to pick up on perceived overlaps in the respective sports, as there will not exist a
natural inclination to be attracted towards obviously different sports like rugby or soccer. We're
encouraged to see a harmony between AFL and GAA (by both organisations), that's what sells the tickets for the 'International Rules', and if wizened old cynics can still see enough of a tie-in between the two, how much more will it penetrate the more permeable young mind?
Additionally, rugby and soccer in Croke park is an interim arrangement, not something that is going to be fostered and developed, so his country won't be seen playing the All-Blacks in the same stadium, for much longer.
And Mickey Harte doesn't need anyone to defend his corner for him, not what I'm about.
Quote from: stephenite on December 11, 2008, 01:49:33 AM
I have to question that - if you were to take the last 20 years and find out how many current or recently retired professional sportsmen played GAA up to say u-16, and see how many are in the AFL, how many are playing professional soccer and how many are pro rugby players I'd be surprised if the AFL was not last on that list.
Well, given that AFL recruits have to, literally, travel to the other side of the planet, as opposed to down the road or across the Irish Sea, that would hardly be surprising, would it? So, I'd be surprised too if the AFL weren't last, but also amazed that there have been so many.
Edit:I'm not being facetious here, but since you've been so scathing about subliminal factors, if it wasn't something subliminal that has done Mayo down so catastrophically in the All-Ireland finals against Kerry in '04 and '06, then what was it?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 11, 2008, 09:45:34 AM
Quote from: stephenite on December 11, 2008, 01:49:33 AM
I agree there's no comparison, but if you're going start introducing utter rubbish like subliminal messages,stemming from the current ties being one of the main reasons why young players are more inclined to become pro AFL players than I am challenging you to explain exactly where those subliminal messages draw the line? If a young kid is more inclined towards AFL because of subliminal messages seeping into his subconscious when he sees the International Rules series, how is another young kid not affected by subliminal messages after seeing his County play in an All Ireland final in September and his country playing in the same stadium against the All Blacks a month or two later? You're either an expert on subliminal messages, in which case I'd appreciate it explained to me or you're deliberately introducing obtuse arguments to muddy the waters against attacks on the opinions of Mickey Harte
Simple really, the GAA and the AFL collaborate in an official sporting capacity, they bastardise each other's games to produce a high profile international dimension, which emphasises the superficial and specious similarities in their respective codes. And we're talking here about GAA players, who will be naturally inclined to pick up on perceived overlaps in the respective sports, as there will not exist a natural inclination to be attracted towards obviously different sports like rugby or soccer. We're encouraged to see a harmony between AFL and GAA (by both organisations), that's what sells the tickets for the 'International Rules', and if wizened old cynics can still see enough of a tie-in between the two, how much more will it penetrate the more permeable young mind?
Additionally, rugby and soccer in Croke park is an interim arrangement, not something that is going to be fostered and developed, so his country won't be seen playing the All-Blacks in the same stadium, for much longer.
And Mickey Harte doesn't need anyone to defend his corner for him, not what I'm about.
Quote from: stephenite on December 11, 2008, 01:49:33 AM
I have to question that - if you were to take the last 20 years and find out how many current or recently retired professional sportsmen played GAA up to say u-16, and see how many are in the AFL, how many are playing professional soccer and how many are pro rugby players I'd be surprised if the AFL was not last on that list.
Well, given that AFL recruits have to, literally, travel to the other side of the planet, as opposed to down the road or across the Irish Sea, that would hardly be surprising, would it? So, I'd be surprised too if the AFL weren't last, but also amazed that there have been so many.
Edit:
I'm not being facetious here, but since you've been so scathing about subliminal factors, if it wasn't something subliminal that has done Mayo down so catastrophically in the All-Ireland finals against Kerry in '04 and '06, then what was it?
Thats the thing, there really isn't that many. There's only 11 at present, and of that 11 I wouldn't be at all surprised if 4 or 5 of them return in the next 2 or 3 years. Over the last 25 years of the International Rules series the GAA has lost about 5 or 6 players (if that many) permanently to Australia. There have been very few Tadhg Kennellys or Jim Stynes.
Eleven?...
Colm Begley (Laois)
Conor Meredith (Laois)
Zac Tuohy (Laois)
Pearce Hanley (Mayo)
Nicholas Walsh (Cavan, injured)
Setanta O'hAilpin (Cork)
Aisake O'hAilpin (Cork)
Martin Clarke (Down)
Kevin Dyas (Armagh)
Tadhg Kennelly (Kerry)
Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
Kyle Coney (Tyrone)
Brian Donnelly (Louth)
Michael Quinn (Longford)
Christopher Mc Kaigue (Derry)
James Kielt (Derry)
Niall McKeever (Antrim)
Some ofthoe fellas you've named near the bottom only went for trials and came home
Quote from: County Player on December 11, 2008, 04:15:26 PM
Some ofthoe fellas you've named near the bottom only went for trials and came home
OK, wasn't 100% sure, which ones?
Colm Begley (Laois) - Still there with St. Kilda (former Brisbane Lion)
Conor Meredith (Laois) - New this year with Kangaroos
Zac Tuohy (Laois) - trail ?, but gone home
Pearce Hanley (Mayo) - Still there with Brisbane Lions
Nicholas Walsh (Cavan, injured) - Home long time, was with Melbourne Demons
Setanta O'hAilpin (Cork) - Still there with Carlton
Aisake O'hAilpin (Cork) - Got dropped from Carlton, no club at present
Martin Clarke (Down) - Still there with Collingwood
Kevin Dyas (Armagh) - Still there with Collingwood
Tadhg Kennelly (Kerry) - Still there with Sydney Swans
Brendan Murphy (Carlow) - Still there with Sydney Swans
Kyle Coney (Tyrone) - New this year with Sydney Swans
Brian Donnelly (Louth) - New this year with Adelaide Crows
Michael Quinn (Longford) New this year with Essendon
Christopher Mc Kaigue (Derry) - trail, but gone home
James Kielt (Derry) - trail, but gone home
Niall McKeever (Antrim) - trail, but gone home
Michael Sheilds (Cork) - Got homesick and left Carlton
Sláinte ybbi.
I would still count Nicholas Walsh, however, since he was lost to Gaelic Games by the AFL, and could conceivably still be playing football for Cavan were it not for the AFL.
Fear, I think you've just proven this point that I made a couple of weeks back.
Quote from: AFS on December 03, 2008, 05:25:42 PM
I thought it was more than 11 :-\
There seems to be a lot of talk about a lot of players but then they never actually head - guys like Walsh, Moran, Kielt, McComiskey. Maybe all this speculation tricks a lot of people into thinking the problem is greater than it actually is.
True AFS, but it's still some of the very best players the association has, and for that it can only be the worse off, and by much more than just the raw number of individuals involved.
And, I prefer to look at it as 1 in every 3 counties has lost a top player ;)
Tuohy joins exodusQuoteCARLTON HAVE swooped again to attract one of the the brightest GAA talents, signing Laois's Zach Tuohy on a two-year contract.
The versatile Portlaoise clubman will join Ciarán Sheehan from Cork at a four-week training camp with the Melbourne-based outfit in the middle of July as the club aims to fast-track the duo's Aussie Rules education ahead of pre-season training in November.
The 20-year-old Tuohy is the fourth Laois player to have taken the plunge in Australia, with Colm Begley, Brendan Quigley and Conor Meredith the others, though Quigley has since returned.
Re Nicholas Walsh, He is still playing for Cavan, was injured last year,but came on in the qualifiers against Kildare and made a big difference at Midfield
I believe(and i might be corrected) that Nicko's problem when he was over with Melbourne was that he packed on too much muscle with all the gym work too quickly, and as a result when the hard running/conditioning aspect of training took centre stage, He got injuries as his legs werent fit to take the increased weight.
Hes still a beast of a man.
https://twitter.com/fotoole13/status/1573571339516010496?s=46&t=4Up3jZkmVOuvKB2mxNEz7w
Quote from: laoislad on September 24, 2022, 08:50:47 AM
https://twitter.com/fotoole13/status/1573571339516010496?s=46&t=4Up3jZkmVOuvKB2mxNEz7w
Great to see a few more Irish winners. Swans were awful one way traffic all the way through.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdQMfueXoAIqRJQ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/24/09/62754737-0-Tuohy_held_up_a_flag_in_the_colours_of_Portaloise_the_Irish_town-a-4_1664008551685.jpg)
Tommy Walsh only played 5 games in Australia??
Whatever happened to the o hailpin 's? Are they back in Ireland or what?
Quote from: laoislad on September 24, 2022, 03:47:46 PM
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/24/09/62754737-0-Tuohy_held_up_a_flag_in_the_colours_of_Portaloise_the_Irish_town-a-4_1664008551685.jpg)
Class
Clubs referring to themselves as "the town". How unimaginative is that?
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 24, 2022, 10:53:50 PM
Clubs referring to themselves as "the town". How unimaginative is that?
Nothing to do with imagination - it's tradition.
C'mon the Town has been the catchcry of Zach's home club, Portlaoise, for decades (as indeed it has been for other towns, e.g. Athlone Town FC in soccer).
Congratulation to Zach - he did his town proud.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on September 25, 2022, 12:33:35 AM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 24, 2022, 10:53:50 PM
Clubs referring to themselves as "the town". How unimaginative is that?
Nothing to do with imagination - it's tradition.
C'mon the Town has been the catchcry of Zach's home club, Portlaoise, for decades (as indeed it has been for other towns, e.g. Athlone Town FC in soccer).
Congratulation to Zach - he did his town proud.
Hundreds of GAA clubs are towns.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on September 25, 2022, 12:33:35 AM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 24, 2022, 10:53:50 PM
Clubs referring to themselves as "the town". How unimaginative is that?
Nothing to do with imagination - it's tradition.
C'mon the Town has been the catchcry of Zach's home club, Portlaoise, for decades (as indeed it has been for other towns, e.g. Athlone Town FC in soccer).
Congratulation to Zach - he did his town proud.
His country!
He's awesome.
Up there with Rory, Shane and Katie now 😁
But Aussie Rules is a poor enough watch. I watch a lot of sports, and I'd prefer NFL, cricket, baseball, F1 to Aussie rules
A repeat recruit....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41001533.html
Oisin Mullin linked with the AFL again .
https://t.co/Dxe5lC38xX
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 11, 2022, 07:30:48 PM
Oisin Mullin linked with the AFL again .
https://t.co/Dxe5lC38xX
Confirmed this evening. Geelong category B rookie for 2023 season.
Some loss for Mayo. All the best to him!
Good luck to him, hopefully when he does return he will still be able to play county football.
While no one player will win an All-Ireland, his loss to Mayo is huge.
We don't have the depth of talent of a Kerry, Dublin, here his loss would be less significant.
Conor mckenna going well down under again it seems
Longford lad Matt Duffy said to be signed up for Carlton.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41208886.html
Ballincollig and Cork U20 footballer Liam O'Connell has signed an AFL contract with St Kilda and will make the move over to Australia in the next fortnight.
Last week Carlton signed Kerry's Rob Monaghan and Longford's Matthew Duffy on two-year international rookie contracts.
The latest potential AFL recruits are Cork's Conor Corbett, Galway's James McLoughlin, Down's Odhran Murdock and Tyrone's Eoin McElholm all will spend two weeks Down Under and are expected to visit a number of clubs who could have an interest in signing them professionally.
The quartet have been involved in ongoing trials and a network in Ireland established by the AFL for potential recruits. In recent weeks, Longford's Matthew Duffy and Kerry's Rob Monaghan have been signed by Carlton, while Cork's Liam O'Connell has joined St Kilda. That trio had been observed by clubs at recent trials in Dublin.
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 06, 2023, 11:28:49 PM
The latest potential AFL recruits are Cork's Conor Corbett, Galway's James McLoughlin, Down's Odhran Murdock and Tyrone's Eoin McElholm all will spend two weeks Down Under and are expected to visit a number of clubs who could have an interest in signing them professionally.
The quartet have been involved in ongoing trials and a network in Ireland established by the AFL for potential recruits. In recent weeks, Longford's Matthew Duffy and Kerry's Rob Monaghan have been signed by Carlton, while Cork's Liam O'Connell has joined St Kilda. That trio had been observed by clubs at recent trials in Dublin.
Corbett is probably the best minor I've seen since Clifford, McLaughlin not far behind him but both have suffered so many injuries since 2019.
Murdoch would be a huge loss for Down if he went. They badly lack that type of big physical athlete around midfield and he looked a good prospect. But it is hard to blame any lad for going out to give it a try. What sort of money would a rookie and full time professional earn out there?
Read somewhere average AFL salary is around Aus$400k c €240k.
A few got up to a Million$ so...
Rookies prob get around €20k average I'd suspect.
Derry still waiting on C Brown coming home, no luck for another further 2 yrs if ever.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 05:20:07 PM
Read somewhere average AFL salary is around Aus$400k c €240k.
A few got up to a Million$ so...
Rookies prob get around €20k average I'd suspect.
The international rookie minimum is at least €50k per year plus there are a fair few perks/allowances guaranteed as well.
It means even the lads who go for two years on rookie contracts can come back with a nice chunk of change especially for lads around 18/19/20.
Heard before that Tuohy was definitely a Euro millionaire and that Mark O'Connor will likely end up one if he signs another contract.
Salaries in the women's game were doubled last year or the year before so while it's nowhere near to what the men can make - it's not a bad earner for a few month's work.
The minimum salary in the women's game works out about €24k per season which when you consider the length of their season (about 4 months including pre-season) is not too shabby.
There's going to be no change in the flow of lads or lasses willing to get it a go any time soon.
Quote from: twohands!!! on September 08, 2023, 08:57:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 05:20:07 PM
Read somewhere average AFL salary is around Aus$400k c €240k.
A few got up to a Million$ so...
Rookies prob get around €20k average I'd suspect.
The international rookie minimum is at least €50k per year plus there are a fair few perks/allowances guaranteed as well.
It means even the lads who go for two years on rookie contracts can come back with a nice chunk of change especially for lads around 18/19/20.
Heard before that Tuohy was definitely a Euro millionaire and that Mark O'Connor will likely end up one if he signs another contract.
Salaries in the women's game were doubled last year or the year before so while it's nowhere near to what the men can make - it's not a bad earner for a few month's work.
The minimum salary in the women's game works out about €24k per season which when you consider the length of their season (about 4 months including pre-season) is not too shabby.
There's going to be no change in the flow of lads or lasses willing to get it a go any time soon.
Conor Nash has moved onto another level with Hawthorn this year as well, He has been one of their best players albeit in a transitioning team.
Conor McKenna signed a new two year deal. Mckenna deal (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/66861711)
Good performance there today by McKenna in the second quarter. Don't know enough about the sport but it looks like he's a key player in that team?
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2023, 12:13:49 PMGood performance there today by McKenna in the second quarter. Don't know enough about the sport but it looks like he's a key player in that team?
Heard today that there are over 40 Irish players, make and female, in Australia on contracts at the moment. You can hardly blame them but that's a huge number of players
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2023, 12:13:49 PMGood performance there today by McKenna in the second quarter. Don't know enough about the sport but it looks like he's a key player in that team?
Absolutely he's key in that team - he's so easy on the eye with the oval ball in hand. Looks more natural than most of the Aussies. Has had a stellar year. So has Callum Brown, but he'll have nightmares over the loss to Collingwood
Quote from: ck on September 24, 2023, 09:49:05 PMQuote from: ONeill on September 23, 2023, 12:13:49 PMGood performance there today by McKenna in the second quarter. Don't know enough about the sport but it looks like he's a key player in that team?
Heard today that there are over 40 Irish players, make and female, in Australia on contracts at the moment. You can hardly blame them but that's a huge number of players
Is there not considerably more women than men though? I would imagine that's minimum 60-40 skewed towards the women.
McKenna obviously a good one. I think Tyrone are maybe finding out how instrumental he was to their AI win when he was on form.
Examiner had an article a week or two back saying either 31 or 33 Irish women were playing in the women's league this year meaning 6% of the entire women's league is Irish.
Also saw a headline recently (think that might have been the Examiner as well) that the minimum wage for women was going to double/increase significantly next year or the year after making it an even more attractive for Irish women. Although it will make it more attractive for the local women as well.
Quote from: ck on September 24, 2023, 09:49:05 PMQuote from: ONeill on September 23, 2023, 12:13:49 PMGood performance there today by McKenna in the second quarter. Don't know enough about the sport but it looks like he's a key player in that team?
Heard today that there are over 40 Irish players, make and female, in Australia on contracts at the moment. You can hardly blame them but that's a huge number of players
Hardly huge compared to how many play gaelic games male and female.
The womens seasons don't overlap either so they can do both.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2023, 10:35:52 AMThe womens seasons don't overlap either so they can do both.
They changed the AFLW season - clubs start pre-season training at the end of May.
The season starts the week the AFL has their pre-finals bye, first weekend of September with the grand final on 3 December this year, so some players may become available in early November if they don't make finals.
Karl Gallagher from Monaghan invited to pre season training with Adelaide.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:31:29 AMKarl Gallagher from Monaghan invited to pre season training with Adelaide.
Will be a big miss for Vinny Corey & Monaghan if he is offered a contract.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monaghan-blow-as-star-karl-gallaghers-two-year-afl-deal-with-the-adelaide-crows-is-confirmed/
Gallagher signs a two year rookie contract. A loss for Monaghan.
Carlton recruiters around the place at the moment.
Normally it's later in the year when they come over but Carlton are hoping to gain an advantage on the opposition by travelling now. Sound very committed to recruiting more Irish players.
The Category B international rookies aren't counted as part of the salary cap (clubs have a limit on what they can spend on salaries) and also don't count towards the number of players a club can have on their books so are less of a risk compared to other rookie signings.
Also the fact that they are willing to move Monahan from Kerry to Category A make room in their Category B space means they view his chances of making is as very positively given he's only been over there 6 months at his stage.
https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/news-2024-carlton-blues-executives-travel-to-ireland-attempt-to-recruit-talent-for-academy/fee43fbc-e776-4a2a-b492-456001233115
"And as much as the academy is a multi-pronged strategy to strengthen the men's and women's playing lists, Ireland is by far the most bold component of the plan."
"Carlton's view is Ireland is a largely untapped market, full of incredible athletes and highly competitive performers. "